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House of Chains (Malazan Book of the Fallen, #4)
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Malazan > HoC: Book Two - Cold Iron

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Scott (thekeeblertree) | 1049 comments Man, bad ass little history lesson we get from Nok in his conversation with Tavore about the start of Kellanved's empire:

- Kellanved and Dancer started their empire by driving out the criminal element in Malaz City

- Nok, Dujek, Nok's wife and a couple Napans were the first additions to this crew

- they used the Deadhouse as a base of operations. In doing so were granted "certain gifts" like longevity and immunity to most diseases

- Surly (Laseen), Toc Elder, Dassem Ultor and Tayschren were later added along with Duiker

- Nok's wife was a casualty

More of this story would be awesome


Scott (thekeeblertree) | 1049 comments Cotillion gathering his "patrons" to try and figure out if his realm is being assaulted. Wonder if Shadow still has plans of removing Laseen.

Really hope we start to get more time with, and info on, Cotillion and Shadowthrone. Kalam now being in their employ will be interesting to witness (see what I did there?)

Also wonder if Apsalar/Crokus (Cutter) will become a favorite duo


Scott (thekeeblertree) | 1049 comments Loving this book so far, I haven't hit a "need a break" point yet, which I usually do with these books


Geoff (geoffgreer) Scott wrote: "Man, bad ass little history lesson we get from Nok in his conversation with Tavore about the start of Kellanved's empire:

- Kellanved and Dancer started their empire by driving out the criminal el..."


Yes, this backstory was very interesting. This little taste really peaked my interest in the formation of the Malazan Empire.


Scott (thekeeblertree) | 1049 comments Seriously. Think Sky made the point in the last book that Erikson is so good you look forward to these info dump-ish parts and they typically aren't long enough

Love reading the fear the rebellion has regarding Quick Ben and Kalam. Really wish that duo was never broken up

And just twists the knife again reading them discussing the beat down Dujek's army took against the Pannion Domin. I miss Whiskeyjack


Scott (thekeeblertree) | 1049 comments You know, one thing I'm having trouble with in this series is how some of these nobles are able to still get high postings over career soldiers like the Lt. Of Fiddler's new regiment.

Laseen has gone to great lengths to cull the nobility but she still allows them to have high postings in her army? Doesn't really make sense to me

Love that Fiddler is starting to take charge and his obviously credibility is gaining him a following with the veterans like Gesler, Stormy and the few sappers (Cuttle). Totally love the sappers, they have some of the best personalities


Peter | 153 comments I had assumed it was similar to how the military works with college educations in the US. From what I've been told (please correct me if I'm wrong), in some cases having a college degree allows you to enter the military as an officer (though officer candidate school is still required) instead of the lowest rank in which ever branch you choose.

Although not a direct correlation, I think it is similar enough where being a noble had the same "status" (if not more) afforded by a college education that allowed them to enter at higher levels. Unfortunately, being noble has little to do with officer competency as Fiddler's company experiences.

I dunno, that's just what I assumed based on what I have been told when I had the same question while reading. If anyone knows for certain, please feel free to correct me.

Scott does make a good point though it doesn't really make sense that the nobility are simultaneously culled and offered higher postings.


Dara (cmdrdara) I always had the impression that Fiddler didn't want a higher posting. He was happy where he was.


Peter | 153 comments Yep, I agree with Dara about Fid. He seemed pretty content doing what he was doing. (:


Scott (thekeeblertree) | 1049 comments Agreed about Fiddler.

Just find it strange that these nobles who have no leadership or understanding of tactics are put in places of power. You know there are plenty of soldiers like Whiskeyjack or Dujek who would take on leadership roles as a squad commander or lieutenant

Even Tavore being the Adjunct makes little to no sense


Scott (thekeeblertree) | 1049 comments Meant to add that I wonder if this is explained at some point or maybe it has been and I missed it. I know he's mentioned nobles buying their positions but it seems like a weird distinction to make. You can't live in the city and be a noble but you can lead my army


Scott (thekeeblertree) | 1049 comments From comments made by Fiddler in this book about the Bridgeburners having something a "little extra" than most mortals, and Paran's blessing of Whiskeyjack and company last book, I get the feeling that another new House might be introduced to this game.

Then we had that interesting conversation between Heboric and L'oric regarding the Master of the Deck being associated with the Bridgeburners

Maybe I'm just fishing for a way to get more Whiskeyjack : /


message 13: by TS (new) - rated it 4 stars

TS Chan (tschan) | 72 comments Scott wrote: "From comments made by Fiddler in this book about the Bridgeburners having something a "little extra" than most mortals, and Paran's blessing of Whiskeyjack and company last book, I get the feeling ..."

I grasp at any mention of the Bridgeburners. Miss them so much!


Scott (thekeeblertree) | 1049 comments I know! When Fid found out about Whiskeyjack... too many feels


Peter | 153 comments That's an interesting observation about Tavore, Alex. It reminds me of Coltaine in DG. I found him really intriguing and wanted to know more, but we only ever saw him from afar through Duiker. It only made him more interesting to me.


Scott (thekeeblertree) | 1049 comments Yeah I love the marines, have been one of the highlights of the series. Cuttle has been an awesome addition to the cast.

So far the only storyline I don't care much for is Pearl/Lostara


Scott (thekeeblertree) | 1049 comments Agreed, Alex. That could have gone on a lot longer for me. So intriguing


Geoff (geoffgreer) I think the earliest timeline book by ICE is Night of Knives, which is the fall of Kellanved's empire.

But maybe in the future.


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TS Chan (tschan) | 72 comments Scott wrote: "So far the only storyline I don't care much for is Pearl/Lostara"

I found it to be pretty hilarious at times! The way Lostara tries to subdue her attraction by getting constantly annoyed with Pearl. And Pearl's dialogue! :D


Justine (justinejustine) | 318 comments Alex wrote: "I love their structure. Yeah, there is hierarchy, but you have to realize that the people on the ground probably know better than you do."

I was thinking about this part where you were explaining this...that's probably why there was such complete shock when Tavore just made that top down decision without any discussion on how things were to be divided up in Aren. There was no deference to the people on the ground in terms of the larger picture - although they were told to pick their own officers. That seemed to surprise them as not the typical Malazan way of doing things.


message 21: by Sky (last edited May 17, 2015 10:44PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sky | 1291 comments Finally finished this section - reading time has been pretty limited.

A few random notes I took

- So Cutter/Fiddler and Apsalar are off to find the drifting island Quon Tali, where Rake left the Tiste Andii to guard the throne of shadow. Only one Tiste Andii is left. The Tiste Edur apparently assail the islands top. The ship that Kasra boarded in the Warren - manned by Tiste Edur, the same used by Gessler/Stormy/Truth, was said to be made from wood from Drift Avalii (by Pearl). I wonder if the headless Tiste Andii rowing the ship are made up of former guards of the island.

- Onrack and Trull travel this flooded warren. Onrack releases two Hounds of Dark. (are there hounds of every house or just Shadow/Dark? Hounds of Light?)

- Something going on about the relationship of the houses light/dark/shadow, the "triumvirate". Kurald this, Kurald that.

- The followers of Rashan, cult destroyed by the Malazans, worshiped the empty throne.

- Who assails the claim of house shadow? As I recall from a previous book, Paran says Shadowthrone never actually claimed the throne, he just claimed the guardhouse - the throne is still empty? Followers of Rashan? Someone else?

- But Trull says to command the hounds, you must sit in the Throne of Shadow. As far as I know Shadowthrone (hey clever name!) commands the hounds.

- Another race! Tiste Liosan. So Dark, Light, Shadow?

- The showdown between the T'lan Imass and the arrogant Liosan was pretty cool.

- So we learn what really happened (well a lot more about what happened) when Heboric touched the giant statue's finger in the desert. So that island that is mined was created just to encase the statue? I thought heboric had some theory about the formation of otataral in a previous book.

- These statues (there are more it seems) are from another world (like the chained one?) and are somehow automagically encased in otataral when they appear in this realm. Why are they sent? What is their purpose?

- Which reminds me...the Malazans seem to spend a lot of time and effort mining otataral. what the heck do they do with it all, besides make a sword for the adjunct? Why don't more people fight with otataral weapons, like the Teblor? I guess Kalem (yay Kalem!) purchases a Wickan weapon embued with otataral.

- I guess Bellurdan Skullkrusher was a Toblakai, like Kasra. I wonder how he left the Teblor to find himself a high mage of the Malazan empire? I wonder if Kasra knew him?

- So Herboric is being poisoned by his tea? The herb (beware anything that sounds like henbane!) causes him to slip slowly into permanent nightmare?

- I love all the allusions and references to chains all throughout the book.

- L'oric mentions the tanno song Kimloc made for the BBs (he made it for Fiddler, right?) and says that for the song to be sanctified, a BB has to return back to Raraku. Fid's on his way back to Raraku.

- What are Kamist Reloe and Korbolo Dom up to? Febryl kills Sha'ik, Tavore kills Febryl, they kill Tavore, then crush the rebellion, become Laseen's saviors, get close to her, then kill her. What a convoluted plan! That's even worse than the plan to travel through DHG to get to the empress and kill her :) Later Gessler tells Fid Korbolo was pissed at WJ for not taking the throne for himself after the Emperor's death.

- As peter observed earlier, mentions of Urko's strong punch. Putting him as the likely candidate to be The Keeper

- Coltaine has been reborn! Hopefully Duiker soon too. Ah what a cute couple of man-babies they will make ;)


Justine (justinejustine) | 318 comments Duiker already came back in his old body at the end of Memories of Ice, didn't he? I think only Coltaine gets to be a cute man baby.


Geoff (geoffgreer) Justine wrote: "Duiker already came back in his old body at the end of Memories of Ice, didn't he? I think only Coltaine gets to be a cute man baby."

Yeah, Duiker got revived by that vial as an adult. While Coltaine's crow resurrection is basically setting his life back to day one.


message 24: by Sky (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sky | 1291 comments ah...that sort of rings a bell...It was in the epilogue, maybe? I'll have to go review it. Where'd he materialize/run off to after being revived?


Peter | 153 comments Yeah he shows up at the verrrry end of the epilogue of MoI in Krul's Bar where he is about to tell Picker and Co. the "story of the Chain of Dogs. Of Coltaine of the Crow Clan, newly come Fist to the 7th Army ...'


message 26: by Sky (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sky | 1291 comments oh yeah, that's right! :)


Peter | 153 comments I love that closing image of MoI, where its a group of heroes basically sitting down to hear the story of other heroes. (:


Scott (thekeeblertree) | 1049 comments Peter wrote: "I love that closing image of MoI, where its a group of heroes basically sitting down to hear the story of other heroes. (:"

yeah, that was a great ending. really cool imagery


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