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Blowing Up Russia: Terror from Within
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MYSTERIOUS DEATHS > Alexander Litvinenko -- the mysterious death of a Russian spy

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message 1: by Harry (new)

Harry Whitewolf | 1745 comments The inquiry into the killing of the Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko, by polonium, is underway, and has brought the whole murky topic back into the mainstream press.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015...

Ben Emerson QC has suggested Litvinenko may have been murdered for exposing links between Putin and Russia’s biggest organised crime syndicate, which is active in Spain. Emmerson further alleged that under Putin Russia had become “a mafia state”.

And whilst I'm on the subject of Russia, it's pretty damn bizarre that two fighter jets encroached on U.K airspace on Wednesday, especially as it's now been revealed that one of the jets was carrying a nuclear capable missile.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/11763...


message 2: by Harry (new)

Harry Whitewolf | 1745 comments By the way, shouldn't Putin's first name be Ras?


message 3: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments You're entering Boney M territory there


message 4: by Harry (new)

Harry Whitewolf | 1745 comments So, it seems Putin was 'probably' responsible for Litvinenko's death.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/...


message 5: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Harry wrote: "So, it seems Putin was 'probably' responsible for Litvinenko's death.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/..."


I noticed that in the news...And the first thing that came to my mind was: Could this be related to Putin saying he'll blow the lid off the official 9/11 story later this year?


message 6: by Kirsten (new)

Kirsten  (kmcripn) Harry wrote: "So, it seems Putin was 'probably' responsible for Litvinenko's death.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/..."


Ya think?


message 7: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno We would probably remain with this 'probability' rather than certainty for a long time. To investigate further it's necessary to question main suspects: Lugovoy, Kovtun, Patrushev & Putin, but it's not likely to happen, since Russia is not gonna cooperate with this investigation. However the findings are grave enough. The judge states that Lugovoy & Kovtun had NO personal motive to kill Litvinenko and it's clear they acted on orders - with high probability from FSB (KGB's successor). Let's see what happens (probably nothing), if at all, as Lugovoy is a member of Duma (Russian Parliament).
This story is similar to Gongadze's - an independent journalist, murdered by a special unit of Ukrainian police.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgiy...
In his case, there are tapes, recorded secretly by one of the bodyguards of the Ukrainian ex-president Leonid Kuchma, where then president allegedly discusses with his chief of staff the necessity to 'silence' Gongadze. The police officers were convicted, however the investigation of involvement of the ex-president and his chief-of-staff were never fully completed..

On a more general scale, the immunity from criminal investigation given to Parliament members in Russia and Ukraine, prompted a lot of people (few dozens) to enter the supreme legislation bodies, suspected or rumoured of committing serious felonies, including murder and heading or belonging to organized crime. Grotesquely as it may sound, some legislation bodies may host more suspected murderers than some large correctional facilities -:)


message 8: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2824 comments Nik wrote: "We would probably remain with this 'probability' rather than certainty for a long time. To investigate further it's necessary to question main suspects: Lugovoy, Kovtun, Patrushev & Putin, but it's..."

Thanks Nik. As a Russian-born lawyer I sense you have a better understanding of these issues than most. Your last comment (regarding legislation bodies) is especially sobering.


message 9: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno Lance Morcan wrote: "Nik wrote: "We would probably remain with this 'probability' rather than certainty for a long time. To investigate further it's necessary to question main suspects: Lugovoy, Kovtun, Patrushev & Put..."

What can I tell, I wish I was exaggerating...
The immunity from criminal prosecution, given to MPs, became a strong motivation for those afraid of possible prosecution, whether for something they did or used as the means of pressure on the part of the authorities, to seek such a coveted asylum. If low -key gangsters lay low somewhere, major 'sharks' secured and many bought places on parties lists, ensuring parliament mandates at least in some former USSR countries. Now, the immunity serves both ways - protecting the criminals and protecting the opposition from 'selective justice' implemented by the authorities towards those they dislike.

Out of corporate solidarity the procedures of waiving the immunity by the parliament are rarely implemented there.

The same immunity is frequently used to prevent police from entering certain premises or arresting someone. Almost any corporate conflict, which should normally be a civil matter, involves MPs on the one part and police on the other.

Several years ago in Ukraine, where media is much less centralized and censored than in Russia, there was an analysis of how many suspected and known mobsters were in the then current Ukrainian parliament and, if I remember correctly, there were a few dozens out of 450 members. But then again, Ukraine might be the only country in the world, which ex-president served two terms in jail for violent crimes and whose biography had nothing similar to that of Nelson Mandela and other leaders, who did time in jail for their political struggle....


message 10: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Sounds almost as corrupt as the West, Nik ;)


message 11: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno James Morcan wrote: "Sounds almost as corrupt as the West, Nik ;)"

Nah, they are rookies in the East. Crude and sometimes savage -:)
In the West the corruption is much more subtle. Lobbying, for example, sounds pristine as opposed to bribery -:)


message 12: by James, Group Founder (last edited Jan 24, 2016 02:05AM) (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Nik wrote: "Nah, they are rookies in the East. Crude and sometimes savage -:)
In the West the corruption is much more subtle. Lobbying, for example, sounds pristine as opposed to bribery -:) ..."


I think our leaders in the West learnt from the mistakes of Nazi Germany and the likes of Stalin, and rebranded the same or similar types of corruptions, controls and aggressions in a much more subtle manner...so it's now barely detectable.

Anyway, I'm rudely going off on a tangent here. Back to the actual thread. What you say about the Ukrainian ex-President being recorded as saying they need to "silence" Gongadze sure sounds like strong evidence to me!


message 13: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno James Morcan wrote: "Nik wrote: "Nah, they are rookies in the East. Crude and sometimes savage -:)
In the West the corruption is much more subtle. Lobbying, for example, sounds pristine as opposed to bribery -:) ..."

..."


It's a very strong evidence indeed. But if you are a president or even an ex-president you can sometimes 'silence' investigators, prosecutors, etc.
That evidence was ruled inadmissible, as the bodyguard was taping the president illicitly and unlawfully (according to the Ukrainian courts). Even at that, there is enough other evidence implicating ex-president (testimony of the police ex-general, convicted for murder, for example), but investigations/ indictment were quelled several times, so it doesn't look like it's ever gonna happen...
The former minister of internal affairs in charge of police, who was supposed to be questioned about Gongadze case and whom the police general accused in giving the direct order, was found dead with TWO shot wounds to the head the day he was supposed to testify and his death was declared... suicide. It's a bit hard to believe that someone would be able to shot himself twice to the head....


message 14: by James, Group Founder (last edited Jan 24, 2016 03:03AM) (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Nik wrote: "It's a bit hard to believe that someone would be able to shot himself twice to the head.... ..."

Ha. Very true.

Coming back to Russia, do you feel Putin will ever be somehow be removed? How big is his opposition?

Also, will you Nik Krasno ever write a non-fiction book on everything you know and have experienced in the USSR and modern Russia/Ukraine?


message 15: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno James Morcan wrote: "Coming back to Russia, do you feel Putin will ever be somehow be remove..."

Published polls show Putin's popularity in Russia around 90%! Let's assume that some of these data may be fake. Still around 70-75% should be real. There is almost no free media; the opposition is scattered, intimidated and some killed (Boris Nemtsov is the last example from 2015). So, it looks like Putin's grip is very firm.
On the other hand, oil prices is the most important factor for Russia's entire state budget. With the oil prices so low, economists evaluate that Russia won't be able to finance herself for too long. Rouble has significantly depreciated, prices went up and the level of living in Russia became much worse than a couple of years ago. For some years the current Russian regime's main achievement was stability and relative well-being. The deeper it erodes, the more people may become dissatisfied. The conquest of Crimea boosted Putin's popularity. Russia's active involvement in global conflicts like in Syria is to a certain degree aimed at internal consumption - to feed some national pride and emperialistic ideology... So all in all, at the moment Putin's hold over Russia seems very strong, but the current dynamics for him are negative. The question is how long they would last.

As of writing a non-fiction book... well, it's tempting, because what I found out after finishing writing the first book, is that writing is ... addictive -:) I'm practically finished with my fictional Oligarch trilogy for the time being. Maybe I can try something non-fiction, indeed, if you estimate there is a readership for it.


message 16: by James, Group Founder (last edited Jan 24, 2016 09:13AM) (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Nik wrote: "As of writing a non-fiction book... well, it's tempting, because what I found out after finishing writing the first book, is that writing is ... addictive -:) I'm practically finished with my fictional Oligarch trilogy for the time being. Maybe I can try something non-fiction, indeed, if you estimate there is a readership for it. ..."

I wouldn't want to guess whether there'd be a readership or not but I'm sure if you find the right topic to write about within the vastness of subjects like the end of the USSR or modern Russia/East EU, there's bound to be a non-fiction title that'd appeal.

All I know is I tried to put serious ideas and little known facts into thriller novels and nobody really paid much attention as at the end of the day readers just think "well these are interesting concepts, but still this is a novel and it's all fiction."
But as soon as I put them into non-fiction books people started debating the ideas more seriously and what I term "underground knowledge" started to spread a bit.
It seems obvious that given you grew up in the USSR and have direct experience, not to mention lengthy research into all this, as well having practiced as a lawyer in the region and no doubt witnessed much, you could do a much better analysis of subjects like Putin and Russia's modern military etc than most journalists out there (some of whom do quite shoddy research as you know!).

So maybe it's worth considering, mate.
Especially as Russia is suddenly headline news again after being forgotten or ignored (at least in the West) for decades.
Maybe what could be popular is a book talking about the re-emergence of Russia on the world stage and the apparent/supposed new Cold War that some journalists (perhaps of the more sensationalist angle) believe is now beginning.

What about a book called 'The Cold War 2.0 - Is it possible?' which contains a detailed historical perspective of the region (to give readers who are not familiar with Russia's evolution the full backstory) and then cover the events you know including the wealthy elite families of the region you refer to in your Oligarch Trilogy of novels, and then finally end with your prediction as to Russia is really a legitimate threat and can re-emerge as a superpower ala the Soviet era, or whether this is Russia's last hurah before it drifts into Third World status...

Something along these lines should sell I would assume. At least you could count on me as a reader/buyer of that book!


message 17: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno James Morcan wrote: "What about a book called 'The Cold War 2.0 - Is it possible?' which contains a detailed historical perspective of the region (to give readers who are not familiar with Russia's evolution the full backstory) and then cover the events you know including the wealthy elite families of the region you refer to in your Oligarch Trilogy of novels, and then finally end with your prediction as to Russia is really a legitimate threat and can re-emerge as a superpower ala the Soviet era, or whether this is Russia's last hurah before it drifts into Third World status..."

Hey James, that's a very helpful post. Your story of evolving from fiction to non-fiction is encouraging, although I do hope your fictional work is also thought-provoking and generally successful.
Thanks for suggesting the prospective title, content and outline even. I have to admit - all sound good. And having at least one prospective reader gives me some additional motivation. As soon as the third book is released, I'll consider further writing directions


message 18: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2824 comments Nik wrote: "James Morcan wrote: "What about a book called 'The Cold War 2.0 - Is it possible?' which contains a detailed historical perspective of the region (to give readers who are not familiar with Russia's..."

Make that at least two prospective readers, Nik.


message 19: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno Thanks, Lance.
Your interest, guys, is truly inspiring!


message 20: by John (new)

John Banks | 224 comments James Morcan wrote: "Nik wrote: "As of writing a non-fiction book... well, it's tempting, because what I found out after finishing writing the first book, is that writing is ... addictive -:) I'm practically finished w..."

This is interesting!!

http://off-guardian.org/2016/01/25/vi...

Good watching for 24+/- minutes!!!


message 21: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Thanks John!


message 22: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno John wrote: "James Morcan wrote: "Nik wrote: "As of writing a non-fiction book... well, it's tempting, because what I found out after finishing writing the first book, is that writing is ... addictive -:) I'm p..."

Hi John, good watching indeed and not that long. Thanks! Raises some good questions about the culpability of Lugovoy. Not all of them are equally persuasive in my opinion, but surely can cast some doubt, especially in Russian speaking community, who perceive Livanov (the presentor) as Sherlock Holmes for his brilliant acting in Russian version of Sherlock Holmes' adventures. Clever setting.

Without the possibility to question the suspects, these and other questions may remain unanswered... Any ex-parte conclusion is naturally more questionable than the one, where a suspect can defend himself.

Regarding some points in the article:
Lie detectors are widely used by police and law enforcement authorities as forensic tool, but due to some almost 100 year old precedent in most countries its results are inadmissable or not considered evidence in criminal proceedings. If you think about it, those who like consiracy theories, might suspect judges' conspiracy regarding polygraph, because if polygraph decides who's guilty and who's innocent, who lies and who says the truth, then who would need judges, juries, lawyers? -:)
I don't know whether it's true or just a myth, but I remember in Russian movies spy training included training to come out clean from polygraph tests. Could Lugovoy as former FSB, GRU have undergone such a training?

The 2-nd argument about relatively easy accessibility to polonium undermines Masha Gessen's accusation of FSB and Putin, as those who needed to authorize passing of polonium to Lugovoy, if Gessen indeed claims that Russia could have been the only source and FSB was responsible, but I'm not sure the British former judge in his own conclusion, based himself on the same assumptions.


message 23: by John (new)

John Banks | 224 comments Nik wrote: "John wrote: "James Morcan wrote: "Nik wrote: "As of writing a non-fiction book... well, it's tempting, because what I found out after finishing writing the first book, is that writing is ... addict..."
Good points Nik,
Many years ago I worked for a "funny firm", yes re polygraph tests, even if you asked me my name and date of birth and I answered truthfully it would show up as a deception.

Polonium 210 is accessible within certain area's, what I dont understand is why didn't they use ricin as they did on Markov on London bridge!

But I think you have to agree, no matter what goes wrong in the world, PUTIN DID IT!! its getting old hat now!
Lets face it, the CIA/MI6/MOSSAD are not that clean!


message 24: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno Well, that Putin is blamed for everything that goes wrong in the world, I think is a bit of an overstatement, but I do believe he's probably attributed more than he's really responsible for...
Vladimir is the most active global player nowadays, I think, so a lot of negativity about him is not surprising and I'm sure his western competitors contribute to his demonization.
As of his involvement in Litvinenko's case, we probably wouldn't know anything certain any time soon.

As I understand Litvinenko was considered a traitor by FSB and therefore was probably a 'legit' target in their eyes with or without Putin. Recently I read a book 'A Rose for Sergei' by K. Kidd - a true story, where she describes dating KGB defector, who escaped to Canada and from there to the States. I don't want to give spoilers, but he was certain KGB would come for him. I wonder whether Snowden is considered a 'target' by CIA. And if yes, for apprehension or for a hit?

And sure, I believe, western agencies perform liquidations. Hopefully, of those who deserve them.


message 25: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2824 comments Nik wrote: "Well, that Putin is blamed for everything that goes wrong in the world, I think is a bit of an overstatement, but I do believe he's probably attributed more than he's really responsible for...
Vlad..."


"And sure, I believe, western agencies perform liquidations. Hopefully, of those who deserve them." -- Regarding that last statement Nik - I do wonder who actually gets to decide who is deserving (of liquidation) and what's the criteria for a thumbs-down verdict. Tis a very fine line I suspect...and oh so open to corruption.


message 26: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno In some cases there might be a fine line indeed and in such circumstances a restraint is probably better. Moreover, sometimes 'mistakes' happen. Corruption probably happens.
If I was to define who 'deserves', I would probably define them as those who have clear and indisputable evidence about them being involved in extremely dangerous activity aimed at deprivation of human life or accountable for committed murder, attempted murder and crimes of similar gravity and who's apprehension and bringing to justice is impossible without clear peril to those involved. I know it's an equivocal point, but I do believe special agencies are obliged even to act against such persons and organizations. I believe in a proactive approach, but on the other hand I also believe in accountability: you cross the fine line your bear responsibility...


message 27: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Nik, I really gotta admire your faith in Western agencies usually doing the right thing or working toward some greater good. You're taking positive thinking to a whole new level!!!! :)


message 28: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno Probably-:)
Maybe it's very naive of me, but I do hope they are a little more busy protecting my butt than enjoying eavesdropping on my private conversations, intercepting my mails, raising new terrorists or instigating wars to please some perverted private interests -:)
I may be wrong


message 29: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments "Perverted private interests" = that is all you need to know about the intel agencies of virtually any major nations in my opinion. But again, I admire your level of trust in the "elitists", Nik. :)


message 30: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno We kinda feel the results of the work of our agencies on the ground, as 'reported by foreign media'. I can understand those though, who live in a relative calm and ask what the hell are our forces doing thousands miles away from their country?
I don't trust elitists at all, nor I like or support them or their manipulations. However I do believe that youngsters striving to join agencies do that for the declared purposes rather than for some hidden agenda. May they be manipulated, corrupted, brainwashed during their service? Probably. Yet I hope most of them pursue a valid agenda while serving.
And it's very different by the way from former USSR countries for example, where many of the new recruits come in scores to police academies with the clear intent to live off of bribes and protection, because their salaries are laughable


message 31: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Agreed Nik - most employees in any organisation are good, honest, hard-working people who only want to serve. I've always said that.
However, it only takes a few bad eggs at the very top of any political administration or intel agency to undo the good work of the majority of its employees...


message 32: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno I thought only Russians were born anti-institutional -:)


message 33: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments I'm a Russky from way back, mate.
A Down Under Russky!


message 34: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno Now I see, it's the pedigree -:) Otlichno, droog, welcome. Russkiye ne sdayutsa -:)


message 35: by John (new)

John Banks | 224 comments Good debate gentlemen!
What little I know about it, I can state that YES Western Intel Agencies certainly do, "removals, arrange accidents, snatch and move, medical mistakes" and so on!
But not only Western Agencies, every agency worldwide has the capability and in fact uses either deniable contractors or "in house" people.
It has been that way for the history of Intelligence Agencies.

Are they careful about justification, mostly, depending on the situation. Do they make mistakes? YES!!
We have seen the CIA/MI6/MOSSAD and the old KGB make mistakes with the "targets", we will see it again.
We can look back at Patrice Lumumba, Yasser Arafat, attempts on Castro, the death squads in Latin America, Operation Phoenix in Nam, and many many more.

Lets look at what some friends and I call the "Swingers, Jumpers and Shooters",
http://wikibin.org/articles/2014-bank...
I think the end total was somewhere around 60+/-.
Then we here that "OOOPS' big money, in the $Trillions has gone missing!
That "drug money" is running through major banking systems, that "payoffs" have been happening and a bigger "OOOPS" money is being channeled to terrorist groups.
So did all these bankers catch a viral suicide bug and all jump, swing and shoot as part of the side effects??
Lets not forget one shot his dog, two teenage kids and then himself, and he was described as a loving, kind, devoted father!

There you go gentlemen, let your minds run riot!!


message 36: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Thanks John - and I know that's just the tip of the iceberg...as you have experienced directly in these agencies!!
The intel agencies are one of the biggest blocks to world peace right now.


message 37: by John (new)

John Banks | 224 comments James Morcan wrote: "Thanks John - and I know that's just the tip of the iceberg...as you have experienced directly in these agencies!!
The intel agencies are one of the biggest blocks to world peace right now."


Intel Agencies have become, "self serving" now, practically unlimited budgets, almost "free reign".
The so called, "War on Terror", has become a massive money machine. Europe now is on constant terror alert, France/Italy/Germany/UK/Spain all went through this in the sixties, bombs and shooting on a regular basis. There was not the massive Intel involvement and yet now surveillance is more sophisticated and almost "warrantless".
The US has 2,300+/- sub contract companies in intel gathering,
the UK has its fair share as well.
Every day we hear "yet another attack foiled", every day the "threat level" goes up.
ISIS claims every incident that happens around the world, every nut that does something claims he/she is ISIS.
Despite the FBI denying that the San Bernardino attack was terror related, its still described as that.

Work it out, WHO IS WINNING??? All that is needed to prevent a football match, a concert or any big crowd pulling event is a THREAT from whatever source.
So who is the winner???


message 38: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments The Military Industrial Complex, and the associated private contract companies (e.g. Halliburton), are the only winners as far as I can tell. Trillions per year for them, while millions die from our drones etc in places like Iraq and Afghanistan as a result of this phony "war on terror" which is no war at all obviously...


message 39: by John (new)

John Banks | 224 comments James Morcan wrote: "The Military Industrial Complex, and the associated private contract companies (e.g. Halliburton), are the only winners as far as I can tell. Trillions per year for them, while millions die from ou..."

100% correct my friend!!
That's why they keep it running!!


message 40: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Another thing I wanted to bring up is I think the West and it's associated intel agencies forced Russia to lose more breakaway states at the fall of the Soviet Union than it deserved to in order to weaken Russia long term. Former Russian residents at the time (not all of them Russians) have told me America completely f#€<%^ Russia in the early 90s to ensure it could never become a superpower again.

I mean, at the end of communism you'd expect big countries like the Ukraine to break free. However there are a lot of minor countries that I suspect wouldn't have achieved independence without secret financing from the West. Perhaps smaller (mineral rich) nations like Chechnya, Georgia or Kryzygstan, for example?

However I must declare it's not something I've studied much so I'd like some feedback.


message 41: by John (new)

John Banks | 224 comments James Morcan wrote: "Another thing I wanted to bring up is I think the West and it's associated intel agencies forced Russia to lose more breakaway states at the fall of the Soviet Union than it deserved to in order to..."

Again very correct, I will send something via email my time tonight!


message 42: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Well the West has benefitted enormously from oil rich countries like Georgia or oil/mineral rich countries like Khazakstan no longer being part of Russia, so it wouldn't surprise me.

I don't know much about Chechnya or that area of the Ukraine that is a disputed territory. It's hard to get accurate info as all Western media always portrays Russia as being the bad guys in every instance...And then conversely Russia's media is state-controlled as far as I can tell and seems to release propaganda.


message 43: by John (new)

John Banks | 224 comments Try "RT" although you probably have,
I find it does attempt the truth.
Good program's between the news!


message 44: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Yep, RT is a very good network actually. Sean Stone does a great job hosting the Watching the Hawks show and a lot of Americans and global viewers tune in. It's ironic that to find out the truth about the dirty tactics of our own nations, we have to rely on a Russian TV channel!


message 45: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Is Litvinenko to Russia the equivalent of what Snowden is to America?
Was he about to expose something that would've embarrassed Putin or other Russian leaders?
Also, are there any theories to say MI6 or the CIA could have killed him? Would they have any motive to do so, or is the consensus that the assassin would be Russian?


message 46: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno John wrote: "Lets look at what some friends and I call the "Swingers, Jumpers and Shooters",
http://wikibin.org/articles/2014-bank...
I think the end total was somewhere around 60+/-."


that's some major thing, if indeed around 60 top bankers allegedly committed suicide within a limited time spell....


message 47: by John (new)

John Banks | 224 comments Nik wrote: "John wrote: "Lets look at what some friends and I call the "Swingers, Jumpers and Shooters",
http://wikibin.org/articles/2014-bank...
I think the end total was somewhere around 60+/-."

that's some..."


Very true Nik, I guess there must have been a pretty drastic virus that affected their mental stability and caused them all to commit suicide, mainly, HSBC/J P Morgan/Goldman Sachs! I think there was one B of A as well.
The actual eventual toll was OVER 60!


message 48: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno James Morcan wrote: "The Military Industrial Complex, and the associated private contract companies (e.g. Halliburton), are the only winners as far as I can tell. Trillions per year for them, while millions die from ou..."

I don't know, guys, it looks like you try to portray such a complex issue in a simplistic manner. The terror is very real, the terrorists are real and their innocent victims too. It's not something ephemeral. Are the agencies the major factor for existence of terror and one of the main obstacles for peace? Doesn't look this way to me, but who am I to know -:). How does it work then? The shareholders of major corporations through top agencies' officials arrange all kind of artificial conflagrations? Could be, as most monstrous ideas sometime come out real, but hardly on a global, day-to-day scale, in my opinion.... What stops them from more active engagement of N. Korea, Iran, Venezuela then?
On the other hand, the super-powers do have global agenda far beyond their own boundaries and the struggle for dominance seems to exist.


message 49: by James, Group Founder (last edited Jan 27, 2016 05:59AM) (new)

James Morcan | 11246 comments Nik wrote: " The terror is very real, the terrorists are real and their innocent victims too. It's not something ephemeral...."

Absolutely. The terror is extremely real, Nik. But it's a more widespread terrorism than we are informed of - it's a terrorism that has no religion or nationality on it as is implied (and I think that's where the simplicity comes in as our Western media implies it's a one-way street and we are the victims under attack). I mean, can you imagine the "terror" you or I would feel if all those bombs from US drones were attacking our neighborhoods? Or if we were a doctor or nurse in a hospital where all the patients, hundreds of them, have all been killed because of one suspected/rumored terrorist. Unfortunately, such incidents have been extremely common and almost daily when it comes to the "war on terror" (which I write in quotes as it's a meaningless term).

As Ben Affleck said upon the release of his Iran-based movie Argo: "We have killed a hell of a lot more of them than they have killed of us". Or as US comedian George Carlin said of the War on Terror: "Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity".

The lines get blurred between terms like terrorist, freedom fighter and liberators the more you research this subject, I find.

But none of that is to ignore the Islamic form of terrorism. It's just we need to accept that's merely one kind of group using terror and killing innocent victims by the truckload.


message 50: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno James Morcan wrote: "Another thing I wanted to bring up is I think the West and it's associated intel agencies forced Russia to lose more breakaway states at the fall of the Soviet Union than it deserved to in order to..."

Sure, the Big Bang of the USSR can be a result of a Western agencies efforts. The entire 'glasnost' and 'perestroika' policies could have been devised when Gorbachev as one of the politburo members stop by unannouced at Downing 10 and had a many hours chat with Margaret, few years before he headed USSR. Capitalists could have tricked Communist simpletons -:)

There weren't that much of an independence movements at these times. Admittedly, there were, but not that significant. The Baltic countries (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia) were allowed to leave a bit earlier. And then after the attempted and failed coup of hardliners, 12 heads of 12 republics meet and decide to break up the Union.... Later in 1991 referendums were held in the republics and came out with high figures, supporting independence... For all I know, some of the referendum results are missing nowadays. Of course, there are a lot of question marks over the entire break-up event. I mean Russia and Ukraine were united for over 300 years and Ukraine never existed as an independent state and not in the current borders. Russia and Georgia were 200 years together... If you look at the USSR former leaders, then most years they weren't even from Russia - with Stalin coming from Georgia and Khrushyov and Brezhnev from Ukraine, so I'm not sure it could be claimed that Russians were oppresive towards minorities. And then 12 communist leaders meet, discuss and decide that enough was enough... Many in the West might've been very pleased with the outcome. Could be a much more significant achievement for them than alleged assassination of Rasputin by British intelligence during WW1, for example. Ironically, Russia ended up with Kalinigrad (former German Kenigsberg), probably because there were no Germans at all for a referendum and fraternal countries like Ukraine or Georgia parted ways... I bet a lot in Russia question the legitimacy of 1991 events. On the other hand, even very equivocal nature of what had happened doesn't justify aggression and forceful conquest on Russia's part, in my opinion...


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