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Vaccine Science Revisited: Are Childhood Immunizations As Safe As Claimed? (The Underground Knowledge Series, #8)
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VACCINE SCIENCE REVISITED > Childhood immunizations -- Are vaccines for kids as safe as Big Pharma claims they are?

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message 1: by James, Group Founder (last edited Dec 24, 2018 12:36AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Update Dec 2018:

Coming soon...An unbiased, neutral, factual, look into vaccines... No theories...no agenda...just the latest scientific research. That's it...

VACCINE SCIENCE REVISITED: Are Childhood Immunizations As Safe As Claimed?

VACCINE SCIENCE REVISITED Are Childhood Immunizations As Safe As Claimed? by James Morcan


message 2: by Laureen (last edited Mar 28, 2015 03:04AM) (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments I try not to judge anyone for anything. When I was about 4yrs old (before the measles vaccine was invented) all my siblings got the measles including me. The difference was, I didn't develop the tell-tale rash and went to school although I didn't 't feel well. I had kissed my Mum goodbye in the morning and she came down with full blown measles. Obviously I was a carrier.

Almost straight after the family episode with measles, I got my first asthma attack which seen me hospitalised a number o times before I "grew out" of it but was left with allergic rhinitis for a number if years until I got asthma back at about 40yrs of age. It was not hereditary as no one in my family had a history.

Measles and mumps can cause lifetime health issues. My brother got the mumps and lost the use of a testicle. Whooping Cough was a very distressing disease for babies and young children. I personally think vaccination is one of the best advances of science. I remember lining up at school for my small pox vaccination and didn't like or want it at all, but I am now very grateful it was available. Even those who survived small pox were marked forever.

Yes, I believe that some people do not respond well to vaccination, but many of the diseases of the past have been wiped out through vaccination except for poor countries where the expense is a prohibitive. However, unless we are all vaccinated, the chances of catching a disease such as I have mentioned is just so much more. Even now, due to people refusing yo have their children vaccinated, we are finding these diseases are becoming present, transferred within our schools, which puts everybody at risk.

I don't judge others for the decisions they make when it only affects their own but to disregard the health of the community they live in is not responsible in my mind. Even people who have been vaccinated have a risk of developing the disease in later life if they have not kept up with immunisation which most people have felt is unnecessary seeing as most of our children are being vaccinated. Now I wonder. In Queensland, it appears that the instance of measles has progressed to an unacceptable level.


message 3: by Harry (new) - added it

Harry Whitewolf | 1736 comments The Swine Flu vaccination (Swine Flu being a possible manmade epidemic according to some conspiracy theorists), which was rushed out in super quick timing at the height of the 'panic', can cause narcolepsy. Many lives -all children as far as I'm aware- were effected to extremes and although the U.K government withdrew its statement concerning the safety of the vaccine, they're still refusing to pay out compensation to those affected by it.

Read more about it here: http://www.theguardian.com/society/20...


message 4: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments What's your thought on the growing body of evidence that appears to support the possible connection between child vaccines and autism, Harry?


message 5: by Harry (new) - added it

Harry Whitewolf | 1736 comments I don't know a huge deal about that but have heard of it and am aware that there's a great deal of evidence for it being true: in some cases, at least.

Just like so many other damn examples...


message 6: by Harry (new) - added it

Harry Whitewolf | 1736 comments Personally, I trust cigarettes more than vaccines. I mean, if we're all being poisoned anyway...


message 7: by Laureen (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments Please let's keep some perspective here. One in 55,000 jabs? That's like winning the worst lottery ever. Compensation sort, 120,000 pounds! Maybe the lottery win wasn't so bad after-all.

Now I would like to send a thankyou to all those medical researchers who have done wonderful things to eradicate childhood and adult diseases. Yes, sometimes a new vaccine or medicine turns out to be an allergen for some of our population. But the advantages far out way the risk. Are you seriously saying that it would be better to still have polio around as a childhood disease?

We have very stringent safety nets in what passes for acceptable preventive treatments or medicines these days that are not allowed onto the market until proven to be as safe as possible. Unlike the days when that morning-sickness drug (forgot it's name) truly caused devastation with limbless children being born.

What truly gives me the horrors is the unprecedented number of the legal fraternity chancing the almighty dollar/pound by encouraging law suits against many people merely trying to make a safer world to live in. We call them "ambulance chasers" in Australia where we haven't yet got to the extreme that the USA appears to have arrived at.


message 8: by Laureen (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments EdWrite wrote: "Pharmaceutical testing, invariably done by those in the employ of the entities with profit potential as well as that somewhat hidden of a lucrative career for the "scientists" finding improvement f..."

If pharmaceutical companies didn't make a profit from selling their products, then all those that work for that company would not have a job, or would not get paid. Whether you are the office cleaner, the computer operator, the salesman or the manager or the scientists employed to make and perfect new discoveries.

I know there is an imbalance in how much CEOs of big companies get paid but putting them out of business does not help the sick or the workforce of your nation. We have to attack the problem from an entirely different perspective and there are some very good socially conscious companies out there. Start praising the good works and more companies will see the advantage of having a social conscious.


message 9: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Did you say you work in the medical system, Laureen? I seem to vaguely recall you said you're a nurse, but possibly I'm confusing you with someone else...


message 10: by Laureen (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments Yes, you are confusing me with someone else. I am a small business operator however, and I do get annoyed when any business is deemed corrupt when most businesses offer a great service to the public they serve and employ people and train people.

Profit is not a dirty word. It pays the owner/operator (often less than their employees), their own employees and the follow on is that the products they buy from other companies employs their employees etc etc. I think people forget that profit equates to a wage.


message 11: by James, Group Founder (last edited Apr 13, 2015 04:54PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Laureen wrote: "Profit is not a dirty word. It pays the owner/operator (often less than their employees), their own employees and the follow on is that the products they buy from other companies employs their employees etc etc. I think people forget that profit equates to a wage. ..."

I'm primarily a Capitalist and believe it's the fairest economic system and I dislike socialism/communism. So profit is not a dirty word in my books either. There are many fair businesses with good ethics and as you say companies create jobs and that in turn fuels communities.

However, we also need to realize unregulated capitalism can be a problem. Sometimes governments need to keep an eye on companies. Especially when you get into really big business such as Big Pharma where trillions of dollars are at stake annually - about as much as the banking, oil and war industries.

So like most things, one needs to keep these issues in balance and see the positives and negatives, I feel. We cannot ignore the bad stuff going on in certain sectors.

Most in Big Pharma are no doubt good people, but as discussed in other threads with governments if only 1% of politicians are destructive or deceptive then that can undo the good work of an entire administration. Same sometimes applies with Big Pharma where there is known to be a lot of corruption.


message 12: by James, Group Founder (last edited Apr 13, 2015 05:22PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Why This Nurse Will NOT Vaccinate Herself or Children -- https://www.goodreads.com/videos/8269...

Some good vaccine information in this video from a US Nurse - she mentions the rumoured autism links to vaccines and also the links to increasing autoimmune diseases and children and adults alike.

I got no idea what the best way is - to vaccinate or not to vaccinate - but I do think there needs to be a wider public debate and it ain't necessarily as cut and dried issue as Big Pharma would have us believe...


message 13: by Laureen (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments Yes I agree James, so long as we realise that what science is doing is improving the world particularly medical science. CEOs in big business do not deserve the massive payouts they get whether they are effective in their work or not. These companies are listed on the stock exchanges and so they are beholden to their stock holders.

There is something wrong there but I don't know how we can fix it. Companies need stock holders to have the financial resources to develop any new findings of researchers. However, the general public end up paying a much higher price for the product so the stock holders get their cut and the CEOs get their 10-15 million per year.

However, no matter how wrong this is, if the West wasn't "wealthy" we would have little hope of helping poorer nations stand on their own feet. I was in our local Pharmacy one day and asked how I should dispose of unused medicines. I was told that if the medicines were not past their used-by date, the Pharmacy would take them back as they get sent to poor countries who need medicines. I thought "brilliant". However the next time I took some medicine in I had no further use for, I was told they could no longer do that because the Government had declared the practice as "not safe".

How do we get to do the right thing when there is so much red tape attached to every worthwhile decision for the good of humanity?


message 14: by Laureen (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments EdWrite wrote: "Laureen wrote: "EdWrite wrote: "Pharmaceutical testing, invariably done by those in the employ of the entities with profit potential as well as that somewhat hidden of a lucrative career for the "s..."

Yes, Ed, you are right but that is exactly what happens on all sides of politics too. Hopefully big Pharma can find a cure for that sickness. Ha!

However, when a business fails it is criticised for having bad management but when Politicians break the Country and get chucked out at election time, they get a golden handshake and a pension to die for for the rest of their life as well as a prestige office, decked out of course, free travel etc etc., families included. Where is their accountability for bad decisions? Oh, that's right. It is a grey area when trying to judge what was a bad decision and what was unavoidable expenses and debts. Pity we can't all get off the hook so easily when we stuff up. We just have to wear it and retire poor.


message 15: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments EdWrite wrote: "Yeah, Laureen. I'm in the same boat, as are 99% of we Americans. And primarily due to the spending on the perennial "war on terrorism" federal budgetary concerns result in another purposely confusing debate about social security. Yikes. We paid into it in our working years. The estimated return on that legally defined form of insurance was thereby never tax deductible and was estimated by all to provide a return on investment somewhere between 1/10 and 1/3 what someone could get risk free in the open market. Yet, few complained because the program did a lot of good. After effectively depleting the "trust fund" through "investing" entirely in US government debt instruments, the authorities now have the audacity to treat it like its some sort of gift suffered by the vast majority and treat us codgers as they do welfare recipients. ..."

That's attrocious and very sad to hear.


message 16: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments School Nurse Confesses: “I Would Have NEVER Vaccinated My Own Children!” -- http://thepeopleschemist.com/school-n...

Another nurse against vaccines that I came across in the news this week.

Here are some excerpts from this article written by a chemist in which he interviews the nurse:

TPC #4: Have you ever observed a case where a child was vaccinated for a certain illness and yet still contracted that illness?

Joanne: Yes, we had Pertussis outbreak a few years ago. Of course, all the children have been immunized against Pertussis multiple times. Also, I have seen children get the flu even though they were vaccinated against the flu. I’ve seen students, and even my own daughter, break out with chicken pox even though they were vaccinated.

I also cannot believe the amount of children diagnosed with pneumonia this year. It is our number one reason why they’re out of school. Yet these kids were all given the Pneumococcal vaccine. Go figure.

Speaking of a recent sad event – a co-worker’s mom just died at the age of 50, of influenza. That turned into pneumonia, then she picked up MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) in the hospital. She was a healthy woman who came down with the flu. She had been getting annual flu shots. The doctors told the family it could have been worse if she did not get the shot. Seriously, what is worse than death??? She left behind a grieving husband and four children.

TPC #5: Over the years, what has changed in the way vaccines are administered?

Joanne: When I was working as a clinical nurse and giving flu shots, we would not give them to children. At the time, the thought was to let kids get the illness to build up immunity. Now people have gone the route of giving flu vaccines to healthy children.

If one really studies the immune system, you understand that there is already a first-line defense system in place and there is a cumulative response by the body, thus giving the body the optimum chance for effective mobilization of the immune system to occur.

TPC #6: What is your biggest qualm about vaccines?

Joanne: A vaccine exposes the body to a large amount of antigens directly into the bloodstream, effectively bypassing the body’s first-line defenses. As a result, the immune system registers this invasion as excessively traumatic and stressful.

My question is, are we setting our children up for MORE allergies, asthma, autism, and ear infections because of this? My children did not receive nearly the vaccines children today are receiving and never got a flu vaccine.

A great article that will NEVER again make me see vaccines in a positive light is this article: http://www.salem-news.com/articles/no...

TPC #7: You wrote: “If I could do it all over again, I would have never vaccinated my own children.” What led you to form this viewpoint?

Joanne: I worked as a Pediatric nurse and vaccinated lots of babies throughout the years. My own daughter was part of a research project, testing a baby’s stress level after receiving vaccines at 2, 4, and 6 months, by checking cortisol levels of saliva post vaccination. I believe the results showed that babies had the greatest stress at 2 months, and less at the following 4 and 6 months.

Both of my children ran fevers, and were ill after receiving vaccines – supposedly all for the greater good. I then began hearing and reading about the dangers of vaccines. I learned that besides formaldehyde and mercury, vaccines also carried aborted fetal tissue cell lines and DNA, and that every single vaccine line is contaminated, possibly with cancer and viruses. Why would I choose that route instead of allowing my kids to get a normal childhood illness that I actually had as a child and survived just fine?

Indeed, if I could do it all over again, I would have never vaccinated my own children. That was back in the early 90’s – before internet and easy access to research was available.

TPC #8: Do you believe parents should have the right to vaccinate their kids if they want? Or are vaccines so dangerous, NOBODY should be allowed to use them?

Joanne: I firmly believe every parent has a right to choose whether or not to vaccinate. After much research, I personally believe vaccines are dangerous – and would love to see the medical community choose to stop the practice of vaccination altogether – unless they can prove they have a 100% safe vaccine, which will never happen.

I believe there’s an ulterior motive behind the vaccine movement that is, to put it frankly, money-driven and evil.

TPC #9: Describe some of your recent experiences in dealing with the vaccine issue. How are parents reacting?

Joanne: As a school nurse against immunizations, you can imagine the war I am in right now. I have very few families that vaccinate, and parents are up in arms about it. One of my secretaries at school is upset because she has children with a genetic heart defect and have defibrillators. She is so stressed out that her son in California is going to get measles from all the illegals who reside there. When I told her that Merck falsified its data – she doesn’t believe me.

When I attempted to tell this mom that the MMR has (rubella) contains aborted fetal tissue and thus infecting children with another’s DNA – she is more concerned about her child getting measles than aborted DNA. I told her strep was more dangerous than measles for her child’s heart condition. I saw measles cases back in the early 1980’s, and we always have occasional breakouts. I tried to tell her the media loves to scare us, and that I have 5 schools – the amount of children that are not vaccinated is less than 1%.

Today, one of the other nurses I work with called me because the principal wanted to know how many children are un-vaccinated in her school. Seriously – we have so many other things to worry about. When our principal wanted to demand that all children in our school be vaccinated, I told her she could not mandate it. There’s a state law in Minnesota that provides conscientious exemptions. She then told me the number 1 concern is that these un-vaccinated children will infect the others. My response was, ‘Well, then why bother with getting a vaccination in the first place?!?” Where is common sense these days??

Also, I was furious when my 21-year-old daughter who, in order to go to grad school, had to have a titer drawn for her MMR immunity. She was found not to be immune and was given a MMR. So in reality, how many of these kids whom we have vaccinated are actually immune in the first place?

TPC #10: You wrote, “As a school nurse against immunizations, you can imagine the war I am in right now.” What do you believe is the solution to this war? Is it simply for informed nurses and other professionals to quit and leave altogether so they can perhaps join an effort more focused on the SOLUTION (rather than the war)? Or keep fighting the war?

Joanne: This is a tough question. We have the medical community at large that still believes in vaccinating children. The guidelines are written so as to make sure children have received their vaccines as a part of a routine well child visit.

Somehow we have to change the mindset against vaccination as a part of the “health” equation. These people honestly feel they are doing the greater good for society.

We need to start doing more critical thinking in order to make informed choices. As a parent, I would much rather see my child have a normal illness than develop lupus, cancer, MS, or sterility. As a nurse, I feel we need to start educating and developing a whole culture of health professionals who argue against vaccines.

There are doctors out there such as at this website: http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/doct...

I think we could start by offering community gatherings discussing vaccines, where people could come and find out more.

TPC #11: If you had the power to change the entire vaccine situation in schools, what would you like to see happening and why?

Joanne: If I had the power, I would stop mandating vaccines. This would, however, cause massive pandemonium. Too many people have been convinced that vaccines are saving our children’s lives. I think parents need to make informed decisions. They need be told the whole truth, and nothing but the truth when it comes to vaccines. If they still choose them after that, at least they can’t say they weren’t informed.

As a parent, I wish I had been given this information before I vaccinated my own kids, because it would have led me to not vaccinate.


About the Author:

My name is Shane “The People”s Chemist” Ellison. I hold a master’s degree in organic chemistry and am the author of Over-The-Counter Natural Cures Expanded Edition (SourceBooks).


message 17: by Laureen (last edited Apr 14, 2015 02:25PM) (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments That's a very interesting article James. Although I wonder who is scaring whom here. Now you have put me on the fence and I don't know what to believe.
.
I do believe that scientists wouldn't have a job if they didn't get on some profit making big company's pay roll. But I also think most scientists like any other profession have a social conscience. It is always a few ambitious high rollers at the top who convince themselves that they are really good guys working for the good of the people who then convince their lackies that they are all working for the good of mankind that may request research outcomes that validate their view point.

However, I can't believe that this would be able to permeate the minds if the majority. People who enter scientific fields such as medicine do so because they can see their vocation is purposeful and ethically respected. They would be breaking the trust of the masses if they were being "bought". Medical science is about improving health not making people sick.

However, it is strange that there are so many unexplained illnesses around these days. When my children were little, like 40yrs ago, the triple antigen injection had not been invented nor were immunizations against common illnesses like measles.

We did have immunizations for polio and small pox and I believe they were extremely effective in wiping out those diseases. When I was little I caught all the childhood illnesses but I didn't get a full dose of measles. I got all the symptoms but not the rash. I was told I was a carrier. However I had been extremely healthy before I got measles and afterwards became dangerously ill with asthma. I was hospital used on a number of occasions and there were no effective drugs to treat asthma then.

Asthma was rarely heard of and the teachers at school didn't know what to do with me when I had an attack. I was not excused on sports days as the teacher I had did not recognize or know anything about asthma. I didn't even have enough breath to tell her I couldn't breathe.

My point is that these days there are wonderful drugs for treating asthma. However there is so much more asthma around. I do believe that our immunity to germs has been severely affected through our overuse of cleaning agents and fear of germs. We are advised to have stainless steel kitchens - easier to disinfect, are children shouldn't play in the dirt or put things in their mouths that haven't been sterilized.

We now even have chemical hand washes to kill those nasty germs not yo mention dish cloths impregnated with germ killing agents. Our bodies are full of good germs and bad germs and our immune systems are supposed to cope with most viruses and bacterial infections. We are stopping our bodies from dealing with germs and then wondering why we get sick.

However, back to immunization. I think we should definitely keep immunizing against serious illnesses like polio. The very idea of those sort of illnesses coming back fills me with horror. For the rest, I don't know whether it is immunization or our lifestyles causing these new debilitating diseases. And with Alzheimer's - is it because we are living longer or because of lifestyle?

I just think we have to be careful when making these sort of decisions.


message 18: by Kelly (new)

Kelly Higgins | 77 comments James you might have confused Laureen with me as I'm studying nursing. With that article, the pneumococcal bacteria is not the only way you can get pneumonia. And I find it strange that they only mention pneumonia and not middle ear infections (which are more common) or meningitis in regards to the pneumococcal vaccine.

The MRSA case is not unheard of unfortunately. I end up with the flu if I get the flu shot, but my grandmother doesn't. Getting pneumonia in hospital was due to malpractice. As was MRSA. Pneumonia- Spending too much time in bed, not doing deep breathing and coughing exercises (coughing up mucous). MRSA- Too many antimicrobials that weren't needed, poor handwashing and other hygiene practices in between patients. MRSA is from overuse of things like antibiotics when not needed. People get them for common cold and now we have super bugs.

I don't agree with the recent policy that Tony Abbott wants to bring in about unless your child has religious or medical reasons to not be vaccinated, the parent can't receive any benefit for the child. But I also believe that not all of the children who parents claim have Autism or ADD/ADHD actually have it. For some kids a bit of discipline including a smack (I know it worse than swearing now) would cure the naughty kids that don't. I can tell the difference in the girls who genuinely have ADHD and Autism (even though it's more common in boys)and the ones where parents just need a reason to sue or not to discipline. Imagine how many adults would have now autism and ADHD if it was from vaccinations. But then we didn't use hand sanitizer every 20 seconds either.


message 19: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Thanks for your valuable insights, Kelly.
Coming from a trainee nurse, you know much more than me about all this.
I'm simply doing research in this area at present and think it's all very confusing.
It is pretty shocking when you learn about the poisons and other nasties in these vaccines going into young kids bodies...

And yes, Laureen - polio was one very successful vaccine. I also share your viewpoint that we may be over-immunising for other (lesser) diseases.


message 20: by Laureen (last edited Apr 15, 2015 01:44AM) (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments Kelly wrote: "James you might have confused Laureen with me as I'm studying nursing. With that article, the pneumococcal bacteria is not the only way you can get pneumonia. And I find it strange that they only m..."

Great input Kelly. Much appreciated. The only thing I might have a problem with is Tony Abbotts proposed legislation. I think it is a bit over the top. It would be more beneficial if he could use a persuading tactic rather than a sledge hammer. But he does have a point. I think immunization should be continued the way it was in the old days for serious life threatening illnesses (maybe at like it used to be). It is hard for a mother to take her precious baby for its first jab. I remember it well but it hurt me more than the baby.

Parents should be able to make their own decisions but perhaps they should be made to take responsibility in another way. Like maybe if the child developed the disease that the parent didn't immunize it for, then they should not be able to use free services to irradiate it. Then we have the problem of seeming to punish the child for the parent's choices. It is a difficult social problem.

There is another side to childhood diseases. My parents believed that once your child had a childhood disease like the mumps, measles or chicken pox, the child then became naturally immune to the disease. I believe the medical profession agrees with this. So all this vaccination argument comes down to some children being allergic to the vaccination in which case we could believe that they would equally be allergic to the childhood disease as I believe I was when I contracted asthma after having measles.

It is just too idealistic to believe that we will ever live in a perfect world and we simply have to get over the blame game of finding someone else responsible. Having said that, I don't believe in being silent when there is undeniable proof that we are being harmed by the decisions our superiors take. Just be realistic, please. We do need to look after our own affairs as much as possible but we do have to consider whether our personal decisions affect others in a negative way.


message 21: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Laureen wrote: "Parents should be able to make their own decisions but perhaps they should be made to take responsibility in another way. Like maybe if the child developed the disease that the parent didn't immunize it for, then they should not be able to use free services to irradiate it. Then we have the problem of seeming to punish the child for the parent's choices. It is a difficult social problem.
..."


I would ONLY agree to what you propose here as long as it works both ways: i.e. if it can be proven that certain vaccines can sometimes cause autism and other serious conditions in children (and the evidence is mounting...), then the parents of these children should not be able to access free services to treat these. I mean, if we're playing fair... ;)


message 22: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Harry wrote: "Personally, I trust cigarettes more than vaccines. I mean, if we're all being poisoned anyway..."

Ha!
The Whitewolf strikes again.


message 23: by oakie (new)

oakie (oakiedoki) James Morcan wrote: "Laureen wrote: "Parents should be able to make their own decisions but perhaps they should be made to take responsibility in another way. Like maybe if the child developed the disease that the pare..."

What evidence is mounting that the vaccines can cause serious conditions?


message 24: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Hi Alyssa - as per the news links already posted in this thread including the videos/interviews with registered nurses. But if you do some independent research on the subject you'll see the media around the world has run thousands of articles on the subject and there are ongoing medical investigations on the possible links between the chemicals in child vaccines and serious diseases/syndromes such as Autism.

Please note however, I used the word evidence not proof. Meaning there is a growing body of evidence thaat points in this direction, but not conclusively proven


message 25: by Robert (new)

Robert Wright (RHWright) | 30 comments A few thoughts:

• This article annoys me. While it starts out and kind of tries to give the appearance of a balanced look at things, it is clearly biased on the anti-vax side. Or as the author puts it, "I am also doing it to show you why parents who do not vaccinate are not crazy at all, and in fact quite intelligent and up to date on important information." You're anti-vax? Fine. Stake your position and own it. Drop the pretense of fair and balanced.

• Vaccines, like any medical procedure or substance, carry of risk for the benefit. In general, the risk is low and the benefit to the individual and to the population outweighs that.

• I think there is room for discussion on vaccine ingredients, requirements, and schedules. As a side note, thimerosal, one of the big bugbears of anti-vaxers, has decreased sharply in its use in the US. From FDA.gov: "Since 2001, all vaccines manufactured for the U.S. market and routinely recommended for children ≤ 6 years of age have contained no thimerosal or only trace amounts (≤ 1 microgram of mercury per dose remaining from the manufacturing process), with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine."

• The autism link is not clearly established in any scientific way. It's 100% anecdotal as far as I can see. This is as much due to the causes of autism being poorly defined and understood at this point (likely multi-factorial, both genetically and environmentally) and a range of conditions and severity being lumped under "autistic spectrum disorders." Not easily defining exactly what the damage is makes it difficult to positively ascertain the cause/trigger of that damage.

• On a personal note, believe me, as the parent of a child with autism and other developmental delays, I've considered this at length and looked at a lot of the scientific research and "alternative" research. The case for the "vaccines caused this" just was not persuasive. As much as I would like a simple—or, for that matter, any—answer as to the causes or a real treatment.

• The medical "industry" issue is separate for me, and I think there is much to that side. Our health should not be subject to what is profitable for a corporation. We, as a society and a species, are better than that.

• In the end, vaccinations save more lives than they harm. Refusing, absolutely, to vaccinate puts people at risk.

• As with many cases of extremes, I think the answer is somewhere in the middle ground. Neither in the "vaccines are a harmful, evil conspiracy" or the "vaccines are perfectly effective and 100% safe" camps.

• Unfortunately, it's not just a matter of personal freedom, as someone else's decision about how they fight a communicable disease can affect my health and welfare. It makes it a difficult balancing act.

I've probably rambled on too much. But that's my 2 cents.


message 26: by Laureen (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments EdWrite wrote: "James Morcan wrote: "EdWrite wrote: "Laureen wrote: "That's a very interesting article James. Although I wonder who is scaring whom here. Now you have put me on the fence and I don't know what to..."

Oh Ed, that last line reminded me of someone very dear to me. Now I have a tear in my eye! You should know Ed that I do not believe that scientists are morally superior. Like anybody else, they can be bought. However, I was just pondering about whether medical science may be different because anyone entering the medical science field must be interested in helping humanity. At least, I would have thought.

I don't know what the hell I've been writing about either!


message 27: by Laureen (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments Robert wrote: "A few thoughts:

• This article annoys me. While it starts out and kind of tries to give the appearance of a balanced look at things, it is clearly biased on the anti-vax side. Or as the author put..."


I think I agree with most of what you have said Robert. Another point is that research surrounding Autism is still in the early stages but Autism has been around for a much longer time. I think it is because science is struggling, still, with understanding the brain.

I find it a bit hard to imagine that a different wiring of the brain can be caused by immunization. But maybe a medical scientist could answer that?


message 28: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments I agree Robert - the truth is likely to exist somewhere in the Middle Ground on this issue like most things in life.


message 29: by Kelly (new)

Kelly Higgins | 77 comments I don't know whether Robert will agree, but Autism is something that you are born with. It is just normally blamed on vaccinations because of how long it takes before you can see a baby or toddlers normal development and behaviour.

You also have a small amount of natural immunity as a baby through the placenta. Children who have never had vaccinations can still have Autism. So should they study what happens during the growth of the baby and force people to have an abortion? I know that sounds harsh but how many people do you think would actually do it? After all a small amount of people are too scared to have vaccines in case their child ends up with Autism without any idea that a similar but more natural process happens through the placenta.


message 30: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Forced abortions?
Sounds like eugenics to me ;)

Also, Given that there are various medical doctors who have supported the theory that certain vaccines may cause autism, I would've thought such doctors would not even consider the possible link if as you say autism is locked in at birth.


message 31: by Kelly (new)

Kelly Higgins | 77 comments Aspergers no longer exists and Autism Spectrum Disorder is supposed to reflect that no two people with Autism are alike.

Yes they would have been considered an antisocial kid or had OCD/perfectionist instead of disabled. A lot of these children are exceptionally talented in a particular area, how do you explain this with the "caused by vaccine" theory?


message 32: by Laureen (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments I think it is like any other form of judgment making. Like racism. Because people are wired differently to what we consider to be "normal" they are given a label. So instead of having a couple of syndromes under the banner of Autism, we like to consider Autism as quite a sever disability whereas Aspergers doesn't seem to fit. Many with high functioning autism are highly educated and can be very talented in mental exercises like problem solving.

I cannot understand how any medical doctor could leap to explanation like immunization causes it. I have wondered in the past if it is not a part of the evolution of the brain. Lower functioning autism might just be an in between stage of that evolution, with higher functioning autism a step further.


message 33: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments The Vaccine Autism Cover-up: How One Doctor’s Career was Destroyed for Telling the Truth - http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/the-...

New Published Study Verifies Doctor Andrew Wakefield’s Research on Autism – Again (MMR Vaccine Causes Autism) -- http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/2013/...

But whether these theories are true or not, the point is autism is one of hundreds of diseases anti-vaccine doctors say can be caused by child immunisations. So even if it's one day proven that autism has no link whatsoever to immunizations, that's not going to stop the ongoing concerns parents have.

This article here is a good summary of the reasons more parents are saying no to immunizations:

Six Reasons To Say NO to Vaccination -- http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.co...


#1: Pharmaceutical Companies Can’t Be Trusted

Let’s just list a couple of the (many) times over the past 10 years where a drug or drug regimen has been deemed unsafe and downright dangerous and yet the pharmaceutical companies covered it up FOR YEARS in order to continue raking in the profits for as long as possible. This should be an easy task.

How about hormone replacement therapy for women? The standard of care for a menopausal woman for over 40 years was HRT. Even women with no complaints were advised that this treatment was helpful as it reduced chances for a heart attack and cancer and even helped them feel younger. Were any, I repeat ANY of these claims true? Not a whit. Breast cancer risk is doubled for women on HRT, 41% increased risk for stroke, 29% increased risk of heart attack, and the list goes on and on.

How about Vioxx? Before this dangerous drug that caused thousands of deaths from heart attack and stroke was finally removed from the market, evidence surfaced that Merck had withheld information and even doctored reports on its dangers years before. As of November 2007, Merck had agreed to pay $4.85 billion to settle approximately 27,000 cases from victims claiming injury or death of a family member using Vioxx. While this is a huge sum of money, in reality it represents less than one year’s profits for Merck. Does it pay for a drug company to lie about a drug’s safety and efficacy? You betcha. The risk of payouts to victims from getting sued is lower than the lure of huge and long lasting profits while a drug’s patent protection remains in effect.

I could cite other examples, but I’m trying to keep this post as pithy as possible. Please comment if you have other examples of pharmaceutical company deceit. It will help others reading this blog who might still be on the fence about this issue.

Remember the old proverb, “Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me”? These corporate behemoths have proven themselves to be completely untrustworthy based on past behavior. In a court of law, if such a company were an actual witness, an attorney would never put them on the stand due to a serious lack of credibility. Are you really going to take these companies at their word that these shots are safe when money and profits are impacted by their answer?

UPDATE January 2015: Merck, the manufacturer of the MMR vaccine is currently embroiled in two lawsuits for falsifying data on the effectiveness of the mumps vaccine. One of these lawsuits was brought by two of its own scientists! Just another example of a the lying and fraud perpetuated by the drug companies with regard to vaccination.

#2: ALL Vaccines are Loaded with Chemicals and other Poisons

Here is a list of some of the damaging ingredients in the vaccines on the market today:

MSG, antifreeze, phenol (used as a disinfectant), formaldehyde (cancer causing and used to embalm), aluminum (associated with alzheimer’s disease and seizures), glycerin (toxic to the kidney, liver, can cause lung damage, gastrointestinal damage and death), lead, cadmium, sulfates, yeast proteins, antibiotics, acetone (used in nail polish remover), neomycin and streptomycin. And the ingredient making the press is thimerosol (more toxic than mercury, a preservative still used in many vaccines, not easily eliminated, can cause severe neurological damage as well as other life threatening autoimmune disease). These vaccines are grown and strained through animal or human tissue, like monkey and dog kidney tissue, chick embryo, calf serum, human diploid cells (the dissected organs of aborted fetuses), pig blood, horse blood and rabbit brain.

Can you imagine injecting this stuff directly into your child’s body? At least if you ate these ingredients, your body would have a chance to detoxify and eliminate them before any permanent damage could be done. But, to inject them deep into the body’s tissues where the toxins are absorbed directly into the blood is the most damaging and lethal approach imaginable. How could anyone possibly think injection of such a cocktail of poison could in any way help preserve and enhance your child’s health?

It sure didn’t make any sense to me. And, here I am 17 years later, still very happy with my decision NOT to vaccinate my children.

Sadly, I know many Moms with 20/20 hindsight who greatly regret their decision to vaccinate. I don’t know ANYONE who has not vaccinated and regrets their decision, however. Which group do you want to be a part of in 10 years?

#3: Fully Vaccinated Children are the Unhealthiest, Most Chronically Ill Children I Know

One thing that completely confounds me is that there are no studies comparing the health of unvaccinated children to the health of vaccinated children. This seems like such an obvious study and it should have been conducted decades ago. Why hasn’t it been done yet? My guess is because the health of the nonvaccinated children would so totally blow away the health of the vaccinated children that the discussion about the dangers of vaccines could finally be put to bed and the case would be closed emphatically in favor of those that accuse shots of causing chronic illness and auto immune disease.

Update since this post was written: Vaccinated children are found to be more chronically ill than unvaccinated children with rates for autism, ear infections, ADHD, asthma and allergies as much as 30% higher than unvaxed children.

Take an informal poll of the folks in your circle and see for yourself. Observation is a powerful tool, so put it to use. The kids with the most problems – allergies, asthma, ADHD, autism, coordination and other gross motor issues, etc sure seem to be the ones that are right on track with their vaccination schedule, don’t you think?

Even more powerful, ask Moms with several children, some of whom are vaccinated and some who are not. In my own circle, the Moms I know who have one or two older kids who are fully vaccinated and the younger kids who did not get any shots tell me that, hands down, that the unvaccinated children are healthier and have less problems.

Someday there will be a study that shows that unvaccinated children have many less health problems than their vaccinated peers. Don’t wait until this study is finally done because it will be too late for your child.

#4: Other Countries Are Waking Up to the Dangers of Vaccines

In 1975, Japan raised its minimum vaccination age to 2 years old, The country’s infant mortality subsequently plummeted to such low levels that Japan now enjoys one of the lowest level in the Western world (#3 at last look). In comparison, the United States’ infant mortality rate is #33.

In Australia, the flu vaccine was recently suspended (April 2010) for children under 5 because an alarming number of children were showing up in the emergency rooms with febrile convulsions or other vaccine reactions within hours of getting this shot.

Need I say more?

#5: A Number of Vaccines Have Already Had Problems/Been Removed from the Market

Here is a brief list of some of the vaccines that have caused serious injury in recent years. Please comment with others that you know of if they are not on this list:

– In Feb 2002, GlaxoSmithKline removed the Lyme Disease vaccine from the market citing poor sales when in fact a number of folks who received the vaccine reported symptoms worse than the disease itself such as incurable arthritis or neurological impairment.

– The Rotavirus vaccine (Rotashield) was removed from the market in 1999 due to an association between the vaccine and life threatening bowel obstruction or twisting of the bowl! Interestingly, my pediatrician at the time (who was a lifelong friend of our family) had highly recommended that this vaccine be given to my newborn baby at the time. I trusted my instincts and said no to the shot – am I glad I did! My pediatrician (remember, lifelong family friend) subsequently dropped me as a patient. Guess he wasn’t such a friend after all! Click here for the full story.

– A warning was issued concerning the second Rotavirus vaccine (Rotateq) in 2007 as it caused the same twisting of the bowel problem in 28 infants (16 of which required intestinal surgery). This second vaccine has not yet been removed from the market as far as I know.

– Another vaccine that has had a lot of problems but is not yet withdrawn is the Gardasil vaccine for adolescent girls. Fainting, paralysis, slurred speech are just a few of the reactions reported and yet this vaccine continues to stay on the market. At least 1600 adverse events have been reported since its approval in 2006, yet doctors are continuing to recommend this shot to their patients. Why this vaccine hasn’t already been removed from the market is astonishing.

If the vaccines above have had serious problems, the others probably do too as vaccine manufacturers follow the same basic formula when coming up with each new shot.

#6 You Can Always Get Vaccinated, But You Can Never Undo a Vaccination

Procrastination is usually considered a character flaw, but in the case of vaccination, delaying the decision for as long as possible plays to your advantage. The longer you wait to vaccinate your child, the better. A child’s immune system continues to develop for years after birth. The blood/brain barrier does not fully develop until adolescence. The longer you wait, the more likely your child’s immune system will be able to handle the onslaught with minimal damage.

If you don’t know what to do, don’t do anything!

Conversely, you can never undo a vaccination. There are holistic therapies that can detox a child from the vaccine’s poison, but the damage that is done can never be 100% repaired. And, I have NEVER met a fully vaccinated child that is healthier and more robust than a well nourished, unvaccinated child. Period.

While I would like to convince you to never vaccinate your child, if I can simply convince you to delay it for a few years that is certainly better than vaccinating a baby. If you can simply commit to waiting until your child is school age to vaccinate, so much the better than if you vaccinate as a toddler and so on. Time is on your side and waiting is the best policy when it comes to shots.

By the time your child is older, more research will have been done, you will have an opportunity to learn more and become more comfortable with your decision to wait. Who knows? Your attitude of wait and see may turn out to be permanent.


message 34: by Laureen (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments I would just remind readers here that Autism is not a disease.


message 35: by James, Group Founder (last edited Nov 17, 2015 01:53PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments I think at the very least, those adults who are happy to vaccinate their children should be demanding (en masse) that pharmaceutical companies remove all the nasty and extreme chemicals and other poisons that are loaded in these vaccines. When you read the ingredients (which read like a can of household paint!) it's obvious these things just cannot be good for a child's brain or body health.

Reposting here just a selection of the worst ingredients found in vaccines for children:

MSG, antifreeze, phenol (used as a disinfectant), formaldehyde (cancer causing and used to embalm), aluminum (associated with alzheimer’s disease and seizures), glycerin (toxic to the kidney, liver, can cause lung damage, gastrointestinal damage and death), lead, cadmium, sulfates, yeast proteins, antibiotics, acetone (used in nail polish remover), neomycin and streptomycin. And the ingredient making the press is thimerosol (more toxic than mercury, a preservative still used in many vaccines, not easily eliminated, can cause severe neurological damage as well as other life threatening autoimmune disease). These vaccines are grown and strained through animal or human tissue, like monkey and dog kidney tissue, chick embryo, calf serum, human diploid cells (the dissected organs of aborted fetuses), pig blood, horse blood and rabbit brain.

Now for all I know it's possibly better for a child to endure all these doses of various chemicals and poisons at a young age than risk serious diseases like polio, but that doesn't make it right.

If enough parents and common citizens (and equally importantly governments) demanded less poisonous vaccines, then Big Pharma would be forced to changed. But unfortunately only a small percentage of the public are aware.

I also think Japan has the right idea by making it illegal to immunise a child less than 2 years old. Babies and infants seem just to young and vulnerable to be injected with these nasties...


message 36: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Laureen wrote: "I would just remind readers here that Autism is not a disease."

Yeah, true, it's a disorder isn't it?
Anyway, good spotting - I was researching various diseases at the time and my mind possibly lumped autism into the mix.
Maybe this means I have a disorder also? :)


message 37: by Laureen (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments Ha James, no disorder I known of unless "cute" is a disorder. Sorry, I just knew I had to say that but don't get defensive - not excessively cute if that helps!


message 38: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Laureen wrote: "Ha James, no disorder I known of unless "cute" is a disorder. Sorry, I just knew I had to say that but don't get defensive - not excessively cute if that helps!"

That's it! I'm going underground!


message 39: by Kelly (new)

Kelly Higgins | 77 comments Aren't you already underground?


message 40: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Kelly wrote: "Aren't you already underground?"

Yeah, buried (alive) deep underground.


message 41: by Laureen (last edited Apr 17, 2015 05:04AM) (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments James Morcan wrote: "Laureen wrote: "Ha James, no disorder I known of unless "cute" is a disorder. Sorry, I just knew I had to say that but don't get defensive - not excessively cute if that helps!"

That's it! I'm g..."


Well, we must part. See, I'm going to Heaven with the dinosaurs. Much more fun than being Underground, in the dark.


message 42: by Robert (new)

Robert Wright (RHWright) | 30 comments Kelly wrote: "I don't know whether Robert will agree, but Autism is something that you are born with. It is just normally blamed on vaccinations because of how long it takes before you can see a baby or toddlers..."

Kelly, I would totally agree.

But I also think multiple factors determine if, and to what extent, the disorder(s) express themselves for each individual. So far, the genetic risk factors do not seem to be well understood. The environmental ones (such as the impact of certain vaccine ingredients or schedules) have not, IMO, been persuasively and conclusively demonstrated.

Heck, the extent of knowledge of the brain is so limited, it is difficult, again IMO, to determine what examples we now classify as "autism" might actually be normal acceptable variation and what might be a disorder. I think there is too much lumping of "other" behavior under autism that we should just be more accepting of.

Anecdotally, I think there is some support for looking at alternate theories and therapies with autism. For example, my son has improved greatly with a diet restricting gluten and dairy. This was an alternative largely dismissed by the mainstream of medicine.

But it works. For him. I've seen other parents try the same thing with little or no improvement for their child.

Which is part of why I believe that we lump too many diagnoses under the autism heading that present similar behavioral, cognitive, and physical challenges, but which likely have different causes.

But at least we have left the "refrigerator mother" theory behind in the dustbin.


message 43: by Robert (new)

Robert Wright (RHWright) | 30 comments This book really opened our eyes and what we took from it really improved our son's, and our, lives.

Unraveling the Mystery of Autism and Pervasive Developmental Disorder: A Mother's Story of Research & Recovery


message 44: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Robert wrote: "Anecdotally, I think there is some support for looking at alternate theories and therapies with autism. For example, my son has improved greatly with a diet restricting gluten and dairy. This was an alternative largely dismissed by the mainstream of medicine.
..."


Fantastic to hear, Robert! May your son go from strength to strength.
And thanks for sharing your experiences.
I also agree with the implication you're making that every child/person is much more than a label.


message 45: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Here's another excerpt from our soon-to-be published book MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX: The $ickness Industry, Big Pharma and Suppressed Cures:

Given all the examples listed in previous chapters of drug companies’ fraudulent activities, can society trust Big Pharma enough to be sure child immunizations are also not dangerous?

Is there any limit to the lengths drug companies will go in order to maximize revenue? And if adult lives are not safe in this mad pursuit of profits, can we be certain children’s lives won’t also be viewed as expendable?

But surely they wouldn’t suppress scientific evidence of dangers when it comes to children? We hear you ask.

Surely they wouldn’t go that far? Right?

Well, you may well be right, but let’s break things down a little.

Firstly, it is an indisputable medical fact that immunizations protect many millions of children every year from potentially deadly diseases and save countless lives. This is completely undeniable as vaccines have all but eradicated a whole host of series diseases such as polio.

Given the reportedly overwhelming scientific evidence that prove the effectiveness of child immunizations, this sounds like it should be the end of story and case closed.

However, not all parents or even health industry professionals agree it is as simple an issue as it seems to be on the surface. Some doctors, nurses and other health experts argue the underreported risks of vaccinating infants far outweigh the protection they provide against certain diseases.

At the time of writing Californian politicians were considering passing a new law – Senate Bill 277 (aka SB 277) – making it mandatory for Californian residents to vaccinate their children.

Taking away parents’ ability to choose has stirred up the vaccine debate again especially in alternative media.

Healthy living website Elephant ran an article by health campaigner Elliot Freed on the issues at stake with California’s lawmakers in an April 23, 2015 article. The new story hinted at the complexity that goes beyond whether vaccines are safe and effective.

“In 1986 vaccine manufacturers were given financial immunity from the damages of their products by congress.”

It turns out this law change lead to a program that is funded by a seventy-five cent levy on every vaccine sold.

The article heavily implies that through this legal and/or political loophole, drug companies can repeatedly dodge most claims which try to establish a link between vaccines and injury to children.

The Elephant article also mentions how more child vaccines than ever have disease-producing pathogens in them, especially since liability was eliminated for drug companies producing vaccines. The list of vaccines containing pathogens, according to the article, includes “the MMR, the dTap and the oral polio vaccine”.

Because of the financial immunity in the production of vaccines, pharmaceutical manufacturers are now much more focused on developing vaccines than drugs.

It’s a lower risk operation.

“Drugs go through a more rigorous testing process. They are then optional for consumers and consumers and governments can sue pharmaceutical companies for damages caused by the drugs. Vaccines are subject to a less rigorous testing process, saving millions of dollars for each drug sold as a vaccine.”

And of course, vaccines need far less advertising costs – especially when governments make their usage mandatory.

“This is not about vaccines for diseases like polio or measles,” Freed continues in the article and goes on to predict that many other future vaccines will be made mandatory as well. “Where are the infectious epidemics that are killing our children? I don’t see them.”

According to Freed, if the bill passes, “No state legislator, no school administrator, no doctor and no parent will be able to say no to any chemical mandated by the federal government to be injected into children, so long as it is packaged as a vaccine’.”

Is this paranoia?

Unfounded speculation?

Only theories that tin foil hat-wearing conspiracy theorists would believe in?

Not according to RFK’s son, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., who has warned the public that a medically induced 'holocaust' is now upon us.

In an article that appeared on Natural News on April 26, 2015, the attorney, radio host, environmental activist and author was reported as adding his voice to those against the proposed SB 277.

“At a recent screening of the powerful new documentary film Trace Amounts, which exposes the scientific connection between mercury in vaccines and autism, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. warned an audience of supportive viewers that vaccines are essentially poison vials causing a "holocaust" in our country.

“The nephew of former U.S. president John F. Kennedy, RFK Jr. attended the screening in solidarity with Californian parents who are fighting to stop Senate Bill 277 from eliminating their freedom as Californians to exempt their children from "mandatory" vaccinations. Speaking to the crowd, Kennedy emphasized the proven dangers of vaccines.”

“ ‘They can put anything they want in that vaccine and they have no accountability for it,’ stated Kennedy about the vaccine industry, which ironically maintains its own exclusive and unconstitutional exemption from legal liability for vaccines that injure and kill children.”

At the April 2015 screening of Trace Amounts in California – where not a single invited politician showed up – RFK Jr. received standing ovations as he mentioned how the film helped persuade lawmakers in Oregon to scrap a bill similar to California’s SB 277.

Trace Amounts chronicles the true story of Eric Gladen’s horrific struggles with mercury poisoning that he believes resulted from a thimerosal-loaded tetanus shot. His discoveries led him on a quest for the scientific truth about the potential role of mercury poisoning in the world’s current Autism epidemic.

The Natural News article also mentions that Kennedy “empathized with parents of vaccine-injured children who often have no support from the legal system, and sometimes even from their friends and family members, in addressing the damage caused by vaccine quackery.

“They get the shot, that night they have a fever of a hundred and three, they go to sleep, and three months later their brain is gone,” lamented Kennedy about how vaccine injuries progress. “This is a holocaust, what this is doing to our country.”

It’s worth noting that not all who are opposed to the vaccine law reforms being considered in California and elsewhere in the US/world are anti-child immunizations.

Some campaigners are actually individuals who either have had their own children vaccinated or else advised other parents vaccinate, but also argue that making immunizations mandatory is unconstitutional and against citizens’ medical freedom.

Are those who do not vaccinating their own children putting other children, and society as a whole, at risk?

We definitely do not have a definite answer to that, nor does it seem anyone else knows for sure either. Added to the difficulty of getting accurate research and definitive statistics is the problem of wide-scale corruption that’s only to be expected with any industry as profitable as Big Pharma.


message 46: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments The recently published Thimerosal: Let the Science Speak: The Evidence Supporting the Immediate Removal of Mercury-a Known Neurotoxin-from Vaccines, co-authored by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., might be worth a read to educate oneself on the flip-side of vaccines.

Thimerosal Let the Science Speak The Evidence Supporting the Immediate Removal of Mercury-a Known Neurotoxin-from Vaccines by Mark Hyman


message 47: by James, Group Founder (last edited May 01, 2015 01:10PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments Video with Robert F. Kennedy Jr. on Vaccines, Mercury and Big Pharma Censorship (interviewed by Bill Maher): https://www.goodreads.com/videos/8350...

This video is a great summary of all the conflicts of interest surrounding vaccines and the scientists and politicians underreported ties to Big Pharma.


“I got dragged into the vaccine issue kicking and screaming because I was going around the country suing coal-burning power plants and talking about the dangers of mercury coming from those plants, and almost everywhere I stopped or I spoke there were women there—very eloquent, articulate, grounded people—who said, ‘You have to look at the biggest factor of mercury in American children now, and it’s vaccines, and we need you to look at the science. And I resisted for a long time but I started reading the science after a while ... I’ve brought hundreds and hundreds of successful lawsuits, and most of them have involved scientific controversies. I’m comfortable reading science and dissecting it, and discerning the difference between junk science and real science. When I started looking at it, what I saw was very alarming, which is we were giving huge amounts of mercury to our children. A lot of it has been taken out of vaccines, but there’s still an extraordinary amount in vaccines—in particular the flu vaccine.” –Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in April 2015 on Real Time with Bill Maher.


message 48: by James, Group Founder (last edited Aug 22, 2015 01:39AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7749 comments How come flu vaccinations are free in many countries for many citizens?

And how come governments AND Big Pharma seem so keen for everyone to get vaccinated for influenza?

Call me overly suspicious or paranoid, and I could well be in this instance, but I don't really get why they're pushing this flu vaccine so hard including a lot of paid advertising on TV, magazines etc...

I guess some of my suspicions in this area stem from a recent conversation I had with a friend who is a veteran GP doctor here in Australia. He's actually one of the most qualified doctors in this country, but I won't name him as he probably wouldn't want to be...Especially given he's already come under a lot of fire from his fellow doctors and the medical system here in OZ for merely voicing his concerns about the staggering amount of corruption Big Pharma interference creates in his profession.

Anyway, this doctor told me he strongly suspects there could be nefarious and undeclared motivations behind the promotion of some vaccines. For example, he mentioned that science seems to now be proving it's important for children to get certain sicknesses or viruses in their early years so they then have a lifetime protection against that illness. I believe he then specified measles (although it could have been mumps, I can't recall exactly but fairly sure it was measles) saying that there is a likelihood this virus will one day be completely eradicated or eliminated as incidents are decreasing rapidly. But he added that Big Pharma holds a patent on the synthetic equivalent of measles. So Big Pharma would have replaced the unpatentable virus from nature, thereby having a monopoly on it - which could be lucrative if children still need to have it in their system from an early age so it protects them for life.

Anyway, I have zero medical training/experience so I didn't understand fully what he was implying...For example, how measles are different from Polio (which was all but eradicated from the Earth) I have no idea...But clearly from this doctor's experience he strongly believes Big Pharma are not to be remotely trusted and could even be up to some very dark things which they are aware will cost untold lives to secure profits.

This doctor also mentioned that the British Medical Association has stated that only 50% of research on vaccinations is ever published or made available to doctors and the public. He added that "what happens to the other 50% of the research? and that "who the hell decides what research is kept and what researched is trashed?"

The flip side to all these suspicions, of course, is that there are also some serious risks in not taking vaccinations, whether you're an adult or child. But even for those who agree with the science behind vaccinations and think it's the best choice to make, something I think we all can agree on is there needs to be better checks and balances on Big Pharma and the medical establishment...Especially given this is one of the most lucrative industries on Earth.


message 49: by Laureen (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments Pure speculation but interesting. I contracted measles as a child when my brother and sister had the disease. I had all the symptoms but not the rash. I was told I was a carrier. After I became well again, I had my first ever asthma attack. My mum always blamed the fact that I didn't have a full dose if the measles.

Now my understanding of vaccines is that we are subjected to a small dose of the virus which builds an immunity towards the disease. Well, is it possible that this is the reason for the huge increase in asthma and other types of allergic responses that are prevalent today? I'd like to see some research done on this or an explanation that dismisses this speculation.

BTW, I think vaccines are a wonderful invention. We just need to examine the results in fine detail and report any ill effects so science can get it right.


message 50: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Martino | 49 comments With the recent talk of vaccinations highlighted during the Republican Presidential debates, it definitely highlights the concerns that linger among us parents about having our children vaccinated. I must preface this post by stating that I have 5 children and all were fully vaccinated. That said, I must admit that the vaccinations were spaced apart further than that which was recommended by the pediatrician.

The only reason my wife and I were adamant about altering the dosing regimen was that we routinely witnessed an alteration in our childrens’ mental status after they received a barrage of shots. I would like to say that flu-like symptoms or low-grade fevers precipitated the changes. However, there were no signs or symptoms of any physical reaction to the vaccines. What did change on occasion was their personalities, sleep habits and at times cognition. It was scary to witness, but we were relieved when it resolved. As we began to split up the vaccination shots for our younger children, these neurological sided effects abated.

The reason why I discuss my own experience is that the medical system ardently insists that autism is not related to vaccinations. However, a recent medical journal I read does raise the awareness about the possible neurological sequela that can occur after one of these shots. A July 1 article in Science Translational Medicine discussed the link between Pandemrix, a vaccine used during the H1N1 flu pandemic, and 1,300 reported new cases of narcolepsy which occurred after receiving the shot. The article described how antibodies that formed as a result of the vaccine crossed the blood-brain barrier and attacked the sleep regulation portion of the brain. As a result, these people were left with narcolepsy. The process is called molecular mimicry. It has already been documented as the cause of different neurological diseases that result from the body’s immunological response to certain cancers, infections or exposures.

If a vaccine can cause narcolepsy, it definitely calls into question whether vaccines could also initiate other neurological problems such as autism. Though the question remains, the overall benefit of vaccines to society as a whole does outweigh the risks. My only recommendation to the medical establishment is to reconsider both the dose of the vaccine and the timing they are given, to reduce any of these possible side effects.


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