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Sylvia's Lovers by Elizabeth Gaskell 1: chapters 1-14 (hosted by Claudia)
Claudia wrote: "Philip imagines Sylvia as his wife, now tamed, wearing a silk gown, perpetually under his gaze......"How creepy!
....agreed....being pretty wasn't (isn't?) always an asset.
Chapter 12 – New Year’s FêteSeveral months have passed. Bell Robson has fallen ill with rheumatic fever and was bedridden and Sylvia has been staying mostly at home nursing her. She was suddenly aware that parents are not forever and lavishes her mother with care and childlike affection.
But Bell recovers before Christmas and can now sit by the fire. Mr Robson returns home one day while Philip is visiting. Daniel has just met Mrs Corney, who has invited Sylvia to attend the New Year's Eve party she is giving with many guests. Philip tries to persuade his cousin to stay at home with her mother, but Daniel insists that his daughter accept the invitation and show the Prestons’ proud face. It is agreed that Sylvia will not be late and that her father will pick her up.
The New Year's Eve party at Moss Brow is indeed a great occasion, attended by all the Corneys - except the kind but taciturn Mr Corney, who prefers to withdraw in his room after a while - by Molly Brunton, her husband, and all the young people around, including Charley Kinraid, whom the Bruntons have picked up on their way to Monkshaven. Sylvia came early to help Molly and Bessy Corney. She is wearing the pink ribbon Philip gave her for Christmas. Philip is due to go to a Methodist service on New Year's Eve, but he breaks off from it and goes to the party to keep a watchful eye on Sylvia (as part of his mission in behalf of Mrs Robson).
This long chapter describes the cornucopia of food, cups, pitchers, jugs (including Toby), drinks, the crowd of guests attending the merry gathering. After tea with bread and butter, games are organised. Sylvia is the "belle" of the evening, a real eye-catcher, especially for Kinraid. When she spills her tea on her gown, she almost cries but Kinraid rushes over to wipe her gown and hide her clumsiness.
Sylvia has noticed that Philip has arrived, which upsets her. She does not take his hand and barely looks at him but feels his stern and disapproving gaze on her all the time.
When the games begin, the atmosphere is overheated and there is a lot of laughter and shouting between boys and girls. One of the games is called “forfeits”. One of the participants takes some belongings from others, who are required to do something as a forfeit. Sylvia’s pink ribbon is in the hands of Mrs Corney, while the young girl is to kiss “the candleholder”, i.e. Kinraid who is holding a candle. But Sylvia is extremely embarrassed and refuses to kiss Kinraid, and, on the verge of tears, withdraws herself to the chamber at the back of the house. Kinraid vanishes out of the room. After a short while, Sylvia is back with a brown ribbon in her hair and her face refreshed. Philip is watching her for the remainder of the evening, while she is eating near Kinraid and seems to enjoy herself in small talk with him. Philip has heard some probably salacious allusions to what may have happened between them outside of the parlour.
Philip makes Sylvia understand that she should go home now and he offers to accompany her. Kinraid protests and wants to walk Sylvia home to Haytersbank, but suddenly Mr Robson turns up and greets the Corneys and is delighted to see Kinraid. He invites Charley to visit as soon as possible, else he will be cross. Sylvia goes home with her father, while Philip walks sadly home where he is greeted by Hester and William who wish him a blessed New Year. Alice is less benevolent as she says to be tired, and it is late.
Kinraid, decided to ask Sylvia to be his wife, nevertheless spots the next pretty girl around and enjoys himself.
Merry partiesForfeit games were very popular in the 1800ies.
From “Petticoats and Pistols”, here are excerpts from a blog article by Kathryn Albright, 2018.
“These games were played for fun with a light-hearted attitude. Keeping score (numerically) wasn’t done. However, there was such a thing as “forfeits” which added tremendously to the fun. (Personally, writes Kathryn Albright, I think these should make a comeback!)
Forfeits occurred when someone made a mistake, lost their chance to a seat or space in the game, or lost in some way. That player would write their name on a piece of paper, which would then be placed in a bowl or basket. At the end of the game (or the evening) a judge would be chosen. A second player would select a paper from the bowl and announce: “I have a forfeit to be redeemed.” The judge would ask whether it belonged to a lady or a gentleman. Upon learning which it was, he would then assign a task for the person to perform (not knowing the actual person’s identity.)"
A ClimaxThis long chapter is a climax to the first volume of Sylvia's Lovers.
This chapter was originally the last one of the first volume in manuscripts, but the two following chapters 13 and 14 were added to the first volume in printed form. I strongly suspect that Elizabeth Gaskell made a break after having written her first volume rapidly in spring 1860. She nevertheless had her story "very clear in her head", as she wrote to her editor George Smith already in December 1859. Yet, after she completed the present volume, dark clouds were gathering above her and her family: their house was robbed, Rev. William was cross and out of sorts, their daughter Marianne was ill with a bad chicken pox, at first worryingly mistaken for smallpox..
Chapter 12 is centred around the ubiquitous Charley Kinraid and the equally ubiquitous Philip Hepburn. Clearly, Charley Kinraid has won Sylvia's heart during this merry New Year's Eve party.
Happiness, activity, energy reign supreme, as it does throughout this first volume. John McVeagh, in his essay "The Making of Sylvia's Lovers" (1970), insists on the original structure of the novel, which was perhaps less visible eventually since the novel was published as a single book and read "as a straight run of 45 chapters". The first volume is very much about "lively and energetic activity, youthful romance", "the joys of life despite the threat of press gangs", and the war in the background.
The New Year's festivities provide Sylvia and Charley with an opportunity to meet again in a more relaxed and festive setting, away from the strict family circle and Mrs Robson's disapproving gaze. Sylvia deliberately ignores Philip's equally disapproving gaze. Nevertheless, the forfeit game and what is being asked of her is, at first sight, a bold step. Sylvia is childlike, even childish and emotional, which is probably why she does not want to kiss Charley in front of everyone and goes out ashamed. Did she kiss him outside the farm hall? Molly and Bessy, who tend to spot any hint of romance around their pretty friend, hint that something has happened. Mrs Corney is an efficient moderator full of energy, while Molly and Bessy are more gossipy helpers.
Philip is excluded from general merriness. He is shown as an observer from the beginning when two (very different) pairs of eyes ("a glow of admiration, honest brightness" Vs "earnest, sad, nay, even gloomy" watching Sylvia are described. Philip tends to disapprove of what goes on around his cousin, partly because he feels he is the guardian of her virtue, partly because he sees her as his idol, and after the games and some words he overhears, he is bitterly disappointed. He is repeatedly described as "pent up in places", stuck in an obscure corner or against the wall, not taking part in games, seated or standing with guests who he does not really belong to, either older participants or "young farmers with whom Philip had nothing in common".
Philip’s solitary return to his lodgings in Monkshaven in the cold and snowy and frosty weather, right at the turn of year when he left the warm atmosphere and the joyful company seeing the New Year in, and missed the Night-Watch Methodist service as well, is a terrible contrast. Philip ends up being excluded from the merry gathering by the fire at the Corneys' but also from the spiritual and warm togetherness at the Methodist chapel. He seems to be an outcast from both, thrown out into the cold and the outer darkness. Let's keep this powerful passage in mind:
“The cold sleet almost blinded him as the sea-wind drove it straight in his face; it cut against him as it was blown with drifting force. The roar of the wintry sea came borne on the breeze; there was more light from the whitened ground than from the dark leaden sky above.”
What a long and rich chapter! Here are all the characters we know this far reunited as if on a theatre scene: the Robsons and Philip, all the Corneys and friends including Charley Kinraid, the neighbouring farmers, and a closing, more quiet scene reuniting Mrs Rose, Hester and William with Philip, the ubiquitous red thread in the whole chapter."At this time, all the actors of this story [have] played their part and gone to rest..." as reminds us Mrs Gaskell, skilfully playing with the now and then, like a drama writer!
We will read chapter 13 on Wednesday 23 April!
Until then, it is up to you!
I loved this chapter. I felt as if I were at the party and feeling all the feels. Philip is awkward and out of place, as you mentioned, Claudia. He doesn't seem to fit into any situation. He's out of place at the party and out of place when he gets home (having missed the connection of the service). In between, he's alone in bitter cold and struggling against the elements.
Kincaid, on the other hand, may be the worst of the two. He admits having forgotten about Sylvia (a point that Sylvia, thankfully, remembers), he 'courts' her throughout the evening, then moves to another pretty girl when Sylvia leaves. He's bad news and a player.
The party itself seemed like a lot of fun. There were games, conversation. It's an opportunity for the young folks to get to know each other in a safe environment.
The game of Forfeits sounds a lot like Truth Or Dare. LOL.
Molly seems to have become quite snooty about her origins and the town she grew up in. Town life and marriage to a successful man have, maybe, gone to her head. She's young, though. I suspect the new circumstances of her life at this young age have turned her head a bit.
Great points Petra!You aptly also focused on Kinraid while we (or I) tended to be negatively influenced to see Philip as a "wet blanket" on the general merriness.
Here is a particularly telling passage on Kinraid:
"Accustomed to popularity among women, and well versed in the incipient signs of their liking for him, he anticipated no difficulty in winning her."
Claudia, I found that line creepy and am quite worried about Sylvia's future. She's so young and inexperienced. Kincaid could hurt her badly.
Yes, indeed, a long chapter, and one packed with plot advancement, events, as well as clothes and colour that do double duty as symbols.Initially we see Sylvia in the role of a concerned care giver. She may have exhibited earlier in the novel childish tendencies but she is also a caring and concerned person. I think it important to remember her in this role as the coming party will present her in another role.
Philip has been portrayed earlier as a rather rigid individual but for the party he is seen studying patterns and colours for a new waist coat. Does this suggest he is attempting a transition in order to attract Sylvia’s attention - and hopefully her heart as well? While he has objected in the past to Sylvia’s desire to have a red coat we see his purchasing a ribbon for Sylvia. The briar-rose pattern offers the suggestion of both sweetness and thorns. Later in the chapter Sylvia will be associated with yet another ribbon. The importance and significance of ribbons in the novel continue to present themselves.
The events of the party help us clarify the differences between Kinraid and Philip. The spilt tea, Kinraid’s silk handkerchief, the ‘missing time’ of Kinraid and Sylvia. There is more going on at this party than simply games.
I was also interested in Sylvia’s return to her home after the party. The weather turned nasty, indeed the phrase ‘lost in the darkness of the night’ was used. I think we have a great example of pathetic fallacy here. It is the beginning of the new year. Darkness pervades the book.
Indeed Peter that phrase "lost in darkness" right when the bells are ringing to welcome the new year might sound ominous.As far as the ribbon with a briar-rose pattern is concerned, it may suggest a notion of taming the "wild" Sylvia who is like a wild briar-rose with thorns blooming on the moors. There is something romantic, even poetic in its delicate colour - Philip hints to his yet undeclared love for her but also means that he wants to mould her into someone more gentrified (silk gowns and a gig were mentioned in chapter 11).
I’m waiting for the right man to appear. Neither Phillip nor Charlie are good choices. Hopefully, the title refers to more than two lovers.
I was thinking like Kathleen. If you could take the stability and loyalty of Phillip and combine it with some of the charm and sociability of Charley, you might have a good man for Sylvia. I think she is headed for a broken heart, but I cannot seem to wish her to miss every joy in life by settling for the confinement of Phillip, who wants to mold her into someone other than herself. I still find Hester a very interesting character. She is proper and never lets her feelings over-reach her sense. She is as taken with Phillip as he is with Sylvia, but I think she sees him for who he is and does not fantasize.
We see a great deal of Sylvia's immaturity and inexperience coming out in this chapter. She seems younger even than Bess...but then Bess has the example of Molly before her all the time. What we also see is her genuine good heart in her concern for her mother and her attentive care during the sickness.
Peter wrote: "Initially we see Sylvia in the role of a concerned care giver. She may have exhibited earlier in the novel childish tendencies but she is also a caring and concerned person. I think it important to remember her in this role as the coming party will present her in another role."I'm generally impressed with Sylvia as a daughter. She's right there whenever needed not just when her mother is sick but when she's working. She carries her fair and significant share of labor around the house without complaint, and accompanies both her parents whenever they want her for something. I think she earned this party.
Sara wrote: "I still find Hester a very interesting character. She is proper and never lets her feelings over-reach her sense. She is as taken with Phillip as he is with Sylvia, but I think she sees him for who he is and does not fantasize."Philip's not a bad guy! He seems to have just one character flaw--his obsession with a woman who's simply out of his reach. I think Bell called it correctly when she said he was too "old fashioned" for Sylvia: not so much in him being old fashioned, but just in him being for whatever reason, not his fault, a poor fit.
I am more optimistic for Philip right now than for Sylvia because if he can ever get over his crush, there's a perfectly acceptable and better fit waiting for him in Hester. While for Sylvia, as Kathleen notes, there's not really a good alternative.
Chapter 13 – PerplexitiesPhilip is now trying to sleep after exchanging a few words with his fellow lodger, William. The latter quotes a point from the Methodist minister's sermon: “Apples of Sodom are pleasant to look at but are ashes to taste.”
Philip has recurring visions of “the scenes” in the Corney’s parlour. However, after a few hours of bad sleep, he wakes up in a slightly better mood and goes out, trying not to wake anyone. He fetches water for the kettle from a well outside and helps the grumpy Alice Rose to hang it in the fireplace. He reviews “looks and words” from the party and sees “just reason for his anxiety”. He resolves to go to Haytersbank after work and speak to Sylvia and/or her mother, depending on their own mood there and Bell’s state of health. “Something must be learnt”, he decides.
“But something was learnt nearer home”. Indeed, Mrs Rose is dissatisfied with Philip’s changing plan after he had first wanted to go with Hester to the Methodist Night-Watch. The young man is “uncomfortable by Mrs Rose’s changed manner”.
He speaks of his intention to go to see his aunt and family.
The shop is buzzing with activity as Messr Foster offer cake and wine to customers and visitors on New Year's Day. Philip’s mind is “far away”, which has unpleasant consequences in his relationship with customers. He tries to “collect his scattered wits” and gives Hester the traditional New Year’s present he and William have selected for her. Hester is deeply moved.
Alone again, Philip reflects on his relationship with Sylvia. He doubts whether there is any hope, but hopes all the same. He is aware that “he cannot be merry and light-hearted like other men”. He was an early and lonely orphan and therefore an early adult. He feels “stirring within him a force of enduring love”. He has shown Sylvia “his displeasure”, so that he decides to be “tender and forgiving”.
Alice shows an angry and preaching attitude to Philip. She is disappointed that he preferred going to a party instead of attending the Watch-Night in “the company of the godly”. She is worried that he has left the sacred for the profane and that he has succumbed to the temptations of the world, embodied by Sylvia. Philip explains that his aunt and his cousin are “his own flesh and blood”, and the Robsons “all [he] has left of kin”.
As if in answer to Alice's prayer for Hepburn's protection from evil, William informs his colleague that they are both invited to dinner tonight by John and Jeremiah Foster. Philip suspects that they will be discussing a possible business partnership with the young men, so after a few tergiversations he decides to postpone his visit to Haytersbank until the following day.
Philip is encouraged by the incidental visit to the shop of Charley Kinraid with his cousin Mollly and her sisters. The young man wants to “secure” a few items as presents for the young ladies, before he leaves Monkshaven again the next day. Philip has “a kind of envy of [Charley’s] bright, courteous manner, the natural gallantry of the sailor (…), a certain kind of genialty of disposition which made him ready to smile pleasantly at all strangers, from babies upwards.” However, he also hears that the party has lasted four more hours after he and Sylvia left, and that Charley has merrily danced a hornpipe, a “pas seul”, on the ground. Philip could never have danced a hornpipe if his mind had been on Sylvia, so he assumes that Charley was not affected by Sylvia's departure. Philip “imagines that all men are like him”, while Charley seems to think that he has seen the shop assistant somewhere before. Charley's searching look into Philip's eyes makes him feel uncomfortable.
MethodismThere are many religious allusions in this chapter as we read Philip’s fellow lodgers’ reactions to his absence from the Methodist Night-Watch.
Methodists were considered Dissenters after this Protestant denomination was created by John and Charles Wesley and a few others. In the 1790s, the energy of this religious current was strong and fresh.
From Wikipedia: “ They were named Methodists for "the methodical way in which they carried out their Christian faith". Methodism originated as a revival movement within Anglicanism with roots in the Church of England in the 18th century and became a separate denomination after Wesley's death in 1791. The movement spread throughout the British Empire, the United States and beyond because of vigorous missionary work and today has about 80 million adherents worldwide.”
Wesleyan theology focuses on sanctification and the transforming effect of faith on the character of a Christian. Distinguishing doctrines include the new birth resulting from a personal encounter with God, imparted righteousness and obedience to God manifested in performing works of piety.
We can see a good example of an itinerant Methodist woman preacher preaching to crowds outside in Adam Bede by George Eliot.
Apples of SodomApples of Sodom were a telling metaphor in some Victorian novels, e.g. The Claverings by Trollope. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (BJ, IV, viii, 4) says that "the traces (or shadows) of the five cities (of the plain) are still to be seen, as well as the ashes growing in their fruits, which fruits have a color as if they were fit to be eaten; but if you pluck them with your hands they dissolve into smoke and ashes." Other sources say that “Apples of Sodom” have a bitter taste and are poisonous.
While the Bible does not explicitly mention the Apples of Sodom, the symbolism aligns with biblical themes of deception and the consequences of sin. In the Book of Genesis, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a powerful narrative illustrating God's judgment against sin and the importance of righteousness. The account of Lot's wife, who looked back at the cities and turned into a pillar of salt (Genesis 19:26), further emphasizes the dangers of longing for a sinful past.
Alice Rose’s talkAlice Rose appears to be very unlike another Alice we met, God-abiding and positive Alice Wilson in Mary Barton. Alice Rose has appeared up to now as a gruffy elderly lady, nearly obsessed with cleanliness and tidiness, very religious, which may sound “holier-than-thou”. However, her attitude ought to be understood in her context, not our present one.
Alice’s words contain biblical quotes or phrases, which may eventually make sense.
One of Alice’s phrases is: “Satan is desiring after you that he may sift you as wheat” alludes to Luke 22:31. It sounds negative in her present manner, but this too must be replaced in Jesus’ words to Peter and the other apostles. “And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat.” (King James Bible). In biblical times, wheat or other grain was sifted through a sieve to separate it from impurities.
In sifting Peter and the other disciples as wheat, Satan’s goal was to crush them and wreck their faith. The adversary wants to destroy the faith of every believer (John 10:10) But Jesus assured Peter in the following verse, “I have pleaded in prayer for you, Simon, that your faith should not fail. So when you have repented and turned to me again, strengthen your brothers” (Luke 22:32) Peter’s leadership role in the early church proved that the Lord’s prayer for Peter was answered.
Indeed, Alice is also praying for Philip’s soul, “that Satan may not have him, for he came to me but a little lad”.
Alice is also a product of her time and background, and of early Quakerism. Some of its currents were very much based on Puritanism, hence the dichotomy between "Satan, the flesh, the world and its temptations" and "the godly company". Nevertheless, she fears that Philip Hepburn, whom she perhaps regards as her adopted son - he calls her "Mother" - because he came to live with her as a "little lad" and was so religious, may now grow in a more profane world because of his relationship with Sylvia Robson, who is talked of as a town beauty, eye-catching in her red cloak.
Why are Quakers and seekers attending a Methodist Watch-Night? Most probably because no other church in Monkshaven has such services on New Year’s Eve. A New Year’s Watch-Night is indeed a Methodist tradition, after Christ’s command to “Watch and Pray” (Matthew 26:41), this verse being also quoted by Alice.
Thank you Kathleen, Sara, Julie for pointing out very pertinently that Sylvia's choice, if there is any choice, is not so easy. None of her present "lovers" is a perfect match for her, to say the least. We are now seeing how much Philip is oscillating between despair and hope during this long New Year Day! Chapter 11 was brushing past several months, while chapter 13 offers a minutious analysis of Philip's endless day, based on a few trivial facts as starting points to the "intermittences" and swings of his moods.
Up to you!
We will be reading Chapter 14 tomorrow Thursday 24 April!
It would be easy to dismiss Alice as a shrew, but as you have pointed out, she is deeply concerned for the soul of her charge and her words are meant as a warning and a calling back of one she sees as near some dangerous precipice. And, if you consider that Satan wins his souls through temptations, Sylvia is certainly a temptation to Phillip. It also must irk Alice a bit that her daughter, who is a lovely and good person, looks fondly on Phillip while he chases after Sylvia. There is also a theme of false encouragement here, I think. The way Sylvia took Phillip's hand and often offers him small signals of favor that are mistook, Phillip does the same for Hester. He sees no significance in handing her the package, but for her it becomes a gift from Phillip--you can bet she is not thinking of it as a gift from William.
Charley certainly appears to be more in charge of his own emotions and his outlook on life. In contrast, in this chapter we get an extended look at Philip. He is less sure of himself, and I feel less sure of his future. He questions his thoughts, his words, and his actions. Thus Charley and Philip continue to define each other. On the surface, Charley appears to be in a better place in terms of defining his own self and his own future. I am beginning to doubt his sincerity and commitment to anyone or anything else than his own self-interest.
Philip is certainly earnest, albeit, much more confused about his present position and his future aspirations. To me, it seems that Gaskell has spent much more time dwelling on the depth and breadth of Philip’s character than she has on exploring any depth in Charley’s character.
And in the middle we have Sylvia. The previous chapter gave us a good summary through symbol and atmosphere that her heart and mind are in the wind.
"Philip is certainly earnest, albeit, much more confused about his present position and his future aspirations. To me, it seems that Gaskell has spent much more time dwelling on the depth and breadth of Philip’s character than she has on exploring any depth in Charley’s character."Indeed, Peter! I hope I am not betraying too much when mentioning that Kinraid has often been described as a cardboard hero...
"There is also a theme of false encouragement here, I think."Right, Sara! Much is based on misunderstanding. You mentioned some non-verbal communication and interpretation which do lead to misunderstandings between Sylvia and Philip and Philip and Hester, and fuel false hopes.
I’m up to date with the reading of book and comments and enjoying all. I do wonder if William will play any roll in the future of the major characters. He is doting on Hester but really is on the outside of all other activity except for the store. And I wonder why Kinraid gave Philip a knowing look. So much to watch for.
Chapter 14 – PartnershipThe final chapter of Volume One opens with Philip's thoughts - he is now reassured by Kinraid's attitude towards Sylvia. Charley did not mean his flirting so seriously. On the other hand, "(...) the ambitious man of business existed strongly in Philip. It would never do to slight advances towards the second great earthly object in his life; one also on which the first depended."
We read a lovely description of a winter's night in Monkshaven, the crisp, cold air with a sea-salt breeze, the picturesque setting of the small town and the newer, wealthier mansions uphill as a sign of prosperity.
A substantial hot dinner at Fosters’, a hefty Yorkshire pie and a good bottle of wine await Philip and William, who carefully avoid sensitive topics of politics and war. The real conversation the dinner was intended to stimulate takes place after dinner.
At one point, the two brothers act like actors staging a play when they first explain their plans to the young sales assistants. They want to develop their banking project and give up their goodwill. They ask the boys for the exact value of the goodwill and goods in store and imagine how Philip and William could buy their assets. The boys are dismayed as they do not have much money and cannot borrow from relatives. John and Jeremiah revealed that they had planned to give them the business, which they would repay in stages over the next few years. They read them a document proving that the Fosters had orchestrated their entire strategy.
The boys are happy. Philip is touched and wishes his mother could have seen this day. The Foster brothers ask their future successors to keep this transaction secret until it is legally and officially published. The brothers have also made provisions for Hester, who will receive a higher salary.
Philip is very grateful and confident that Sylvia will accept him more readily now that he has an upgraded position and Kinraid seems to be out of the picture. The first volume ends on a positive note with Philip's rise in partnership.
A chronology so farOne precise date in this chapter allowed me to reconsider the whole timeline.
Autumn 1794: Sylvia and Molly go to the market and see the whaling ships sailing back home. Press-gang attacks. Darley is killed, and buried. Kinraid is severely wounded and eventually convalescent at Moss Brow, the (relatively) neighbouring farm. Sylvia and her father bring homemade sausages for him at Corney's. Kinraid visits at Haytersbank several times before leaving for Newcastle where his relatives live. Meanwhile Sylvia is learning writing and reading with Philip. Winter months pass.
Spring 1795: Molly is engaged to Mr Brunton of Newcastle and married in May of the same year.
Meanwhile the Fosters are considering handing over their shop to Hepburn and Coulson and fully dedicate themselves to develop their up to now yet embryonic bank.
In December 1795, the Seditious Meetings Act (36 Geo. 3. c. 8) is passed as an act of the Parliament, aiming to restrict the size of public meetings to fifty persons. It is mentioned in this chapter.
31 December 1795, i.e. yesterday, Mrs Corney throws her enormous party. Sylvia and Kinraid meet again.
1 January 1796, today, Philip and William are eating dinner at Jeremiah Foster's. The brothers discuss the matter of their succession with them.
However my chronology may be not perfect either, because some specialists/purists enquired so far as checking week days and moon phases, which revealed little erroneous details - however of perhaps no huge importance.
CommentsThis chapter allowed us first to see that Philip is now reassured as far as Sylvia's possible romance with Kinraid is concerned. We also read about his emotion while he is thinking of how proud his late mother would be as he and Coulson are to be successors to the Fosters.
Philip is now more serene and focused on his further career perspectives which will soon allow him to propose to Sylvia and ask her parents for their blessing.
The encounter with the brothers sounds like a well-rehearsed play: Philip is knocking at the door while William does not dare to. William is obviously younger than Philip, who is said to be 23, and obviously more spontaneous but also respectful of Philip's precedence.
The young men have been waited for. Every detail has been minitiously taken care of: the setting (every piece of furniture is "free from any particle of dust", parallel, right-angled, the dinner itself (Yorkshire pie), the conversation (politics are better avoided). Even every silence seems to be scheduled.
The Foster brothers have assigned themselves roles: one brother suggested, while the other one repressed. They sit in exact symmetry on each side of the fireplace, "the very smiles on their honest faces seemed drawn to a line of exactitude." Jeremiah reads figures the same solemn and unnatural way he reads the Bible to his servant.
In this context, the way the transfer of property of the goodwill to the young men is organised by the brothers sounds like a coup de théâtre after a few preliminary questions which unsettled the boys at first. At last the atmosphere seems to be more relaxed after the young men accept to keep confidentiality on their agreement until the succession is made public.
More generally speaking, the Foster brothers' shop being transferred to the young men shows how the world is changing around Monkshaven. Its economy is developed among others by these ambitious and successful sales assistants coming from more modest background, who are given a chance to climb up the social ladder.
This was the last chapter of the first volume in printed form, in the first three editions. We will be reading Chapter 15 on Sunday 27 April on Thread Two. (Link will be inserted in due time thanks to Jean).
Thank you for your past comments. Please comment here today and onwards as far as the present chapter is concerned. This also gives plenty of space for those who are catching up.
Phillip and William appear to be set up for life now. They must pay back the amount they owe the Fosters but they will still both be doing well. They can think about their futures. However, the ominous command from the Fosters, do not tell anyone about this deal just yet. Phillip’s delay in confirming it makes me think there are difficulties ahead. I had a very Dickensesque feel while reading this chapter. I enjoyed it very much.
I'm glad that Lori noted the Dickensesque quality to the last chapter since I was reminded of the Cheeryble brothers in Nicholas Nickleby. The Foster brothers are acting like favorite uncles to Philiip and William. They want the young men to have a prosperous life while they are also looking out for their own business interests.
Claudia wrote: "Philip is very grateful and confident that Sylvia will accept him more readily now that he has an upgraded position and Kinraid seems to be out of the picture."I find myself increasingly irritated (and even disgusted) by Philip's refusal to see Sylvia as a human being with her own preferences and a right to have them--even after being warned off by *both* Bell and Alice. He clearly thinks she's a possession he can earn the way he's earned the Foster store (as if that were not also a gift).
I am also irritated by Gaskell's investment in him. We are given his perspective, his orphaned past, his good qualities--while as Peter and Claudia have pointed out, Charley is left very underdeveloped. I find the more Gaskell pushes him on me while he continues to behave badly, the more resistant I am to liking him. Right now I am actively hoping he fails to win Sylvia, and that Hester finds a better alternative.
Julie wrote: "Claudia wrote: "Philip is very grateful and confident that Sylvia will accept him more readily now that he has an upgraded position and Kinraid seems to be out of the picture."I find myself incre..."
Julie, you make excellent points here. And to add to this, the original name for the novel was “The Specksioneer” which would lead readers the think Charley is the focus.
Connie wrote: "I'm glad that Lori noted the Dickensesque quality to the last chapter since I was reminded of the Cheeryble brothers in Nicholas Nickleby. The Foster brothers are acting like favorite uncles to Phi..."Great comparison! (I did not think of them yet)
The Fosters were inspired by the Sanders brothers, Jonathan and Joseph (or George), who inherited a sail-cloth business, and developed a bank. They were Quakers.
Julie "He clearly thinks she's a possession he can earn the way he's earned the Foster store"Yes, Philip's thoughts at the end of chapter 13 and at the beginning of chapter 14 and after the agreement has been reached with the Fosters show that he considers that marrying Sylvia is (almost) a done deal.
Charley may also perhaps be described as archetypal, even immaterial. He comes in on stage and goes just as easily out of the picture. Just like Sylvia, he seems to be embodying movement, dynamics. He is pulsing with life and energy. As a sailor, he seems to be always "on the way", without really stopping anywhere for more than a couple of days or so. We know that he comes from Newcastle. Molly said his father left him some money, but it is all imprecise as yet. His thoughts are not featured nor analysed as are Philip's.
The way the two men come in and out of the story is indicative of their characters to me. Phillip is laborious, always thinking, plotting, planning; not often seen feeling anything except the need for possession of both Sylvia and the store, and certainly not being spontaneous or light about anything.Charley on the other hand, drifts in and out, seems always to be in the moment, full of feelings (even if some of them seem capricious) and gaiety; living as if life promises nothing and must be enjoyed while it is at hand, which fits with his profession which is dangerous and certainly never promises a tomorrow.
I can see why a mother might want the stability of a Phillip, but I can see why a girl would want Charley...Even I like him better, even though I know he is likely a rogue.
Yes. Monkshaven is changing. The Fosters have decided to move forward from their mercantile life to one of finance. Philip and William are moving up from clerks in a store to owners of the store. Such changes may seem incremental but are, I believe, under the surface, very important. Consider the focus of the chapter. It centres around money, the cost of items, how items can be tallied up into a neat final figure. The rural, sleepy village is about to arise from its slumber.As a shop owner, Philip sees himself as a better candidate for Sylvia’s attention and love. With the Fosters hovering in the background Philip will remain the stiff, unimaginative person he is. Consider the Foster home. If we think Philip is already rigid and made up of sharp angles and without any dust, what will he be like going forward? Will being a shop owner give him a larger, softer heart?
An interesting, yet unmentioned aspect of this chapter, is Charley. He represents the opposite of Philip. Philip is store bound. Charley sails the unknown seas. Philip sees his world charted for life; Kinraid embraces the unknown seas. But then the dilemma. Charley represents a world that is fast coming to an end. Philip is embarking towards the future.
As for Sylvia, we are left wondering whether the allure of marrying up into the life of a middle class shop owner wife is preferable to the unknown fathoms of Kinraid’s life and heart.
Lori wrote: "Phillip’s delay in confirming it makes me think there are difficulties ahead....."My thoughts exactly. As soon as he hesitated, I thought he'd tell Sylvia and/or her family and this would somehow cause trouble. If so, I hope that William isn't caught up in it.
Julie wrote: "I find myself increasingly irritated (and even disgusted) by Philip's refusal to see Sylvia as a human being with her own preferences and a right to have them--even after being warned off by *both* Bell and Alice. He clearly thinks she's a possession he can earn the way he's earned the Foster store (as if that were not also a gift)...."
Same here. He has yet to see her for who and what she is. He never looks beyond his feelings to find the real person that she is.
Sara wrote: "I can see why a mother might want the stability of a Phillip, but I can see why a girl would want Charley...Even I like him better, even though I know he is likely a rogue. ..."This made me chuckle. So true.
Peter wrote: "Yes. Monkshaven is changing. The Fosters have decided to move forward from their mercantile life to one of finance. Philip and William are moving up from clerks in a store to owners of the store. ............As for Sylvia, we are left wondering whether the allure of marrying up into the life of a middle class shop owner wife is preferable to the unknown fathoms of Kinraid’s life and heart...."
Your head-on, Peter. Life is a changing thing and Philip's is about to do just that.
It's interesting to ponder whether an easier life would give Philip a larger, softer heart. It would make him more likeable.
As for Sylvia, I don't think Philip's rise in position will change her mind about him. For her sake, I hope there's a third choice one day.
I'm almost caught up! A comment looking back to Alice's complaints to Philip in Chapter 13:Claudia wrote: "Nevertheless, she fears that Philip Hepburn, whom she perhaps regards as her adopted son - he calls her "Mother" - because he came to live with her as a "little lad" and was so religious, may now grow in a more profane world because of his relationship with Sylvia Robson, who is talked of as a town beauty, eye-catching in her red cloak."
ECG tells us also that Alice gives Philip "a rebuke the motives to which were not entirely revealed even to herself." Along with her strict religiosity and worry for Philip's soul, she has designs on him as Hester's eventual husband. She wants both that Philip is worthy of Hester and that he pays her the attention that she deserves.
In much the same way, Bell Robson hopes that Philip will marry Sylvia. Another mirroring.
It is interesting how Philip has evolved from an unattractive, unwelcome, and fastidious person into a sympathetic character with integrity and an understated inner power. What has Sylvia become in the meantime? From the chapters in which she resisted learning she has seemed slight, uncouth, frivolous, and insensitive, not really worth the suffering that she is causing Philip. On one level he recognizes that, as we are told near the beginning that he sees her as spoiled but loves her in spite of her character flaws.
Unlike those of us who have chosen to see Sylvia as a girl seeking adventure, pushing the bounds of the Victorian woman, to me her interest in Greenland is only a result of her infatuation with Kinraid. She wants to imagine where he has been, to picture his heroics. After all, she lives in a whaling town, where there are myriad opportunities to learn about adventure and distant places. She tells Molly also that she never wants to live far from her mother.
Petra wrote: "Julie wrote: "I find myself increasingly irritated (and even disgusted) by Philip's refusal to see Sylvia as a human being with her own preferences and a right to have them--even after being warne..."
I definitely agree with the point you are making. Philip assumes that, with Kinraid out of the way or seemingly not committed to Sylvia, he is naturally her future husband.
However, the question I find myself asking is not whether Philip is the right man for Sylvia but whether Sylvia is the right woman for Philip. Hester knows him well, loves him, respects him, and is aligned with his beliefs. Philip recognizes Sylvia's flaws (even though he really doesn't have any claim on her or right to judge her character), endures her mistreatment, but can't stop loving her.
Philip is worthy to take over for the Fosters. He is conscientious, honest, and trustworthy. He is drawn against his will to eat the apples of Sodom, and it brings out his bad qualities.
Sylvia is nymphlike, emotionally sensitive, and likes pretty things. Her life is circumscribed and fairly typical for a girl in her circumstances other than that she has uncommon beauty. She is also just becoming a woman (14 or 15 years old), so shouldn't be expected to have a complete and developed personality.
But I wonder if we would empathize with her as much if the book weren't entitled Sylvia's Lovers?
Great points Erich. Thank you for sharing with us a different perspective on Sylvia. William Coulson was favoured by Alice as a possible son-in-law, but not by Hester (chapter 7). It is also likely that Alice has seen her daughter's preference in the meantime and she also sees that as you said Sylvia is not the right person for Philip. Still, it is very likely that when "Alice gives Philip "a rebuke the motives to which were not entirely revealed even to herself.", she now "has designs on him as Hester's eventual husband. She wants both that Philip is worthy of Hester and that he pays her the attention that she deserves. Indeed, more than a year has passed between chapter 7 (after Darley's funeral in Autumn 1794) and chapter 13 (1 January 1796). Apart from her religiosity, Alice seems to be also very observant.
Sylvia is still very young. She was 17 in chapter 2 and possibly slightly above 18 right now. Her physical development as described earlier (chapter 10) shows that she has just come out of adolescence. Still, she "shouldn't be expected to have a complete and developed personality" as you said.
I do not think either that she wants to travel. I think it is more unconscious and fantasmic and as some of us put it, vicarious. I nevertheless agree with you on her infatuation leading her to be fascinated with far away places and Kinraid's stories.
Peter wrote: "Yes. Monkshaven is changing. The Fosters have decided to move forward from their mercantile life to one of finance. Philip and William are moving up from clerks in a store to owners of the store. S..."Great comment!
Philip obviously wants to settle Sylvia into his possibly square-angled and symmetrical future world - whereas she is a girl of nature and ballads and stories. Diametrically opposed to Philip, Kinraid is living in the here and now, appearing and sailing away to the seven seas. His unlimited world has no borders and he is not afraid of anything.
Claudia wrote: "William Coulson was favoured by Alice as a possible son-in-law, but not by Hester (chapter 7). It is also like..."Thank you for reminding me of that, Claudia! I wonder what Alice's unconscious motives would be, then. I'm sure we will find out!
I had planned writing more on specific details I noticed from Gaskell's technique, but shall instead elaborate on this sentence from Erich:But I wonder if we would empathize with her as much if the book weren't entitled Sylvia's Lovers?
I agree wholeheartedly, but would add that Gaskell is being very particular, clever, and sly about how she informs us about her characters and the whole of the story so far IMO. I could not comfortably decide whether the outcome will be comic, tragic, or seriocomic from what I have read since Gaskell uses various forms of deflection, misdirection, partial reveal, and other diverting techniques in her relating of the story. We often see characters from a selective omniscient POV that already has a firm bias. For example, Kinraid, is seen from mostly admirers eyes like Sylvia and her father, although there are a small number of opposite views being voiced by lesser characters. We see Philip in a perspective that mostly reflects Sylvia's thoughts about him, and it is only in the last few chapters is that view being offset. So what I am saying is that Gaskell is very carefully manipulating our empathies and while I haven't yet figured out where she is going to end up, I can certainly sense the manipulation.
Perhaps, that is why I was smiling a little more after the last chapter. Just like the brothers had a little dramatic fun with Philip and William before letting them know their true intentions, Gaskell is having some fun with her readers before letting them know her endgame. In the meantime, best to suspend judgements and trust in the author.
BTW, let me step back and comment on the little tidbit from the previous chapter that tells of the young girl, Phoebe, who has fulfilled a request from Philip that she hem a handkerchief for him in the promise of a reward and some attention. If we stopped reading the novel there, I would have been completely satisfied, given that the scene was so well written. I am a sentimentalist and was completely endeared to Gaskell's depiction of that scene.
Sam: your thoughts on techniques are always welcome!Just like the brothers had a little dramatic fun with Philip and William before letting them know their true intentions, Gaskell is having some fun with her readers before letting them know her endgame. In the meantime, best to suspend
judgements and trust in the author. : great parallel!
Indeed Mrs Gaskell is carefully manipulating our empathies! I have already seen readers (earlier, not now) being fooled by this in this novel. Therefore, let's take things as they come up.
Yes, the scene with little Phoebe was beautifully written!
Claudia wrote: "Still, it is very likely that when "Alice gives Philip "a rebuke the motives to which were not entirely revealed even to herself.", she now "has designs on him as Hester's eventual husband. She wants both that Philip is worthy of Hester and that he pays her the attention that she deserves."Philip is certainly a hit with the mothers!
I also like Erich's question about whether we'd sympathize so much with Sylvia if her name were not in the title of the book. I do find myself wondering why Gaskell chooses as the center of the story this character who is described on the back of my edition as "a wilful, imaginative, but not especially clever girl"--accurately so far, it seems to me. I guess most people are not especially clever (or it wouldn't be special). Is Gaskell going for realism?
Mod
Perhaps this is a bit of a stretch, but I do think that at this point Elizabeth Gaskell might be considering her titles very carefully.
Her first novel as we know is now referred to as Mary Barton, but if we look at the whole title, Mary Barton: A Tale of Manchester Life, it is the subtitle which indicates more of what it is about. Her second is after the location, Cranford, but both these focus on differing groups of people (an industrial city or a small inward looking village).
Her third is again named after the main character, Ruth. For her fourth, she wanted to repeat this winning formula and title it after the main character i.e."Margaret Hale", but Charles Dickens thought of and imposed the title we know it by, North and South, as part of the heavy editing which made them quarrel and caused the rift between them which never healed.
Presumably in this case Elizabeth Gaskell genuinely preferred the reconsidered title, as when she published it as a novel herself, (reinstating several chapters Charles Dickens had discarded) she did not change the title back. Do we think it is a better title? The novel certainly deals with wider issues, and its strong themes seem better indicated by Dickens's title, in my view. But the name does have Charles Dickens's stamp all over it!
The next two novels do not contain a person's name, but with Sylvia's Lovers Elizabeth Gaskell has reverted to her early focus on an individual female character, and making us consider her story arc by how she relates to each possible suitor. (Actually this title reminds rather of Thomas Hardy, who wrote several novels where the protagonist has 2 or 3 beaux 🤔)
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Nanette and Her Lovers: A Tale of Normandy (other topics)Mary Barton: A Tale of Manchester Life (other topics)
Cranford (other topics)
Ruth (other topics)
North and South (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Thomas Hardy (other topics)Elizabeth Gaskell (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Edgar Allan Poe (other topics)
Charles Perrault (other topics)
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Petra - Being a pretty woman in Mary Barton and Ruth was definitely not an asset.
Great point on this chapter as a "pause-chapter" allowing months and seasons to pass!
During this reading, I was struck with the many occurrences of "watching, gaze, staring at, etc." as echoes of the title "Visions of the future". Philip imagines Sylvia as his wife, now tamed, wearing a silk gown, perpetually under his gaze...