Lover Eternal (Black Dagger Brotherhood, #2) Lover Eternal discussion


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John Matthew and Darius

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Carmen Okay, so this has been bugging me for YEARS, and no one has answered this question as far as I know (least of all Ward), so I'm just going to try here. Does anyone know (or have an answer from Ward herself) how John Matthew is the reincarnation of Darius when John Matthew was born long before Darius even died? How could Darius exist in the body of a boy for more than two decades?


message 2: by Lisa (new) - added it

Lisa I have no Idea, maybe there was a bit of a time difference from when Darius died, his time in the fade, before reincarnating into John Matthews? And is it confirmed that John really is the Darius reincarnation. I mean I think so, and there where some hints that he is but was it really confirmed?


Carmen Lisa wrote: "I have no Idea, maybe there was a bit of a time difference from when Darius died, his time in the fade, before reincarnating into John Matthews? And is it confirmed that John really is the Darius ..."

I thought that Ward confirmed it, but I could be wrong.


Dhfan4life I think it was like the instance of when the Omega went back through time with his abilities and fathered Lash. Just in SV's case, given how many years and women the guys slept with, vamp and human alike. I can see her abilities going back in time and taking one of the human women that Darius ever slept with, and made sure the night they hooked up, she got preggars with the baby and his soul replaced that of the child being created.

Fast forward through to present day and you get the JM we know that was pre-trans and was hanging with Mary.


Shaye Lowe I always thought the mother god just put him there already formed. I did not believe he was born.


Brandi It's like Dhfan4life said, this has to do with the SV doing like the Omega did and going back and basically implanting Darius' soul. It would be interesting to know all the details though. I would think, at least how I see it in my head, is she went back enough years to find a woman that Darius was with possibly, so he has Darius' DNA? (could be maybe, or maybe it's just the fact that his soul is residing in JM that makes his DNA match, purely speculation on both parts) and then presto...Darius/JM.

The WARDen hasn't ever said anything much on the subject other than to say that JM will never retain his memories of Darius but he will continue to have issues with seizures and "flashes" of memory like he has so far in the series.


Dhfan4life Brandi wrote: "It's like Dhfan4life said, this has to do with the SV doing like the Omega did and going back and basically implanting Darius' soul. It would be interesting to know all the details though. I would ..."

Good call on the DNA aspect. Could most likely be right about that as well. I also agree that I wish Ward had fleshed things out a bit more. And even had the guys share more memories with not just JM but with Beth too about her father. I mean she is not only the first shellan we meet, but she had a tie to the world through her dad as well. I mean yea we get flashes of him with a young Tohr and being in the training camp. But not much other than a house is ever really given to Beth. And I always thought that was kind of shady. I mean the least we could have read was that Wrath, before he went fully blind could have told her, that she got her hair and eye color from Darius or something. Maybe a particular way she quirked her mouth like him. ANYTHING!!!


Brandi Now that you mention it yeah that would have been nice to see as well. I mean they showed Beth being standoffish at first about her father but it is obvious she wants to know of him and now her brother. With all the brothers you would think there would be some more 'Hey remember when darius...' going on to benefit Beth and JM. Though I do fear that if they do that it could cause seizures with JM.


Dhfan4life True, but even could have pulled Beth aside and shared some stories or something without JM around. Cause yea, one way or another I think JM will always get the seizures. Just being back in the same surroundings again and everything and everyone being such a trigger for both his lives.


Brandi Yea and Ward has stated in recent book signings thag the seizure thing will always be an issue for JM. Because you know wanting to watch your daughter grow up and coming back with no memory of her and living the life he had to and having no voice wasn't suffering enough lol


Dhfan4life Can't forget those awkward moments when everyone else is off somewhere and it's just him and Wrath. Oh man that is a trip. One can't see, and the other can't talk. Quite the convos they must have lol.


Brandi Haha oh geez almost forgot about that poor kid


Dhfan4life Yes, it was crazy as ever when he and Xhex had their ceremony too. Cause it was in a way sorta uber awkward even with there being the go between. Cause there was obvious moments where the soon to be mated Hellren had to affirm certain stuff and it's like pauses in between. And Wrath kind of had to be like well I guess it's time to move on I guess...Such a trip.


Carmen I think it would be quite the plot to have the other brothers figure out who John really is, but they can't say anything on order from the Scribe Virgin, which would create one heck of a crisis of conscience. But I'll settle for a better explanation of John's predicament. :)


Dhfan4life Would be interesting to see how, if ever they could figure it out. As nobody even visits the SV any more. And I think, personal opinion here, that SV is getting weaker cause nobody from her brand of vamnps is having offspring with the Chosen any more. And I think SV derives energy through those connections some how or other.


Brandi I don't think it's just the fact that none of the Chosen are being mated I think it's also the lack of traditions being followed. I think the Scribe Virgin is fading kind of like how in some stories they say that gods get stronger or weaker depending on how many people believe and rely on them and continue to offer up their prayers and traditions to them. I think that's what's happening with her. She's not needed like she used to be. The brotherhood is handling more things on their own. Phury is now caring for the Chosen and taking them out of the Sanctuary.


Dhfan4life Brandi wrote: "I don't think it's just the fact that none of the Chosen are being mated I think it's also the lack of traditions being followed. I think the Scribe Virgin is fading kind of like how in some storie..."

Oh I definitely agree about the belief system part. But when I was saying about the Chosen part of things too, is that same for how they say about believing in the Gods gives them strength and power too? Well she created this unique race of individuals as well. That likely waaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the old country always sought her guidance and raised their children to do so and be more worshipful. Most especially with the brotherhood and the Chosen having children together. Begetting stronger, more faith based brothers and more Chosen that will always reside in her Sanctuary for them. Kind of a circle of life effect.

But yea, as you said Brandi. They came to the new world and it seemed like they really did make Kanye their new "Jesus" of a sort and other than briefly in the earlier books, we haven't seen then go to her for anything. Although truthfully after particular things came out after a certain point I can understand that. But as time went on though and some of them are having their own kids, a whole OTHER generation of vamps/her created peeps won't even really know much about her really. And that really has to be a kick in the pants if Payne ever gets around to having kids. We already know V is definitely not feeling her to the utmost and no shellan for baby making there either. So even the loss from her own kids has to be a major energy/power kick in the teeth too.


Vipsania Agrippina *** spoilers ***

Coming into the discussion way late so apologies .... at some point in the series Xhex senses that JM has two separate and distinct "grids" present. I wonder if instead of reincarnation, JM is actually sharing the same body with Darius' spirit and when Darius emerges, JM short circuits? Just a thought.


Dhfan4life Vipsania wrote: "*** spoilers ***

Coming into the discussion way late so apologies .... at some point in the series Xhex senses that JM has two separate and distinct "grids" present. I wonder if instead of reincar..."


In which book was that mentioned? I might have missed it in all the over flow of other characters' POVes.


Carmen I don't remember that either, but it's been awhile. That actually makes sense! :)


Vipsania Agrippina This is the convo (I'm way too obsessed with these characters).....

***spoilers***




"The King" page 426 ...

“Your grid has that shadow,” she murmured, shaking her head. “I’ve never seen one
like it. It’s as if—I don’t know, you’re parallel-processing life? Or that . . .”


What, he demanded.


“There are two of you in there.”

That’s how it feels. He rubbed his already messy hair. Especially around her.

“She is your sister.”


Dhfan4life Hmm, I totally must have forgot about that. But just makes it worse if Ward never really brings it up to ever be mentioned or anything.

As to what you were saying before. I always thought JM was just Darius reincarnated anyway. I mean as we had seen how the Omega went back through time and some how or other made himself Lash's dad. The SV must have went back in time and implanted Darius's spirit in one of his errant "swimmers" that led to him being born as his own child of sorts.

And I guess it kind of worked out as the genetic material was there. Just SV altered a point in time where there wouldn't have been a kid. To make it one so that there was.

So actually your theory could be right Vipsania. A bit of a clash of past and present lives at times.


Vipsania Agrippina I guess one fact that would support reincarnation is the BDB birthmark.

I would also love to know who birthed JM. Unless, he was given the memories of the orphanage. Wouldn't he have encountered Beth there since they are just a few years apart in age? So many questions :)


Dhfan4life Interesting question on whose JM's mom is. Probably just one of the BDB groupies out there. And I thought Beth was so entrenched in the human world, that she most likely never had a chance to meet other vamps. At least that we know of.


message 25: by Carmen (last edited Feb 14, 2017 12:29PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Carmen What if his mother was one of the human women that slept with the vampire man-whore that fathered Manny, Butch, and the girl journalist (I can't remember her name)? That would be one hell of a twist!


Dhfan4life Carmen wrote: "What if his mother was one of the women that slept with the vampire man-whore that fathered Manny, Butch, and the girl journalist (I can't remember her name)? That would be one hell of a twist!"

And all I can say is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Haha, kind of melodramatic I know. But I'm tired of everybody being related to Wrath. I want somebody surprisingly enough being related to Rhage. Cause I still feel Ward copped out with his back story or lack there of.


Vipsania Agrippina ***more spoilers****





Hahaha! Naasha!

That would mean that Butch, Manny, Jo, and Axe are related through Murdher. Wow.


Dhfan4life Vipsania wrote: "***more spoilers****





Hahaha! Naasha!

That would mean that Butch, Manny, Jo, and Axe are related through Murdher. Wow."


Oh no I wasn't meaning Naasha. Cause I thought in V's or Butch's book they had mentioned other groupies that they had that wanted to be with them.

I thikn we only learned about Naasha, do to her hidden slave and well the BOB group was using her as fast food and a motel 6 stop over.

But wouldn't that be a doozy if Mhurder was the start of it all but naw, cause they have such a strong lineage about them though for that to not quite happen.


Vipsania Agrippina Ooooohhh ... That chick that Rhage hated? I can't recall her name.


Dhfan4life Could be. Has been such a long time since I have read the other books. But if you were thinking of someone that was at one of the clubs they used to go to. Then we might be on the right track.


Keeley I never questioned it myself to much becaus I just presumed he was never born and his younger memory's were made up just like he was, he believes them to be real and that's it. That's why he conveniently has no parents and no one seems to know him before Mary.


Dhfan4life Keeley wrote: "I never questioned it myself to much becaus I just presumed he was never born and his younger memory's were made up just like he was, he believes them to be real and that's it. That's why he conven..."

You pose a interesting synopsis there Keeley. Although given how long lived these guys are. And how much into their own world and view they have about things at times. I feel like they probably wouldn't know HALF their kids out there, that might have been created, since leaving the old country. I mean seriously whoever Wrath's relative is that keeps creating babies is doing a mighty find job of that one, by himself.


Roxyzionhotmail.Com Cool if it was the angel...just luv that guy. Poetic justice to bring Darius back as the polar opposite of his former self.


message 34: by Pamela (last edited May 29, 2017 11:22AM) (new)

Pamela Westfall Carmen wrote: "Okay, so this has been bugging me for YEARS, and no one has answered this question as far as I know (least of all Ward), so I'm just going to try here. Does anyone know (or have an answer from Ward..."

I'm a latecomer to the BDB series. I just finished "The Insider's Guide" and in it Ward wrote (on pg 201) "When Darius is killed and he goes to the Scribe Virgin in the Fade, John Matthew does not exist. But after the SV and Darius strike a deal, the SV steps back in time and plants John Matthew/Darius in that bathroom in the bus station as an infant. John Matthew then develops over the course of those years independently of the vampire world until his destiny brings him into contact with Bella through Mary (after Darius is dead). Technically, John Matthew and Darius co-exist for a period of years but there is no contact between them. A mind bender for sure, but kind of cool."


Vipsania Agrippina Cool! Thanks for pointing out Ward's explanation. I had missed that.


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