Gone with the Wind
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Question (May anger some folks) Was Scarlett possibly Philippe's daughter?
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Tiggs
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Apr 23, 2015 06:51AM

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I don't believe so. Yes, she loved Phillipe all her life. However, when her father opposed her marriage to Gerald, she threatened to enter the convent, and that horrified her father. And the book says of her first child, I forget the exact words even though I just looked them up, in the next year their first child was born. Phillipe had left the month before Gerald set eyes upon Mademoiselle Robilliard, and was dead before she determined to marry Gerald, simply to get far enough away to never set eyes on her family again, she hated them so completely. Ellen never lied, and I believe she would have simply and clearly advised Gerald if she was pregnant, and never would have threatened the convent. I believe the South at that time, those of Ellen's class, largely indulged a chivalric love -- high ideals, romantic, courtly, ritualized -- and while I'm sure there were plenty of girls who left their homes for extended visits to relatives (I believe the book mentions that later when the young Widow Hamilton is livingin Atlanta), I don't think Ellen and Phillipe consummated their relationship. Ellen is to direct for that to have happened and not have it said. I can hear her saying, if it had been the case, "Yes, Mr. O'Hara, I will marry you, but these are my terms, and you will take this child as your own and never ever reveal what I have told you or love this child any less, nor me, for its existence." Well, that's what I sort of believe, at any rate.


I had the hardback copy of the book but unfortunately, it fell apart, and I haven't got around to replacing it yet. However, I have done some extensive searching for GWTW timelines (yeah, i'm a little obsessed)and one of the more seemingly accurate ones placed Scarlett's birth very early in the year of 1845, so I don't really see that as much of a leap. After Charles' death, Scarlett first went to Charleston to stay with Ellen's relatives before she ended up visiting the Hamilton family in Atlanta. That being said, "hate" is a very strong word and seems completely out of character for Ellen. Yes, she was angry with her father for lambasting her potential engagement to Philippe, but traveling up country Georgia with an Irish immigrant Roman Catholic neither she or her family knew anything about is also a bit odd. Even Mammy was a little startled and put off by Ellen's insistence on marrying Gerald, telling her something along the lines of "Honey, you can't do that". I doubt her father would even allow it, and would much rather her join the convent.

Tiggs wrote: ""And the book says of her first child, I forget the exact words even though I just looked them up, in the next year their first child was born." I don't remember the words precisely, either, though..."
"I hate them, I hate them all... They drove him away," is actually what Ellen said, not to argue, when she told Mammy she would put Savannah behind her forever. I think it takes a great passion to create a great discipline, such as that which guided Ellen through her life as Mrs. O'Hara. I suspect we may miss the mark somewhat when we credit Scarlett's fire solely to Gerald. I also think another movie should be made where Ellen is not just a shadow in the background; she's a great character. Maybe "Before the Wind"?
"I hate them, I hate them all... They drove him away," is actually what Ellen said, not to argue, when she told Mammy she would put Savannah behind her forever. I think it takes a great passion to create a great discipline, such as that which guided Ellen through her life as Mrs. O'Hara. I suspect we may miss the mark somewhat when we credit Scarlett's fire solely to Gerald. I also think another movie should be made where Ellen is not just a shadow in the background; she's a great character. Maybe "Before the Wind"?

It is something, isn't it? The KKK (long after the time we're talking about, of course) was very strongly anti-Catholic. Better to marry one than to be a nun, I guess.

I just meant from the union itself, not necessarily that Gerald was her father. So either Ellen was trying to hide her sorrow in another man's arms or just Scarlett was a selfish baby and decided she would keep all the fire XD
Can I suggest something? Is it possible, if you take in Ellen's history and how she had to completely uproot and remake herself to survive her loss, that she saw herself in Scarlett? I think how Scarlett toyed with so many men before the war, and how Ellen never seemed to counsel her to not play the field as blatantly as she did. Is it possible that she wanted her most dynamic daughter to find her true love, and so never reined her in, didn't wish for Scarlett the pain she had lived herself? Did not tell her she couldn't marry up and marry Charles Hamilton out of the blue? That it was Gerald and not Ellen who lectured Scarlett about throwing herself at Ashley, a man who never declared his intention to marry her? I'm not saying that Ellen was reliving her youth through her daughter, I think she had no wish to relive that youth, but that she never put her daughter, Scarlett, in a position where Scarlett had to choose between family and love? Just wondering...


As to the argument that this must be the case because of all the seemingly irrelevant backstory, don't forget that Margaret Mitchell goes into Gerald's past in just as much detail.


This is very interesting. Scarlett more then once wishes she was like her mother. I didn't realize it when reading it, but what you said made me realize that maybe Scarlett was more like her mom then she knew. Her mom cares for sick people. So does Scarlett with Melly. The book never really points out all that Scarlett does for people until Melly points it out. But she does silently. Just like her mom silently helps people around her. I had no idea Scarlett was financially helping Aunt Pittypat until Aunt Pittypat doesn't want India in her home out of loyalty to Scarlett who has been financially helping her. Who knows what else Scarlett has done because it's not mentioned unless another character mentions it. I would love to know more about Ellen..so I like the Before the Wind idea.
Jeanette wrote: "....and the race is on to write Before the Wind! I'm already on page 2 of the outline..."
Oh how funny. But I do love Ellen, I think of what she must think about before she falls asleep at night. Her passion was so great, her discipline is so great. Both qualities a real heroine needs to create tension in a book. Go at it!
Oh how funny. But I do love Ellen, I think of what she must think about before she falls asleep at night. Her passion was so great, her discipline is so great. Both qualities a real heroine needs to create tension in a book. Go at it!

Jeanette wrote: "Hm.. I have a question for anyone who can help - if I write a prequel to Gone With the Wind, do I need to apply for permission from the Mitchell Estate? And, if so, whom would that be? Her heirs..."
I've heard the Mitchell Estate is very protective. Someone has written a book, within the lats 10 years, or they were approached about a movie remake, or something. But if you Google, you'd get an idea. My guess is that you couldn't begin to approach them except through a well-established literary agent, if not an attorney. I'm curious to know how many people have tried. I know it's a big number.
I've heard the Mitchell Estate is very protective. Someone has written a book, within the lats 10 years, or they were approached about a movie remake, or something. But if you Google, you'd get an idea. My guess is that you couldn't begin to approach them except through a well-established literary agent, if not an attorney. I'm curious to know how many people have tried. I know it's a big number.


The Mitchell estate sued the author of The Wind Done Gone. The case was finally dropped when the publisher made a really big donation...
The wind done gone hahahahahahahahaha

Tiggs wrote: "First, I want to start out by saying that this is my favorite book. I haven't read it in a few years, but I'm completely familiar with the story. One thing that's always been on my mind is that Sca..."


LOL what? Scarlett IS Gerald's daughter.
Margaret even states in the *FIRST* chapter that (paraphrasing here) that "in her face were too sharply blended the features of her mother--a coast aristocrat--and a florid Irish father".
Scarlett is Gerald's daughter. Case closed.
Yes, Ellen loved Phillipe, but IIRC, her family sent him away and she never saw him again.

"In her face were too sharply blended the delicate features of her mother, a Coast aristocrat of French descent, and the heavy ones of her florid Irish father."
There's even this statement made by Mammy when Scarlett gets mad that she won't buy her rouge: "Lawd God! But you sho look like yo pa!"
So that should put paid to any nonsense (and that's what it is) that Phillipe is Scarlett's father.

"Suddenly she found her tongue and just as suddenly all the years of Ellen's teachings fell away, and the forthright Irish blood of Gerald spoke from ***his daughter's lips***.
Case closed. Scarlett is Gerald's.
(Page 115, Gone with the Wind, kindle version).

was she like Gerard because she was raised by him? or because she was really his?

was she like Gerard because she was raised by him? or because she was really his?"
🙄
Please. Margaret Mitchell makes it very clear Scarlett is Gerald’s—Gerald even tells her not to forget that she’s “half-Irish”. So unless Ellen was pregnant for a year, it’s literally impossible.


There’s no hints anywhere? Okay. Let me see what I can find.

Wait...I think I misread your post. You're saying Scarlett *IS* Gerald's daughter, right?


Agreed! I don't see how Tiggs--the person who created this post--thinks that Scarlett is the result of a union between Ellen and Phillippe.
In the first chapter alone, there are SIX proofs that Scarlett is Gerald's.

It is amazing what readers will presume from a book, but then once you publish, it is there for the readers interpretation. Glad people are still discussing it so many years later.



"Bonnie grew rapidly and every day it became more evident that Gerald O'Hara had been her grandfather."
Which proves undeniably that Gerald is Scarlett's father.

"In her face were too sharply blended the delicate features of her mother, a Coast aristocrat of French descent, and the heavy ones of her florid Irish father."
There'..."

Do the same restrictions apply to online fanfiction? Could you write it there? It could be discovered by an agent or publisher, who might take care of any copyright issues with the Mitchell estate ...

I *hate* that I'm using this as an example, but look at 50 shades. That's literally--and I do mean literally-- Twilight fanfiction with the names changed.


That's because Scarlett isn't Phillipe's daughter and noone was ever meant to think so.
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