Reading the 20th Century discussion
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Welcome to The Midnight Bell (a virtual pub and general discussion thread) (2025)
If it was me I would probably start with my favourites, Persuasion and P&P and finish with my least favourite Emma. I enjoyed listening to P&P by Juliet Stevenson, but have not heard any other narrators. Enjoy your Austen reading.
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Northanger Abbey
Sense & Sensibility
P&P
Mansfield Park
Emma
.... all leading up to the utter bliss of
Persuasion
Juliet Stevenson is brilliant at audio because she combines sensitivity to the text with an incredible ability to do voices so she would be my number one choice. (Incidentally, she's also supreme at North and South, Katherine Mansfield and Virginia Woolf).
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I also have a soft spot for Mansfield Park both for Fanny's growth, as you say G, but also the politics of the house - it feels more outwardly engaged than some.
And Emma is just so much fun.
Well, things have gotten even darker here in America today.
Northanger Abbey and Sense and Sensibility are the two I haven't read yet.
G wrote: "I still think I prefer Persuasion and Mansfield Park. I like Mansfield Park because finally there's a female protagonist who learns to speak for herself, and can see the world more clearly than the male characters around her. (She's ignored, of course.)"Ooh--my two favorites as well.
Once I read them all, just a few years ago, my strategy has been to read the one I read longest ago. I have Emma coming up next, which I expect to enjoy much more on second read. That's happened with each of them--they just get better. Even P&P, which I too didn't love at first, but found much better the second time earlier this year.
I honestly didn't think our situation here could escalate through so many levels of terror in just 4 days. Throwing a sitting US Senator to the ground and arresting him while he is performing some of his congressional tasks is at a level that I don't even know how to describe or compare to other countries.
I'm going to a No Kings Day protest on Saturday (there are more than 2000 planned). I think I'll be safe where I plan to be, but I see that the regime has targeted Philadelphia for the same kinds of abuse as LA is receiving. I'm in the suburbs, but I am alarmed.
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The huge number of protests planned for the weekend is heartening and the solidarity will lift your spirits. But take care. And please do report back.
ps. There was an interesting piece in the Guardian about the marines feeling demoralized and concerned about being forced to turn against fellow Americans and taking on a police role for which they're not trained and which is not their function.
How is our country (fellow Americans) slipping into a police state before our very eyes?
Rachel wrote: "How is our country (fellow Americans) slipping into a police state before our very eyes?"We knew it was coming, once 30% of us chose this convicted felon who promised to be a dictator from day 1 into office, and we prepared the way by creating ICE and the Dept of Homeland Security in the panic after 9/11, but it's still shocking and disorienting.
G wrote: "Rachel wrote: "How is our country (fellow Americans) slipping into a police state before our very eyes?"We knew it was coming, once 30% of us chose this convicted felon who promised to be a dicta..."
I'm so sorry G, I echo R. C.'s comments, like her I've been following the news quite closely. The world seems even more dispiriting than usual, the news about Netanyahu bombing Tehran is very disturbing, not to mention the various other conflicts across the globe.
I will join in London, where the protest is relabled "No Clowns" because we have a King, it's his Official Birthday with the Trooping the Colours Ceremony, and the organisers want to avoid mixed messages about the monarchy here. With all that's happening, how can I not be there?
Be careful in Philly.
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Conveniently for Trump the 250th anniversary of the US army coincides with his 79th Birthday
The King’s birthday is an unfortunate coincidence
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Love that image, RC. June 14 is also Flag Day(i.e., the anniversary of the 1777 resolution that established the stars & stripes design) here.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Ah ok. I thought we might be replaying the American Revolution with the battle of the parades!"Looks more as if we're in for a replay of Iraq/Afghanistan by proxy. Was listening to reps of Israel and of America earlier and the rhetoric being used to justify bombing Iran so similar, it's uncanny. All that moralising about regime change, the need to liberate the Iranian people, topple the evil leader etc etc Almost fell off my chair when the US rep went into a speel about liberating Iranian women and gays, clearly he's not been home to America lately! And, does seem, Trump's 'do what thou wilt' foreign policy has a not insignificant part to play in all this.
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They are utterly shameless!
I was grimly amused that Israel have forced the US U-turn from 'we knew nothing about it' to 'ah ok, we did know'... And Russia having the nerve to talk about attacking sovereign nations.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Almost fell off my chair when the US rep went into a speel about liberating Iranian women and gays, clearly he's not been home to America lately!"They are utterly shameless!
I w..."
That was pretty priceless. Although it was obvious that Trump's administration had to have known. Israeli administrations only held back on this kind of action in the past because Obama and then Biden refused to sanction it, so Trump had to have either actively greenlit the op or made it clear he'd look the other way. I guess now we wait and see what the nature of the 'friendship' between China, Russia and Iran actually is.
I’m back & safe after my protest, moved almost to tears to see the turnout all over the country, even in Minneapolis, despite the very reasonable fears for public safety after the assassination there overnight. I didn’t learn of the assassination till after the event I attended. I am horrified.
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The assassinations are horrific - but what can we expect with a POTUS and GOP going around talking about their opponents as 'scum', 'traitors' and worse? This is on them. And good to see Minneapolis has still come out to register their resistance.
Glad you're home safely G. Good turnout at the US Embassy in London, larger than Hands Off, but far less at risk here. I also learned of the assassination only on the way home. It certainly would have destroyed the positive feelings at the demonstration and made it rawer and uglier, understandably.And they haven't caught the assassin yet.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Almost fell off my chair when the US rep went into a speel about liberating Iranian women and gays, clearly he's not been home to America lately!"They are utterly shameless!
I w..."
Have these people listened to themselves?
Rachel wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Almost fell off my chair when the US rep went into a speel about liberating Iranian women and gays, clearly he's not been home to America lately!"They are utt..."
It's really hard to work out if they've fallen for their own propaganda or take audiences for fools. The same U.S. rep also highlighted social inequality in Iran, and how hard it must be for ordinary Iranians to see their leadership increasing their personal wealth while they struggle. He cited this as another reason for toppling the regime - again seemed bizarre he overlooked the rising wealth disparity in America.
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“The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.”F. Scott Fitzgerald
I never have been a Fitzgerald fan.
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But yes, a fine example of Orwellian
Edit: Doublethink.
G wrote: "I’m back & safe after my protest, moved almost to tears to see the turnout all over the country, even in Minneapolis, despite the very reasonable fears for public safety after the assassination the..."I was shocked by the news too. I'm really relieved you made it through okay.
Ben wrote: "Glad you're home safely G. Good turnout at the US Embassy in London, larger than Hands Off, but far less at risk here. I also learned of the assassination only on the way home. It certainly would h..."Glad it went well Ben, although obviously wish it hadn't been necessary or followed by such devastating news.
I haven't heard of any violence. My town turned out 1,000 people. The Republicans turned out about 20. This is a fairly red town, too. I was late. Our demonstrations are scheduled for the morning. I was appalled by the assassinations. Brings back bad memories from my youth. I don't consider what happened to Trump in Pennsylvania as an attempt. It had all the markings of a put-up job.
She fears that the sheer shamelessness of Trump has “really disempowered the opposition, because our impulse is to keep looking for the thing that’s hidden and expose it, and we think that’s going to be what makes the system unravel.” But the problem is not what’s hidden, it’s “what we’ve normalised – because the whole strategy is to throw it all in your face.”Professor Marci Sure . The Guardian .
The BBC are showing "Berlin" 1933 and 1945 , documentaries comprising diaries from ordinary people from housewives to journalists to prisoners to soldiers . German , French , Russian Compelling . Shows how we all adjust to incremental horror and rationalise or try to ignore it . I fear Trump is looking to foment chaos ; demonstrations becoming riots then justifying military intervention has a long history . Hitler in 1933 just one of many many examples .
Stay safe everyone .
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Well done, Jan - better late than never, as they say!
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I was just reading that interview, Hester, and her welcome outspoken analysis (incidentally, she's married to Timothy Snyder - that's a dual loss to Yale).
Yes, I think a lot of people are watching out now for our own Reichstag fire moment...
I've been told that voting is not compulsory in the US - which I found strange because in Australia it is - everyone votes, it is compulsory.Unsettling times right across the world.
That’s right, voting here is not compulsory. One reason may be that there it always been the case that at least one major party’s power was vested in preventing people who disagree with them from voting. The Republicans have been really effective at this in the last couple of decades, and keep getting bolder.
G wrote: "That’s right, voting here is not compulsory. One reason may be that there it always been the case that at least one major party’s power was vested in preventing people who disagree with them from v..."It's not compulsory here either.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Hester wrote: "She fears that the sheer shamelessness of Trump has “really disempowered the opposition"I was just reading that interview, Hester, and her welcome outspoken analysis (incidentally,..."
I always think of it the other way round, read The Taste of Ashes: The Afterlife of Totalitarianism in Eastern Europe before I read any Snyder, I wish she'd publish more I also really liked Caviar and Ashes: A Warsaw Generation's Life and Death in Marxism, 1918-1968
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Fitzcarraldo is having a summer sale btw. "We’re running a summer sale on our website until 10.00 a.m. BST on 23 June, with a 30 per cent discount across everything on our website. Including Fiction, Essay, Classics and Poetry titles, subscriptions, collections and tote bags.
The sale includes recent releases Lili is Crying by Hélène Bessette, tr. Kate Briggs, The City and the World by Gregor Hens, tr. Jen Calleja, The Possession by Annie Ernaux, tr. Anna Moschovakis, as well as pre-orders of forthcoming titles including Portrait of an Island on Fire by Ariel Saramandi, Joy is My Middle Name by Sasha Debevec-McKenney, Greyhound by Joanna Pocock, and Big Kiss, Bye-Bye by Claire-Louise Bennett.
You can also save 30 per cent on our Fiction, Essay and Poetry subscriptions. Subscriptions follow our publishing programme and include free postage in the UK on all titles and first editions of each book on or before publication date.
Also included in the sale are our collections, which bring together books from our catalogue by theme, genre and stylistic affinity, such as Writing Life, Modern Gothic and Postcolonialism, or gather the works of Fitzcarraldo Editions authors, including Mathias Enard, Brian Dillon and Annie Ernaux.
Use the code ‘SUMMER30’ at checkout to redeem the discount."
G wrote: "That’s right, voting here is not compulsory. One reason may be that there it always been the case that at least one major party’s power was vested in preventing people who disagree with them from v..."Pam Bondi's DOJ has filed a suit against the NC Board of Elections using as a basis our recent Supreme Court judge contest. The dude finally conceded after beaucoup months. And our judge (of the democratic persuasion) was able to retain her seat. I saw a video about the other night with Mark Elias - he seems to be involved in almost every case brought against the norm in the last few years. I believe his (I think) former firm was one of the law firms that caved. The two big ones that cave have been bleeding lawyers and surely must wonder who would ever want to come to their cowardly firms in the future. Certainly no one interested in litigation or ethics.
Sorry. Rant over.
Saw an excellent podcast the other night with Nicole Wallace and her guest Rachel Maddow. Enough to give us back at least some hope.
Roman Clodia wrote: "I'm cynical - so taking their audience for fools is my take!"I suppose it's worked in the past, for decades really. Shore talks about rising fascism in the US but successive administrations have almost unfailingly boasted fascist elements. It's just that most of those repressive policies have been outwardly directed - thinking of the destabilisation of socialist/would-be socialist leaderships in Latin America, the red scares exported to Korea, Japan etc The black ops, the torture sites. That's not to mention the internal inconsistencies from the death penalty to the people kept in solitary confinement for years on end, Guantanamo, the guns, the lawlessness, the militias, the years of segregation, the sheer number of lynchings, the environmental blight caused by the relatively unfettered operations of vast corporations - all from a country whose leaders have claimed to be upholding democratic values. Yet we're all supposed not to notice.
Alwynne wrote: "It was a relief to read Owen Jones's column today, https://www.theguardian.com/commentis..."
Thanks for this, Alwynne. I've almost given up reading The Guardian, because they, too, are normalizing Deportation Don's madness, if not to the degree that our own main stream media are. I'm also weary of their boasting of their huge endowment which allegedly bestows editorial independence, while shamelessly begging money from me on each article. And I've been influenced by what Carole Cadwalladr has had to say about their labor practices. Taken together, I'd have missed this without your pointing it out.
I really cannot tell how much Trump is controlling his own administration. His visible decline in health and cognitive abilities just since he took office is quite worrying. He's unstable enough by himself, but a vicious fight behind him about who gets to run the show while he is propped up can only make things less stable, especially given the figures he's surrounded himself with.
I really do fear that we are coming to the end of the opening moves of WWIII. I hope I'm wrong.
G wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "It was a relief to read Owen Jones's column today, https://www.theguardian.com/commentis......"
I guess it means I can worry less about climate change being what takes most of us out!
On a positive note, other than sowing wildflower seeds, have pretty much left my garden to run riot again this year - sure the neighbours are scandalised - and seeing lots of butterflies, bees and other insects in abundance.
Alwynne wrote: "G wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "It was a relief to read Owen Jones's column today, https://www.theguardian.com/commentis......"
I wish I could disagree. But with TV hosts in charge of the formerly most powerful conuntry in the world, I tend to agree.
In other news, my local arthouse theater's annual showing of Casablanca is tonight. I am planning to cheer and boo extra loudly. I hope the audience is in like mood!
Reading the 20th Century
Books mentioned in this topic
Emma (other topics)Sea Now (other topics)
Decline and Fall (other topics)
A Handful of Dust (other topics)
Brideshead Revisited: The Sacred and Profane Memories of Captain Charles Ryder (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Evelyn Waugh (other topics)Elizabeth Taylor (other topics)
Celia Fremlin (other topics)
Sylvia Townsend Warner (other topics)
Adrian McKinty (other topics)
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This year being the semiquincentenniel of Jane Austen's birth. I'm planning to reread all the novels--the completed ones, at le..."
Actually, I've read them all several times. Like you, I'm not as keen on P & P as a lot of people. Last time I read it I finally managed to get beneath the sappy romance that so many people turn it into, and appreciate the social critique. I still think I prefer Persuasion and Mansfield Park. I like Mansfield Park because finally there's a female protagonist who learns to speak for herself, and can see the world more clearly than the male characters around her. (She's ignored, of course.)
I like the idea of saving the best till last. I was always the kid who scraped the filling out of the Oreos so that I could get the dry boring chocolate biscuit part out of the way before enjoying the part that was--for me--the point of the cookie.