Welcome to The Midnight Bell (a virtual pub and general discussion thread) (2025)

[Roman Clodia]

Ben wrote: "I read the essay on Cusk and was surprised that it didn’t mention Annie Ernaux. How would she be thought of under this type of analysis?"

That's an interesting conjunction you're suggesting between Cusk and Ernaux, Ben. They're both white women who write autofiction but I think their interests are quite different.

The main point I took from the article is how Cusk appears unaware of her own social and cultural privilege and that that limited viewpoint leads to some of the troubling aspects of her work around issues of class, race, economic status, bodies etc.

Ernaux has written about her own formative marginalization as someone from a working class, suburban background, who wasn't privately educated and who always felt a kind of split and betrayal in becoming someone intellectually 'different' from her parents, even while she loved them.

So I didn't see the arguments being made in the article as having an echo in understandings of Ernaux's work - did you?

Would love to hear what others think.

[Blaine]

I haven't read enough of Ernaux yet to comment of the difference between the way she treats marginalised groups and the way Cusk does. Ernaux does discuss her working class background in the works I've read, but I don't know enough yet to make a broader comparison with the way her writings and Cusk's balance their identities as a woman and as an artist. Cusk too writes about her difficulties with her parents and with her status as a mother.

(Previous paragraph edited to correct mistakes introduced by poor cutting and pasting!)

Given Ernaux's importance as an innovator in autofiction and as a Noble Prize winner, it just struck me as odd not to draw a comparison.

Cusk does seem to draw a lot of negative comments!

[Roman Clodia]

Ben wrote: "Cusk does seem to draw a lot of negative comments!"

She really does! And often of a very personal nature. I'm not sure it's just because her work, as autofiction, invites comparisons between her narrators and herself because I'm not sure that happens with someone like Jon Fosse, for example.

The public disapproval she attracted over her book on motherhood made me very uncomfortable - she's certainly not the only woman essentially saying that motherhood is complex and difficult, even for someone who loves her children and being a mother.

I think the article here makes some excellent points and a persuasive argument. Which won't stop me reading Cusk (not that it's trying to) but which does draw attention to points (especially about the use of the Black artist in Parade and Faye's corrections of other people in the Outline trilogy) that I think I allowed myself to skim over - which is what the best kind of critical writing does.

[Blaine]

Roman Clodia wrote: "the article... does draw attention to points (especially about the use of the Black artist in Parade and Faye's corrections of other people in the Outline trilogy) that I think I allowed myself to skim over - which is what the best kind of critical writing does..."

Agreed.

[Alwynne]

Ben wrote: "I read the essay on Cusk and was surprised that it didn’t mention Annie Ernaux. How would she be thought of under this type of analysis?"

I wouldn't have included Ernaux, she doesn't write in English, she's fairly explicit about what is/isn't autobiographical in her writings, her experimentation with form is marginal at best. So not similar to the writers he cites such as Lerner, Heti or Zinzi Clemons. In any case the writer was painting a broad picture with relevant examples so surely wouldn't expect him to include any/all possible writers who might roughly fit the bill?

However, I did abandon Ernaux's 'The Years' because the assumed 'whiteness' was a bit too much for me - although in keeping with France's so-called 'colourblind' dominant culture.

[G]

I stopped halfway through the article on Cusk. It's very difficult for me to read on screen, and so far I have read nothing that encourages me to alter my view of her. I read part of Coventry: Essays and was stunned by the extent of its solipsism.

I certainly will not read Parade now. Speaking as a person who has not had a home for 4 years, has had to sleep in her car, beg people for access to a kitchen where I could prepare food, and is alive now only by the grace of a handful of people (one I'd just met) who have sheltered me at various times or given me access to their kitchen, I find the idea that a figure who apparently can afford to live in Paris, gives up her apartment voluntarily, and has an inconvenient few weeks of moving between temporary apartments--not her car, not a doorway, not a shelter--but thinks that is somehow comparable disgusting. I also dislike the idea that she --or, to be fair, any artist or critic -- should "interrogate" the experience of a person who has less privilege than they. "Interrogate" is a verb of power. Police "interrogate". Journalists may "interrogate" politicians who are trying to evade telling the public what they should. I don't inherently object to "interrogating" those with equal or greater power and status, but "interrogating" anyone of lesser power or status seems to me to be inherently abusive.
I was just introduced over the weekend to the term "abusive empathy". I'd not met the term before, but I certainly had met the behavior and mindset, and the description of Cusk in this article seems like the embodiment of that.

I have read several of Ernaux's works. I'm listening to The Years for the second time now, in fact. I appreciate Alwynne's observation of how completely it erases persons of color. I'd not noticed that, partly because I don't know enough about contemporary France, but now that I've seen the comment, I realize how sweeping Ernaux's dismissal of the presence of non-white citizens and immigrants is. So thanks for mentioning that, Alwynne.

[Alwynne]

G wrote: "I stopped halfway through the article on Cusk. It's very difficult for me to read on screen, and so far I have read nothing that encourages me to alter my view of her. I read part of [book:Coventry..."

French-ness is predicated on identification with France as a nation and on citizenry rather than inflected by other forms of identity, so race represented as immaterial - although some areas of France now attempting to collect and use data to address issues of racial discrimination. On the surface that notion of French-ness sounds potentially inclusive and egalitarian but it means that data gathering/research into how discrimination operates on a systemic level - prison sentencing/arrests/medical treatment/housing allocation etc - is frowned upon - and effectively rendered invisible. It also tends to mean that the dominant notion of what it is to be French aligns with whiteness/white cultures. The underlying assumption is that racism is an individual issue not an institutional/national one. It's not uncommon as a policy in many mainland European countries, it's not the case in the UK.

Edit: Sorry about the edits, GR temporarily shut down in the middle of posting!

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Ben wrote: "Cusk does seem to draw a lot of negative comments!"

She really does! And often of a very personal nature. I'm not sure it's just because her work, as autofiction, invites comparisons b..."

I liked the book on motherhood, thought it was very relevant and, at the time, expressed experiences often presumed peripheral to non-existent. I much prefer her non-fiction to her fiction, at least so far. But, like you, I'd still read her work, just with various reservations.

[G]

Alwynne wrote: "G wrote: "I stopped halfway through the article on Cusk. It's very difficult for me to read on screen, and so far I have read nothing that encourages me to alter my view of her. I read part of [boo..."

This is the dominant idea in many quarters here, as well. Only since about 2020 has it begun to dawn on ordinary white folks that there might be a systemic component to racism. The second election of Trump only makes sense to me in the context of backlash to this growing awareness (though there are other interrelated factors).

[Roman Clodia]

Alwynne wrote: "But, like you, I'd still read her work, just with various reservations."

Yes, I think this is the way we have to negotiate our reading: recognize and acknowledge those limitations of perspective, whether blind or intentional, without getting all 'cancelly' - we're all grown ups and can set our own red lines.

[Sam]

Earlier last year I chanced to read The Long View by Elizabeth Jane Howard and enjoyed the writing quite a bit despite the reverse time gimmick. I was surprised to see no books by Howard on the group bookshelf and was wondering what was everyone's opinion on the author? She has a multiple volume family saga called the Cazalet Chronicles that was adapted into a BBC TV series. I have not seen the show nor read the books. Any fans?

[Alwynne]

Sam wrote: "Earlier last year I chanced to read The Long View by Elizabeth Jane Howard and enjoyed the writing quite a bit despite the reverse time gimmick. I was surprised to see..."

I liked the Cazalet books, decent as a family saga and as a representation of a particular era. It's fairly autobiographical, many scenes echo episodes depicted in her autobiography Slipstream: A Memoir Wasn't as keen on the others I've tried with the exception of her ghost stories/weird fiction in Three Miles Up and Other Strange Stories

[Sam]

Alwynne wrote: "Sam wrote: "Earlier last year I chanced to read The Long View by Elizabeth Jane Howard and enjoyed the writing quite a bit despite the reverse time gimmick. I was surp..."

Thank You Alwynne. On your recommendation, I decided to try the weird stories since it is less commitment and gives me an opportunity to try more of her work before moving to the longer pieces.

[Alwynne]

Has anyone else watched 'Asura' on Netflix btw? Directed by Japanese filmmaker Hirokazu Kore-eda, it's his second mini-series after 'The Makanai' also for Netflix. If not I'd highly recommend it, set in 1979 and centred on four sisters it works well as a companion piece to The Makioka Sisters - although not sure if that's intentional.

[Nigeyb]

Thanks for the tip

[Alwynne]

Couple of interesting articles in The Guardian. Short intro to the growing femgore subgenre e.g. Victorian Psycho

https://www.theguardian.com/books/202...

And nice piece on surrealist women artists:

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddes...

[Blaine]

Alwynne wrote: "Has anyone else watched 'Asura' on Netflix btw? Directed by Japanese filmmaker Hirokazu Kore-eda, it's his second mini-series after 'The Makanai' also for Netflix. If not I'd highly recommend it, s..."

Just added it to my list!

[Alwynne]

Ben wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Has anyone else watched 'Asura' on Netflix btw? Directed by Japanese filmmaker Hirokazu Kore-eda, it's his second mini-series after 'The Makanai' also for Netflix. If not I'd highly..."

Great, it got rave reviews but hasn't been promoted that much by Netflix, not sure why. I suppose it's more arthouse than a lot of their productions.

[Alwynne]

This is for G and for anyone else who might find it helpful or is struggling with the current regime in the US. I think the growing consensus is that rather than a coup/self-coup this is likely attempted 'state capture', this organisation has some very helpful suggestions on forms of protest/resistance, how to take care of yourself and stay grounded. It's also organised for any level of personal resources/abilities etc

https://choosedemocracy.us/what-can-i...

[Alwynne]

G not sure if you're getting notifications, seem to remember you were having problems. This is my reply to your comments/points about what may/may not be happening in the US right now. I didn't want you to feel I hadn't taken them seriously, was just too busy to reply immediately.

I'm more familiar than I'd like to be with what's happening over there not least because of the potential impact in Europe, the likely ethnic cleansing of Gaza, the fate of Ukraine and the many individual deaths that will already have occurred as a result of the abrupt withdrawal of medical and other forms of aid to numerous countries.

I've been aware of Musk for a while, partly because of his alt-right ties, interest in reviving some form of apartheid state and his pronatalist views that intersect with the belief systems fuelling the ongoing assault on reproductive rights. I've also read Nick Land, Yarvin, Thiel and am aware of their influence on key figures in Trump's administration notably Vance.

So, without being alarmist, it's relatively easy to envisage Musk as engaged in following through on NRx beliefs. So engaging in what, in that context, would be considered a necessary 'hard reset' of American institutions. In NRx such a move is, at least theoretically, a step towards replacing democracy with some form of monarchical "gov-corp" led by tech oligarchs. I doubt Trump is that ideologically committed to the NRx agenda but more likely to be along for the ride on the basis of what he might get out of it.

Being pretty much rational, I've always viewed the NRx/Dark Enlightenment project as bizarre and outlandish, rather like something out of pulp SF. However, there are definite overlaps between what's happening in America and the NRx playbook. Some British theorists here certainly see what's happening as a prelude to an attempt to overthrow American democracy. Some because they see the shuttering/muzzling of institutions/government departments that provide stability/continuity from president to president as potentially signifying this administration has no intention of handing power over to anyone else/any other party/group.

I'm not sure haggling over whether or not this constitutes a coup is of much use, especially since elected Republicans don't seem to be doing much of anything to halt it. And Democrats seem to have so much trust in the system/business-as-usual that they appear to think they can deal with any problems by waiting for the mid-terms/issuing court injunctions. If Musk/Trump are only dabbling, testing the waters that might work, if they are really going for it then I think a rather more sustained/robust response from Democrats is required. Although there is, of course, the possibility that Musk and Trump will clash and the whole scheme will collapse.

I'm not, quite honestly, that impressed by Snyder's input, he posted a video on his Substack asserting that this is a coup then went overseas! What he hasn't done, and what's clearly needed - if he truly believes that this is the case - is directed people towards activist/campaigning groups/actions/responses that might actually be able to address what's happening. It's a bit like yelling 'Fire' but not calling Fire and Rescue/firefighters - just going down the pub instead!

[Roman Clodia]

Great post, Alwynne - cool, rational and informed.

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Great post, Alwynne - cool, rational and informed."

Thanks! It's obviously an oversimplification - I didn't mention for example the overlap between NRx policies and Project 2025's stated goals. Plus talking about Dark Enlightenment always seems a bit weird because it encompasses such a weird set of ideas. Nick Land's book is strange, the ways in which it's been adopted and transformed by various members of Silicon Valley's elite even stranger!

Although Project 2025 is also quite bizarre, although surprisingly readable and useful in terms of identifying where certain ideas/assertions I've encountered online are coming from. If I didn't know that there are people who take it seriously, it would actually be quite entertaining because it's so hilarious, for example:

"Those who run our so-called American corporations have bent to the will of the woke agenda and care more for their foreign investors and organizations than their American workers and customers. Today, nearly every top-tier U.S. university president or Wall Street hedge fund manager has more in common with a socialist, European head of state than with the parents at a high school football game in Waco, Texas. Many elites’ entire identity, it seems, is wrapped up in their sense of superiority over those people. But under our Constitution, they are the mere equals of the workers who shower after work instead of before."

[G]

Alwynne wrote: "G not sure if you're getting notifications, seem to remember you were having problems. This is my reply to your comments/points about what may/may not be happening in the US right now. I didn't wan..."

To be honest, I'm so overwhelmed by what is happening that I've not been attending to GR very much, so I'm just getting to read your comments, Alwynne.
I've mostly been aware of Musk through the rather naive and utopian opinions many techie Americans seem to have of him. I think I have an instinctual ability to detect lies and B.S. so I've never thought this carefully managed image was real. And when the image isn't real, the opposite is often true. The NRx stuff was new to me. I'd run across references, but as you said, it always seemed to be something out of pulp SF (definitely not my thing), and so I've not paid much attention to it. I have paid a lot of attention to WCN (white Christian nationalism), which is the source of Project 2025. Musk's (and the other oligarchs') goals really are not compatible with WCN, and some people I know are waiting to see what the inevitable falling out leads to. Not that they assume it will lead to good, or to a restoration of democracy. Right now, there are 2-3 groups who backed Trump because they saw him as the means to accomplish what they want. What each group wants is not compatible with the other groups' ideas. (Sorry to be repetitive. I'm too tired to edit that.)

I agree with you that arguing over the terminology (coup or state capture or something else) is not especially helpful. Whatever label we use, it is impossible to overstate how serious a blow to our democracy this is, because it overturns the whole basis of our particular democracy. I am very angry at the members of both parties in Congress for abdicating their responsibility--that was the whole idea of the separation of powers, that when there was a president who tried to take too much power, Congress would keep him in check, and if necessary put him out of office. Nixon got himself impeached--well, technically not impeached because he resigned shortly before the impeachment was scheduled--for doing about a tenth of what Trump is doing. Republicans decided a long time ago to side with Trump no matter what, so I'm not surprised by their complicity--though neither Musk nor Trump need Congress if they succeed, and I think the Republican senators who should be screaming about the arrogation of their own powers are being very short sighted in addition to betraying the oath of office they each took. I'm especially disgusted with the Democrats, who are not being nearly aggressive enough in defending the very thing they promised to uphold. Their legislative means are limited, given that they are in the minority in both houses, but they are not using what they have well, and they are certainly failing in other forms of leadership.

I am very worried about the effect the Musk/Trump chaos is having and is going to have in the world. Caving to Putin is alarming. Attacking the ICC is reprehensible. And the talk of forcibly expelling Palestinians from Gaza literally turns my stomach. It was bad enough that Biden didn't do more to stop Israel's genocide there. And turning our immediate neighbor, possibly closest ally, and biggest trading partner against us is idiotic to say nothing of the harm done to them. The same can be said of Mexico, though that relationship has been more strained than the one with Canada, not least because we stole half their country.
I never accepted the Whig view of history (though I am realizing that it influenced my psyche more than I realized), but choosing to jettison a world order that is at least nominally based on international law and embracing a world order based on smash and grab harms everyone.

I don't fault Snyder for not saying what to do. I think way too many Americans have tuned politics out so for so long that they are sleepwalking into authoritarianism (whether that will be controlled by the theobros or the brogliarchs), and I read his letters as an attempt to wake people up. There are a number of other writers who are talking about what we can do. I think the very fact that he does not talk about that makes it more possible (I wish I could say likely) for the people he is trying to reach to hear what he is saying.

[Alwynne]

I agree, and good point about Snyder hadn't considered him from that angle.

I know that WCN and others clash but they currently share the same targets, short-terms goals - from crushing the trans community to ending access to abortion. So, for now, I imagine the alliances will hold. It's essentially my enemy's enemy is my friend situation.

But yes the Republicans seem very muted, I read that Musk has made it known that he will field and fund loyal candidates in any area that hosts a dissenting Republican so maybe that's part of it. I also read that the majority side with Trump's current policies/actions but see some are starting to speak out as cuts hit their voters.

But, yes, know it's not really my place but find the lacklustre response of your Democrats worrying and baffling. There's been a more robust response here among European leaders, especially after the talks with Vance and Hegseth in Munich. A number of European leaders meeting on Monday to discuss what to do abou Trump and about Ukraine - lots of referencing of 1938, Chamberlain and appeasement and not wanting to go down that road.

I'm worried too but it's all too up in the air could be a new world order in the making, could be a storm in a teacup. But am very bothered for friends in America and in Canada too.

Musk is also a concern here mainly because of his courting of far-right parties. Germany made sense as a form of payback: his Tesla plant led to serious levels of deforestation and polluted groundwater so target of environmentalists and subject to fines etc Elsewhere not possible to interpret in the same way, although he has had various beefs about regulatory frameworks in a number of European countries.

[Alwynne]

There's a small group of activists/environmentalists linked to Greenpeace who posted a video summarising Musk's activities in Europe and in the past his connections to Andrew Tate etc

They're called Led by Donkeys and imo worth following:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjWl_...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX3vM...

I really like them because they're basically four blokes who came up with their group over a beer in a North London pub, they started with critiques of Brexit and just kept going.

[Roman Clodia]

Yes, I like Led By Donkeys - they're non-scary for people who aren't political junkies and they're a quiet but determined form of resistance.

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Yes, I like Led By Donkeys - they're non-scary for people who aren't political junkies and they're a quiet but determined form of resistance."

They're sort of comforting, like the activist equivalent of a teddy bear. Also like that they only take small donations. They're the ones who projected the 'Heil' onto the Tesla gigafactory in Germany, love that they changed the typeface to match the Tesla/swasticar logo.

[Blaine]

Great posts Alwynne and G.

Alwynne wrote: "Some because they see the shuttering/muzzling of institutions/government departments that provide stability/continuity from president to president as potentially signifying this administration has no intention of handing power over to anyone else/any other party/group..."

Isn't obvious that they would never tolerate allowing any opposition to exercise the executive powers they have taken for themselves? Having established these precedents, the Democrats can never be allowed to hold the Presidency.

Alwynne wrote: "I'm not sure haggling over whether or not this constitutes a coup is of much use, especially since elected Republicans don't seem to be doing much of anything to halt it."

I agree. But when the basic institutions of a free society have disappeared -- the use of the police or military to suppress dissent, the flouting of court orders, the appropriation of public assets for private benefit, the extension of states of emergency to domestic use, the use of federal power to take over dissenting states and municipalities -- then it will be clear a coup has taken place.

G wrote: Republicans decided a long time ago to side with Trump no matter what, so I'm not surprised by their complicity--though neither Musk nor Trump need Congress if they succeed, and I think the Republican senators who should be screaming about the arrogation of their own powers are being very short sighted in addition to betraying the oath of office they each took."

It's hard for me to understand what has happened to the Republicans in Congress. Not all of them share the Trumpian/Musk agenda, but it seems the fear of being "primaried" has overcome any sense of loyalty to the nation or the Constitution that at least 10-15 must still have. What is the point of being elected to office, even if you will be booted out at the next election, if you don't stand up and stop a budding dictatorship? Don't they see what has happened to people who aligned themselves with Trump in the first term? Compare these Quislings to the brave lawyers in the DOJ and the US Attorneys office, some of whom are solidly on the Right, who refused to sign on to the dismissal of the case against NYC's corrupt Mayor Adams.

G wrote: "I never accepted the Whig view of history (though I am realizing that it influenced my psyche more than I realized), but choosing to jettison a world order that is at least nominally based on international law and embracing a world order based on smash and grab harms everyone."

It's a new world disorder they are looking for, creating areas where local tyrants can do as they please without interference by any multilateral bodies or international legal standards.

[Alwynne]

Ben wrote: "It's a new world disorder they are looking for, creating areas where local tyrants can do as they please."

That's the endgame envisaged by Yarvin based on Land, they see democracy as the opposite of freedom because they don't believe the masses should have a say in governance. It's very much based on the notion of enlightened elites, and input into government would then consist of - at best - voting on a referendum or the equivalent of up/down votes online. They also believe in white racial superiority, fear 'the great replacement' etc So a bit of a toxic cocktail. There was a very basic summary in the FT recently, also covered last year in El Pais and, for some time, in various online journals.

[Alwynne]

Some links Ben if they're of any interest, have more if you want them on Thiel etc I was a Grimes fan - the mother of the nose-picking child in the White House press conf - so became aware of how dodgy Musk was when she was effectively cancelled because of her racist comments endorsing his. Also lots of overlaps with Gamergate, the manosphere especially the idea that Musk et al have been red-pilled - as apparently has Ivanka. It's like a Marvel plot sans superhero:

Software, Sovereignty and the Post-Neoliberal Politics of Exit, open access journal article - the first couple of paragraphs might sound too academic/offputting but the bulk of the article is actually accessible even if have no knowledge of the frameworks referred to.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full...

https://english.elpais.com/usa/2024-1...

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk...

Neoliberalism, the Alt-Right and the Intellectual Dark
Web
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full...

Rational Magic
Why a Silicon Valley culture that was once obsessed with reason is going woo- Tara Isabella Burton
https://www.thenewatlantis.com/public...

[Alwynne]

The only positive is that apparently the masses would be pacified via a universal income - that's if they're not queer, Black etc I think that's riffing off the left-wing version of the theory which also built in a universal income as a prerequisite for maintaining stability.

[Blaine]

Alwynne wrote: "Some links Ben if they're of any interest, ..."

Thank you. I will read them

[Alwynne]

Ben wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Some links Ben if they're of any interest, ..."

Thank you. I will read them"

Only if you think they'll be informative.

Btw has anyone got any suggestions for useful things to do? Has done anything they would recommend? Other than throw more money at the Guardian since independent media seems particularly important.

I really want to avoid that whole doom-scrolling followed by denial followed by doom-scrolling cycle that marked the beginning of the pandemic.

[Blaine]

Alwynne wrote: "Only if you think they'll be informative..."

The New Atlantic article made me think of the Star Wars line, "Only now do you see the power of the Dark Side." Or, as one of the post-rationalist writers quoted in the article said, “It is better to be interesting and wrong than it is to be right and boring.” I try to stay on the "right and boring" side.

[Alwynne]

Ben wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Only if you think they'll be informative..."

The New Atlantic article made me think of the Star Wars line, "Only now do you see the power of the Dark Side." Or, as one of the post-..."


Definite guffaw here, although I'm a Trekkie not a Star Wars' woman so hopeless on the references! But yes right and boring sounds good to me too. You might also do a search for articles on technofeudalism - which in the case of Silicon Valley traces connections back to Ayn Rand, there's a definite whiff of would-be Randian superman to Musk.

[Alwynne]

I see the FT's reporting that Trump's administration are wading in on behalf of Andrew Tate, you really couldn't make this stuff up! Still makes Star Wars even more relevant, not that all Lucas fans are incel nerds btw.

[Blaine]

I saw that. They don't make a secret of their priorities and proclivities.

Perhaps someone can explain to me why this sort of thing is ok with T***p's Christian and other religious followers? Setting aside blanket hypocrisy and the theory that God uses the ungodly to accomplish godly ends (because I do believe many religious people do act in good faith), how do they reconcile support of monsters like Tate and Robinson with their faith?

[Alwynne]

Ben wrote: "I saw that. They don't make a secret of their priorities and proclivities.

Perhaps someone can explain to me why this sort of thing is ok with T***p's Christian and other religious followers? Sett..."

I don't get it either, the only Christians I know relatively well are either very liberal, so Anglo-Catholics who have no issue with queer identities, or active in the Green or Labour Parties. I do know some who have clashing beliefs when it comes to being pro-choice but even then they aren't necessarily supportive of a blanket ban - and statistics bear that out.

Some of the more devout Anglicans are less liberal but still would find it hard to imagine them supporting people like Tate or Robinson - Robinson would presumably be out because so many church leaders are Black and hail from countries in Africa and/or parts of the Caribbean/or are of African and/or Caribbean heritage. The only Christians I've come across who might, have links to the US - so a Baptist lay preacher who trained in a US bible college who was rabidly right-wing, anti-workers' rights etc

I think there are branches of Christianity in America that vary dramatically from most forms of Christianity practiced here. The Baptist I mentioned, for example, had no issue with people dying in war or being nuked, on the basis that the saved would be with God and the others were damned anyway. I think he would have separated out women who had faith and were virtuous - so virgins before marriage, subject to their husband's authority as in some interpretations of Paul - from those who didn't fit the bill. Those would possibly be considered sinners and fair game? It's that whole thing about personal salvation and God's grace - ties to the prosperity gospel supporters. But Trump is only notionally Christian, and the far-right Christians in his administration I find beyond bewildering in terms of their belief systems. They're the ones who tend to think that Adam and Eve existed and were white and people of colour a failed prototype.

[Alwynne]

I'm starting to see how easy it might be to get tied up with conspiracy theories, I've been watching news reports of the use of AI-generated TikTok influencers in the German election campaign to promote the far-right AfD and have to say they're increasingly convincing. I wouldn't have realised the examples shown in the Sky News segment here were fake:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/...

Maybe Whoopi (and Trump) was right and Trump is now AI generated, certainly see would be easy to do for Melania!

[Hester]

I've been following this thread with interest . As a little light relief I can recommend a satirical short story on this very subject of religious belief and their malleability by Marcel Aymé/ The State of Grace . it was set in Paris during WW2 when I'm sure there were plenty of "Good Christians" engaging in all sorts of self justifications ...

Marcel Aymé ( 1902 to 1967) wrote novels , short stories and plays for both children and adults . Has anyone read any of his work as he is new to me?

I read it as part of the GR Short Story Club and where we read a short story a week .

[Alwynne]

Hester wrote: "I've been following this thread with interest . As a little light relief I can recommend a satirical short story on this very subject of religious belief and their malleability by Marcel Aymé/ The ..."

Thanks, I've been finding watching news footage of speeches by the NY governor Kathy Hochul and the governor of Illinois Pritzker strangely soothing. Pritzker's comparisons to the 1930s were obviously not comforting but it's a relief to be reminded of the many, many sane, decent American politicians still fighting the good fight.

[Blaine]

Hester wrote: "I've been following this thread with interest . As a little light relief I can recommend a satirical short story on this very subject of religious belief and their malleability by Marcel Aymé/ The ..."

Thanks Hester. I will read it. It's online at https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...

[Alwynne]

Following on from reading Project 2025 - not recommended for bedtime reading btw. There's a site that is tracking how far the proposals put forward in Project 2025 map onto what's been done so far under Trump and what's yet to come:

https://www.project2025.observer/

I haven't checked who's behind it but it's being widely circulated, and does mesh with what I read.

[Blaine]

Hester wrote: "I've been following this thread with interest . As a little light relief I can recommend a satirical short story on this very subject of religious belief and their malleability by Marcel Aymé/ The ..."

Ha ha! Was it God who gave him the halo, or the devil? 😈

[Hester]

it's a brilliant story, isn't it, Ben..

[Blaine]

How blessed it must be to be one of the elect!

It reminds me of some stories by Ted Chiang, mixing the supernatural and the natural in a very matter-of-fact way.

[Barbara]

Hester, the only Aymé I've ever read was Le Passe-muraille and it was many years ago so I don't remember much about it. i remember liking it but it was way before Goodreads (or personal computers for that matter) so no idea how I would have rated it.

[Hester]

Thanks Barbara . And I must read Ted Chaing, Ben . I have a collection of his short stories on my shelf .

[Blaine]

I was a big fan of sci-fi in my teens, but now Ted Chiang and Ursula Le Guin are the only "speculative fiction" writers I care for.

(Maybe with a nod to John Wyndham)

But I'm sure you all will identify others who should be on my still-should-read list.

[Jan C]

Alwynne wrote: "Hester wrote: "I've been following this thread with interest . As a little light relief I can recommend a satirical short story on this very subject of religious belief and their malleability by Ma..."

I didn't see what Hochul said, other than they were going to take a look at Adams and whether she could do anything about him, given that he is currently violating NY laws. But I did see Pritzker's statement. As a former Illinoisan I was quite proud of him. I have been to the Holocaust Museum in Skokie and was quite impressed. Thought it would be depressing but it wasn't. It was quite uplifting.

After they started axing the IRS and Park/Forest rangers I got a little depressed or something. I was a former IRS employee so it does hit kind of close to home. Then they started axing the rangers and rescinding the job offers to the seasonal employees. That's what most of their employees are. The firefighters are only employed during fire season. They're canceling campground permits. Where I live they are still trying to come back from Helene 5 months ago. There were reports locally that people who volunteer were told to forget about it. Last Fall was a disaster here and it doesn't look like this summer will be that much better.