This is not The Haters Club You're Looking For discussion

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I hate our government, but I love my country!

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message 1: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Cafaro (stephencafaro) Our government representatives refuse to acknowledge the needs and general welfare of the American people. It is quite apparent that our government officials prefer the deep pockets of the lobbyists, special interests and the multi-national corporations.

The end result has been a proliferation of laws that favor the rich and demean eveyone else. These laws give immense tax breaks to the wealthy, while simultaneouly building the national deficit to 9 trillion dollars. These laws legitimize NAFTA, GATT, and a host of so called "free trade" agreements while raping America of the jobs, factories and industriies that had made America an economic super power. These laws result in trickle down economic concepts that suggest the crumbs that fall from the banquet table of the elite are sufficient payment to the American workers who have built our country. These laws have resulted in the dot com fiasco, the housing crisis, the mortgage debacle, and the financial mess we are in today. And while you and I are forced to shoulder this major screwup, the government is rewarding the financial firms who engineered the mess with grants of hundrews of billions of dollars.

Are we being screwed so well that we now enjoy it? Or are we just stupid? Or perhaps we just don't care!

It is critical that we wake up soon, and take our country back from those who refuse to represent our general welfare. We need to get up off our dead asses, start a revolution and restore Democracy to a living, breathing dynamic, rather than the political spin word it has become.

For these and many other reasons, I hate my government, but I love my country!


message 2: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Cafaro (stephencafaro) Does anyone care?


message 3: by Sally (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 0 comments Donna,

Please, if you will, more of the same all weekend long. I will be here, in the front row, with a big bucket of juju bees, hating your wit.


message 4: by Sally (last edited Apr 18, 2008 06:07PM) (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 0 comments Heh heh,

Jujubees are the only good fast food.

Wait, what?


message 5: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Cafaro (stephencafaro) Money does appear out of thin air if you are on the preferred list in America today--ie. bankgrupt financial firms, ailing multi-national corporations, select lobbyists, favored special interests. With the government so willing to give hundrews of billions away to the priveledged elite, I say every American should go to that well and demand their fair share of the freebies. If enough of us do that, perhaps the "moral Hazard" will cause the madness to stop.


message 6: by Sally (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 0 comments Bah. I am the people and I am not allowing my government to do anything. I never called up G Dub and said, hey man, free rein, go ahead and rack up trilions of dollars of debt to China and Saudi Arabia. I don't mind. Spend another 23 gadjillion on a new fighter plane.

I refuse to believe for one second that the tax on a pack of smokes (something like 100 percent of the cost of the lil suckers) is going to pay for some homeless man's meal, much less for the war.
That can of green beans was bought and paid for by a whole different system. One that, if the tax-free elite had their way, would not exist at all.

Taxes should be paid by the citizens who care about the quality of life of their fellow countrymen. The point is to make life better for everybody, not just "funding for the people who refuse to provide for themselves". What about the baby boomers, who faithfully paid Social Security taxes their entire working lives, and now DO NOT have that money to live on in their old age because someone is off spending.

What people allowed the government to do this, I honestly want to know?


message 7: by Adriana (new)

Adriana Hey, I'm new to this site and this discussion group. I did not hate the topic, which sums up my feelings, too. Stephen is right and Sally rocks. The government should exercise the collective will of the people for the good of the people and right now, it represents very few of us. We've spent trillions in Iraq and accomplished nothing. The economic stimulus package we're supposed to salivate over cost $150 billion, a fraction of what we've wasted overseas. Now, I'm going to watch and hope not to see a new discussion thread: I hate new people.


message 8: by Sally (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 0 comments Thank you Donna and new Adriana, for chiming in. I just hate the rhetoric of "get a job and stop asking for handouts" more than anything.
There are serious, sick, wrongs being perpetrated by our government, and there is nobody to blame but the good ol boys club.


message 9: by Sally (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 0 comments Seriously, people, sharing is kind.


message 10: by Lisa (last edited Apr 20, 2008 11:39AM) (new)

Lisa I've spent much of my adult life working in private non-profits with kids and families. Here are some of the people who "refuse to take responsibility for themselves and their children" and are therefore mooching that welfare, free health insurance, free daycare, and possibly the methadone clinic:

A woman with an IQ of around 70 who works in a flower shop part-time, and is trying to get through the paperwork for a restraining order against her ex-husband (what kind of guy marries a woman with a developmental disability?) who didn't stay long in jail for beating the crap out of her and burning her with cigarettes in front of the two-year-old. She gets $427 a month plus health care for her and the kiddo.

A woman whose own mother introduced her to methamphetamine when she was 13 years old. She's been clean now for nine months. So the relative who's been caring for her 12-year-old daughter with schizophrenia has decided to give the 12-year-old back now. The first night, the daughter ran. The next day, she attacked mom, then threatened suicide. Nonetheless, this woman's looking for a job (she actually seems pretty together right now).

A woman whose husband of seven years is currently in prison for sexual abuse of her daughter (starting when she was about four). She has epilepsy that isn't currently well-controlled by medication (uh oh, there's that free health care again), and has been through a series of minor head injuries from falls when she has seizures. Her daughter's placed out of the home right now because after disclosing the abuse, she started harming herself and being violent toward mom and brother, as well as a host of other things like hoarding food and compulsive stealing.

Damn it, don't you wish these people would get a frickin' job and stop whining? Sheesh.

(These stories are mostly true, with some details altered to maintain confidentiality)


Jackie "the Librarian" Sometimes, people need a little help. We don't all start with the same advantages. For example, at least half of prison inmates are illiterate. It's hard to get a decent job when you can't read or fill out a job application.
From the website "Illiteracy in America":

There is a high degree of illiteracy among prison inmates, which often results in recidivism and the inability of parolees to move into the mainstream. In the Department of Justice manual, “Making Literacy Programs Work: A Practical Guide for Correctional Educators,” it is stated that one-half of all adults in federal and state correctional institutions cannot read or write at all. Only about one-third of those in prison have completed high school. The typical 25-ear old male inmate functions 2-3 grade levels below the grade actually completed. To improve these skills means tutoring of at least 100 hours per increase in grade level.


The causes for high levels of illiteracy are typically intergenerational. If the parents are incapable of reading or writing with any degree of proficiency, then they are also unable to assist in their children’s education. “An adult non-reader may have left school early, may have had a physical or emotional disability, may have had ineffectual teachers or simply may have been unready to learn at the time reading instruction began.” (“The Three Kinds of Illiteracy,” Ronald Nash, Ph.D., 1999).


If, by spending some tax money on education and literacy training, we can get prisoners out of prison and into jobs, they can become tax-paying citizens themselves, instead of being a burden on taxpayers.
It's practical, and it's kind.


message 12: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Awesome info, Jackie. Are you a teacher? Or in public policy or something?


Jackie "the Librarian" Librarian. Thanks!


Jackie "the Librarian" I'd rather talk about a solution than trying to pin blame somewhere.


message 15: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Well, I've voted in every single election, local and national, since I turned 18 (and that's been a lot of elections). I obsessively register to vote, just in case I didn't do so since I last moved. I encourage other people to vote. I stay aware of the issues, read as many perspectives as I can, and have been known to contact my elected officials on issues that I particularly care about.

Oh wait...I just learned how to do restraints and transports with children who are a danger to themselves or others! Perhaps I can drag people to the polling place that way...oh crap. Not in Oregon, it's vote-by-mail. Never mind.


message 16: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Cafaro (stephencafaro) Why are we so quick to blame one another for the financial ills of our country. I believe the vast majority of Americans are willing to work for a living. Unfortunately, too many of us are not able to make a living because we are not paid a living wage. By living wage, I mean a person is able to have a family, feed them, provide adequate shelter and have acess to reasonable health care. These things are just the basics, but many of us have to work 2 or 3 jobs to provide for these basics. The era of the one job househod has disappeared in the smoke of a declining standard of living and ever increasing inflation.

Yet, America is one of the wealtiest nations in the history of mankind. We, more than any country on this earth, should be able to provide for all our citizens. I'm not talking about give-a-ways for the people, but simply an opportunity to make a sufficient level of income. As a country, we do not hesitate to spend close to a trillion dollars to bail out our financial firms; nor do we hesitate to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to advance a questionable war; nor do we concern ourselves as our govenment permits the exodus of jobs, factories and industries to foreign countries under the banner of free trade; nor are we shaken by the fact that we annually import close to 800 billion dollars of goods and services, most of which we should provide for ourselves; nor are we angered by a 9 trillion dollar national debt which threatens the economic viability of our country. And even with all this, too many of us still wish to point the finger of guilt at one another!! We, the people, are not the culprits!

We need to wake up and demand representatve government from our leaders before it is too late. As a country, we are painfully close to reaching a point of no return. I have written a book on the subject titled "The Road to the Third World". It is a novel about the political, economic and social consequences of the excesses of capitalism. I encourage anyone who is concerned about their future and the future of their children to read the book--and then--get busy with the task of taking our country back!


message 17: by Carlie (new)

Carlie I don't vote. I still hate this government. No way am I voting for the lesser of 2 evils. Democrat or republican, we still get screwed. If someone believable came forward and had a record of doing public good, u bet I'd get off my arse and vote for them. Until then, I'll stay here complain and still not vote. I hate evil period and I refuse to vote for money launderers.

Blue state or red state, the people still get screwed.


message 18: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill Both Houses of Congress to be convicted for criminal assholism and summarily executed. Replace with the first bunch of yokels that can be rounded up and term limit the bastids. Problem solved.


message 19: by Carlie (new)

Carlie People who talk about solutions become political prisoners. Best to keep quiet.


message 20: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill Ah...thanks for the clue-in Donna. Disaffectey...yeah, and then some.


message 21: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill heh, that would make sense.

"disaffectey"? ha ha ha


message 22: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Cafaro (stephencafaro) Judging by the comments of some, it is obvious why we have the social, political and economic problems that are so pervasive. Bla, bla , bla is a connotation that too many of our unscrupulous leaders depend on. It is the language of apathy and complacency. It is the verbage of hopelessness. As more of us become drawn to brushing off lifes concerns with the bla babble, we can be assured that things will only get worse. It's time to wake up, assess our situation in the world and begin to do something about it. We must wake up soon!


message 23: by Carlie (new)

Carlie and even then you may not affect any changes.


message 24: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill Hating the govt isn't a bad position to work from though it may be an overstatement. I'm immediately skeptical of anything the govt does - not from a conspiritorial perspective but from the observation that govt does almost nothing even remotely well. The problem isn't apathy so much as we've bought into the notion that govt. is then end all solution to everything - that's where we get whimpy arguments for things like a "living wage".


message 25: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill Yep...I stopped bitchin' about govt. Now, I bitch at em! I find that most do actually pay attention for whatever reasons, so it's not like you're always shouting into the void. I get regular updates on the voting record of my congress critter rep...or in her case her non-involvement record. Rip em a new one folks...that's why they're there!


message 26: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill Absofrikkinlutely! In fact, I just got a reply from said critter rep to a letter I sent last month where I pretty much raked her over the coals for being a no show to some important votes which. She attempted an explanation and took the opportunity to explain her positions in more detail (had she been there to vote) and that's appreciated even if I'm not letting her out of the pinata.


message 27: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill Nope...simply it was "unavoidably detained" Prolly had to run over to Elevations to get another kobe beef burger.


message 28: by Lisa (new)

Lisa While for the most part, I agree that the government has a hard time doing things well, a) I think that's our particular government, not all governments. I'd happily pay 50% of my income in taxes if we got the kind of socialist government some of the nordic countries have (and considering that in that kind of system I wouldn't have massive student loans to pay off, it'd be a total bargain). And b) there is one unexpected thing our federal government does remarkably well. You'll never guess. It's health care. Medicare has the lowest administrative costs--by a huge margin--of any health care system in the country. It's about 2-3% of total costs, compared to 10% and up (and up, and up) for private health insurance.


message 29: by Carlie (new)

Carlie bAH HUMBUG!

They can have this country, I'm starting my own cult.


message 30: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill Lisa - you'd gladly pay half of your income in taxes for socialism and you think that's a bargain? And um, in case you haven't noticed, Medicare is going bankrupt. So is Social Security. Nice job,there.


message 31: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill Nothing is free...it's also the most expensive country to live in in Europe. Plus, it prolly won't be a country much longer if the EU gets its way. But there is yet another plus to living in Norway....animal brothels! That just sets my kitty heart to purrin'


message 32: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Yep, what Donna said. I heart european socialism. Sadly, they don't usually take immigrants.

And yes, NB, with the student loans I've got, I could pay half my income for the next nine years and still only pay off the original balance, not the interest. So since I'm paying 25-30% of my income now in federal taxes, and all I've got to show for it is this stupid war...sounds like a fair trade to me.

And Donna, I was only talking about administrative costs, not the actual costs of health care itself. Certainly, medicare and medicaid do have their problems. My experience is only with medicaid (not medicare, which is the program I'm talking about), and only as funding for mental health, and only in Oregon, where it's administered by the state and the counties instead of the federal government like it is in most states. I can tell you here every mental health provider wants a piece of the medicaid pie (and I work for an agency that has a big slice of that pie, with ice cream), because at least in Oregon's system, there's something close to mental health parity. That's not true with a lot of private insurance. Which totally doesn't answer your question.

I think we get a lower rate by the hour for medicaid clients, but get to see them more than 3 times.


message 33: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill Lisa... were you forced to take out student loans? I chose not to...I worked my through college at a state university. It took a long time but it worked. If all you have to show for your taxes is t-shirt philosophy then I'd hold you didn't get your money's worth from your education. I also think you're cherry pickin' your socialism. Nordic countries base theirs on the Scandinavian model, and Norway in particular has shunned the EU. Tell me again how European Socialism is working for France, Germany and England?


message 34: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill In what bizarre universe does nothing is free = everything is free?


message 35: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill It is just a tad strange in here. oh and uh sorry, distracted by a bagel.


message 36: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill Back in elementary school I got in trouble for something that sounded very similar...another story for another time. Flying monkeys! As long as they aren't comin' from anyone's butt, count me in.


message 37: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill Thanks Donna. Someone once said something to the effect that "Giving money to the govt. is like handing a bottle of whiskey and set a car keys to a teen-age boy." Lucky for the Norwegians, their govt embodies much of the same pragmatic good sense that the rest of the population does. The problem is, that can change. And if it does, the people will find they have very little recourse.




message 38: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Yes, NBill, I worked my way through college at a state school too, for my undergraduate degree. I then went on to get a masters degree, and then a Ph.D. It's probably possible, but I don't personally know anyone who's worked their way through ten years of school with no loans. I guess I didn't realize that a degree in t-shirt philosophy wasn't going to impress enough folks.

My success stories:

"I paid my taxes and all I got was this stupid war."

"Make pot roast, not war!"

"My degree cost more than your degree."

"Get the hell out of my city!" Oh, wait, that's not a t-shirt philosophy, that's what I shout at the monster-honkin'-SUV-driving suburbanites who can't manage to get themselves between the yellow lines in the parking lot, or swerve into my lane while texting.

Not worth six figures? Well, shit. Guess I'll have to give up the dream and go into psychology.


message 39: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill ooooh six figures, well I's guess I best be puttin on my finery iffin' I'm gonna be servin' at the table of the massah! So telling.


message 40: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill Well Donna, I dunno...Norwegian immigration continues to rise..and it's labor driven. So anyone claiming they can't move there isn't paying attention. Of course, to move there and expect a job almost certainly means qualifying to work in their oil industry. Boo! Big Oil! Baaaaaad Gaia karma. But the whole lutefisk thing is waaaaaaaaaaay outta line. Sure I eat pure hog fat and bone marrow. But opaque fish jello? Screw that. Gimme the golden arches. USA!USA!USA!


message 41: by Servius Heiner (last edited Apr 26, 2008 04:19AM) (new)

Servius  Heiner Hmmm, I work in the oil industry... I live in a cold dark climate. I just might go there. But I can not live in a place were everything is government dictated. I like my money, I want to spend it. I want to decide what I spend it on. If I want to buy smokes, I'm going to buy smokes. If I want to donate money to a methadone clinic I will. But to tell me the government will "TAKE" my money to pay for these things is unacceptable.

If ones life decisions lands them in debt, sorry work out of it. You get hooked on smack; sorry should have opened a beer instead. If you mother gets you hooked on meth at the age of 12, I will gladly do and give whatever I can to help steer you back into a normal existence. The problem is these government programs are stuffed with sweeping regulations and the smack addicts get the benefits meant for the 12 year old girl. I don’t want to pay for it. Say what you will of me for this stance. Call me in-humane, whatever I don’t care. No sob story is going to make me change my mind. The world is full of ***infectious human waste and supporting it enables it.

Illiterate prisoners, I’m not a roll of charman, don’t give me that crap. I am a horrible speller, with terrible sentence structure. Did I go ask Uncle Sam for a special handout because I fucked off in school when I should have been learning? Nope. I started reading, and self taught myself. Granted I am not tip top but I earn a good living, and it didn’t cost my nieghbor a thing. (Except having to live next to me, I admit that can be a bit of a hassle)



*** Before everyone jumps on me about that label think about the 12 year old girl whose mother pushed meth on her. That girl will probably never have a real chance at a decent life. Somewhere along the line she will probably have a kid. And the circle of life goes on.



message 42: by Stephen (last edited Apr 27, 2008 06:23AM) (new)

Stephen Cafaro (stephencafaro) “Taxation without representation is tyranny” is the proclamation generally attributed to James Otis, a revolutionary war politician. Otis used this statement to proclaim his contempt for the Stamp Act taxes that were imposed on the colonists by the mother country. A few years later the slogan “no taxation without representation” became the battle cry of the American colonies as they sought recognition from King George and the parliament of Britain.

Fast forward to 2008 to an America that has grown to greatness by hard work, declined to mediocrity through apathy, and is threatened by destruction for its greed. We’ve come a long way baby! But, it seems we have arrived, full circle, where we started some 235 years ago when our ancestors rebelled in the streets of Boston to the chant of “no taxation without representation”! Today, we are not in a revolutionary mood as we are more conditioned to the politics of hope and change. It is these ignoble virtues which I think King George may have used to salvage his colonies. But, perhaps the monarch was caught up in a predicament analogous to modern day America. Today, many Americans think we have our own version of King George, namely President George Bush. The colonial era king with a ruling style similar to our current president may have been too arrogant to negotiate, too powerful to submit, too righteous to change, and too financially beholden to his aristocratic colleagues. None the less, a good spin machine may have saved the day for the ailing sovereign. But, I digress.

Today, our politicians have massive spin machines capable of inventing countless scenarios to pacify the concerns of disgruntled Americans. At first, the officials counter objections with bombastic dialogue full of half truths and innuendo, which has the effect of confusing their constituents. Later, they invent issues which are meant to divide and subdivide the people until the citizens fight one another, thereby dismissing the legitimate concerns of the people. When all else fails, the aspiring leaders make promises of change and hope for the future. Who among us can dismiss such heartfelt pledges of a better tomorrow, and so we succumb to the talk with the belief that, this time, someone just may make a difference. But the inevitable conclusion soon becomes apparent when an elected official dismisses the needs of the people in favor of some sudden revelation which causes him to vote his conscience.

And so, here we are, once again, without representation in a new era where a Stamp Act would be a pittance welcomed by the masses of the overtaxed. The cry of “no taxation without representation” should be a resounding and deafening cry, but instead, we are silenced by promises of change. I suggest these political pledges for an altered America are convenient fabrications at best, and are, in all probability, outright lies. I confess to being a political cynic, but the dire history of political promises, has justified my skepticism. And yet, I like all Americans, remain hopeful for a better and more representative government.

Our country has an urgent need for legitimate change from perceptive leaders who truly understand the problems of Americans, and are willing to commit themselves to the solutions. The most important modification that we all desire is a return to representative government. We need leaders who will stand up for the will and needs of the people who elected them, and who will cast their votes accordingly. Politicians must have the fortitude to ignore the special interests, lobbyists and corporations whose needs frequently conflict with the welfare of the American people.

The new proponents of change must amend the way America does business. They must return the lost jobs, factories and industries to the Americans who built this country rather than continue to surrender them to foreigners under the fictitious banner of free trade. They must replace free trade with the social justice concept of fair trade. Free trade is the unrestrained pursuit of profits at any cost. Fair trade is the recognition of the greatness of America in advocating laws concerned with wages, working conditions, child labor, workplace safety, product safety, union recognition, environmental concerns, etc. If our government must persist in exporting democracy and global trade, they must do so in a manner reflective of the standards that generations of Americans have developed and built. Any other approach is hypocritical and a repudiation of American values.

Our leaders must recognize that the minimum wage law has to be replaced with a living wage law. Any American who works in our economy should earn an income sufficient to raise and feed a family, and provide adequate shelter and health care. Our economy and social systems will work most efficiently when all working people are able to financially participate. Many would claim that a living wage would be inflationary, but then neglect to account for the supplemental social cost that the government pays when someone fails to earn a living wage. If you pay a worker a living wage, he will no longer need government handouts in order to make ends meet.

Our representatives must commit to dealing with the problems of illegal immigration. Today, our government and businesses are content to exploit this group as a source of cheap labor . In doing so, they have eroded the standard of living of tens of millions of Americans, while failing to give the illegal immigrants a path to reasonable livelihood. Illegal they are, but inhuman, they are not. Once again, the concept of a living wage will do much to solve the real problems of illegal immigration while simultaneously restoring the dignity of the American worker.

We need representatives who will deal with the Federal Reserve System which has grown accustomed to overproducing dollars thereby creating constant inflation, dollar devaluation, financial bubbles, and the threat of economic collapse. As I write this article, the financial markets are in disarray as investors seek some safe haven for their cash. The Fed has, once again, lowered interest rates and is in the process of loaning hundreds of billions of dollars in a futile attempt to stimulate an out of sync economy. In just the last 10 years, the Federal Reserve policies have sponsored the dot.com bust, the stock market roller coaster, the housing collapse, the mortgage debacle, the credit glitch, and soon to come, the complete failure of the American economy. The Fed is out of control and must be stopped.

The future of America is in the hands of the American people. The people should not rely on the promises of an aspiring presidential candidate, a congressional hopeful or any other government official in deciding our future. There is too much remedial work to be done if we are to salvage America. We can no longer afford the luxury of complacency. We, the people, must insist that those who make promises of social and economic change be forced to honor their campaign commitments, or we must force them out of office. We must be prepared to recycle congress, the president and the judiciary until the welfare of the American nation is recognized as our only priority – by vote if it is still possible or by revolution if we must! In conclusion, I have modified the words of James Otis to meet our current crisis. “Taxation without representation is still tyranny and must be abolished if our nation is to survive”.

My book,”The Road to the Third World”, explores the root of these and many other problems in detail. Essentially, the book is concerned with the social, economic and political consequences of the excesses of capitalism. The novel, with its plots and characters, traces the decline of America over a 60 year period. The book is a work of fiction, but most Americans will find it relevant to our present day financial dilemma.



Servius  Heiner Dude shorten it up a bit, and quit trying to sell your book. "No such thing as bad press" isn't really true, if the author is an ass.


message 44: by Sally (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 0 comments wow, Stephen, that post totally outlasted my attention span. You need to wipe your chin again, too.

And Sue, I'm not arguing that with you.


message 45: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Cafaro (stephencafaro) Hi Nick,

Just trying to get a message out that I beleieve needs to be told. My book has a message and this ass will continue to attempt to deliver it!


Servius  Heiner Having a message is fine Stephen, but you need to work on the delivery. I understand it is an important subject, I don’t think you will find many Americans that are over joyed with the way are government is handling things, the way our elected leaders ( I use the term leader loosely) are acting. But If I can not make it threw your post I don't think I am going to be able to make it threw your book.


message 47: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Cafaro (stephencafaro) Hi Nick,
That post was an article that I wrote for another source. It obviously does not fit this venue. I will keep things short, facetious and vindictive as befits The Haters Club!


message 48: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Cafaro (stephencafaro) Are we in a recessioon? do you think inflation is at an acceptable level? Do you believe any of the presidential candidates will improve the economy?


message 49: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Ooh, I like the word 'recessioon'. I'm picturing a recession crossed with a balloon, and of course balloons inflate. So it's like good ol' reagonomic stagflation. Which is also fun to say. (And a pretty accurate description of what's going on.)

I just hope this stagflation/recessioon doesn't require legwarmers or come with Cyndi Lauper.


message 50: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill Correction....stagflation was actually a result of the Nixon/Carter crapulence of the late 70's. Carter's "National Malaise" speech was a true low point.


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