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Archive - Outlander on Starz S1 > Episode 12 -Lallybroch

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message 1: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1359 comments I loved Jenny I think her character was portrayed perfectly.


message 2: by Carolyn F. (new)

Carolyn F. | 322 comments I do too Diane. I'm just freaking out about the end of this episode and what I know is going to happen.


message 3: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1359 comments I am surprised we saw BJR's penis. Usually you see anything on a female actress but anything beyond a rear end is strategically omitted on a male actor. Although I believe very few people would have see that seen as sexually intriguing.


message 4: by Carolyn F. (last edited Apr 26, 2015 01:56PM) (new)

Carolyn F. | 322 comments It was hard to see it with his jacket, I kept think that I wasn't really seeing it but nope there it was. FYI I just watched the first Foyle's War and he was on that, it took me awhile to figure it out because he's so young.


Florence of Arabia (florenceofarabia) | 1 comments I was surprised how big Lollybroch was. I pictured it much smaller. More like a large farmhouse.


message 7: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1359 comments Florence of Arabia wrote: "I was surprised how big Lollybroch was. I pictured it much smaller. More like a large farmhouse."

I did too but it always perplexed me how Jamie could be laird and they had such a humble estate. This seems to fit better than my imagination.


message 8: by Vicky (new)

Vicky (librovert) | 155 comments At first, with the BJR scene I wasn't sure I had seen what I saw. I'm not sure if any of you have watched Black Sails on Starz, but there was some much more overt full-frontal nudity of the male variety in that one. It wasn't a sexual scene, but it was a I'm standing here completely naked and not trying to hide anything kind of scene, and Starz didn't hide anything. I've also heard that Spartacus (an older Starz original) had some full-frontal nudity as well, so I'm not shocked that they allowed it. I haven't listened to the podcast myself, but apparently Ron said in the podcast that it was unscripted and they decided to keep it in.

I actually thought it fit really well with the scene. It wasn't a totally overt here's my penis kind of moment, but it had this crudely invasive feeling that screamed BJR. I don't think I would have liked it if it had been Jamie, but I thought it really highlighted the pervasiveness of BJR in contrast to the sensuality and passion that Jamie and Claire have in their sexual encounters.


message 9: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1359 comments Wow unscripted - I am glad I was not the one playing Jenny (can't think of her name)and suddenly Tobias is whipping it out. It did fit the scene and was appropriate for what was happening I would have just been surprised if I were not expecting Tobias to be that fully in character. I rarely watch TV so I have not seen the other Stars shows. I don't have a problem with it as long as it is not just gratuitous.


message 10: by Maureen (new)

Maureen | 59 comments I liked this episode and here are some of my thoughts:
-Jenny didn't quite do it for me. I feel like she made me laugh more in the books, and here it was not as witty. It was just her first episode, so maybe I need to be patient (probably).
-Full frontal caught me off guard but I thought it worked. Love Jenny in that scene because I could sense BJR WANTED her to fight back (to turn him on) and she kept her cool although was visibly disgusted. Carolyn: I think the full frontal was meant to be heard to see, which made it more realistic to me.
-Lallybroch was beautiful! Florence & Diane: I, too, pictured it smaller.
-The mill scene was great. Jaime. dripping. wet.
-My memory of what happens next in the books is getting fuzzy so I'm terribly excited for next week!


message 11: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1359 comments I am always excited for next week whether I remember what comes next or not :)

I liked Jenny in this episode because I cnnot remember her being witty at this point anyway (except with the incident of grabbing Jamie by the balls which I liked better in the book) She was going through a lot of adjustment with Jamie coming back. She had been running Lallybrock and now with out warning here is Jamie and his sasenach wife moving in. Jamie is taking over her place and making decisions and she was not too happy with it though she has to comply. I think this episode did a good job of showing her strength and intelligence as well as her feisty personality. The only part I didn't like was her acting when she was laughing at BJR. It seemed too fake. I know that she was forcing herself to laugh at him to throw him off guard but it just didn't feel authentic. Ian didn't quite feel like Ian to me either but he didn't play too big a role at this point so that can change too.


message 12: by Catherine (new)

Catherine (catherinemb) Just read the funniest recap from here:
http://www.vulture.com/2015/04/outlan...

Best line:
There she makes it very clear to him that she didn’t marry the laird of Lallybroch; she married a sweet-hearted redheaded hunk who should be spending his time doing it with her, not fighting with his sister. Jamie takes this under consideration.


message 13: by Sara (new)

Sara Miller (sarajmiller) | 5 comments I was really disappointed with Jenny. I don't remember her being that nasty in the book. She was feisty sure, but this took it to a whole new level. This was the first episode that I was disappointed in the acting and character portrayal.


message 14: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1359 comments Sara wrote: "I was really disappointed with Jenny. I don't remember her being that nasty in the book. She was feisty sure, but this took it to a whole new level. This was the first episode that I was disappoin..."

What did you see as so nasty compared to the book? It has been two years since I have had a reread of Outlander and I thought this showed her pretty well. I remember the big blow out with Jamie in the book and I thought her temper was justified and accurate.


message 15: by Maureen (last edited Apr 27, 2015 12:26PM) (new)

Maureen | 59 comments I need to reread as well. I feel like in the books there is a scene of them fighting in the hallway at Lallybroch where they are trying to be quiet but almost having an all-out brawl. Their anger at each other was almost silly but definitely sibling-like. I think that is what I missed. But, as I said I could be remembering wrong!!

And I forgot about Ian. I love, love, love Ian so I am crossing my fingers for more character development with him and Claire in the future!!!!


message 16: by Sara (new)

Sara Miller (sarajmiller) | 5 comments I remember her being really feisty with Jamie and having the big blow out with him, but nothing nasty towards Claire. In the books, she leaves the house during the fight and sits outside and that's where she meets Ian. I didn't like the way she treated Claire when she tried to tell Jamie to apologize to his sister, and I also didn't like the way she ignored her at the dinner table. If I remember right in the book, after a day or two Claire and Jenny sit down and are sewing shirts and they are carefully getting to know each other. But I never remember Jenny being so hateful towards Claire in the book. Thoughts?


message 17: by Deanna (new)

Deanna (sacredmoon) | 6 comments You're right Sara that was the way it went down in the book. Sadly, I'm loosing interest in this TV adaption. I'll stick with the books from now on. The Jenny in this episode was VOYAGER Jenny! Not Outlander Jenny.


message 18: by Silvia (new)

Silvia | 2 comments This episode was amazing:) I really love this show:) Jamie is incredible charakter and I am so exited what happen in next episode:) but I really don' t know why she's still wearing a wedding ring from marriage with Frank.... she decided stay so why?????


message 19: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1359 comments She keeps both rings in the book series also. Just because she stayed with Jamie does not mean she does not love and care for Frank. She keeps his ring to honor him and the life she had with him.Somewhere in the future it still exists.


message 20: by Wendy F, biblioholic (new)

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments I had that problem too. Jenny was aloof at first, and we learn later that she wasn't sure she liked Claire but she was very hospitable. The show is portraying her as a serious a bitch. Though I think that might change now.

I also had some problems with the way Jamie was too. He was pretty mean himself. The way he moved into the Laird's room without any compassion, I don't know. I just wasn't very happy this episode.


message 21: by MissSusie (new)

MissSusie | 146 comments Well I think I'd be a pretty big bitch if my brother who I hadn't seen in 4 years returned and immediately called me a whore and not choosy because I must spread my legs for any passing man to be pregnant again! And that scene was right out of the books (except location). It seems to me like Jenny and Claire didn't get close until Young Ian is born and they work together to save Jamie. And they were never really best friends and that just got worse later on.


message 22: by Wendy F, biblioholic (new)

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments No, they were never close and she never held back from going after Jamie at that point. But she was polite to Claire. Distant, but polite.


message 23: by Madeleine (new)

Madeleine Clin | 36 comments In the books, there is a shorter, knock-down drag out shouting match between Jamie and Jenny, and then the figure things out and they are done.
I wasn't thrilled to have things drawn out in the episode, made Jenny seem bitchy and mean, and we didn't see her good side, only heard about it.
Until a magical moment, when she keeps him safe from the redcoats, (switching Grannie McNab for Jenny to do it!) and then you can see her distress when she sees his back. I felt very moved by the graveyard scene. (fyi, would be pretty hard for that much moss to grow in just 4 years, and am surprised its a solitary and large headstone, not a joint one with Ellen and her baby)
So while I didn't like the way it was playing out, in the end it was lovely.

I also think Lallybrook is much larger than in the books, and has servants (instead of just a housekeeper) etc. This may be more realistic.
This episode is much less about Claire, and I hope Ian gets to be drawn out more too, I hope we get to know Ian and Jenny a bit better and get to love them as in the books.

not sure about the previews about the black watch next episode. That also deviates from the books, and I am musing about how that will play into future events.


message 24: by Vanessa Eden (new)

Vanessa  Eden Patton (vanessaeden) | 549 comments I loved the episode! I laughed when Jamie was drunk and told Claire " laird broch turach, that's me". Also when he said his cock was about to snap off was too funny.
I don't know what I think of Jenny because like so many of you, I don't remember her being quiet so mean to Claire or calling her a trollop ( I could be wrong about this because it's been awhile sense I read the book). I am curious as to how her character will grow in the show verses the book.
Over all I really enjoyed this episode. My husband loved it too; he is glued. He even sketched me a picture of jamie, which was so sweet. I'm so glad he likes the series. He is going to start listening to the audio books; or so he says.


message 25: by Carolyn F. (new)

Carolyn F. | 322 comments Vicky wrote: "I actually thought it fit really well with the scene. It wasn't a totally overt here's my penis kind of moment, but it had this crudely invasive feeling that screamed BJR. I don't think I would have liked it if it had been Jamie, but I thought it really highlighted the pervasiveness of BJR in contrast to the sensuality and passion that Jamie and Claire have in their sexual encounters.
"


I felt the same way, I actually thought it added to the scene because it followed the book.


message 26: by Jena (new)

Jena (outlanderfan74) | 49 comments This is the first episode where I've felt disappointed in the portrayal of a character. I usually try to take the show for what it is, and not compare it to the book. But in this case, they really accentuated the "dark" side of Jenny, and to my mind, it made her come across a lot less likeable than she was in the books.
Jamie and Jenny had a big fuss in Outlander, but it was obvious there that they loved each other very much. In this episode, every interaction they had was yelling "strained sibling relationship", and I just don't think it painted Jenny, (or Jamie for that matter), the way they appeared to me in the books.
The show's pretty close to perfect though, at least to me, so overall, not a bad episode, just very different than what I envisioned.


message 27: by Sara (new)

Sara Miller (sarajmiller) | 5 comments Rachel, I agree completely. Jenny is one of my favorite characters in the book, and this episode really didn't capture her character. I'm pretty good about not expecting things to be exactly like the book and to just try to enjoy the show for what it is. But I felt like they focused too much on making Jenny strong and stubborn and ended up losing a huge part of her character. She's so much more than just stubborn in the books.


message 28: by Marie (new)

Marie | 26 comments I was ok with Jenny because Jamie's "homecoming" was so abrupt and assumptive (not to mention this Claire person with him). It was also right before a big and stressful event.
There were two scenes where you get to see that Jenny has a heart and love for her family 1) when she and Claire hide Jamie's clothes -she didn't bat an eye about the decision which, if discovered, would be trouble for her as well as Jamie and 2) when she and Jamie meet at the grave of their father.

Hopefully they will continue to show both sides of Jenny.
And I remember some times that book Jenny really ticked me off :)


message 29: by Diane (new)

Diane (Tvor) | 19 comments Both in the books and series it did seem odd that Jamie didn't know Jenny was married to Ian. Surely news like that would have filtered through to the rest of the MacKenzie clan over four years so that someone would have mentioned it to him while they were staying at Leoch at least. And why wouldn't he have asked? He certainly heard the rumour that she had a baby and assumed it was Jack Randall's so why wouldn't he have heard the rest? But never mind, I'm loving the series and I think they're doing an excellent job of adapting the books.


message 30: by Meagan (new)

Meagan (irishrose1920) | 10 comments I agree with Rachel & Sara. I was a little disappointed with the portrayal of Jenny. She didn't seem as welcoming as I thought I remembered her being in the book and seemed more like the Jenny in "Voyager"


message 31: by Maureen (new)

Maureen | 59 comments Diane wrote: "Both in the books and series it did seem odd that Jamie didn't know Jenny was married to Ian. Surely news like that would have filtered through to the rest of the MacKenzie clan over four years so ..."

I thought about this too. It would've been news that the "head" of Lallybroch in Jamie's absence got married. It definitely would've traveled throughout the clans. Especially since in the books they make it seem like a very important route into the mountains... Right? I think I am remembering the last part correctly.


message 32: by Tina (new)

Tina | 162 comments I have to say I absolutely love the show. I love the characters, I love the settings, I love how they are adapting the book to tv. I try to remember that they can't put in everything that I want from this beloved book. They have to develop characters quickly, unfortunately, because they only have 8 episodes to finish the book.

After saying that, I have to say that I do wish they would have developed Jamie and Jenny's relationship a little better. They do show the stubberness of each one at each other, and they do show the how much they do love each other at the grave scene but... There was one part in the book when Jenny sees Jamie's back:

"It looks as though it hurt"
"It did"
"Did you cry?"
"Yes"
"So did I. Every day since they took you away"

I wish that scene was done.


message 33: by Sara (new)

Sara Miller (sarajmiller) | 5 comments Tina, I had forgotten all about that conversation. That would have been great if they could have added that at the grave scene. Even though I was disappointed with Jenny, I have hope I'll come around and like her in the next episodes.
And I've wondered about why Jamie didn't know about Ian and Jenny as well. Does Dougal have some agenda in telling Jamie that Jenny had Jack Randall's baby? Certainly Dougal would have known the truth.


message 34: by Diane (last edited May 01, 2015 08:13PM) (new)

Diane | 1359 comments If you have read the series you may be able to understand how Jamie didn't know about Jenny and Ian because (view spoiler)


message 35: by Nadia (new)

Nadia (tribalrose) | 57 comments Tina wrote: "I have to say I absolutely love the show. I love the characters, I love the settings, I love how they are adapting the book to tv. I try to remember that they can't put in everything that I want fr..."

I too had forgotten that small piece of dialogue, Tina!
Thank you... and yes, I agree that should have slipped in somewhere.
Nonetheless, totally feel the same way as you Tina, re: the way its been adapted to the big screen. Thrilling!

Found this lovely fan clip. Thought I'd share...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r613s...


message 36: by Maureen (new)

Maureen | 59 comments Diane wrote: "If you have read the series you may be able to understand how Jamie didn't know about Jenny and Ian because [spoilers removed]"

Very plausible Diane.


message 37: by Cindy (new)

Cindy Spreiter | 5 comments I agree with Tina - There was one part in the book when Jenny sees Jamie's back:

"It looks as though it hurt"
"It did"
"Did you cry?"
"Yes"
"So did I. Every day since they took you away"

I thought that was very poignant in the book. The BJR scene was so brutal, great acting on both their parts. I heard on the podcast that the full frontal was not in the script but he just did it. I thought it was a great addition showing that he was not able to "get ready". Loved drunk Jamie! Very funny!


message 38: by Madeleine (new)

Madeleine Clin | 36 comments Diane wrote: "Both in the books and series it did seem odd that Jamie didn't know Jenny was married to Ian. Surely news like that would have filtered through to the rest of the MacKenzie clan over four years so ..."

SO, remember, when Clair meets up with the MacKenzie's, Jamie had just returned from France, getting over that head wound. What he knows is what Dougal told him. Dougal wanted to keep him away from Lallybroch as he is scheming to get control of those lands.
SO, NO Jaime avoided contact with Lallybroch and Jenny in his shame for "causing" his father's death and for Jenny's shame, mistaken though he is.


message 39: by Mary (new)

Mary (poetsdream) | 196 comments Maureen wrote: "I liked this episode and here are some of my thoughts:
-Jenny didn't quite do it for me. I feel like she made me laugh more in the books, and here it was not as witty. It was just her first episode..."

I agree, I think Laura is playing her too tough. Jenny is tough but she also has great warmth and humor. I didn't see that in her performance. Perhaps it's the script, they cut out a lot of the tender moments with her and Ian, and her and Jamie. I'd like to see the other side of Jenny too.


message 40: by Mrsbooks (last edited Jul 16, 2015 12:53PM) (new)

Mrsbooks | 398 comments This episode was kind of weird to me.

I loved Jenny. I thought she was spot on to how I imagined her. I think she perhaps appeared a little more abrasive because they had to take out so many of her "softer" scenes because they just weren't as important to the story. In the book we see both and in this we just saw one. I thought her and Jamie's interaction was quite amusing.

And the contention between Jenny and Claire seemed a lot more realistic in this than it did in the book. However I think Jenny let a lot of her anger or whatever bad emotion she had towards Claire "go" in the book because Claire told her she had no intention of taking over the running of the estate. She was happy to continue her healing and Jenny could keep doing what she was doing. That didn't happen in this episode.

Lollybroch was not AT ALL what I pictured it as. I, like others here, pictured a farm house. A very large farm house though. But I thought Lollybroch in the episode looked more like a Victorian house.

I was disappointed with Ian. The acting was great. But he wasn't what I pictured at all. I had in my head someone thin, tall and lanky. Also, didn't have the long hair in a pony tail but maybe I just missed that somehow in the book.


message 41: by Lauren (new)

Lauren | 65 comments Having read the first book after watch the TV series, I actually thought the episode did justice to the initial frosty relations between Claire and Jenny. They thaw out beautifully in the next two episodes - The Watch and The Search. The time spent at Lallybroch is much shorter on the TV show compared to the "months" that were spent farming and preparing the estate for the coming war and famine. Others are correct - it's not really all that important to the general plot especially when you're talking about compressing it for screen adaptation (specifically into a one-hour episode). Plus it's a great set-up for "The Watch" episode with some good changes that eliminate and unnecessary character and create an opportunity for Claire and Jenny to truly bond.

If you've read the series, then you know what ends up happening in Voyager between Jenny and Claire. This episode actually plays into that future story line well.


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