Should "Race Change to Another" Identities be Accepted?

[mal]

Race is more than just skin color—it is about history, culture, and lived experiences. A person cannot truly "change" their race because they will never fully understand what it means to grow up in a different racial group. Changing race can also feel like cultural appropriation, where someone takes parts of another culture without experiencing its struggles. Unlike gender, which has more social flexibility, race is tied to ancestry and genetics, which cannot be changed. Allowing people to change their race could also lead to unfair advantages, like claiming benefits meant for marginalized communities. Some people might even abuse this idea to gain social, financial, or legal advantages, like applying for scholarships, job opportunities, or legal protections intended for a specific racial group. Because of these reasons, race should not be something people can just change at will.

Well, i probably just yapped.

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Okay but for those same reasons women have historically struggled and bio men wont get that

[mal]

Midnightbutterfly, are you talking to me? And if so, could you elaborate on what you mean?

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Mal [Offline] wrote: "Midnightbutterfly, are you talking to me? And if so, could you elaborate on what you mean?"

Women have struggled and so how could biological men understand that? Just as white people, for examole, cant understand the struggles of other races.

Is the argument you are putting forward

[mal]

Bio men cannot understand how women have struggled, yes.
Yes, that's the argument I put forward. Whites who have 'converted races' will get the benefits of being white AND the benefits of being whatever race they have 'converted' as people don't want to seem as hating.

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Do you agree with transgender people being acceoted as an ideintiy?

[mal]

Transgender people are not related here. They have changed their gender. Not race.
Also, could you elaborate, I'm a little slow

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

I have exaplined the same argument but i coukd sub out race and gender, both are wrong if you use the same principles of your argument

[mal]

I didn't see it from that angle. I have no response to that right now.

I guess, it's not exactly the same. Gender and race are two different things and people changing gender will get to use stuff for the gender. But in the gender change, I don't fully support it either. If a man who converted into a woman goes to a bio female bathroom, then I'm against it.
Same here, if u use privileges made for a certain racial group and you were not born in that race, then you're wrong here.

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Why are the two different

[Barnette ⋆˙⟡ (my girlfriend's version), Creator, Head Moderator]

MidnightButterfly wrote: "Why are the two different"

Because race and gender are completely different concepts...

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Barnette wrote: "MidnightButterfly wrote: "Why are the two different"

Because race and gender are completely different concepts..."

They are both social constrcuts and both can be changed and both were/are ostracised (the trans elements)

[mal]

Race refers to which ethnicity you belong to and gender refers to your sex (Note that transgender are what they truly feel like. I personally believe that's it's a little odd ~no hate to my trans friends~ because that's what I've been taught)

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Okay so ethnicity and sex are bith bioloigical and race and gender are how we expericne them. Whats the difference if you change one

[Barnette ⋆˙⟡ (my girlfriend's version), Creator, Head Moderator]

Mal [Offline] wrote: "Race refers to which ethnicity you belong to and gender refers to your sex (Note that transgender are what they truly feel like. I personally believe that's it's a little odd ~no hate to my trans f..."

Gender is different from sex, and yes they're social constructs but they are different

[mal]

See, it's also how you view these things. I consider race change bad but not gender change. I suppose you can change your race and gender but obviously not your sex and ethnicity. And you can't also ask people to respect your views on how you are. Some people might respect them and some might not so you cannot crash out on them.

[Barnette ⋆˙⟡ (my girlfriend's version), Creator, Head Moderator]

Mal [Offline] wrote: "See, it's also how you view these things. I consider race change bad but not gender change. I suppose you can change your race and gender but obviously not your sex and ethnicity. And you can't als..."

Exactly

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

So this is double standards

[mal]

I suppose it is double standards but trans ppl are more likely to get accepted then a 'Asian' white person. And when rctas are treated like the people of their new race, they complain.
And Ray, we'll give them equal rights but the rest of it, I didn't understand, please elaborate.

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Uh, well, at the moment rctas are more accepted than trans. But again, we are treating it as 2025, but the thing is that trans people were not accepted before either. Its just an issue of we are at the same stage that trans people were a few decades ago

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

how do you suggest we convince people to recognize a white person as black or asian because they say they are?

But the issue is a lot of women arent cinvinced trans women are women because they say they are, for example

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Theres a difference between being a bioloigcal woman and trans woman

Just as beung a changed asian person and bioloigcal asian person

The differences need to be acknoweldged

[mal]

MidnightButterfly wrote: "Theres a difference between being a bioloigcal woman and trans woman

Just as beung a changed asian person and bioloigcal asian person

The differences need to be acknoweldged"


Yes, if u are 'asian' don't abuse it. So, I know a trans woman and she walked into the women's bathroom. If bio women feel uncomfortable with a trans being there, then the trans woman should leave. The same applies to rctas.

[Barnette ⋆˙⟡ (my girlfriend's version), Creator, Head Moderator]

ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "a cis woman will never know what it’s like to be denied to use the woman’s bathroom because people don’t think she’s “woman enough” nor will a cis woman ever know what it’s like to be fetishized fo..."

Exactly

[gia]

ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "i think instead of turning this back to trangender folks we need to actually put rctas through the same questioning because every time we question on rctas, trans folks are brought up yet rctas are..."

literally

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

So we need to ask trans people why they feel they are different from rctas?

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

So either both are wrong, both are right or one is wring and the other right but right/wrong have different definitions according to different people in this cintext as there are no moral absolutues

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

But scienifitc research changes over time. As in, as time goes, science can come with different conclusions

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "are u advocating blind acceptance then?"

No, i am advocating debate and discussion

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "okay but we barely have any to start with"

True, we should research both trans and rctas
I am just unsure as to what it would lead to when both are internal feelings

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

No i agree youre right. There should be solid research done into both

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Well for transgender people there is still so much murkiness, esepcially on the surgery

[Barnette ⋆˙⟡ (my girlfriend's version), Creator, Head Moderator]

MidnightButterfly wrote: "ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "okay but we barely have any to start with"

True, we should research both trans and rctas
I am just unsure as to what it would lead to when both are int..."

No, actually there's been research that shows that transgender people actually have the mind of the sex they transition to. As in a trans man is born with the mind of a bio man but the body of a woman. Correct me if I'm wrong

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Barnette wrote: "MidnightButterfly wrote: "ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "okay but we barely have any to start with"

True, we should research both trans and rctas
I am just unsure as to what it would..."

There is also researxh that suggests the opposite. Research is still really really at the start stages and theres barely enough out there

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "MidnightButterfly wrote: "Well for transgender people there is still so much murkiness, esepcially on the surgery"

yeah and that’s valid I get why people are skeptical on the surgeries I mean I am..."

Agreed

[Barnette ⋆˙⟡ (my girlfriend's version), Creator, Head Moderator]

ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "Barnette wrote: "MidnightButterfly wrote: "ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "okay but we barely have any to start with"

True, we should research both trans and rctas
I am just unsure as..."

Ah okay

[Barnette ⋆˙⟡ (my girlfriend's version), Creator, Head Moderator]

MidnightButterfly wrote: "Barnette wrote: "MidnightButterfly wrote: "ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "okay but we barely have any to start with"

True, we should research both trans and rctas
I am just unsure as..."

Good point

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Majority of brain scans have shown that trans people have different brain scans from any cisgender

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

"The brains of transgender women ranged between cisgender men and cisgender women (albeit still closer to cisgender men), and the differences to both cisgender men and to cisgender women were significant" is the source you linked

[Barnette ⋆˙⟡ (my girlfriend's version), Creator, Head Moderator]

ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "this was the closest I could find to what you’re talking about https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles..."

here this reddit post gives more sourc..."

Thank you!

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Trans male/cis male= SRY gene

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Some female (1/800000) have XY chrmosomes but men dont have XX chromosomes

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

So really most studies just show that trans brains in general are just different but not really comparable to directly a bio man or woman

[gia]

I mean brains shouldnt necessarily be labeled based on sex/gender. i mean generally, yes

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

So if it isnt the brain we are looking at to identfy if they really are aligned to thier chosen gender/race, then what?

[gia]

I guess the brain is too complex to determine such broad concepts, but i get your point

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Complex rn, not with more research

[gia]

I mean there are too many details that go into different people's brains, and theyre very distinct, whereas race, ethnicity, gender, and sex are more broad topics.

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Yeah exactly so more research is needed neuroscience is still developing

[Sai :), Assistant Moderator]

isn't this debate supposed to be about rcta lmao