Time Travel discussion
General Time Travel Discussion
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Time Travel stories - DOs and DON'Ts
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If you write a time travel story, please have your historical facts straight concerning the time period involved (if it is in the past, of course, unless it is an alternate, parallel history line). If someone was to, say, write a time travel story about the three musketeers, he/she better not use blindly the novels of Alexandre Dumas as historical references (wrong cardinal, wrong king, wrong dates).
How you travel in time is actually secondary, as no plausible way could scientifically explain it today. However, if you are to write about the implausible, at least make it sound plausible, and not some sort of magical hat trick.
How you travel in time is actually secondary, as no plausible way could scientifically explain it today. However, if you are to write about the implausible, at least make it sound plausible, and not some sort of magical hat trick.
For me, if the story is presented well enough and the writing is good, there are no rules. Someone once said (and I can't remember who): learn the rules and then break them. I'll willingly place myself in the author's hands, trusting they won't lead me astray. So, though I may want more scientific explanation, I'll accept vagueness if that's the only shortcoming. Well, not so much a shortcoming, because in time travel, it's almost the nature of the beast.
As for Dumas and his breaking the rules of historical fiction, as Michel pointed out, I think something like that depends on the author's motivation and intent. If it's just a matter of laziness, well then, I guess I think there is a rule after all. Be clear, be deliberate, and don't take the easy way out. Readers of books are smart people and have no qualms about punching holes through a weak concept and story.
Nowadays, in the age of Google, there really is no excuse for your having stirrups on the horses of the Roman soldiers. Research has never been easier. (Corollary: there are areas where you =must= be correct, because there are mavens who will rabidly check up on you. Guns, horses, fashion -- all red-hot, and remember while gun nuts are armed, everybody else will blog. Sub-corollary: it is easy to find a friendly maven who will hold your hand through everything in the rewrite; I have friends who have handed off entire naval battles to experts.)On the larger questions. I think it is important that the -author- know what she is doing. Is it parallel time lines, a one-way trip through time and space, or what? You don't have to tell the readers, but you yourself should know so that you don't step on your own tail.
Michel wrote: "If you write a time travel story, please have your historical facts straight concerning the time period involved (if it is in the past, of course, unless it is an alternate, parallel history line)...."Great point!!! Definitely a peeve if/when I see it (unless a parallel universe, as you pointed out).
Internal consistency. It seems to me that the rules don't have to be the most plausible as long as they are internally consistent. I don't care if magic turnips make turtles fly backwards through time while singing show tunes as long as the logic does not contradict itself. I am always interested in the logic of the rules (can't change the past, past is self-correcting, changed past creates new future, etc.) so when a writer (myself included) breaks these rules, it irritates me. When a writer does so for convenience, it's even worse. That being said, I find writing a story involving time travel with multiple universes (each with their own physical/temporal laws) and multiple paradoxes to be extremely challenging. Unfortunately, my future self has not dropped by to help me figure it out. Someday, I hope to change that, but it doesn't appear that I did. Scum.
Ubiquitous wrote: "Internal consistency. It seems to me that the rules don't have to be the most plausible as long as they are internally consistent. I don't care if magic turnips make turtles fly backwards through t..."So very true!
I agree, internal consistencey is the most important, however, I also agree that if the book is engrossing I don't ask many questions. I do think that historical accuracy is important, however, I am willing to forgive a bit.
I agree that the events of the time period should be taken into consideration. I spent time researching the Chernobyl consequences,Panama canal,Egyptian archeology,if I stated what the weather was on a particular day-that is what the weather actually was (BBC helped me out on that front). Accuracy was important to me but perhaps I carried it too far..Having worked in thousands of an inch for most of my adult life it is in my nature to be as exact as possible in my work..Just my opinion.
You do have to consider the readers. Most of your readers will neither know nor care what the weather was like on October 14, 1861, when your heroine gets married. There were certainly people somewhere on earth who were not very excited or interested about the events of November 1963, and so if your book doesn't mention JFK's assassination it is not unrealistic.In other words, just because you -know- that fact, you don't have to tell the reader if it is not important to the story. We have all read novels which were essentially descriptions of Regency gowns, or military hardware, or sweaty sexual encounters, held together by a thin batter of plot and character. These are not good books.
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You nailed it Ubiquitous the sky is the limit as to what can be done do not limit your imaginations as to what can be done and not...just establish your crazy and make sure not to break the logic behind your crazy.
I think that truly distinguishes good writers from great writers....Great writers blow the minds of their readers and then explains why Luke is Darth Vaders son....No Way that's crazy.
Sorry for not using spoiler tags :)
Brenda wrote: "You do have to consider the readers. Most of your readers will neither know nor care what the weather was like on October 14, 1861, when your heroine gets married. There were certainly people somewhere on earth who were not very excited or interested about the events of November 1963, and so if your book doesn't mention JFK's assassination it is not unrealistic.In other words, just because you -know- that fact, you don't have to tell the reader if it is not important to the story."
I agree with the general principle but not the specific example of JFK. He was a world-icon - much as Obama is today - and there was likely no group of people anywhere on Earth who didn't know about him, other than stone-age dwellers in Borneo, and even they probably had heard about JFK.
Brenda wrote: "We have all read novels which were essentially descriptions of Regency gowns, or military hardware, or sweaty sexual encounters, held together by a thin batter of plot and character. These are not good books. "OMG, yes!!!!! I hate when I come across stuff like this. 30 pages of the awesomeness of the weapon that will win the war when there is barely enough explanation to know what the war is about, for example.
I'm pretty proud of the level of research I did for my time-travel novel. I've gotten really frustrated time and again with anachronistic or just pointlessly meandering portrayals of time periods. I went so deep as to even analyze The Secret History of the Mongols to dredge up references for my book. And, yes, stories like these tend to get weapon-heavy. Folks get happy with military hardware. I just incorporated it into the story as part of the plot, nothing more. Oh yeah, and a sexual metaphor.
Chary wrote: "I'm pretty proud of the level of research I did for my time-travel novel. I've gotten really frustrated time and again with anachronistic or just pointlessly meandering portrayals of time periods. ..." Chary--I understand your being proud of the degree of effort put into research..Even if it doesn't add significantly to the story it gives you the satisfaction of knowing that your best effort was put forth. And if the occasional reader decides to google up something you've put to paper--he can only say "This author did his/her research. Good job."
I'm a rabbit-hole kind of writer. I love sticking in little references and things that the reader can then go explore on their own. I do that when I read all the time!
I agree with that last point 100% - in fact, I can't really enjoy time travel stories if they don't engage paradoxes, time loops, and philosophical questions.
And, of course, there can be time travel from the past into the here and now, or into the future. That requires a different sort of accuracy.
Ken wrote: "And, of course, there can be time travel from the past into the here and now, or into the future. That requires a different sort of accuracy."Yes! And researching the past to bring the characters to the here and now is quite fun, if I say so myself.
Well, I know where to come when my TT trilogy is published. Guys, I have your needs met!
Paul wrote: "I think it's a tricky one to express absolute do's and don't's as these will tend to vary across the kind of novel."To me they vary more from person to person and genre to genre.
Paul wrote: "On a positive note, I particularly like paradoxes and time loops and philosophical questions about time travel. I think this helps to set time travel novels apart from many others! "
Exactly! To me, these are the MOST FUN aspects to explore with time travel, however, I've known people who have claimed that a paradox is ABSOLUTELY FORBIDDEN. I think the opposite.....it's practically a necessity. A time travel story without a paradox, to me, is a bit like a fantasy story without magic.
Ubiquitous wrote: "Internal consistency. It seems to me that the rules don't have to be the most plausible as long as they are internally consistent. I don't care if magic turnips make turtles fly backwards through t..."I second this motion. Especially if you are writing a series. Keep an outline, a timeline, and a quick reference to your series on hand as you write each book. Your fans WILL find any detail that doesn't fit, and they WILL tell you about it. :)
I say this very humbly from one who has painfully learned this lesson!!
Chris wrote: "Must a time-travel story have the science of time-travel explained?Probably. But no "must".
If the time travel is intentional, on the part of a character in the story, then I probably need some kind of explanation. It also probably doesn't need any real details.
I'm fine with a "time machine" that the character gets into, rides, or otherwise flings them away via tech. Likewise, if a fantasy novel, "it's magic stupid" works, just fine.
However, I can envision a story where the character suddenly time travels and there's no explanation. It just needs to be written well, so that I believe the writer did this on purpose and not as a result of being a poor writer.
On the other hand, when it comes to blaming (or potentially blaming) it on a dream (and this goes for any story element), I gave at the office. Twain got the only donation and I can almost guarantee that I'd reject that, as a plot device.
Chris wrote: "Are paradoxes a fun story mechanism, or do you consider them absolute NO-NOs?
Where relevant, they must be dealt with. If a writer does a time travel story and something is paradoxical, but gets no mention, then I assume the author is not ready for time travel stories and should have stuck with straight drama (I'm being kind). I have no interest in lily-livered stories that can't handle the tough stuff. No one is forced to write time travel stories: do it right.
At the same time, I have little interest in unmotivated paradoxes or unnecessary gabbling about them, philosophical or otherwise. If it's story-relevant, deal with it in an interesting, well-thought-out way. If it's not, don't (or make it very interesting).
Many newer writers who want to deal with philosophical matters... shouldn't. (note: taking philosophy in University doesn't make you a philosopher anyone should listen to)
Also... and please, please, please... study these things, so that I don't have to sit through an idiotic discussion about paradoxes from an author who clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. An example would be a direct novelization of the 12 Monkeys tv series. If I read paradox being described the way it is in that series, I'd toss the book and ignore the writer, from then on.
Chris wrote: "What other big topics are "MUST" or "NEVER" for you?"
Historical accuracy or an explanation for why not. For a good example of the latter, check out Pyramids, by Fred Saberhagen.
I would prefer a time travel story that does not play Star Trek: The Original Series with issues:
--language barriers
--events
--paradox
For example, you can't travel to ancient Babylon or Egypt or British Isles and have a general conversation with someone. No one on Earth can tell you the languages to any degree of accuracy, nor the pronunciations (no living speakers). And even with languages that we do know, you will sound, at best, like you are mentally challenged or from the other side of the planet.
No one, for example, can say how words were pronounced in Shakespeare's day. In other words, you know the language and you still can't speak it.
And the movie Stargate at least acknowledged some of this, when Andrew Jackson realized the people they encountered on a distant planet were speaking ancient Egyptian (which he supposedly spoke), but that no one living had ever heard it spoken... so he had to adjust his expectations, to understand. It then veered into mastering-a-language-in-hours territory, but still...
Some examples. What are your thoughts?
Must a time-travel story have the science of time-travel explained?
Are paradoxes a fun story mechanism, or do you consider them absolute NO-NOs?
What other big topics are "MUST" or "NEVER" for you?
For me...I love the idea of a paradox. It's the coolest thing about time-travel to me. I love the idea you can set up an impossible story. The common theme is person from future bringing time machine back to themselves in the past. Where did the time machine come from in the first place?