Dickensians! discussion
This topic is about
Sylvia's Lovers
All Around Dickens Year
>
Sylvia's Lovers by Elizabeth Gaskell 1: chapters 1-14 (hosted by Claudia)
Petra wrote: "Chapter 2:I enjoyed this chapter a lot. There was an innocence about two girls walking through the countryside talking with each other that was refreshing and serene somehow, but there are also un..."
Yes, interesting comment about the knotted handkerchief. I was thinking the same thing. At this time in history, I imagine girls weren’t receiving even rudimentary education so they would have to develop a good memory for any task with multiple steps or something like shopping. I suppose the list of items never varied much given what was available and their limited money.
The description of the multiple mindsets of those who waited for the ship was so well done. And they could not really even allow themselves to feel happy when the ship reached the harbor since they hadn’t seen their loved ones yet or assessed them for injuries. Their futures depended on what happened as every ship docked.
That duality is shown throughout this chapter. I’m looking forward to continuing.
Thank you, Claudia, for all the superb information. Nothing much to add to the discussion but feel the book is off to an excellent start.
I liked how Gaskell handled the move from broad background setting of chapter one to the specific focuses of chapter two. She managed to keep me engrossed and a lesser author could easily have lost he reader or had a rougher transition.In reading Gaskell again, I noticed she has this technique of writing that operates through a term I called deflection, though that term is inaccurate and inadequate. But what I mean is she will be often writing some detail but our attention should be elsewhere. I had forgotten about this since Mary Barton but am noticing her using the technique much more frequently here and in a more developed way with many varieties in use. A vague example in this chapter might be how we start with a marketing rn, and are deflected to a ship returning, but that in turn is a deflection from the important element which is not the ship's arrival but a character on the ship who has some importance to Sylvia. I really like how Gaskell employs her device and seeing it frequently used already, has me anticipating further examples. I do wish it had a name or better description than I have offered.
Also notice that despite the almost idyllic small town warmth of the chapter there is a foreboding element present, partially carried over from the earlier chapter but also implied in some the prose, and I am thinking placed very carefully by the author.
My last comment is a word of thanks to Claudia for her effort so far. I think you will agree that she has obviously put in a great deal of work for our benefit and it is making a positive difference in my appreciation of the book.
Just found my way to the discussion tonight. What wonderful and detailed comments and insights. I shall try and jump in as soon as I can.
Sam wrote: "I liked how Gaskell handled the move from broad background setting of chapter one to the specific focuses of chapter two. She managed to keep me engrossed and a lesser author could easily have lost..."Thank you Sam for this insightful observation and also your encouragement.
Sometimes we really need to stop and look at the whole picture as you did here. To be honest I have no idea about how to call it, but you described this deflection very clearly
Peter wrote: "Just found my way to the discussion tonight. What wonderful and detailed comments and insights. I shall try and jump in as soon as I can."Welcome Peter! No doubt we will appreciate your comments!
Thanks everyone!Yes, Molly's handkerchief as a shopping list was a funny thing - but put into the context of lesser literacy it makes sense. We will eventually talk of literacy again!
Now I am moving on to chapter 3 and will post another background note I think useful!
Chapter 3 – Buying a new cloakWe are now shown into Fosters’ shop, divided into a grocery and a drapery with a mercery department. John and Jeremiah Fosters are two Quaker brothers, following the spiritual and commercial tradition of their forefathers. They keep their shop open on Christmas Day but allow their employees not to work on that day. They are polite and hospitable people, who offer cake and wine on New Year Day to their customers who enter the shop. They are also pragmatic, as they, like many in Monkshaven, sell smuggled goods and have an organized system of welcoming smugglers through a secret corridor.
Philip Hepburn, Sylvia’s cousin, is a sales assistant. Hester Rose is also working with him in the shop and specifically in charge of items for women.
Philip is described as a serious, somewhat dull young man, tall but slightly stooped, not quite particularly handsome. He tries to influence Sylvia’s purchase of a red cloak, but she insists on her choice. He tends to lecture her, which she does not like. He insists on calling her Sylvie, a diminutive of her name, but she does not approve. He is also very critical of Sylvia’s gesture of kindness to one of the young girls who sang ”The Keel Row” earlier.
Suddenly Molly Corney bursts into the shop, upset because the joyous waiting for the whalers has been turned into a violent nightmare by the intruding press gangs, who kidnap the returning sailors before they even have had time to kiss their loved ones. Sylvia is particularly traumatised and faints. She is taken to Mr John Foster’s drawing room to recover. Mr John appears and withdraws on tiptoe so as not to disturb, but offers Sylvia and Molly a piece of cake and a glass of wine. He is clearly upset by what has happened and hopes that his warehouse staff will not join the angry crowd.
Molly eats half her portion and drinks half a glass of wine, as seems to be the custom, while Sylvia refuses all the cake and wine for reasons that are unclear but later she makes up for her refusal of hospitality.
Philip, encouraged by Mr Foster, decides to go with the girls and take Sylvia home to Haytersbank, the farm where she lives with her parents.
Hester is thoughtful and puzzled by Sylvia’s attitude when Mr John Foster offers the girls cake and wine to recover from their shock and she is also uneased when Philip sets off with them to walk them home.
CommentsThere is a real sense of unease throughout the chapter, first of all because of the dramatic and brutal intrusion of the press gangs, masterfully described by the narrator/writer, who knows instinctively how to tell us a story and hold our attention, using metaphors and images from the Greek myths and tragedies. “Half-amphibious boys” describes the running sailors as if they belonged to a special kind of human beings, not quite of this world. The joy of welcoming loved ones back home has been brutally destroyed, and cries of exhilaration have been replaced by the wailing, heartbreaking cries of “a Greek chorus”.
We may also feel uneasy because of the interactions between Sylvia and Philip, with a heavy load of latent hostility, yet perhaps childlike, from Sylvia towards Philip, but also his insistent attitude towards his cousin.
Most of the chapter is a description of characters between the lines. We are now acquainted with the Fosters, their background and their staff. Still, much is left unsaid, particularly as far as Sylvia’s and Philip’s relationship is concerned, but also concerning Hester’s relationship with Philip. Many unspoken questions remain unanswered, and despite the noisy intrusion of the press gangs and the reactions of the crowd outside, much is shrouded in silence inside, just like Hester’s thoughts in the closing lines of the chapter.
Hester Rose, the sales assistant, is described as a discreet person, who seems to have appropriate and considerate words and reactions in a situation of crisis (the irruption of impressment agents right outside the shop, “armed to teeth”, Sylvia’s fainting), without being much noticed and praised by those around her.
In this chapter, Hester is also a narrative means for introducing Sylvia to us as a relative of Philip’s. The text describes Sylvia’s striking, visible, natural beauty versus Hester's apparent plainness. Hester's thoughts on Sylvia’s appearance are a narrative opportunity to tell us that Hester's mother has already spoken of Sylvia in dismissive and even moralising terms. Hester, instead, has an inner beauty which is revealed when her grey eyes “looked at you, so honestly and kindly”. She is at first sight very serious and seems to be older than her age, but “her rare smile” and her gaze makes her “countenance very winning”. Her name is therefore very telling, as "Hester" (Esther) has a connotation of something “hidden” or “concealed” in Hebrew (trinary root, s-t-r-). Her professional occupation and experience with materials and clothes reminded a French scholar, Françoise Martin-Bernard of Hester Prynne's own profession as a seamstress, a creator of beauty, in The Scarlet Letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne.
Red cloakSylvia wants to buy a red duffle, not a grey one. She is attracted to the red colour, while Philip disapproves and advises her to choose a grey duffle – perhaps not only because a red cloak would catch the dust or the mud of the paths, but also because it would be more eye-catching. Hester, a quiet young girl, sees that Sylvia is unusually beautiful. For some reason Philip would prefer Sylvia to wear grey clothes. Is he influenced by Quaker simplicity, or is there more to it than meets the eye?
Sylvia’s red cloak may remind us of Little Red Riding Hood by Charles Perrault. It has been interpreted primarily as a warning about the dangers of trusting strangers and giving them personal information.
Some interpretations read this tale as a passage from childhood to adolescence, from the point of view of sexuality. The red cloak symbolises virginity, sexuality and passion. The forest is a symbol of unknown places where anything can happen, but also a piece of magic, a place of new possibilities. This fits with Sylvia’s childlike behaviour and curiosity about the unknown harpooner, Molly’s cousin.
Sylvia’s obsessive focus on the red cloak also reminded me of The Red Shoes, a tale by Hans Christian Andersen. Karen, the heroine, was obsessed with her red shoes, and this sad story shows how an obsession can take over and soon become out of control. The red shoes give Karen joy and satisfaction, and ultimately a sense of transcendent achievement. Clara Pinkola Estes in Women Who Run With the Wolves reads The Red Shoes as a symbol of the quest for freedom and Karen’s search for her inner soul and reconnecting with the fierce, healthy, visionary attributes of her female instinctual nature.
QuakersWhitby was one of the first Quaker communities and had a meetinghouse as early as 1652 when George Fox, originally from Leicestershire, visited and helped establish a congregation. He visited twice, in 1651 and 1652. The North and East Ridings of Yorkshire were among the first areas where he preached. Many shopkeepers and shipowners (including the owner of the ship on which Captain Cook was trained) were early Quakers.
A more recent meetinghouse in the 19th century, was sold and eventually transformed into an Italian restaurant, Cosa Nostra, in the early 2000ies. Some stones in an almost hidden graveyard are peaceful testimonies of an old Quaker life.
George Fox (1624-1691) was the founder of the Religious Society of Friends (see John 15:14) in times of social upheavals and wars and religious disputes and confusion. Frustrated by the Christian institutions around him, he spent years wandering the English countryside, seeking spiritual solace, sometimes consulting with ministers and other religious leaders—but, as he later wrote, “there was none among them all that could speak to my condition.”
“And when all my hopes in them and in all men were gone,” Fox continued, “so that I had nothing outwardly to help me, nor could tell what to do, then, oh, then, I heard a voice which said, ‘There is one, even Christ Jesus, that can speak to thy condition’; and when I heard it my heart did leap for joy.”
Inspired by this and other spiritual experiences, Fox continued to roam the land, only now he began sharing what he was learning with others. Gradually, he began to connect with others who were similarly dissatisfied by the Church of England and the other Protestant churches available to them. Coming together as the Religious Society of Friends, these early believers set out to return to the roots of Jesus’s teachings around nonviolence and God’s concern for the marginalized, with a firm belief in everyone’s capacity for immediate and equal access to God’s spirit. They saw what they were doing as taking Christianity back to its source. (Another famous early Quaker, William Penn, the founder of Pennsylvania, even called one of his books Primitive Christianity Revived.)
Their opponents mocked Friends as “Quakers” for the way their bodies often shook when they were overcome with spiritual energy.
George Fox was often arrested and jailed. He exhorted a judge at Derby in 1650 to “tremble at the word of the Lord”.
Friends believe in each human’s ability to be guided by the inward light to “make the witness of God” known to everyone. They profess the priesthood of all believers inspired by the First Epistle of Peter, and the avoidance of creeds and hierarchical structures, as every human being is believed to have “that of God” (as said George Fox) in him.
Quakers used “thee” as an ordinary pronoun, refuse to participate in wars and to take oaths and oppose slavery, considering that all human beings are created equal. They privilege simplicity and plain dress. Quakers were persecuted and labelled as a dangerous sect. The Quaker Act was issued in 1662 because Quakers refused to take oaths and pledge allegiance to the King.
Some early Quaker ministers were women, like Margaret Fell, Fox’s wife.
Nowadays Friends have two sorts of worship: programmed worship (prayers, hymns and Bible preaching) or unprogrammed worship, also called silent, of waiting worship. In this last form of worship, Friends are sitting silently in “expectant waiting upon God”, to experience his still small voice leading them from within through a participant who feels led to stand up and share a “spoken ministry” in front of others.
Early Quakers disapproved of holidays, considering that no date or time is more sacred than others. They name the days of the week, beginning from Sunday, First Day, Second Day and so on. Quaker shopkeepers would open their shops on Christmas day.
Today, the Religious Society of Friends is a global faith community with significant diversity in terms of its members’ theological principles and religious practices. Some meetinghouses are open on Christmas day and celebrate quietly. Celebrating birthdays is an individual matter, as those who wish to celebrate prefer to keep low-key.
George Fox, whose visions helped shape the Society in its early days, offered Friends some crucial advice on how to live:
“Be patterns, be examples in all countries, places, islands, nations wherever you come,” he wrote; “that your carriage and life may preach among all sorts of people, and to them; then you will come to walk cheerfully over the world, answering that of God in every one; whereby in them you may be a blessing, and make the witness of God in them to bless you.”
(Sources: Wikipedia, a Quaker course I took years ago, but also special thanks to Ron Hogan of Quaker.org)
Even if there are not many Friends nowadays, they are alive and well. We already know a few of them, for instance, Walt Whitman and President Richard Nixon had a Quaker family background, as has Dame Judy Dench. Joan Baez’s parents were also members of a Quaker community.
Thank you for your attention!It is up to you now until Wednesday 9th April and Chapter 4.
The author keeps mentioning the color of Sylvia's new cloak so it probably is important. It seems very normal for an adolescent like Sylvia to choose the red cloak. She's pretty and she'll want to catch the eye of a young man. From what we've seen of her so far, Sylvia reacts with great emotion. The red cloak is not as practical as a grey cloak, but she can choose darker clothes when she is older. I wonder if Philip is afraid that the wrong type of man will be attracted to Sylvia in a red cloak, so he keeps insisting that a grey cloak would be more suitable. Does he have a romantic interest in Sylvia,or is he just a protective cousin?
Thanks for all your great commentary, Claudia.
Theresa wrote: "Ah, thanks! For any in this group that know me from other groups - such as Kelly - I am known for speaking up and being quite active in discussions when it's something I am reading, have read, or k..."SO happy to see you here, Theresa!
I seems apparent to me that Phillip is interested in Sylvia for himself and she is not interested in him at all. She might have bought the grey (since it was what her mother preferred) had Phillip not insisted. Once he did, her mind was set on the red. In the first chapter there is a passage about Yorkshiremen: "My country folk are all alike. Their first thought is how to resist. Why? I myself, if I hear a man say it is a fine day, catch myself trying to find that is no such thing." I think this is a trait we are going to find in Sylvia and that it will not always serve her well.
I loved that you mentioned Hester Prynne, Claudia, because I thought of her in connection with this Hester. (I re-read The Scarlet Letter not long ago, so she was easily brought to mind). It is always nice to have such connections justified by others. I shall be watching for how much these two women have in common.
Hester is thoughtful and calm and bears no resentment for the fact that Sylvia is so attractive and lively. I would guess that Sylvia would not be so generous and would be very unhappy to see the attentions turned from her to Hester. I think the contrast is going to be important going forward.
The descriptions of the gang-pressing were marvelous and left me with a lump in my throat. Imagine waiting so long to see someone you loved (I thought of the girl with the baby her husband had not ever seen) and then having them dragged away without so much as an allowance for a touch or a kiss...and not by the enemy, but by your own countrymen.
Claudia wrote: "Now we are straight into action! Imagine the half Pagan bacchanal of girls singing "Wheel may the keel row", a well-known ballad with several different lyrics, and tunes still in use in some Army m..."Thank you for sharing this gorgeous rendition of the song. I opened back to the page the song lyrics were on and really enjoyed imagining the girls singing this song as they waiting for their fathers, brothers, and loves to come in.
Thank you for all of your hard work, Claudia! This is amazing and really adding to my read.Something that really caught my attention in Chapter 3 was the talk of smuggling. "Everyone in Monkshaven smuggled who could, and every one wore smuggled goods who could..." This surprised me somewhat, along with the fact that it "did not go against the consciences of those good brothers to purchase smuggled articles".
Your comment on this, Claudia, helps me to understand it better. Since they live in a coastal town, they must be realistic as to the practice of smuggling and incorporate it in to their practical existance? I still find it interesting that they would do this!
I liked learning more history about the Quakers than what I already knew. I live in Ohio, which neighbors Pennsylvania where the largest population of Quakers in the United States live. I admire the Quakers for their pacifism and emphasis on equality.
Thank you so much everyone for your comments and encouraging words!Connie: Philip may be wanting to protect Sylvia from "bad influences" and indeed wearing a red cloak was most probably considered immodest... Philip lectured Sylvia after he saw her shaking hands with "Newcastle Bessie" of ill reputation.
Sara: Yes, the two Hesters are equally low-key and modest, helping those who crossed their way. Hester Prynne wears a scarlet letter for the reason we know, but would rather go unnoticed, while Hester Rose does go unnoticed. Some comments describe her as a foil for Sylvia but I think she is more than that!
You are so dramatically right about impressment by your countrymen in the harsh way described by the young mother whose husband could not even kiss her and the baby born in his absence.
Kelly: The ballad originated from Newcastle upon Tyne because there was a close-knit community of keelmen there, rowing keels (flat boats) down the Tyne and carrying coals to the waiting colliers for export to London and everywhere. Ballads were definitely a way of telling stories in old times, when many could not read nor write.
An extra post for Kelly and all! It will make more sense in chapter 4.Smuggling
Smuggling was a widespread activity in the Whitby area in the 18th century, because of a favourable topography: high cliffs, hidden coves, isolated housing. The whole population was somehow involved in smuggling: seamen, farmers who could hide goods in wheelbarrows full of sea kelp for fertilizing their fields, shopkeepers, peddlers…
Some goods were highly taxed, among others tea, spirituous drinks as rum and brandy, silk and lace (hinted at by Sylvia), spices and salt.
Here is an interesting link to smuggling around Whitby:
https://www.thewhitbyguide.co.uk/smug...
Just checking in and saying I'm behind because of work demands - which tends to happen. I'll catch up reading easily at the end of the week and after reading all the comments and additional material provided here, join in the chat. Meanwhile, just want to mention an amusing bit of synchronicity that happened this weekeing: I started reading an historical mystery, Death of an Avid Reader by Frances Brody, part of a series set in Leeds, England. This particular one - #6 I believe though I've read no others - is set in 1925 and deals with a child put up for adoption that the birth mother is trying to locate -- and there is concern that she was killed in the 1914 bombardment of the East Coast as she was adopted into a Scarborough family. Scarborough is just down the coast from Whitby - and Whitby is actually mentioned in passing.
I'm not far into the book, and all action is back in Leeds (our lady detective confirmed she survived the bombardment and at some point the family moved to Leeds from Scarborough) but I laughed out loud when I read that section!
Theresa wrote: "Just checking in and saying I'm behind because of work demands - which tends to happen. I'll catch up reading easily at the end of the week and after reading all the comments and additional materia..."Great synchronicity!
I agree with everyone who keyed in on importance of the cloak’s colour. Grey blends in with everyone, and in other ways, everything. Red, on the other hand, stands out. That Sylvia would insist on red tells us much about her character. The title of the novel tells us what may well become a focal point in the novel.The presence of the press gang serves as the first disruption. As mentioned above, the fact that men who have been long at sea are scooped up and away from the arms of their wives and lovers signals love being lost. The cruelty of being so close to home but being forced to fight a war instead of embracing loved ones offers many possibilities for plot development to come.
It appears that the plot lines are being subtly drawn for the novel.
Sylvia's character is being drawn in more detail too. She acts on her emotions, though that is not always according to social norms, such as reaching out to the girl she had met on the street earlier. And then defends her act to her cousin. Then she insists on the red fabric for the cloak which is a rebellious act made stronger by her dislike of her cousin. Since men had authority over women in those times, is Sylvia learning a dangerous way of living. Ignoring Philip this day may not have any carryover since he is her cousin, but what if Sylvia gets used to being a rebel? What if she doesn't listen to important people?
Thanks for your great comments Peter and Sue and everyone above!Let's go on!
Chapter 4 – Philip HepburnThe chapter begins with a description of the harsh landscape, high cliffs, steep ways down half hidden in the rock, wind-swept moors where trees dare not grow, isolated farms, green pastures. These rugged areas are the realm of the smugglers.
We now discover Haytersbank, one of these isolated farms, perched on a slight rise. Yet the farmhouse is described as cosy and warm. Its inhabitants, Daniel and Bell Robson, Sylvia's parents, are atypical. Daniel is a jack of all trades, a former whaler, smuggler, horse trader and now farmer. He married late, and the narrative voice conveys the general opinion that Bell, who is more educated and unlike local housewives around her, more inclined to cleaning and tidying, did not make the best choice. Daniel talks a lot, while Bell is more of a silent type. She is Philip's aunt. In fact, Philip Hepburn has told the Robsons that the farm was to be let, so Daniel had given up his unsuccessful horse-trading business and become a farmer. There is also mention of Kester, the Robson's farm servant. The Robsons are worried because it's seven o'clock and Sylvia hasn't returned from town yet.
Finally, Sylvia arrives with Philip Hepburn. The women have a frugal meal of warm milk and bread, while Daniel offers Philip a hot drink of gin. (Probably smuggled in). Sylvia tells her parents about the arrival of the whaling ships and the invasion of the press gangs. Daniel protests the kidnapping of sailors and expresses his political views, while Philip insists on the Navy's need for more sailors to fight the French Navy. Aided by his alcoholic drink, the conversation tends to escalate on Daniel's side, while Sylvia and her mother start their homework. Sylvia is spinning some flax and Bell is knitting.
Philip keeps watching Sylvia as she is spinning. The narrator compares her arms and graceful gestures to a young girl playing the harp.
Comments. We meet Sylvia's parents, both different from each other, in their environment: a small farm dedicated to the subsistence of the family, producing cow's milk and butter and breeding sheep whose fleece is transformed into wool. In the evening, after a frugal meal, the women weave and knit, having finished their work of washing pots and dishes. They are never idle and do not stay up late, as they must be economical with candles and get up early in the morning to work. We also get a glimpse into the alchemy of this small family: a talkative and spontaneous father, a mother of few words, yet more educated, with a repressed everlasting sadness when she remembers her loss of a baby boy years ago. This picture of a happy family in a warm home beaten by sharp east winds (another duality again!) is Sylvia's world, within tight borders and regular habits but on the shore of a wide ocean (as the North Sea was still called, but with an opening on further seas).
. We are given many domestic details: how the farmhouse is laid out, how it is furnished and heated. These details add to the realism of the story.
. Everyone speaks the local dialect to varying degrees. Daniel Robson may seem at first particularly difficult to understand. In my opinion, the written Yorkshire dialect is easier to understand than the spoken dialect. We recall that some commentators of her time criticised Mrs Gaskell for her choice to transcribe the local dialect, which may sound off-putting to readers. In my opinion it is not a big deal. We will soon get used to it and it adds to the realism of the story.
. Philip Hepburn seems measured but also withdrawn in his thoughts and a little obsessed with Sylvia. Is he in love with her? Is his attitude healthy? Sylvia feels uncomfortable with Philip when he is insistently staring at her while she is spinning. Her choice of a scarlet cloak symbolises her desire for pursuing her own dreams. I do not think that Philip is meant to be in the picture.
. Impressment is a touchy subject for Daniel Robson and for everyone who is closely confronted by this subject right now, as everyone's nerves are on edge. The American Revolution ended in 1783 - not very long ago indeed. The news of the impressment of just returned sailors wakes up rough memories in Daniel Robson, himself a sailor back then. Daniel is very sensitive as far as individual freedom is concerned ("Nation, nation, go hang! (...) Laws is made for to keep some folks from harming others. Press-Gangs and coast-guards harm me in my business, and keep me from getting what I want") while Philip seems to be more compliant with the community and its cohesion: "But, asking pardon, laws is made for the good of the nation, not for your good or mine."
Over to you!We will read Chapter 5 on Friday 11 April !
Sue wrote: "Sylvia's character is being drawn in more detail too. She acts on her emotions, though that is not always according to social norms, such as reaching out to the girl she had met on the street earli..."Yes. There is a subtle undercurrent running through the first chapters of the novel. This book reminds me of the beginning moves in a chess match. Each move, on its own, seems somewhat insignificant. Long term goals, however, are in play.
Peter wrote: "Sue wrote: "Sylvia's character is being drawn in more detail too. She acts on her emotions, though that is not always according to social norms, such as reaching out to the girl she had met on the ..."I fully agree with you! It is very much about details, images and symbols.
Thanks Claudia There are always so many ways and directions to approach a good novel. I think I’ll spend much time following Gaskell’s use of colour for this read.
A good starting point is the coat. Red or Grey. Sylvia choses red and that begins to open up the floodgates of interpretation. We have alway seen a connection to the novel ‘The Scarlett Letter.’ Keeping with ‘Sylvia’s Lovers’ I think of the subtle introduction of ribbons and their colour. We see Sylvia associated with a blue ribbon. Also in the chapter is a mention of Sylvia with a ‘bunch of gay coloured ribbon.’
When Sylvia returns home she enters the door and ‘looked very rosy from the walk.’ Philip is associated with liking the colour grey. I really enjoyed how Gaskell tells the reader that he moved his chair ‘so as to look at her [Sylvia] as much as was in his power.’ Ah, interesting.
In the 19C ribbons were used by the poor to give the wearer a pop,of colour, to enlighten the character, to make them stand out and appear as an individual. The below link is to a wonderful painting by Tissot done in 1885, a bit after our book, but still gives us a look at how ribbons were valued and used symbolically by artists/authors in their work. I live in Toronto and have often enjoyed seeing this painting at the Art Gallery of Ontario. As fate would have it the gallery is now in the middle of presenting an exhibition of Tissot’s work.
I’ll keep my eye out for more colour and perhaps the use of ribbons as we read on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sho...
Thank you Jean for the painting! And Peter for mentioning Tissot (to be honest I did not know him...)Yes Peter the red colour is to be kept in mind - without revealing anything (rosy cheeks, ruddy hand in this chapter, red lips somewhere else). You are right about ribbons! They too are already a discreetly recurring theme. In Chapter 3, Sylvia was interested in a crimson ribbon in Fosters' shop before buying the red duffle.
I am finding these first 4 chapters to be filling my mind with so much detail of the landscape, the community, the people, and the characters we are going to be following for quite some time. It always takes me a bit to get my mind adjusted to reading novels of this era just to hear the language the way it’s written and to get my head around a different time and place and not allow modern sensibilities to encroach! I am taking everything in from all of Claudia’s expert information and extras to all of the comments from our group. I appreciate everyone’s comments. For example, I would never have connected The Scarlet Letter so now that has me interested in reading that again. I appreciate the historical perspective which puts the events and happenings all over the world into our narrative. I always seem to get more knowledge of the things of the sea and maritime culture when I read Dickens and Victorian literature. I must say that the descriptions of the scraggly, rocky and bleak landscape surrounding this area must have been a smuggler’s dream with so many places to hide. It actually sounds very dangerous.
Hello Everyone!I am joining in starting today. I have some catching up to do so plan to work through the chapters and your messages. Once I've caught up, I'll add my thoughts.
Thank you Claudia for hosting; I've learned a lot already.
Sylvia's discomfort around Philip is so strong, I'm waiting to learn what has made their being anywhere near each other so uncomfortable for her. Is it just his obvious interest in her or is there a back story, I wonder. It's also appears to me that Sylvia comes from a close and loving home. But are her parents allowing her more freedom than other girls her age in town?
Thank you Lori! It took indeed four chapters and a few background posts to set the scene and feel "at home".Sue you are asking pertinent and thought provoking questions...
Herzlich Willkommen Erich! Nice to see you again! Thank you for your patience while reading some lengthy preliminary posts. We are looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
A tiny note on the red cloak againJenny Uglow, in her biography of Elizabeth Gaskell (Elizabeth Gaskell), stressed out how much Sylvia "pulses with life" (her "defiant private purchase" of a scarlet cloak instead of a grey one). She "responds bodily to the flux of emotions in the town" when she fainted.
Now moving on to Chapter 5!
Chapter 5 – The Press GangA few days later, the weather became very humid and depressing, "in a constant drizzle", "acting on the nerves of the excitable (...), affecting the sensitive or the materially ill".
Daniel Robson was unable to move because of his rheumatism and was confined to the corner of the chimney. Frustrated, he acts as a "domestic Jupiter" and has his say on every domestic issue. His wife and daughter do most of the work, with the help of Kester, the farmhand. We are given many domestic and professional details of the small farm: the cow shed, the loft where the fleece reserved for the home spinning is stored, the scouring of pots and pans, the churn and the turning of cheese that is drying and ripening. Bell would be happy Philip would visit them but Sylvia is not enthusiastic about this.
Sylvia, instead, asks Kester to find Harry Donkin, the travelling tailor, who is at this time of the year, out and about in Monkshaven, and ask him to come to Haytersbank. He arrives the following day and is given some old clothes to mend while he happily shares news from the little town with Daniel.
He tells of the violence of the press gangs at the arrival of the whaling ships. Four men were brutally kidnapped from the Resolution, while the Good Fortune put up a brave resistance to the Navy's agents, leading to serious skirmishes, and sadly returned with her flag on half mast. Charley Kinraid, the specksioneer, tried to protect his comrades and urged them to hide behind hatches but the Navy agents shot at the hatches. One sailor was killed aboard The Good Fortune, another was left for dead, others were severely injured and the entire crew and their relatives in town are now traumatized.
Charley Kinraid, the Good Fortune's chief harpooner, happens to be the badly wounded victim left for dead. According to Donkin, he fought bravely, had two guns and a huge knife - the kind they use to kill whales - and faced press gangs armed to the teeth. Public opinion, as conveyed by Harry Donkin, sees him as a hero. He was full of energy and strength and has a reasonable chance of recovery, as he was quickly given first aid care and subsequent medical attention.
Sylvia is holding her breath all the time, even reluctant to move and give the tailor a hot iron in case he suspends his account.
Daniel is outraged and remembers his own time, decades ago, when he was on a whaling ship and sailors were kidnapped for the war in America.
Donkin completes his account:
“…and t' Aurora carried 'em off, wounded men, an' able men, an' all: leaving Kinraid for dead, as wasn't dead, and Darley for dead, as was dead, an' t' captain and master's mate as were too old for work; and t' captain, as loves Kinraid like a brother, poured rum down his throat, and bandaged him up, and has sent for t' first doctor in Monkshaven for to get t' slugs out; for they say there's niver such a harpooner in a' t' Greenland seas; an' I can speak fra' my own seeing he's a fine young fellow where he lies theere, all stark and wan for weakness and loss o' blood. But Darley's dead as a door-nail; and there's to be such a burying of him as niver was seen afore i' Monkshaven, come Sunday.”
Sylvia's curiosity and imagination are now aroused. She wants badly to see Molly Corney and hopes to glean more details. Therefore she pretends - and even persuades herself - to be needing some advice on her cloak. She goes straight to Moss Brow. She is curious about Molly's exact relationship to Charley Kinraid. Is he just a relative or more than that?
A hero is emergingCharley Kinraid is now mentioned for the second time in the novel. Until now, Sylvia dimly felt an aura of mystery around him when Molly first mentioned him as her cousin (or more than her cousin?)
This time Charley is shown in the middle of a fierce action: the boarding of the Good Fortune by a tender manned by impressment agents fetching recruits for HM frigate Aurora. Charley is thrown into a new role, not only a cousin, not only a nice young bachelor, not only a specksioneer but a hero involved in the protection of his shipmates, concealing a knife under a tarpaulin, hurrying his comrades down through hatches for cover, holding guns and showing temerity in a perilous situation. Being severely wounded adds to his heroism, as the admiration of his deeds may be mixed with fear for his life.
We read – in the tailor’s story – that Charley is strong and full of life “Life's stuff is in him yet.” says Donkin.
A second-hand taleWe are given a second-hand account of a brutal action on board the Good Fortune - irony of fate! - by the travelling tailor, whose job takes him from farm to farm or house to house, performing menial tasks.
In fact, Harry Donkin mentions that he heard this from the Captain of the Good Fortune. He honestly admits that he is not quite sure of what the captain exactly said to the Navy men.
Them's the words he told me, but whether he spoke 'em out so bold at t' time, I'se not so sure; they were in his mind for t' speak, only maybe prudence got t' better on him, for he said he prayed i' his heart to bring his cargo safe to t' owners, come what might.
Similarly, Mrs Gaskell heard such stories from her landlady's mother. While visiting Whitby, Elizabeth Gaskell made the acquaintance of Mr Corney, who lent her a History of Whitby by the Reverend George Young, himself contemporary of those events. George Young - as an accomplished geologist, a talented theologian and a much-loved pastor – was described as a guiding light of Whitby.
In this chapter, Mrs Gaskell might as well have narrated the events onboard the Good Fortune without involving anyone else. Mrs Gaskell seems at first sight to be taking a convoluted route: a foggy-rainy and depressingly humid weather, Mr Robson’s rheumatic bouts, Sylvia, through Kester, discreetly summoning the itinerant tailor to come over and do some work but also for cheering up Mr Robson and secondarily (if not primarily) convey some news from town, while all this converges towards Charley Kinraid. From a narrative perspective, Mrs Gaskell is doing perhaps what Sam described earlier under "deflection", and this is a success.
Elizabeth Gaskell simply steps back from her role as omniscient narrator and listens to the voice of local witnesses, as she did when she visited Whitby. Harry Donkin may perhaps be a character we will never meet again, but in these circumstances, he proves to be a very lively storyteller, who conveys his opinion about Kinraid’s attitude during the press-gang attack. The dialect and some of his picturesque phrases certainly add value to his story, this is why I posted a long and savourous quote in my summary. We the readers end up being as engrossed in his account as are the Robsons.
I am looking forward to reading your comments!We will discuss Chapter 6 on Saturday 12 April
I thoroughly enjoyed this chapter. I actually found the winding path Gaskell takes to get the story of the press-gang to be very entertaining. Daniel’s inability to work allows us to see a woman’s response to a man telling her how to perform her own duties brings a humorous element to the story. No offense to the men, but generally, ailments are just not something they are able to handle very well. We get to see more of Sylvia’s position on Phillip to know that she is not interested. She’d go out of her way, possibly give up her red cloak to pay for the mending to avoid Phillip.
I loved the detail in the middle of the tailor’s story when we hear how Sylvia doesn’t want to put the iron in the fire fearing the sound and movement would stop him from telling the story.
And the possibility of a hero emerging in Charley Kinraid is exciting. I think Gaskell did a fabulous job moving the plot a lot toward us meeting Kinraid and hearing a different version of what happened at the wharf. There is always going to be a unique spin on each story whether they witnessed the event or are telling it second or third hand. It’s one reason eye-witness accounts aren’t very reliable.
ClaudiaA great chapter with lots to appreciate with its construction. Yes,
Harry Donkin is a vital character to the plot and we may not see him again. Still, being an itinerant tailor has many undertones. His occupation is to fix/repair/make items. In terms of plot, his job is to bring separate stories and events together for Sylvia and her family. He acts as a conduit for the town. An Everyman.
I loved the phrase that the mists of the town was so thick that people breathed more water than air. So much said in so few words.
Kincaid has attracted Sylvia’s interest. He is the vibrant colour red to the bland grey of Philip.
I must confess, however, that I always struggle with dialect. This chapter was a bit hard for me to decode. Hope I got most of the dialect correct.
Mod
I am happy to know that you are enjoying this very well done chapter, Lori!Great points in the interpretation of the function of the itinerant tailor here, Peter!
The dialect is no big deal, you soon get used to it. There are translations of some more difficult words in the endnotes of Oxford and Penguin, but some other expressions are understandable, sometimes depending on our own linguistic background (German was sometimes helpful for me). My Italian teacher who lent us many books told us to read on, until we definitely felt lost, and only then look up the most recurring words. It worked out well! In this very case, just ask Jean!
I've caught up with our reading. Got a little behind these past couple of days.As already mentioned, the descriptions in these last two chapters puts us in the scene. One can see the buildings, feel the weather. It's very well done.
I, too, wonder about the background of Sylvia & Philip's story and why she has such an aversion of him. Is it a "creepiness" due to him always watching her so closely, or is there more to the story?
Charlie Kincaid is set to be an interesting and important character going forward. He's going to add some color to the story going forward, I think.
Like others, I had some trouble with the dialect in this chapter, but I'm starting to get the hang of it, I think. It does slow down my reading. LOL.
I have been busy too, keeping up with the reading but neglecting my posts. I would like to emphasize Gaskell's humor. In a serious complex novel we can sometimes miss it paying attention to dialects or just trying to follow the plot, but I think Gaskell can be quite funny as seen when Daniel Robson, a man of "active habits and somewhat inactive mind...is "directing his wife in the boiling of potatoes..." I think we may be meant to see Philip humorously as he tries to warm up to Sylvia, doing nearly everything wrong and she tries to fend him off. Gaskell moves from humor to seriousness quickly though so we have to ready ready to change with her. I also really liked how Gaskell developed the confrontation with the press gang, introducing it through the impressions of dramatic effect it had on the town, and now returning with a detailed recounting.
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Nanette and Her Lovers: A Tale of Normandy (other topics)Mary Barton: A Tale of Manchester Life (other topics)
Cranford (other topics)
Ruth (other topics)
North and South (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Thomas Hardy (other topics)Elizabeth Gaskell (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Edgar Allan Poe (other topics)
Charles Perrault (other topics)
More...
This duality permeates the whole text, as do some other elements, images or symbols which eventually come through!