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Game of Thrones (TV series) > Season Five, Episode Four: Reactions (SPOILERS)

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message 1: by Chris , The Kingslayer (new)

Chris  (haughtc) | 903 comments Sons of the Harpy

Go..


Eyehavenofilter | 325 comments Well first of all the " Bronn and Jamie F'in Lannister Show " was a riot. I think that's the first time I've really laughed several times in a row whilst watching this series.
However that " creepy " lap dance with Jon Snow was so disturbing I don't think I can ever look at the Red Woman the same way again! ( ewwww! )
With all that was going on, I was trying to remember if the story was following the books or not, with the violence, (hard habit to break) and my little heart broke a couple of times. I suppose we shall find out the actual repercussions of the attacks next week.
I made the mistake of seeing a comment on Facebook, and took it at face value, I hope it's not true, ( I hate when that happens, and people leak spoilers way ahead of the episode.)
Things seem to be tidying up a little too neatly, but as we all know, the best laid plans of whoremongers and stags oft go astray.


message 3: by Scott (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments A couple of great fight scenes in episode 4. I was nice to see the winterfell crypts which I don't think have been shown since the pilot. From the previews of episode 5 it looks like Stanis is marching from the wall to Winterfell. My prediction is we will see the battle of Winterfell this season. It also looks like a major character died in the battle with the harpies.


message 4: by mark (new)

mark monday (majestic-plural) | 343 comments yeah that last scene was fantastic. sad to see Barriston go but at least he went after we finally get to see him fight (and after a nice scene with Danerys). Grey Worm is obviously not dead because we have yet to see him show Missandei why the Unsullied are so popular with the ladies.

I wonder whether it will be Ellaria or Obara who'll have a date with Myrcella's ear. although I'm hoping the tv series will just cut that out

attack of the Stone Men for Jorah & Tyrion en route to Mereen? I hope so.

Meryn Trant is going to Braavos! where Arya is currently hanging out! yay! time to work on that list

so I guess the show has confirmed the whole R+L=JS


message 5: by Richard (new)

Richard Sutton (richardsutton) | 81 comments Disappointed. Maybe because I've just finished a re-read of the books, the changes to the storylines in this episode were kind of annoying, especially Belish leaving Sansa with the Boltons at Winterfell and going back to King's Landing? WTF?

I also was surprised that the whole Sandsnake Revenge Plotting was reduced to just a scene with the gals in a tent. The context of the reasons why the Myrcella war might make sense for Dorne is completely missing as is the support from those with differing reasons. Meh...

I've gotta get over it. There should really be no comparison between the TV series and the books. It's almost as if the producers (GRRM included) have decided that now that the characters are fully fleshed, they can do whatever they want with them. OK, I guess. I'll still bite.


message 6: by Richard (new)

Richard Sutton (richardsutton) | 81 comments Scott wrote: "A couple of great fight scenes in episode 4. I was nice to see the winterfell crypts which I don't think have been shown since the pilot. From the previews of episode 5 it looks like Stanis is marc..."

Ser Selmy? That's just too wide a departure and a complete flop on the nature of the nasty, stealthy war of attrition the Harpies ran in the books. Hizdahr wasn't even mentioned.


message 7: by Scott (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments Mark I think your right about the show basically confirming the R+L=J theory. My else would the red women try it with Jon if she didn't know through her magic that he really has kings blood.


message 8: by Scott (last edited May 04, 2015 05:09AM) (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments They don't need Selmy to lead the defense against the invading slave cities since that story appears to be dropped. So why not kill him off to increase shock value. Yeah it sucks. Maybe Martin is going to kill him off in winds of winter anyway after the battle of Maureen. He was a pretty good character. Valar Morghulis.


message 9: by Richard (new)

Richard Sutton (richardsutton) | 81 comments So I guess Dany isn't going flyabout then... too bad. That was really important to set up "Winds". Oh well...


message 10: by Richard (last edited May 04, 2015 05:44AM) (new)

Richard Sutton (richardsutton) | 81 comments Scott wrote: "Mark I think your right about the show basically confirming the R+L=J theory. My else would the red women try it with Jon if she didn't know through her magic that he really has kings blood."

That scene really annoyed me. Completely out of character for both. That information has already been conveyed subtly -- do we really need to abandon nuance? Oh. It's TV. Right.


message 11: by Eyehavenofilter (new)

Eyehavenofilter | 325 comments Since I've had time to digest a bit I have a few unanswered questions...
1.Will Littletwistedfinger return to an almost certain death in Kings Landing or will he get a warning from his little friend in his whore house?
2. Will someone ( Bronn ) pay with their life, for trying to rescuie Marcella ?
3. Who will be responsible for outing Cerci, and her sinful lifestyle, and sending her on her "walk of shame".
4. Is Grey Worn really dead? ( say it ain't so!)
5. Was that " You know nothing Jon Snow" comment just a mind " fook" or or was the Red Woman channeling The beloved Ygritte?
And last but not least have we just entered the dreaded parallel universe of GRRM saying " who the hell cares, anymore?"
Grumble grumble


message 12: by Scott (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments Wasn't the red women's "you know nothing Jon snow" actually is the books as well?


message 13: by Richard (last edited May 04, 2015 06:16AM) (new)

Richard Sutton (richardsutton) | 81 comments Ygritte had red hair. That's the only connection. And, BTW, GRRM, there are many and more who give a shite about the threads of your stories. Don't let the small-picture/small brain size requirements of Television production ruin your narrative.


message 14: by Eyehavenofilter (new)

Eyehavenofilter | 325 comments I must re-read...


message 15: by Scott (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments I just found it in the Dance with Dragons. melisandre does say "then you know nothing, Jon Snow"


message 16: by Richard (last edited May 04, 2015 07:22AM) (new)

Richard Sutton (richardsutton) | 81 comments I just finished ADWD last night before the episode aired and missed that. Oh well, I'm still pissed off.

But, did she do the lap dance?


message 17: by Scott (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments Well that's her spell she's used in previous episodes. She used the spell in the books as well but it wasn't as explicit.


message 18: by Scott (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments The one thing that really seems bad is the Dorne plot line. Why do they want to avenge Oberlin since he died in a legal combat. Oberlin died killing the mountain to avenge Elia's murder. And Tywin is now dead as well. I just don't see a motive now. At least in the books we had doran's plot for world domination


message 19: by Richard (last edited May 04, 2015 07:52AM) (new)

Richard Sutton (richardsutton) | 81 comments If they drop the added motivation of Doran's secret Targaryen heir, the whole thing will seem pointless. There's a lot that should have been dropped in earlier seasons if this is what we're going to have to expect. A lot of threads that carry lots of clout in the books are withering un-resolved in the series.


message 20: by Scott (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments The stories in the North (wall, winterfell) might workout. Have to see more episodes. Still wondering why little finger is returning to kings landing and what's going to happen there. In kings landing I like the sparrows but I don't really like Cersei this season so far. Cersei was much better in previous seasons. It was also much better in books 4 and 5


message 21: by Maureen (new)

Maureen | 248 comments My thoughts:
-At first I thought the most shocking thing about this episode was Stannis and Shireen's heart-to-heart ::AWE:: I think that is bad news for one or both of them though.
-THEN, came the last scene and I was yelling BARRISTAN!! at the TV. My Husband looks at me and says, "Let me guess, he doesn't die in the books." Smart ass. Glad he got to fight and be a BA though.
-Sad about Grey Worm but I think he really is dead.
-Eyehavenofilter: I think the High Sparrow already knows about Cersei (from Lancel confession) and he is just watching her dig her own hole with this Margaery/Loras plot.
-Also, I don't think Littlefinger is really going to King's Landing. Maybe riding out to meet Stannis and work his magic with him? Maybe something else? I don't know. But I guess Bolton knows what was in that letter, maybe he will tell us later.

I think thats it. BARRISTAN!!!!!!!!


message 22: by Scott (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments Ian McElhinnery (the actor playing Ser Barristan) gave an interview about his death on the show. Apparently he read the books so was really shocked to find out his character was being killed off on the show.


message 23: by mark (last edited May 04, 2015 03:36PM) (new)

mark monday (majestic-plural) | 343 comments Richard wrote: "I've gotta get over it. There should really be no comparison between the TV series and the books...."

somewhere in the first season - possibly around the time Ros was introduced - I realized that this show is not going to be the show I wanted it to be. meaning that it would be a typical HBO show rather than the ASOIF adaptation of my dreams. so it would combine the cutting intelligence of great HBO shows like Sopranos with the imagery of great HBO shows like Rome or the World War 2 miniseries - and that it would also include the cheesy, lowest-common-denominator T&A and the sometimes lazy storytelling and one-note characterization of cheesy, stupid-fun shows like True Blood.

knowing that, somehow I just let all my frustrations go by completely lowering my expectations. I do get annoyed at times (removing Arianne Martell for example), but for the most part my expectations are so reduced that I am just delighted that I'm even seeing an adaptation. even if the characters are changed and we're now in some sort of alternate universe version of the books. I just don't care - and that's because I'll always have the books and I'll always consider the books to be superior.

in the meantime, I can just sit back and enjoy an often brilliant and also sometimes teeth-grindingly lame fantasy series that's set in medieval times and has excellent action and excellent acting - and also does not have a whole lot of interest in giving me my dream version of one of my favorite book series.

I do think Game of Thrones is a great show. a solid A-/B+ show. but in the end, I don't think it will ever reach the heights of truly A+ shows like Mad Men or The Wire. and that's due to the show runners, who are talented but are also clearly very far from geniuses. they can give us amazing episodes but they also slip up regularly with various sorts of foolishness and juvenile pandering. as far as shows of this type go, I'd rank Game of Thrones above Vikings and Spartacus (but not by much) and definitely below Rome.


message 24: by Remy (new)

Remy Blas (remyblas) | 203 comments I really don't know what to say.

Is Barristan really dead? Did they actually killed him off? I can say that this time, I did not see that coming at all. I thought he was gonna arrive and save Grey Worm in the last second. And what about him? Is he dead too?

I can't believe this. And I'm a little pissed off about this, because... is there a point to these deaths exclusive to the show or are they just killing off characters for the sake of drama and tragedy?

I can't even comment on the rest of the episode, I'm in shock.


message 25: by Remy (new)

Remy Blas (remyblas) | 203 comments Oh, just one thing. Somebody mentioned something about Jorah and Tyrion encountering the Stone Men. I thought about that when Stannis mentioned the Stone Men being in the ruins of Valyria instead of a bridge in the Rhoynar. Also, they mentioned the Stone Men in the show, which might be an indication they'll appear, and the thing about Valyria, a geographic justification for when Tyrion and Jorah find them. Also, I think maybe that will happen in the next episode and Drogon will have a part in it, since the preview for next weeks episode shows them seeing Drogon flying above them.


message 26: by Silvana (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) I feel bad for Ian McElhinney. He read the books and was clearly upset. He is fun to watch, I don't understand why they have to kill him of all people.

Sand Snakes suck as expected, a bunch of Xena clones. Ellaria...Don't get me started.

Mel and Jon is basically fulfilling the boob quota. Totally unnecessary and disgusting.

Littlefinger leaving Sansa... Well, that's smart. His messenger apparently can teleport too.

The only redeeming point is Jorah and Tyrion and Stannis and Shireen. We got another Stone Men reference!

Almost half way through the season and no episode I really like. Not a good sign.


message 27: by Scott (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments I will be great if Tyrion and Jorah encounter the Stone Men.


message 28: by Silvana (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) I think they will meet them for sure. Too many references already. I think Jorah will suffer the same fate as JonCon.


message 29: by Richard (new)

Richard Sutton (richardsutton) | 81 comments The barge-boat cruise up Mother Royne was so enjoyable and did such a great job showing various new sides of Tyrion, to have it all folded into a short rowboat trip for two was also a big disappointment. I hope I'm wrong. I'm crossing my ginger for the Bridge of Sorrows...


message 30: by Silvana (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) Yeah it is my fave part of Tyrion's ADwD journey. The world building is so good. But I think we will see the ruins based on the next episode's preview. I hope their version of Stone Men is nothing like that Fantastic Four guy who is a rock or something.


message 31: by Richard (new)

Richard Sutton (richardsutton) | 81 comments Exactly right. Thanks for the spoiler. I needed some reason to believe. I guess I'm a kind of weird reader, but ADWD may be my favorite of the four so far...


message 32: by Maureen (new)

Maureen | 248 comments Remy wrote: "Oh, just one thing. Somebody mentioned something about Jorah and Tyrion encountering the Stone Men. I thought about that when Stannis mentioned the Stone Men being in the ruins of Valyria instead o..."

Oh yeah! I forgot about them mentioning Valyria in refrence to the stone men!! I would be disappointed if we didn't get to see some cool stone men fighting. And maybe Jorah would replace the character in the books who gets Greyscale (I think you're right Silvana). Then he will hide it just like him too. Excited to for ruins and fog. I had such a cool vision in my head of the river where they meet the stone men. Hope they do it justice.


message 33: by Remy (new)

Remy Blas (remyblas) | 203 comments I agree, I thought the same thing about Jorah getting the greyscale instead of Connington. I can almost bet on it.


message 34: by Scott (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments I don't know about jorah and grayscale. I thought he was supposed to be in the fighting pits this season based on the released stills, where are they to have time to watch grayscale spread over him


message 35: by Maureen (new)

Maureen | 248 comments I think its definitely plausible. Connington hid it for what seemed like a pretty long time in the books. If it's, lets say, on his shield hand and he keeps gloves on after he gets it (like Connington) he might be able to keep it hidden for a while. Plus, they are melting stories together left and right. I think its do-able in TV land.


message 36: by Eyehavenofilter (new)

Eyehavenofilter | 325 comments Just came across in interesting theory that Jorahs return will signify the combining of Jorah and Barristons characters... Too bad I liked Barriston better, Jorah was getting too whiney for me.
And yes I'm a bit disappointed in the Zena clones, I expected more from the sand snakes.
Cerci has become a shadow of her former self, I was waiting for her to smack the hell out of Margery.... ( damnit!) what has Cerci got against Littletwistedfinger anyway....?
Why the recasting of Marcella, we haven't even seen her close up yet and by the time we do the first actress would have been old enough for sure. She's supposed to be older than Tommen! Right?
I'm so confused.... I've got to let these little things go before I have a brain anurisim.
Ok I'm rambling....


message 37: by Silvana (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) They recast Myrcella, now she looks older than Tommen. We got a glimpse of her in episode 2.

Any of you guys think Brienne will meet Stannis on the way or at Winterfell? She swore to kill Stannis CMIIW.

As for her storyline, she probably will not meet with Jaime in the Riverlands since Jaime is busy going south and Brienne is going north. Unless they both have TARDIS like Littlefinger.


message 38: by mark (new)

mark monday (majestic-plural) | 343 comments Unless they both have TARDIS like Littlefinger.

ha!


message 39: by Eyehavenofilter (new)

Eyehavenofilter | 325 comments Just realized that Bronn ( Jerome Flynn ) is on " Ripper Street" on BBC!
He really gets around!


message 40: by Michael (new)

Michael Anthony (michaelanthony007) | 22 comments The show is so far from the books now, just enjoying it as a totally changed now entity.
Is Barristan really dead before the battle? It looked like him on that slab but not sure.
Bronn does get around. He sings too -
http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2015/01/02...


message 41: by Scott (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments I think Stannis and Brienne will likely meet up this season. One way might be for Sansa and thion to escape from winterfell and head for Stannis's army similar to the books just replacing Jayne with Sansa. While this is happening Brienne and pod will follow them.


message 42: by Scott (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments I also think Stannis will go straight to winterfell skipping the Deepwood motte plot line from the books.


message 43: by Eyehavenofilter (new)

Eyehavenofilter | 325 comments Thanks Michael that was worth it! I've been looking for that for ages!


message 44: by Eyehavenofilter (new)

Eyehavenofilter | 325 comments Also to quote Dexter...." Tonight's the night!"


message 45: by Remy (new)

Remy Blas (remyblas) | 203 comments There's still a part in me that wants to believe Barristan might not be dead after all. There's a little bit of hope. Because I've been defending the show for years now against the book-purists haters, but this... this might take me to the other side.

Tonight's the night.


message 46: by Scott (new)

Scott Flicker | 173 comments Hey it's only a show. I love both the show and the books. I think the show is great a differences with the books don't bother me. What would really bother me is if they kill off a character just for shock value and don't really do anything else with it. The story and characters need to get stronger through their responses to the deaths otherwise it's just a waste. We'll see where the story goes with the next episode.


message 47: by Jessica (new)

Jessica | 152 comments mark wrote: "Richard wrote: "I've gotta get over it. There should really be no comparison between the TV series and the books...."

somewhere in the first season - possibly around the time Ros was introduced - ..."


I completely understand all of that. However, it hasn't been that easy for some of us. I know, for me, nothing has really bothered me (changes etc) until last season. Since the first season they stuck pretty close to the books. They had a few changes or left stuff out but it made since for tv purposes last season is when I realized that format was changing. And I'm sure part if it is the books aren't complete. It's aggravating. Personally I think the writers are taking advantage if the fact that they know things the reAders don't.

That said. It's just not the same this season. The excitement I had for the show has dwindled down to a "well that's neat" reaction. I obviously still enjoy the show or I wouldn't bd wasting my time. But it's not my favorite anymore. Meaning, if I miss an episode a week could go by before I watch it (like I did with this episode). I am trying to now separate the two entities, book and show. But it's frustrating to do that when you're being forced into it. It kind of takes the enjoyment out of both.

As for this episode, I liked the moment between Stannis and Shireen. Here is an example if something bring added that I respect. There's a purpose and reason for it. I was furious with the Barriston situation.
It's like they have a dart board full of characters they need to get rid of and the dart chose him. And to me that was a sad way for that character to go. I can only hope Martin gives that character a better death than dying in a back alley.

And don't get me started on Jaimie. He's second to Tyrion on my favorite list in the books. Show Jaimie? Not liking the representation at all. He's different and still being ruled by Cersei's cunt. Grow a pair dammit!


message 48: by Sionna (new)

Sionna L Scott wrote: "Hey it's only a show. I love both the show and the books. I think the show is great a differences with the books don't bother me. What would really bother me is if they kill off a character just fo..."

I agree on one level, but I think GRRM is after a realistic fiction which of course sounds contradictory but I think I get where he is going. Keeping characters alive for the story is artifice. Sometimes in real life randomness happens and strong people die. If a character dies because of realistic circumstances that's one thing, but killing them off just to create tension isn't great. Keeping their stories interesting isn't going to be hard in this series...


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