Values vs comfort and price

[Nik]

Gotta ask you these philosophical questions :) Feel free to ignore or answer.

I guess it was very comfortable to own slaves and serfs and have them do all the work and chores. Yet, the humanity opted to waive this comfort (not without a fight) to the favor of dignity. Women and non-Whites were given equal rights on account of a white men’s world.
However, the modern world still confronts with similar dilemmas, which I would like to hear your opinion about:
How cool is to buy an iphone produced in a Chinese sweatshop with a high suicide rate or watch Mundial in Qatar, knowing that hundreds of construction workers died building the stadiums?
Should trillionairs and beggars coexist and applaud and embrace each other?
Should Biden shake MBS hand (believed by some intel community responsible for Khashoggi’s cruel death) in order to bring lower oil prices from Saudia, when visiting there next month?
Should Russian oil diluted by Ukrainian blood be a desired commodity in order to maintain an accustomed comfort and low gas prices?
You can add your dilemmas, of course..

[[deleted user]]

It’s an interesting question, Nik. To shop ethically, firstly you’ve got to be in a position to do so. Then it depends on how much information you’ve got and where you stand on the ‘ethical’ issue in question.

I’d imagine most group members are able to shop ethically for certain but not all things.

Personally, I would only ever buy free-range eggs. If I couldn’t get hold of them, I’d do without. I also endeavour to only buy toiletries that haven’t been tested on animals. And I would rather go veggie than eat meat from questionable sources. Better to have a smaller amount of more-expensive, ethically-farmed meat than a large amount of cheaper stuff that is produced cruelly. The only other example I can think of off the top of my head is that I’m currently boycotting Australian goods because of their response to covid :)

However, when it comes to oil, mobile phones and other things that I need to go about my business, there is no choice. You might not like how it’s made but it’s either difficult or impossible to shop elsewhere and/ or doing without would be damaging to my own wellbeing.

On the other points, I would never want to own a slave. It’s an appalling thought. What’s more, doing one’s own dirty work makes one appreciate leisure time all the more. And trillionaires vs beggars is an example of an economic system that isn’t working. It’s economically inefficient and morally wrong.

[Barbara]

It's true that it has become a necessity to have a cell phone and online access, especially during covid when a lot of people were forced to work remotely. As for cells, there has been a gradual removal of pay phones because they are costly to maintain and get little to no use because of cell phones.
But who is to blame for sweatshop labor? I mentioned on a similar topic that in the 80s there was a healthy manufacturing base in the US. Just about all kids clothes, shoes, most furniture, cars, tools, building supplies were made in the US. Then two things happened: 1. unionized workers began to demand more than just clean, safe working conditions and fair wages - they also wanted increased time off, paid benefits that included parental leave, health insurance, personal days which increased the cost of operation, and 2. Stricter environmental standards were put into place, which required a lot of retrofitting and maintenance that increased the cost of operation. Other countries did not have these cost burdens, and it became not just cheaper but less of a hassle to manufacture overseas.
Right now, in the southern part of my state, a major issue is developing over planting about a hundred windmills (wind turbines) in the ocean a few miles off the cost. Now, not only are windmills the least effective form of energy, they are built using those rare earth minerals that are mined by slave labor in Africa and Asia, they are a hazard to migrating animals, they are very susceptible to adverse weather conditions and they are virtually impossible to dispose of or recycle when they are retired. But they are all the rage with the "green energy" crowd.

[Scout]

The green energy crowd. They're who's driving Biden's shutting down U.S. oil and driving up prices for everything. And, as you point out, not all their ideas make sense. Electric cars use electricity that "about 60% in 2020 — comes from power plants that run on fossil fuels, including nearly 20% from plants that still burn coal, according to the Energy Information Administration. Another 20% is from nuclear plants, and a further 20% or so comes from renewables such as wind, solar and hydroelectric generation." https://www.cars.com/articles/are-ele...
So every time you charge your electric car, you're depending on 60% fossil fuels to do so. Biden's plan to make us buy electric cars still depends on fossil fuels. He doesn't tell you that. And who can afford to replace their car with an electric one? Only the wealthy. The rest of us continue to drive gas-powered cars and pay a premium for gas that was affordable last year when this country produced its own supply of gas. Where are we buying gas from now? And how is buying gas from other countries saving the planet? This makes no sense.

[J.]

Scout wrote: "The green energy crowd. They're who's driving Biden's shutting down U.S. oil and driving up prices for everything. And, as you point out, not all their ideas make sense. Electric cars use electrici..."

It's worse than that.

One of Uncle Joe's "solutions" for high gas prices was to increase the summer ethanol content. Each gallon of ethanol takes about 26 pounds of corn to produce. A million gallons of ethanol = over 26 million pounds of corn not available for food.

What is the next looming shortage?

[Scout]

Right.

[J.J.]

you know...a shortage of high fructose corn syrup might be a good thing...