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Current Events > What Year Are We In? 1984?

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message 1: by Sophia (new)

Sophia (pheephyphophum) | 176 comments Mod
Just read this article:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html...

Really disturbing but not at all surprising. What do you guys think about all of the surveillance out there?
-Cameras
-Wire Taps
-Cookies
-Facebook lol

Do you see it as a good thing or a bad thing and why? Personally, I can see that it does have it's advantages. They get a lot of bad people doing bad things on camera. The question is more so about weighing those advantages against the loss of freedoms...is it really worth it to you?

I say no it isn't. But maybe that's just me.


message 2: by Father (new)

Father | 43 comments Oh for fun...Big Brother. "I always feel like... somebody's watching me..." ;-}

All of the newest technology can help if they are used for purposes that are right and serve to protect the citizens of this country. That being said, I don't believe they always are being used as such.

Where I live, the City has installed cameras on intersection light poles. They are monitored by the police and are supposed to help in response time to traffic accidents as well as, I assume, to catch people running red lights. However, it recently came to my attention that these cameras are not all facing roads. One is aimed at my favorite coffee shop. Why, yeah it's no secret that a lot of troulemakers are in the area, but the police are always hanging out drinking coffee anyway. I knew, when they installed the cameras on the intersection where the bar I run is, that the cameras were covering the intersection AND who was coming and going from my bar as well as the bar across the street. How did I find out? Let's just say a little bird from the city told me. Don't get me wrong, I do not condone drinking and driving and sometimes I hope they get people who don't take me up on my offer of a cab, but not everyone drinks. We do have other things to do, like pool, live music, etc. Don't have to drink to enjoy those things. I was pulled over one night after work for a light out on my license plate. This was only a reason to pull me over. I knew the officer saw me leave the bar, he started following me a block away from where I was parked. Yeah, I smelled like alcohol, I had just been bathed in beer controling a mosh pit at a huge punk show. Anyway, he let me go but it still pissed me off. Felt a little like entrapment.

I really don't want to get into loss of freedoms. The Patriot Act infuriates me, even though it was supposedly made to protect us. As for surveilance and other measures, yes they are there to catch the bad guys, but how many good guys are wrongfully detained, arrested, etc. and how many bad guys get away? Is this justice? I think not. If these measures were used for their intended purposes the majority of good citizens need not worry. I, unfortunately, see this as the government and other entities trying to gain more control over it's people and/or assets.


message 3: by Tim (new)

Tim | 21 comments Absolutely it is a bad thing.

A climate of fear and oppression is all that it brings, not security nor safety.

Did we all live in terror before the vast and almost complete surveillance we are under in some cities..? Did we live afraid of "terrorists" all the time?

I believe we are being told we should be afraid. When we shouldnt. That fear enables the creation of a false sense of need for security. Its big business baby.

It is all about control.

A camera on every corner wont stop someone committing a crime. All it will do is enable police to be more likely to know who did it.

Honestly, i would feel safe if the government and police only did what they are supposed to do - one thing alone - ensured people have the right to freedom.

Note i said freedom. Not safety.

I have no fear of "terrorists", except the terrorism from the government.


message 4: by Sophia (new)

Sophia (pheephyphophum) | 176 comments Mod
But how?

I really feel that it's important that we pose some solutions. Perhaps their fear tactics not only allowed them to expand their power, but also hinder us from doing anything about it.

Ultimately, that's why my goal is to get out from under it all together. I'm most interested in finding ways to rescind being given privileges only to have them taken away. I used to think that I would like to get back to where we started...a republic, where the government is truly a product of the people and it's only function is to protect natural and common rights and laws. Now I believe that in doing so, even if that were achievable, we would only be resetting the cycle that got us here in the first place. Our blind, puppeteered capitalism and this weird sort of monarch democracy that we have going on are obviously the only outcomes of the past few hundred years, so where do we go from here if we go anywhere.

Didn't they say that the people should scrap the government if it gets out of control...well unfortunately, our government is like the Terminator or something....it became aware that it's creators could destroy it and it turned the tables and made it where it controlled it's creators so that it could eventually destroy them.


message 5: by Sophia (new)

Sophia (pheephyphophum) | 176 comments Mod
Wow, thanks for putting that into perspective Richard...as a black woman...uh yuh...I really wouldn't want things to be anything like they were 2-300 years ago, LOL....50 years ago, even.

But it's amazing how even then the principal was nice, but the application was extraordinarily biased and exclusive.

I really wish you could have been in on the discussion for the Freedom to Fascism movie. We kind of came to the conclusion that if you don't play the game you won't lose.

Why worry about choosing the lesser of two evils; or choosing the rock or the hard place; or the flying pan or the fire?

I'm more interested in learning how to get out of the race altogether and seeing how I can control my pony, you dig?


message 6: by Sophia (new)

Sophia (pheephyphophum) | 176 comments Mod
I guess that's the scariest part, too. That when the empire topples, it's the majority who weren't even exclusively benefiting from the overseers actions that get shat upon. I know this sounds weird, but I not only felt sorry for the Jews during the holocaust, but for the poor brainwashed Germans who actually believed in what they were doing and ultimately felt the backlash from their actions so profusely that I'll bet there are still issues, psychological or culturally that if they even attempted to address would just be taboo.

What I'm saying is, the little guy is always the loser...but yes, I do believe there are ways to just not play the game. Either become the big guy and make changes internally or get off the scale altogether....or move to another scale.

I actually like it here, for the most part, so I just feel that instead of getting frustrated with what I don't like, moving, or attempting to run for any sort of office, I would much rather learn as much as I can about the inner-workings of everything so I can take my little cog out and run it in a way that I see fit. There are definitely ways to do that. Patriot movements, Free Nationalists, Ex-patriots, Moorish and indigenous Societies...

That's what I'm looking into...


message 7: by Sophia (last edited Apr 01, 2008 05:06PM) (new)

Sophia (pheephyphophum) | 176 comments Mod
Precisely. So just looking at the root of the problem, the only real solution that I see if you intend to live here is disassociating. I took my LSATs and applied and got accepted to a few nice law schools a few months back all with the intention of doing what I had to in order to get "in", but luckily I thought about it and came to the same conclusion as you. I'm not rich and I don't "know people", lol, so even if I did get to a type of Ron Paul status, I'm sure I would have gotten ostracized and kicked to the curb as soon as I rubbed anyone the wrong way. I think that's why I like Obama so much. I said it before, but there's a quote I heard once that went something like: If you are a leader who makes subtle changes in the right direction the people will applaud you even if it seems that nothing's been accomplished right away, but if you make drastic changes, even if they are for the betterment of the society, then you will be considered a radical.

That is all too true.


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