Welcome to The Midnight Bell (a virtual pub and general discussion thread) (2025)

[G]

Prominent in far right culture, I’d say, and known to those who study anti-democratic movements. Also, his followers are notorious fir their doxxing, esp. of college/university professors who teach students to think critically, and cover some of the unsavory aspects of US history and culture. I think Trump knows he owes a great deal to Kirk’s organization. But I’d not call him prominent here, at least, not outside those circles.

[Jan C]

I had barely heard of him. But I live in an eastern state - what might be called purple. We elect blue officers statewide but are dominated by Republicans. I don't watch Fox or other right/conservative organs or publications. I'm too far behind in my reading to waste time on theirs.

So much time was spent on covering Kirk that it was a day or so before I learned of the shooting in Evergreen, Colorado. They happened on the same day.

I didn't watch the news non-stop and I did catch a cold a few days previous.

[Sam]

This Guardian opinion piece is the least hagiographic article I have seen since the tragedy. I think the piece may go a little too far in offering a negative portrayal, but IMO, balances the political discussion a bit.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentis...

[Roman Clodia]

Prompted by a few recent comments in other threads, I've been thinking about which books and authors we have been introduced to via this lovely group.

For me, I'd never heard of Celia Fremlin before she came up here and now I've buddy read all her novels.

For some reason, I'd previously thought Barbara Pym wasn't for me - but read her Excellent Women in the group and am now rereading all her books here in order.

I'd heard of Patrick Hamilton but hadn't read him - prompted by our Nigeyb, I've been bowled over by his books.

And while I was familiar with Jeeves & Wooster, it was this group which introduced me to Blandings - now one of the happy places in my head.

Are there books or authors that you might never have found if not for this group?

[Nigeyb]

I'm sure there's loads - going to have to have a think and come back to you

[Susan]

I think Celia Fremlin, Michael Frayn and Patrick Hamilton are favourites I found through this group. Other books I've loved include The Tortoise and the Hare, The History Man, and Dorothy Whipple's The Priory. The History Man was my favourite read of the year, when we read it. I certainly need to try more books by Malcolm Bradbury.

[Nigeyb]

I've just remembered Susan introduced me to both Mick Herron and Philip Kerr. And probably Ben Macintyre.

I'd read Patricia Highsmith but you, RC, encouraged me to read the rest of the Ripliad

I often hear about writers, mention them here, and then get added encouragement to read them, or read more of them. This applies to Anita Brookner, Elizabeth Taylor, Celia Fremlin, Rose Tremain, Margaret Drabble, Marghanita Laski, Elizabeth Strout, L.P. Hartley, Ottessa Moshfegh, Muriel Spark, Henry Green and a host of others.

I also end up revisiting firm favourites thanks to the group e.g. Graham Greene, John Le Carre, Jane Gardam, Agatha Christie and many more.

What a pleasure to be involved

Thanks everyone

[G]

I'd say the authors I've discovered through this group who look like becoming favorites are Sylvia Plath and Joyce Carol Oates.

More significant so far are the authors I've re-discovered. Authors I once loved, then came to dislike, and now like again, or authors I'd read and never quite liked, but do now that I've reread them. PG Wodehouse is the prime example of the first, and Muriel Spark of the second.

I also discovered Mick Herron in this group, and while I'm not sure I'd call him a favorite exactly, I have enjoyed his page-turners when I've needed some escape from reality.

[Kathleen]

I love the variety and exploration in this group, but also the infectious excitement about certain authors. Some I've been introduced to here that I'm really looking forward to reading more from:
Jane Gardam
Helen Dunmore
Chester Himes
Irmgard Keun

[Roman Clodia]

Susan wrote: "I think Celia Fremlin, Michael Frayn and Patrick Hamilton are favourites I found through this group."

And part of the pleasure of finding new authors is sharing that discovery with other people here: I will always associate Fremlin with Susan and Brian; Highsmith with Nigeyb and Brian; Blandings too.

It's quite nostalgic looking back at our book journeys!

[Roman Clodia]

G wrote: "I'd say the authors I've discovered through this group who look like becoming favorites are Sylvia Plath and Joyce Carol Oates."

Woo hoo! We have such great taste in this group 😉

[Roman Clodia]

Kathleen wrote: "I love the variety and exploration in this group, but also the infectious excitement about certain authors."

The only problem is never having the time to read all that we want to!

[Susan]

That's so true. As I get older I feel annoyed I will never manage to read everything I want to. Also, a few authors aside, I appreciate older books and authors more than newer ones.

[Blaine]

The writers I've either discovered or actually begun reading because of this group are: Elizabeth Bowen, Michael Frayn, John Le Carre, Rose Macauley, Ben Macintyre, Marcel Proust, Barbara Pym and Virginia Woolf.

In addition to the great recommendations, thank you all so much for your ideas, your chatter, your civil conversation and for adding to the culture in my life.

[Alwynne]

I've also read quite a few books I wouldn't have otherwise, the recent Vera for example. This is such a wonderful, and wonderfully wide-ranging group. Also like that the discussions drill down into the content of what's being read, the politics, the differing cultural perspectives and so on...

[Alwynne]

I still haven't read Patrick Hamilton though. But did pick up a copy of The Slaves of Solitude based on Nigey's praise for Hamilton's work. So I will get there.

[Cphe]

Has anyone read any of the Sean Duffy series by Adrian McKinty

Series starts with The Cold Cold Ground

[Cphe]

Must admit that I've explored more Persephone novels since I migrated over to the group.

[Susan]

Cphe wrote: "Has anyone read any of the Sean Duffy series by Adrian McKinty

Series starts with The Cold Cold Ground"

I haven't read them, Cphe, but they look really interesting.

Ben, that's a pretty good list. I'm always pushing Elizabeth Bowen on everyone. My daughter is currently reading her first Bowen and has asked for another - hurrah!

[Nigeyb]

I haven't read them either Cphe


Tell us more

BTW looks like there's a prequel to that first Sean Duffy book...

God's Away on Business: Sean Duffy Year 1

[Roman Clodia]

I've read the first couple of the Sean Duffy books but they weren't for me - bearing in mind that I'm a bit iffy over Bernie Gunter though that doesn't mean others here won't love them.

[Roman Clodia]

Susan wrote: "Ben, that's a pretty good list. I'm always pushing Elizabeth Bowen on everyone."

Me too! And I'm so happy to see Sylvia Plath and Virginia Woolf in that list of discoveries from everyone.

[Roman Clodia]

Alwynne wrote: "I still haven't read Patrick Hamilton"

I still haven't read Dorothy Whipple even though I've enjoyed a couple of her stories in Persephone anthologies.

This is the dumbest reason but while I love the Persephone books, they don't fit on my bookshelves with everything else because of their size and there's always a hugely long wait-list at the library. I guess that means they must be on Kindle now?

[Nigeyb]

I'm taking the Adrian McKinty chat about his Sean Duffy books over to the Crime Fiction thread as it is a better fit...



https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "I still haven't read Patrick Hamilton"

I still haven't read Dorothy Whipple even though I've enjoyed a couple of her stories in Persephone anthologies.

This is the dumbest reason..."

Mine have their own shelves, so understand completely! I think some may be on Kindle but not all, it's annoying because it makes it hard to find samples to see if the writing appeals.

[Alwynne]

Sam wrote: "This Guardian opinion piece is the least hagiographic article I have seen since the tragedy. I think the piece may go a little too far in offering a negative portrayal, but IMO, balances the politi..."

Thanks Sam, that was very interesting. Hope tensions aren't too high after the memorial. Shame about Kimmel too. I assume it's no coincidence that a slew of programmes labelled 'faith and spirituality' have recently turned up on Netflix. Media companies clearly running scared. I suppose we can look forward to a future of Hallmark movies and reruns of The Waltons/Little House on the Prairie.

[Sam]

Alwynne wrote: "Sam wrote: "This Guardian opinion piece is the least hagiographic article I have seen since the tragedy. I think the piece may go a little too far in offering a negative portrayal, but IMO, balance..."

Your welcome. It was the first article from a major news provider that I saw offering a balanced opinion. There are more now, and I will link the Ta-Nehisi Coates piece from Vanity Fair.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story...

I still don't see a decent article objectively reporting on the whole of media coverage, nor am I seeing any examination of the coverage and possible exaggeration of the event's importance as manufactured news, and I am hoping to see both, eventually.

I am mostly politically inactive so I am not watching any coverage nor has it interested anyone I know with the exception of some sports fans who are irate that a sporting event they wanted to see was preempted by the funeral. So my interest in this is as a media anomaly and I'll be curious where it goes from here. I want to apologize if anyone is offended at my posting of any materials, and if there is an issue, please advise and I will discontinue. It just seems that forums are either overflowing with meme/bot posts or absent of any comment whatsoever, and seeing some political content here, I thought what I posted might be seen as acceptable.
But please... if anyone feels offended, please speak out as I am here for commenting on books not politics and I certainly don't wish to troll or preach.

[Alwynne]

Sam wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Sam wrote: "This Guardian opinion piece is the least hagiographic article I have seen since the tragedy. I think the piece may go a little too far in offering a negative portrayal, ..."

I'm not offended. I'm not even sure what it is you've said that might be construed as problematic. I am just concerned about the harmful impact Kirk's assassination may have on specific communities. Reports are already coming though on attacks and threats directed at trans people living in America. I see that pro-Trump musicians have even released a track urging followers to bring back lynching!

The Cambridge Union debate was very illuminating as to the damaging 'myths' that people like Kirk have been instrumental in spreading. I've seen on here and elsewhere, for example, people repeating his assertion that FGM is a specifically Muslim practice and using that as yet another way of inciting anti-Muslim racism. FGM, of course, predates Islam and is practiced across a wide range of religious groups - and non-religious ones - including Christians.

[Roman Clodia]

This Guardian article is interesting on analysing the rhetoric used by Kirk: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/n...

Sam, while we try to keep party politics out of the book discussion threads (unless the book itself invites it), this general discussion thread is fine for anything members want to discuss, including news and politics.

[Sam]

I find the state of the world very sad right now. As people are demonized or labelled, I wonder that people fail to recognize them as people. Compassion has fallen into disfavor it seems. There was a television advertisement against pollution from 1970 that featured a Native American (actually an Italian actor portraying a Native American) reacting to pollution. Whatever emotion you imagine is being expressed in the face at the end of that ad is the emotion I feel toward the present world. I have to remind myself not to indulge that feeling too long. Here is the ad if you have never seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OHG...

[Cphe]

Ben wrote: "The writers I've either discovered or actually begun reading because of this group are: Elizabeth Bowen, Michael Frayn, John Le Carre, Rose Macauley, Ben Macintyre, Marcel Proust, Barbara Pym and V..."

@Ben

Elizabeth Bowen has been an interesting writer for me.

I find I have to be in the right frame of mind/mindset to read her novels.

[Roman Clodia]

Bowen certainly seems quite divisive as a writer. I love her and don't find her writing difficult as some do: I like her idiosyncratic style and the density of her books.

Susan and I did a buddy read of a group of her novels a couple of years ago so there will be threads here if anyone fancies reviving them.

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "This Guardian article is interesting on analysing the rhetoric used by Kirk: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/n...

Sam, while we try to keep part..."

Thanks R. C.! I don't think I'd taken on board quite how incestuous this whole movement is. I read The Guardian article on trad wives:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/n...

which led me to Lauren Southern writing about her experiences.

I can't bring myself to buy her memoir but found some interesting extracts on her Substack about travelling with Tommy Robinson and meeting Andrew Tate:

https://laurensouthern.substack.com/p...

[Roman Clodia]

Alwynne wrote: "I read The Guardian article on trad wives"

And the trad wives movement came up in our Ira Levin thread where we were discussing The Stepford Wives.

It does highlight how the Left is too interested in in-fighting amongst them/ourselves when we need to unite now.

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "

It does highlight how the Left..."

You're so right, it's one of the things about the Left that I really can't stand, hours of discussing/disagreeing over minor theoretical issues, and very little actually getting done! The Preeti Dhillon was interesting in that sense, the emphasis was on activism, and alliances with any suitable group that would help achieve a specific goal. So what if Stand Up to Racism is an SWP front, and thereby Trot, if they get stuff organised and don't require everyone become a paid-up member!

[Blaine]

New tag; same guy

[Roman Clodia]

Alwynne wrote: "So what if Stand Up to Racism is an SWP front, and thereby Trot, if they get stuff organised"

Haha, exactly! And the SWP people are so optimistic with it - the same guy has been selling SW outside my tube for about twenty years despite no-one buying it. I always give him my biggest smile. And they've been setting up on the high street on Saturdays with various petitions and boycott campaigns.

[Roman Clodia]

Blaine wrote: "New tag; same guy"

Um, ok!

[Alwynne]

For people who have access to the BBC this was interesting but annoying at the same time.

BBC Trending investigates how negative ‘pre-read’ and pre-publication Goodreads ratings are leaving writers - and readers - mystified. Goodreads is a popular website that invites users to track and share their reading habits – through ratings and reviews. But before they even hit the market, some books have attracted negative ratings, leaving authors mystified about who is behind them. So where are these ‘unfair’ ratings coming from - is this the work of individuals with vendettas or bots? And what can be done to stop them?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0m...

[Alwynne]

Blaine wrote: "New tag; same guy"

Okay worked it out! Do you need to be more anonymous now? In any case like the Bogart pic, he's sublime. Did you consider Humph in his honour? I'm assuming once others have worked it out too, then they shouldn't mention your old user name as that would defeat the object? I'll just call you B, if you don't mind?

[Blaine]

Alwynne wrote: "Okay worked it out! Do you need to be more anonymous now? In any case like the Bogart pic, he's sublime. Did you consider Humph in his honour?"

Ha ha! That would be a funny one, a continuing Harummph too. But not really in character. Anyway, more discretion than valour.

[Roman Clodia]

Ooh, is that still from Casablanca?

Probably wise.

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Ooh, is that still from Casablanca? "

It is indeed!

[Alwynne]

Blaine wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Okay worked it out! Do you need to be more anonymous now? In any case like the Bogart pic, he's sublime. Did you consider Humph in his honour?"

Ha ha! That would be a funny one, a ..."

Nothing wrong with discretion not these days anyway, seems the safest course. A friend once lived in a student flat-share where it turned out the phone was tapped because of their activist links. Think that cemented my sense that it was important to be vigilant in various contexts.

[Roman Clodia]

Alwynne wrote: "For people who have access to the BBC this was interesting but annoying at the same time."

Definitely annoying to me! I'm really tired of authors thinking they should be able to take our money and yet be immune from criticism because they've worked so hard.

I don't know why this is particularly an issue around books. It's seems perfectly acceptable to pan a film or TV show, to complain that your plumber did a bad job or that a bed you bought from John Lewis fell apart (yep, currently looking for a new bed!) So why do authors expect to get away free?

The author on the podcast wanting a right to reply to negative reviews is crazy - has she not learned from others who've got into spats with readers and come off worse?

I agree that it's annoying when there's a campaign against a particular author (JK Rowling, for example) or a topic but most readers on here can easily see beyond that.

Seems a bit of a non-story to me. But interested in what others think.

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "For people who have access to the BBC this was interesting but annoying at the same time."

Definitely annoying to me! I'm really tired of authors thinking they should be able to ta..."

I think they should have taken into account how readers use the site. Some just want to rate/rant for their own notes. Some people have accounts for ages without joining anything or linking to other accounts just to keep a note of reading etc I never look at overall ratings anyway, so not sure why they were fixating on those.

Also they conveniently didn't mention the authors whose friends/family join just to leave five-star reviews!

[Roman Clodia]

Exactly. Also they don't mention how the site is full of amazing, funny, sarcastic, super-smart, engaged and knowledgeable readers who write the kind of genuine reviews that will never appear in the press.

[Cphe]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "For people who have access to the BBC this was interesting but annoying at the same time."

Definitely annoying to me! I'm really tired of authors thinking they should be able to ta..."

Someone said years ago -

"My time, my money.......my review"

[Judy]

Thank you for the link, Alwynne, I found it interesting. It does sound odd that it's possible to leave ratings and reviews before review copies are even available, but as GR never seems to update its website I don't suppose anything will be done about that. The bots and spammers are ongoing issues, sadly.

I do agree that the programme could at least have mentioned the more positive aspects of GR, like the groups and the huge numbers of genuine reviews.

[D]

Hello!

I’ve been quietly following this wonderful group for a few years now. I haven’t really posted much on GR, but I always enjoy the discussions and discovering everyone’s recommendations, and thought this might be worth sharing for fellow Londoners.

Someone at my library has put together a Substack that amalgamates all the literary events happening in London, organised by date.
It’s new (apparently the formatting is still being worked on), but it already seems like a really convenient way to keep track!

https://literarylistingslondon.substa...

Hope some of you find it useful!