The Shadows (Black Dagger Brotherhood, #13) The Shadows discussion


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The Shadows: spoiler-rific rants and praises

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message 1: by Brooklyn (last edited Apr 24, 2015 01:55PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Brooklyn Ann I couldn't find any discussion threads open to the public so I started one. I've pasted my review here:

I actually liked this one better than THE KING. However, I've noticed that I have many dissenting opinions from that of many BDB fans. (I think Wrath & Beth are boring (except for their pets), I love Jane, and my current favorite subplot is Assail & Sola, to name a few).

Anyway, the thing about The Shadows that pissed a lot of readers off didn't bother me as badly. Yes, I bawled like a baby, but I also was reminded in some ways of HAROLD & MAUDE, one of my favorite movies. I like that, although sad, there was closure and character growth.

I LOVED that there were finally some Rhage & Mary scenes. And how his experience gave him more insight with Trez's conflict. However... well, we'll get to that when I list my dislikes.

Manny was funny and Xhex's brief appearance was nice. Yeah, I'm a total Xhex fan. Assail did something pretty badass... though I'm bummed at some of his decisions.

The Band of Bastards had an interesting turn in their arc and I'm on the edge of my seat for the Xcor/Layla situation to come to a head.

I love that there was some Rhev!

And Fritz was a total Badass.

Now for my dislikes:

I feel that THE BIG SAD broke precedent... not in the PNR/UF divide that some are complaining about, but that there had been solutions to similar problems before.

This still could have gone better if TWO possible sources of a solution were approached (one of them was standing RIGHT f*cking there and no one even considered it) the other had been turned to more than once in previous books. Hell, even Rhage thought of that one more than once!

If there had just been some explanation of why those sources wouldn't work in this case, I would have been happier.

I hate that Elhena is just in the background... though I guess I should be grateful that she was at least mentioned.

Everybody's inconsistent dialogue style. I've always been annoyed as hell at all of the Brothers talking like wannabe 90's hip-hop singers, but this book also had so many characters vacillating between old-school speech, tween-text-talk, and 90's Valley Girl.

Xcor does something absolutely squicky that makes me want to punch him.

iAM's romance was sweet but NOT given enough time and attention that it deserves. I really think it would have been better to stretch that arc out into at least two books.

NONE of the ladies got any oral. I don't know why that bugged me in this one, but it did.

So, despite my issued with the story, I couldn't put it down and I'm salivating for the next.

What did you like and what bothered you? What do you look forward to happening next?


Dhfan4life HA! I didn't even notice the no chicks getting oral.

I saw the writing on the wall with Selena dying. Loved how she and Layla were standing up for what they wanted. Still hated how scared Xcor was and let Layla go though.

I'm beyond used to the shellans in the background. So was no nevermind to me about Ehlena and all them. What stood out most to me was how much more away from the house Mary was. To the point that even Rhage was like "woman I'm dating my left hand over here. where the hell you at?"

Nothing too new on the rapper talk. Par for the course of the hip hop culture. And clearly for Ward that is the ultimate in "masculinity". What got me is how Rhage was even more of a frat boy in this and I sorta got comic relief from it at first. But then I just wanted to throttle him.

Saw the writing on the wall with iAM falling for the princess. However for all that went down. Man how I hated that the princess read as if she had no personality whatsoever. Same way with Paradise. And it really makes me want to throttle Ward for not stepping up her writing game for females. Cause how can you write first a pivotal and important female character with less "life" than a throw rug. And Paradise is supposed to be her main character in the other series. And I still feel like I don't really know much about her all that much.

I was happy when Layla found out she was going to have twins. That way if she and Xcor did finally get together. Well they could raise one and Qhuinn and Blay could raise the other. But everyone and their uncle ending up as a twin was ridiculous.

And honestly I wasn't bummed when Selena died. I mean come to think of it, was bound to happen to somebody eventually. And with nobody really mating with the chosen that is supposed to have over the years. I wouldn't blame the SV for not having enough juice to save Selena. Even if she really wanted to.

Fritz is totally my butler, along with Alfred. Oh and can I throw out there. That I'm over these dudes, for all the "toughness" they have lose their shit so damn fast and so quick. It is ridiculous. And always want to run from it. I'm more than a little over that.

Side note to all this, what the hell is up with being such a man you don't even want soft towels to use in the gym? Are you kidding me? That just read so asinine to me.


Brooklyn Ann LOL, I forgot about the towels! It was like "It MUST be like high school PE or it's not hardcore enough!"

Yeah, Rhage was kinda comic relief for me. I wonder if the "Mary is always away" thing was an attempt to justify her absence in the previous books.

As for my irritation with the rapper-speak, I know it's been around since day one, I AM used to it, but I've been dying to express my dislike of it out loud. :D

And I SO agree with the annoying things they do because they're "tough."

And twins! Twins EVERYWHERE even though they're so RARE! Ugh. But I DO like your idea of Layla and Quinn each having one.


Dhfan4life I could see that about Mary and Marissa. But still no excuse for why WE the readers can't see inside safe place too. Just so we have a 360 on things.

I hear ya. I did notice she slacked up on the shitkicker speak too. So that should please some folks as well.

What also is irritating the shit out of me, is that she keeps killing off the opposition for the vamps. I mean I get some readers say they don't like the lesser really. Well I can get that, but at the same time, I feel like you should still have a good balance between the good and bad side. So it's not just all vamp days of our lives and turns into a soap opera kind of thing, ya know?

Yea, although I'm sure Qhuinn be like, don't you dare let one of those bastards touch one of my kids. But that be kind of hypocritical given that his own family couldn't stand him for something he had no control over either.

And in general I don't know what I want to happen to Luhcas, but something has gotta give.


message 5: by Kathryn (last edited Apr 24, 2015 07:19PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kathryn Well, I have been dying to talk about this book. My first thing is I was soooooo happy the Selena died. I know that's mean, but Trez deserved it. ( I'll explain later)

Iam was cheated out of a story. She said that both would get their HEA however, I KNEW she was going to make Iam get with the princess and I was prepared to hate it but the way she wrote it was ok. But, his story was still secondary to what was happening to Trez. That irritated me.

IMO, NO WAY IN HELL BETTER WARD LET XCOR HAVE ONE OF THOSE BABIES!!!!! I'm just saying. Layla is still an idiot and I'm sick of her.

I was wondering about all the Rhage, but that was just a set-up for the next book.

Sorry, Brooklyn but I hate Assail and I could care less if he ever appears again. I happen to think however, that one of his cousins is Saxton's mate so unfortunately we have to deal with them for a little bit.

I wish that there would be more fighting etc. It is becoming a soap opera of sorts.

Paradise did not strike a chord with me period. Because she says that Butch is the focal point Brother I will read it.

Now back to Trez. He has been an asshole so to speak for 200 years. I really like him, but I don't feel like he deserved true happiness, because he f****d up his brothers life over and over without a care in the world or a care about how it was affecting iAM. So, in the end when he finally realized he needed to do something for his brother, he finally grew up. As usual the princess was a non-entity. Boring just like the chosen and all the shellans. But that is another story.


Brooklyn Ann Kathryn wrote: "Well, I have been dying to talk about this book. My first thing is I was soooooo happy the Selena died. I know that's mean, but Trez deserved it. ( I'll explain later)

Iam was cheated out of a ..."


Oh, I SO get your point about Trez deserving it. It really gave his character growth.

And that's fine. You can hate Assail. :D I hate his disgusting coke habit. It makes me gag every time he snorts. He needs to get around Sola and her grandma soon or I'm going to be too grossed out to root for him, lol.

Really though the vast differences of opinions is why I admire this series so much. It takes something to make the reader care one way or another.

And DH fan, oooh, a peek into Safe Place would be so much more interesting than the guys man-crying into their Grey Goose and hookers.


Dhfan4life Thank you for saying that about Trez, Kathryn. Cause there were some moments that I liked about Trez at times. But then you learn more about him, and I just want to run him over like somebody in grand theft auto. His relationship with iAM totally reminded me of Phury and Z all over again. And he only got mild points for me, in regards to somewhat checking up on his brother at times. But still what a douche at times.

Layla is just a woman for doing things for the cause of her people. So she was a sheep, til she started going after what she wanted. And I liked that. I think if she never did, she wouldn't be worth her vagina really.

Assail is just so loss right now. I don't think he could even find himself. Do I want him to? I don't know. But unless they find out some how or other Sola is related to Wrath too and get her transformed like they did Butch, I don't know how all that will work.

Yea, Rhage is going through something. Funny how she waited this long to have him flip off like this. I mean I would think he would be the first. Cause I still felt his "beast" got tamed waaaaaay too fast with Mary. And with no background. I wanted more from him. Other than a backgroundless fighter.


Dhfan4life Brooklyn wrote: "Kathryn wrote: "Well, I have been dying to talk about this book. My first thing is I was soooooo happy the Selena died. I know that's mean, but Trez deserved it. ( I'll explain later)

Iam was c..."


YESSSS!!!! I'm so over the dudes working it out with some alcohol and a good chest beating. I mean we already know what they are going to be doing. Give us something with more depth eventually.


Brooklyn Ann Dhfan4life wrote: "Thank you for saying that about Trez, Kathryn. Cause there were some moments that I liked about Trez at times. But then you learn more about him, and I just want to run him over like somebody in gr..."

I like Layla too. Really, I like the Chosen when they want something for themselves. And I'm getting sick of Ward's excuse of "I suck at writing women."
I think she does just fine when they want something.

As for Sola, I wouldn't be surprised if a magical loophole happens... which will make much of the fandom shriek in rage ...and give me maniacal giggles of joy. Because sometimes I'm evil like that.

Funny thing is, if it were me I'd have more issues with his coke habit than him being a vampire. But I doubt Ward will go that way, especially given other characters' token protests to things like prostitution.

However, I'm so stoked that it looks like we MIGHT get more background on Rhage.


Chelsea Warning: I am not going to talk in riddles. So if you don't want spoilers, then stop reading right now.

Just wanted to throw in my theory for why she killed off Selena (and why I am okay with it.) She has done the Hail Scribe Virgin thing in the past and had the SV bring back Mary and Jane, but in both of those scenarios it was a member of her race making an epic sacrifice to bring the person they love most back. In the case of Selena, her true love is Trez, but he's a Shadow, not one of the Scribe Virgin's flock. There was no one willing to make an ultimate sacrifice that the SV could use to balance the scales and save Selena. Instead, she did the only thing she could and brought Trez to Selena to make sure that she made the most of the limited time she had left. This would also explain why she wasn't just able to heal all the previous Chosen that died of this disease.


Kathryn Chelsea seeing as though V is my fav, his momma gave him the big shaft!!!! That still ticks me off. I want him to get another shellan so bad that I can taste it.
Absolutely love your theory about the SV not saving Selena because Trez is a Shadow. Makes perfect sense, but since Shadows & Sympaths came from vampires don't they sort of belong to her??


Brooklyn Ann Chelsea wrote: "Warning: I am not going to talk in riddles. So if you don't want spoilers, then stop reading right now.

Just wanted to throw in my theory for why she killed off Selena (and why I am okay with it..."


^^See, this could work. If the Scribe Virgin could have freakin' SAID something along those lines, it would have been easier to swallow.

Kathryn, good point, but I think the author forgets that, or, they're like her figurative stepchildren that are beneath her notice.

And this makes me want to declare another thing that's been on my mind for many books. The Scribe Virgin is the lamest deity ever.


message 13: by ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ (last edited Apr 25, 2015 07:22AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

 ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ Well, I'm totally shocked that I ended up loving this one. This was my make or break book with the Bdb. And though certain things I knew would happen before they were penned, I did like how they played out. Honestly loved every aspect of this book. Which shocked the ever lovin hell out of me, so I'm still on board the bdb train at least for the next installment. And I already had decided that I would be reading the spin off before the Shadows came out. I'm mainly reading the 1st book for Butch. But after reading a bit more about Paradise and Craeg, I want to know more. Especially about Craeg. Dude has my attention.


message 14: by Chelsea (last edited Apr 25, 2015 10:36AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Chelsea Kathryn wrote: "Chelsea seeing as though V is my fav, his momma gave him the big shaft!!!! That still ticks me off. I want him to get another shellan so bad that I can taste it.
Absolutely love your theory abo..."



My thoughts are that because the Shadows don't pray to her anymore (at least, not that was revealed), it would kind of make sense that they are no longer under her "dominion" even if they originated in the same evolutionary branch. Kind of like Gaiman's American Gods; the old Gods are still around but their level of power is dependent on the belief/worship placed in them.


Dhfan4life Brooklyn wrote: "Dhfan4life wrote: "Thank you for saying that about Trez, Kathryn. Cause there were some moments that I liked about Trez at times. But then you learn more about him, and I just want to run him over ..."

Finally someone else saying they aren't loving Ward's excuses about writing women. It's very flimsy, considering she is in the ROMANCE market of all things. Where there is always some chicks to be written about, from PNR to contemporary. Really no excuse after a while. Not like we are THAT hard of a sex to write for.

Yea, where there is a will or maybe a twist there is a way at times. So Ward could have something in the works for Assail and Sola we don't know about it. But I agree with you about him being a heavy drug user be far more of an issue than the vamping it up.

I really hope it does open things up more about Rhage. I hated how she gave him a pretty face, a frat boy excuse to get the beast and then NADA. So clearly Ward has a problem with writing for really attractive people too at times I take it, lol.


Dhfan4life Chelsea wrote: "Warning: I am not going to talk in riddles. So if you don't want spoilers, then stop reading right now.

Just wanted to throw in my theory for why she killed off Selena (and why I am okay with it..."


This does make sense. I still say too, that SV just doesn't have the juice that she used to. I mean since Wrath and V having came to her those few times. And nobody is making babies with the Chosen any more. The power she probably gets off of that is slowly killing her. As more of the generations move away from believing in her. Which totally has to suck.


Dhfan4life Chelsea wrote: "Kathryn wrote: "Chelsea seeing as though V is my fav, his momma gave him the big shaft!!!! That still ticks me off. I want him to get another shellan so bad that I can taste it.
Absolutely love..."


I second your thoughts. Given the Sympaths and s'Hisbe sorta evolved from the SV's original design. They no doubt came up with their own belief systems that didn't quite ascribe to that of the SV at all. And not like they are part of her brotherhood game plan either.

Besides, how I read it, sounded like something that was bred into the Chosen, the illness. So could have likely came from one of the much older brothers.


Kathryn I am going to stick with the series. I actually did like the book. Craeg seemed interesting but as usual Paradise was just a "pretty" shell. If Ward does not start taking time to develop the females as more than lap dogs and receptacles for hot and heavy sex then she is failing her fans.

I understand that the brothers are the focal point, but they might as well all be gay then we wouldn't have to deal with the women. Even Manny in his limited appearance has more personality than all the women sans Xhex. She's still a b***h, but her small scenes seemed to stand out with me.

Side note here: It seems that she went out of her way to do the Blay & Qhuinn book then nothing, they just appear sparingly in the background to Layla which sucks in my book. At this point, I need for Xcor to just get injured already and for everyone to see how much he looks like Thor so we can move on with the Layla/Xcor love story. The sneaking around after everything that they have done for her makes me want to just B***h slap her into next week. Qhuinn has been so good to her yet she keeps lying and sneaking around.

Either she needs to come clean or turn rogue. I'd actually prefer if she went into labor and then got disenchanted with the BDB and left to be a bad girl. That would be a fantastic plot twist. I know it won't happen but it would be fun. :)

I just re-read where Brooklyn said none of the women got oral!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That is all for now.


Dhfan4life Exactly. I mean I'm not usually one to get on a soap box and tell a writer how to write. Or we as women should unite. And yet at the same time, I think she is just doing a disservice to her books if she never truly gives the women a chance to do/be something worthwhile. Or as you said Kathryn, the dudes mine as well be gay. Cause there is indeed the saying of a strong woman behind the man. But if she is so far back up in the closet and you see more Fritz than her. Well then there is a prob there.

I still like Xhex, she was playing her part well. I still would love to see the freaking hair curlers that was used to curl Selena's hair. Cause from what I recalled of it being so long it was down to her waist. What kind of machines was Marissa using?

I know it may see that Qhuinn and Blay are in the background to Layla. But I think it's always been in reverse. I mean ever since she was sent there to them. Layla has been the bear rug nobody has had no clue as to what to do with at all. And even the door mat so many times. I mean I give the dudes props for doing what they do. But I'm soooo over how they find so many reasons to be like "oh the revenant chosen, so pretty, so need to be protected. But get the hell away from me if you even think to want something more than lending a vein to feed me cause I can't feed from my own shellan.". Ugh, I want to smack Ward left and right for that alone. How dare she make a character nothing more than a feeding trough.

Had to go through that first initial pregnancy scare on her own and get to Havers. No mate to love and support her. Even when she knew that Qhuinn was in love with Blay. She wanted to have something of her own with a child, even give him one in return. And he still doesn't offer to spend much time with her or anything it seems. It's just like I got my babies, my man, what do I need you for Layla? Oh wait get on your hands and knees, I forgot I need a foot stool. Oh wait, are you looking a little pale? Well I guess I could spare a wrist, just don't take too much. I gotta screw Blay later with even less lube than before. And that is what irks me so bad sometimes about the guys. They are so tough they are A holes at times. And although I know you don't enjoy the sneaking around Kathryn. I love it. Cause I'm sooo very over Layla just being left alone, to only have a few occasional people pop in on her like "welp, the "fish" isn't dead yet, time to bounce and do something REAL with my time." I mean, why even have the Chosen, if nobody really wants much to do with them? A waste of character space.

And I think maybe eventually she might have gone rogue perhaps. But Xcor, cut things off before time. We shall see how it goes though. I want them together though. Both deserve some happiness.

Didn't I see back in was it Payne's book or someone else's I can't even recall right now. That it was said that Xcor and Throe wasn't related? Cause it was something about Throe sticking around for his sister's ashes. And Xcor had long given them away or something or other. Gah, my memory sucks so bad sometimes.


Kathryn DH Xcor and Tohrment are brothers. I just spelled it wrong. Ever since Wrath decreed that only Tohr could kill Xcor the writing has been on the wall. So, since most of her fans have brains and have figured out the relationship and the reason that Tohr won't be able to kill him, get on with it.

She has taken all surprises or anything away from the Layla/Xcor story IMO. If she let Xcor and Layla do it and then have her br pregnant with twins that would have been an excellent plot twist. Instead they come with some BS that one twin waits or whatever the hell she said. At this point only the Brotherhood and the "shells" will be shocked when she declares her love for him. Obviously somehow Throe is going to be the one to spill the beans to Wrath and then when the BDB gets pissed she'll go into labor almost die, have a hysterectomy, never be able to give Xcor young and then Blay will ask for her to be forgiven.

In the meantime another chosen has to step up to feed all these ungrateful mofo's who can't feed from their shellans. Hopefully, it won't be an eros cause that story is just DUMB!!!! I'm trained because you're in love I can't be used.

Side-Rant: Does V feed? Once again, my ever loving hope that he finds another could come out of a new chosen showing up. I know that won't happen but you almost hope. Since feeding is in some ways sexual one of them slips up and just goes for it. That would be a fantastic storyline. Then being A holes that they are, say the law allows me to have more than one shellan or something like that and then tell their mate to just deal.


Dhfan4life Kathryn wrote: "DH Xcor and Tohrment are brothers. I just spelled it wrong. Ever since Wrath decreed that only Tohr could kill Xcor the writing has been on the wall. So, since most of her fans have brains and ha..."

Oh, the way you had spelled it I thought you meant somebody else. And that well could be. I agree that Throe will give it away some how anyway about X and Layla. He is being such a spiteful SOB lately. Though I still kind of half expect him to do something to Paradise too, just because.

Oh could never have it go that way. Cause for a set of folks that could give diddly squat about respectabilities at times. There is always that little add in about the reverence of NEVER getting it on while pregnant. Or how on "High" the chosen are and yet they are trained to be sexual servants? Along with everything else. Or Phury doing the ask for forgiveness. Oh my god, I almost choked on a cracker at the thought of Wrath standing there asking if Layla has to get her "junk removed now too" LOL. That'd be one epic scene for the ages haha. I still can't believe he called Beth's sexual organs "junk", oh my goodness.

EXACTLY!!! And what kills me is that these uber macho dudes actually RUN from the Eros! That is why I was like get it Selena and Layla. Hell I have never seen such grown folks running from a little sex. All cause they would NEVER EVER do anything to please the SV.

Yea, V feeds, he and Rhage were actually using Selena and Layla a lot before pregnancy for one. And well before Trez started wanting to ring some necks for the other. But yea they fed alright. Even had the balls to say "dude, I'm done with her. Better catch one of em before that ask Fritz to feed and look after em for the nite." Just ugh!!!


Kathryn Throe is a B***H!!!! I have a feeling he's going to try to undermine Abalone & do something to Paradise too. But, you know he's going to worm his way to an audience with the King and somehow accidently say that Layla & Xcor have been secretly meeting.

I hope they let Qhuinn beat his a**. In a fantastic twist why not draft s'Ex and let him behead the Mofo. Somehow I have a feeling we will seeing more of his character.

It is quite hilarious that these bad a** dudes are SCARED of the coochie!!!! I was not mad at Layla or Selena for asking and or taking what they wanted. It's just that Phury "freed" them like 3 yrs ago now so why are they still so cult like??????

Maybe in the new series they will get a set of unmated youngsters that take advantage of ALL the chosen have to offer. They don't have to mate, but hell they could get their freak on.

Maybe when Muhrder shows up he'll F**k 'em all. That could make up for lost time for him. (hehehehehehe)


Dhfan4life To be honest, I thought when he was doing the whole GPS thing, I thought hew as tracking down where Paradise was. And when there was a knock at the door, I totally thought it was him coming to kidnap her or something. I just totally don't like him going on his own. At least with X and co. they knew where he was at. Going rogue he could be plotting anything at any time...

Yea, it would be great to see more of s'Ex in action. He definitely seemed to have so much more in store for him. And as "king", he has enough freedom to truly go where and how he pleases these days. I still feel so bad for him losing his daughter over some shit with Catrina's mom. :(

True, but have to remember that I think the majority of the Chosen still don't know much about the world. I mean the most they know is vacuums, that camp, and still back up to where they came from. We haven't really seen them out on the town or anything. Which is beyond sad. And why I was so into Selena getting out and seeing that restaurant and having that crazy car chase with Fritz and what not. Cause for all of those 3 years the brothers been treating them like insta-take out, but nobody has really offered to TAKE THEM OUT. See something besides what they have been for so long.

And that would be beyond great if the new students come in and want to show the Chosen around. I mean they people too. Not just big macs in robes.

Honestly that is what I was hoping for with Mhurder showing up. I mean we already know he has no shame in his tapping it game at B and B's. So why not give back to your people?


message 24: by Kara (new) - added it

Kara Ok I have been super excited for Xcor and Layla's book until he end of this book... How if he is bonded with Layla does he sleep with other woman? No thanks not so excited anymore for there book...


Dhfan4life Kara wrote: "Ok I have been super excited for Xcor and Layla's book until he end of this book... How if he is bonded with Layla does he sleep with other woman? No thanks not so excited anymore for there book..."

I think a bond is just sort of an emotional reaction to their potential mate. BUT til they are officially claimed as their own. Then they are both free parties in the way of their belief system. Also in their belief system he isn't even a male of "worth" for her and not even close to being in her league. But actual prostitutes is open to everybody when they need them apparently.


message 26: by ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ (last edited Apr 27, 2015 02:32PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

 ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ Kara wrote: "Ok I have been super excited for Xcor and Layla's book until he end of this book... How if he is bonded with Layla does he sleep with other woman? No thanks not so excited anymore for there book..."

Yeah he's not fully bonded to Layla. Not yet. And his own sense of self worth or lack thereof, is still pretty strong & deeply rooted within him. He's trying his hardest to not let the bonding take anymore than it already has with Layla, cos of their situations & "stations" etc.. So it totally makes sense why he was able to have meaningless sex with a prostitute.

Plus, all males can have more than one Shellan so whether they're bonded or not, I believe they can still have sex with another female IF the desire is there to do so... Don't forget Phury, he slightly bonded to Bella too, but he was still able to let her go and eventually get his own Shellan & fully bond to her.


Dhfan4life ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ wrote: "Kara wrote: "Ok I have been super excited for Xcor and Layla's book until he end of this book... How if he is bonded with Layla does he sleep with other woman? No thanks not so excited anymore for..."

Although if they did still step out on their shellan(s) like that. I say the Shellan(s), should have the right to go Lorena Bobbitt. I mean it's one thing to be playing sister wives. But to STILL go after the hired ho, then it's on in my book! But guess that is why I wasn't made a vamp, lol.


 ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ Dhfan4life wrote: Although if they did still step out on their shellan(s) like that. I say the Shellan(s), should have the right to go Lorena Bobbitt. I mean it's one thing to be playing sister wives. But to STILL go after the hired ho, then it's on in my book! But guess that is why I wasn't made a vamp, lol. ."

LMBO! IKR?
For many reasons I think it's unfair, but what's jacked is cos the males are more "Possessive & territorial" the females typically don't get to have more than one mate. Unless it's on the true Down Low. & with their sense of smell, I don't see how this could work anyway.

But the males, whether they are bonded to one or not, they can have several Shellans if they so choose.
SO EFFIN WRONG!


Dhfan4life EXACTLY!!! By far one of the craziest displays of keeping the female "purity" protected, I've ever seen. That is why I figure if you are going to mate somebody, that should just be two people. You can't have anybody else, unless somebody dies!


Kathryn Well, JANE is DEAD in my book, so V can have a new shellan!!!!!!! We all know that in Ward's world the females are secondary.

I just want to see something different in the books. Based on how she writes, the women would just take it and be sister wives. Except for maybe Xhex who would bust a cap in a B***h. (hehehehehehehehehehe)

As for Xcor & Layla they have to take the long road like Qhuinn and Blay. Xcor thinks he is dirty and Layla is so pure. ( That is one thing that is annoying, she puts them up on a pedestal and then they are treated like spun glass. ) When they have the nerve to ask for something they are looked at like they are crazy.

I wish that one of the chosen would go to work as a Dominatrix or something or start f*****g some humans up in The Shadows club. Get there freak on without guilt. That would be freakin awesome to read. have some of the BDB catch one in the act and be totally shocked!!!!!


Dhfan4life Ok, to be PC, I meant dead as in a grave, or was in a funeral fire. And not doing surgery on someone in the next half a second, lol. Cause clearly V can still use his special hand and "play" for hours with his imaginary friend and Ward is just fine, lol.

Oh they would anyway. Cause the brothers could never stop and think there might be another side to consider. So it would be more needless back forth between the B.O.B. and the brothers. Til somebody or something vital gets hurt and then everybody comes together and share a couple of Chosen necks and it's all good. No kidding. Any man that doesn't buy his own draws and his butler does it for him, yep, that is not someone to put on a pedestal to me.

LMAO!!! YESSSS!!!! I would sooooo love that Kathryn. Be my wet dream come true. Cause I want the brothers to go in there and see that and be like oh my goodness, I didn't know the Chosen could back it up like that. Hot damn. Although they might all turn tail and run be like "my eyes, oh my eyes!!!" Haha.


 ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ LMBO! Y'all siily!

But K, I'm with you.. Jane is DEAD dammit. V is fair game for another REAL & ALIVE good & true Shellan :D

I ALWAYS come back to this whenever we are talking about the bonding etc.. but what if Bella chose Phury? Can you imagine how different the series would be? Part of me was hoping she did. But then again, if I were Bella, I wouldn't be able to choose. I'd be like "Can I have both of y'all?"

It would be the 1st mating/bonding of it's kind in their world. Two Brothers by blood & Brotherhood are bonded/mated to the same female. Since they both bonded to Bella anyway.. What if it did go further on Phury's side? Would he & Z have killed each other? Or come to a tense truce of sorts for the sake of their Shellan?

I'm so cruel cos I would have loved to see this play out like that ;D


Dhfan4life It's the things the Warden does to us after a while.

Hey I'm not going to knock a over grown vamp that likes to play with his imaginary friends. Goes to show even grown men still have them. ;)

Yea, the series be vastly different. And it would unfortunately never work out that way with Bella wanting them both. Cause as we talked about it before Princess. These dudes are FAR too possessive and territorial to EVER share a female. And as over the top Z is, he wouldn't have agreed to a truce, EVER. Probably would have gone so far as to kill Phury and Phury wouldn't really agree with it anyway. Cause he spent so much of his life giving away to and giving in to Z. Riding that wave of being the evil second born. There is just no way that could have worked out.

The only way it would some how work out, would be if it was Trez and iAM sharing a woman maybe. I mean there was still a degree of respect between them. But even in the Shadows that even told how it still wouldn't fully work out if they were to share either. Cause even Trez only allowed iAM as the only male to be around Selena when she was first all froze up like that. Because he knew that his brother would NEVER even DREAM, THINK, EXPRESS a single notion of an ideal of touching his woman. So sharing in this world just sure as hell ain't gonna happen for these dudes.

But yet again, their peter's can go a roving where ever they wish.


 ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ Bummer :(

LOL


Kathryn Haha a threesome would be an awesome plot twist. A dominatrix,a brother and their b***h! Hehehe.

Side-note, have any of ya'll wondered why V & Rhage have "human" mates, but everyone else got a vamp? I was talking about this with my cousin. V is the smartest & one of the most badass and Rhage is the best fighter. It seems they got the weakest mates in a way.


Dhfan4life Well Jane and her super intellect surpasses her humanness and death. And I guess that just mentally gave him a hard on for life. We see how the female vamps are, save for Xhex, many of them are so far back in yester year behind their men, that I guess only the uncouth artifice of a human would keep V's interest. Folks can say what they will, but he had an eyeful with Butch too and still does and he started out as human too.

Rhage, I think that was just totally meant to be the beauty and the beast story. Someone as soft and gentle as Belle, er I mean Mary, can sooth the savage beast inside the oh so beautiful wrapper. And it was so cinematically touching. I guess the real tug at the heart strings couple out of all of them.


message 37: by ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ (last edited Apr 29, 2015 05:47AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

 ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ V needs a human woman like me... And if I wasn't so scared of his a&& I'd hop on him ;D

But I agree Rhage & Mary are the perfect yin & yang couple of the series. Beauty & the Beast. It worked. I loved their story. And I'm happy they got their HEA with one another. As far as strength vs. weakness goes though, I think Mary is a pretty strong female. She may not be strong in the physical sense, but what she's gone through before Rhage, with her mom, then herself, but still chose to be a sort of light for others. Helping others. Trying to move on & live her life, that takes strength. And the place she holds now with Rhage & her new family, by extension, what she contributes to them emotionally being a sounding board etc.. and at Safe Place. That takes alot.

I think Mary is actually one of the few strong females in the BDB that we've seen.

I've said it before & I'll say it again. Jane is a waste of space. She doesn't really contribute anything. All this time she still doesn't know much about her Vamp counterparts medically. She ALWAYS has to consult with Havers about something. It's like damn, all this time ur still a babe in this? Why are u here? I don't expect her to know everything Havers does, but she should know a hell of a lot more than what she does considering she's their on call, in house Doc. smh.. I'm still pissed about no one thought to ask Payne anything, even for a brief reprieve for Selena. I know Payne's gift could have help with that at least.


Dhfan4life ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ wrote: "V needs a human woman like me... And if I wasn't so scared of his a&& I'd hop on him ;D

But I agree Rhage & Mary are the perfect yin & yang couple of the series. Beauty & the Beast. It worked. I l..."


Great points about Mary there Princess. Although just saying all that about her, and excuse the following crude terminology here, but it really makes me want to knee Ward in the cooch. Like how in the world can you have a character like Mary, do all of this and be all of these great many things. And still push her out of the spotlight? It makes no sense!

I've come to liken Jane's progress to as far as the dudes will let it grow. I mean she is often telling them what she needs and what she doesn't know. And all they will ever do for her is grudgingly bring Havers in. But as far as they are concerned her skills are on par enough for expertise a little higher than a field nurse. As that is all they ever really seem to want her to do. Patch this, scan that, do a little surgery if you have to and a *insert head pat here* and we are all good. To me that is all signs of not wanting her to advance at all really. I swear if it wasn't for Manny supping up his own ambulance, I doubt Jane would have ever gotten one.


 ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ Exactly.. Manny & Jane.

And I too hate how we don't really get to see enough of Mary etc.. the females in general. But at least with the Shadows we got updates about what they're all doing in passing. I felt better about that.


Dhfan4life True on hearing that Mary and Marissa was at Safe Place. But why can WE never see into Safe Place? That is why I'm kind of hoping that Throe does try and come for Paradise and they have to hide her out there. And at least see it from her perspective.


message 41: by ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ (last edited Apr 29, 2015 12:16PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

 ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ I really don't need to see what's in Safe Place. It's been made pretty clear in previous books what goes on there. At this point I'm not interested in the explicit details about that, cos it's spelled out already, what the purpose is and what they do there. So I don't need to see what exactly occurs there with our females on their work shifts while there.... This too could be cos it's concerning secondary characters that I don't care to know about in detail. So I'm glad this aspect of the BDB is left on the surface. Cos again, for me, it would just be pointless page time.

I'm just glad that our females are mentioned. We hear what they've been up to instead of just assuming what they may or may not be doing outside of their mates & the compound.

Now if what they're doing there (Safe Place or a member of Safe Place) directly coincides with a current plot, OR it organically gives birth to a new plot, then that may be interesting to watch unfold. But for now it would just feel very forced & boring to me... Kinda like Assail & Sola. And their place within the BDB fold.


Dhfan4life Yes, but what if Ward ever had of dreamed of being clever enough to have written a story where the Lessers attacked Safe Place or something. Cause that is what I mean by seeing inside of there. I mean what kind of precautions do they have for something like that? Since men aren't allowed in there, could we have seen Xhex and Payne teaming up to take out the Lessers there or would they have to call in the other guys too?

And if not that, again I get we get the general idea behind Safe Place. But I'm one of those people that like to learn more about a world in a series. And with this many books long, I would still like to have seen the vamp side of how they handle these families. Do they actually have them in a change their name, move to another area sort of program after they get healed up? Do the males that did them wrong ever get some kind of punishment for their actions? Just feels like a wasted opportunity to have it erected and not use it to it's fullest degree. And not like we can fully assume how they would do things, given how secondary the females are in general.

But yea, I would hope she does add a tie-in to it via one of the new students in the Legacy series. Maybe having been a kid having a mom that had resided there with her or him for a time. Just be extra info to expand the world to me is all and make it less rabbit hole like.


Brooklyn Ann Dhfan4life wrote: "Yes, but what if Ward ever had of dreamed of being clever enough to have written a story where the Lessers attacked Safe Place or something. Cause that is what I mean by seeing inside of there. I m..."

^^^This would be epic-awesome.


Dhfan4life Brooklyn wrote: "Dhfan4life wrote: "Yes, but what if Ward ever had of dreamed of being clever enough to have written a story where the Lessers attacked Safe Place or something. Cause that is what I mean by seeing i..."

I know right? lol.


message 45: by ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ (last edited Apr 30, 2015 06:59AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

 ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ Okay first, when Safe Place started, V set up all of their security etc.. for the place, so if something were to ever jump off there, they would be immediately notified of it. And under those special circumstances a rule like males not being allowed inside would be moot, cos they're there to keep them safe. But outside of that we know why they're not allowed inside, for the mental and emotional peace of mind for the abused that reside there..

The thing with the males who have done the abusing, it was mentioned early on, can't remember which book, but those males, unless they're in hiding etc.. and being searched for, it was implied they're brought to justice in some way.

Also since Safe Place is something that's highly secret and fairly new within the Vamp society, I don't see the Lessers with their current issues etc.. finding out about it any time soon. If they do, it's leaked to them somehow and that would be interesting to see unfold. But again, with where things stand now in both worlds, I don't see this fitting well.

Though I am beyond starved for some real action so it would be cool to watch this angle unfold. Given it's done right.


 ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ Also remember that 90% of the cases that come to Safe Place are women and children who have fled from the abuse and are in hiding. So alot of times, like in our world, legal action takes a minute to jump off. Many of these women are still too afraid to press charges etc.. most are just needing a safe place to regroup, get medical attention, and figure out their next move.


Dhfan4life See I say action rules out over sense at this point! I'm over vamp days of our lives. I want some more car bomb action! And most especially since she has the school being opened up again. Why train more folks to sit on their butts?


Dhfan4life ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ wrote: "Also remember that 90% of the cases that come to Safe Place are women and children who have fled from the abuse and are in hiding. So alot of times, like in our world, legal action takes a minute t..."

I get that, but still couldn't we see something about maybe after they are taken care of, maybe plans to get back to the old country or something if they don't want to be there anymore? Maybe Paradise seeing another aspect of her culture in play.


 ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ We could. But like I said, unless it fits organically within the plots etc.. or what's occurring is interesting for me, and it's all executed well; unless these factors are present, I'd be bored with this angle.


Dhfan4life True, but I guess for me I see ways of merging it and it would be seamless. Ward's way of doing it would be whack a piece off and hot gluing it in there and then that wouldn't fit at all. Kind of like Rhage sudden survivor's guilt. To me that just seems so last minute and off. Even if he has been feeling it before. Kind of like a day late and 50 cent short.


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