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Question of the Week > Was Christ capable of sinning?

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message 1: by Michael (new)

Michael Corleone (michaelc1) Did Jesus have the ability to sin? If He did, does that mean he had original sin and participated in a fallen nature? But if He didn't have the ability to sin, was his temptation just a charade? In other words, was he really not subjected to real temptation?


message 2: by Erick (last edited Feb 02, 2015 01:36PM) (new)

Erick (panoramicromantic) | 21 comments That's a great question and one I have often pondered myself. I have been of the opinion that the virgin birth must have had something to do with fallen nature, or was actually a response to fallen nature. It seems that part of the curse that was laid on man in the garden (due to his fallenness) was passed down through male seed. Christ was not born of male seed, so there must have been some effect of fallenness that was not a part of Him. But it seems logical that, at least in theory, He had the ability to sin, due to the simple fact that He had freewill. It should also be stressed that there's a difference between corrupt nature and freewill. Strict Calvinists have made freewill synonymous with corruption but they are in fact different; although, one necessitates the other. Jesus had freewill. He said Himself that He laid down His life freely. He also surrendered His will in the garden of Gethsemane. He had the full ability to make different choices. Just as Adam had freewill and misused it, Jesus had freewill and used it righteously. He could not be the second Adam if He did not have that ability.
The difference between His nature and ours may be down to the fact that due to the curse of Adam, our choices are not totally free (I don't support absolute bondage of the will, but I do support a severely impaired will); we have a tendency to want to do what's wrong when choices between doing what's right and wrong present themselves; at least in particular situations. Jesus may not have suffered from this aspect of the Adamic curse. Meaning, He may have been truly free to make choices without the overwhelming tendency to want to do what's wrong impairing His choice. The temptations took the form of subtle deceptions, e.g. to preserve His human body, to use His power when not appropriate, etc. This isn't to say that no aspect of fallenness affected Him, for Him to save us, there must have been enough of an analogue between Him and us that allowed salvation in Him for us.


message 3: by Erick (last edited Feb 02, 2015 12:30PM) (new)

Erick (panoramicromantic) | 21 comments It might help to make my point more valid if I provide the Genesis verses.

The following verses I believe refer to the curse of the male seed in allegorical fashion:

Genesis 3:17-18
And to the man he said,
“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
and have eaten of the tree
about which I commanded you,
‘You shall not eat of it,’
cursed is the ground because of you;
in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.

And the following is both a reference to the curse of the woman and the serpent but also a veiled reference to the virgin birth. It should be obvious that women do not have seed and that is the original word in Hebrew, not offspring; so this verse seems to indicate the virgin birth of Christ. It has been traditionally seen as being messianic:

Genesis 3:15
"I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will strike your head,
and you will strike his heel.”


message 4: by Bob (new)

Bob Stewart | 14 comments Did Jesus have the ability to sin? If He did, does that mean he had original sin and participated in a fallen nature? But if He didn't have the ability to sin, was his temptation just a charade? In other words, was he really not subjected to real temptation?

Did someone excise the last part of Romans Chapter Five? Please note that Adam was created without sin. Those after him had the sin nature. Thus the 2nd Adam, Christ Jesus would likewise have the ability to sin, but not the sin nature. Even as Adam without the sin nature was capable of sin and after being tempted did in fact sin; Christ was capable of sin.
His greatest temptation to sin was in the garden where He prayed to not have to drink from the cup that was set before Him. Then He said something very strange; ‘Not My will but Thy will be done’ How can the triune God have different wills? One overriding the other in that to obey one will, the will Christ expressed as being His, would be sin while obedience to the other, expressed here as the Father’s will (indirectly) would be actual obedience.
But in answer to the question He was capable of sin without having the sin nature just as Adam was capable of sin before there was a sin nature. Thus Jesus did not have the sin nature during His temptation but had the ability to sin.
Our nature to sin and sin itself are two different concepts. One is the tendency to disobey and the other is to disobey. The nature is such that the will of the individual is obedient to that nature thus we sin from the womb speaking lies and follow that sinful nature straight into the pit of hell as fast as our dead spiritual legs will allow. The only cure for this behavior is to get a different nature forced down our closed spiritual throats totally against our will since our will is enslaved to the sin nature.
I think Paul says it better:
Rom 5:12 Because of this, even as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death passed to all men, inasmuch as all sinned.
Rom 5:13 For sin was in the world until Law, but sin is not charged where there is no law;
Rom 5:14 but death reigned from Adam until Moses, even on those who had not sinned in the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a type of the coming One.
Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not also like the deviation. For if by the deviation of the one the many died, much more the grace of God, and the gift in grace, which is of the one Man, Jesus Christ, did abound to the many.
Rom 5:16 And the gift is not as by one having sinned; for indeed the judgment was of one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many deviations to justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by the deviation of the one death reigned through the one, much more those who are receiving the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall rule in life by the One, Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18 So then, as through one deviation it was toward all men to condemnation, so also through one righteous act toward all men to justification of life.
Rom 5:19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were constituted sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many shall be constituted righteous.
Rom 5:20 But Law came in besides, that the deviation might abound. But where sin abounded, grace much more abounded,
Rom 5:21 that as sin ruled in death, so also grace might rule through righteousness to everlasting life, through Jesus Christ our Lord.


message 5: by Nicholas (new)

Nicholas (authormaze) | 25 comments I would say yes. Although, He never sinned, I believe he was capable of doing so. Jesus lived in the flesh, just like a man. It makes you wonder, why would the devil tempt Jesus, if it was not possible? Although Jesus was capable, it was GOD in the flesh. This means that His Soul and Spirit could never sin, but His flesh could. My opinion.


message 6: by Bob (new)

Bob Stewart | 14 comments Nicholas wrote: "I would say yes. Although, He never sinned, I believe he was capable of doing so. Jesus lived in the flesh, just like a man. It makes you wonder, why would the devil tempt Jesus, if it was not poss..."

You don't mind if I am somewhat confused? How can one sin in the flesh and not in the 'spirit' or 'soul'? My ex-wife slept with other men did she only sin in the flesh? Since our son cannot remember the number of different places he stayed while she was involved with different men it would be almost safe to presume that her 'spirit' and 'soul' were not involved she was simply having fun. I mean it would be difficult for someone to have any sort of relationship when having multiple one night stands. How do you distinguish the actions of one while not involving any of the others. I feel you have needlessly complicated the issue. Was Jesus capable of sin? Yes, but because He did not have the sin nature He was not enslaved to sin. So He was tempted even as we are but without sin. He could look on the beauty of a woman and not think about having sex with her because He did not have the sin nature and though tempted did not succumb to the temptation. We on the other hand are born in our sin come forth from the womb speaking lies.


message 7: by Nicholas (new)

Nicholas (authormaze) | 25 comments Yes, it possible a spirit of the devil to enter the body, but it starts from the flesh. That's why people say as long as live in flesh you will have to battle sin. Your flesh craves sin not your spirit or soul. That can only happen with the spirit of the devil, not your own. Your spirit wouldn't fight its self.


message 8: by Nicholas (new)

Nicholas (authormaze) | 25 comments That's a mistake that people make, we are not born into sin. That would say that an infant go to hell if it died. Understand that a baby is born into flesh, which causes us to sin and a baby cannot sin, if doesn't have knowledge of sin. So, where does the act begin. A baby can be born into a world of sin, but not be a sinner.


message 9: by Nicholas (new)

Nicholas (authormaze) | 25 comments Sin nature and flesh are the same, just different wording. The nature of sin stems from the flesh. We're taught this in the beginning.


message 10: by Bob (last edited Feb 09, 2015 01:17PM) (new)

Bob Stewart | 14 comments Go back and read what Paul said and I quoted. Through Adam all have sinned. In Psalms David tells us that the wicked come forth from the womb speaking lies and we are ALL WICKED none are righteous no not one, If we are not sinful from birth how is it that God hated Esau before he was born unless we are in fact sinful from birth. By our very nature we, even the youngest, are sinful we are all lost.
If in fact the unborn child gets an automatic pass into heaven then why fight abortion? Because only God knows whose names are written down in the Lamb's book of life.
My nature is not my flesh for if I look upon a woman with lust in my heart I have sinned. At least that is what Jesus said. Sin is not what we wear or what we eat but the things that we do, think and say. My sin nature was inherited from Adam and as stated is sinful. My flesh is simply part of who I am. Although Paul does separate the spirit from the flesh in some of his letters we must also remember that Jesus came in the flesh.


message 11: by Nicholas (new)

Nicholas (authormaze) | 25 comments GOD knew Esau and what he would become. A newborn baby can't talk, so at what point does it start lying? Please understand that they used wording very different than how we use it in American English. When it says we are born sinners, it means that we are guaranteed to become sinners. There is no other option, but to become sinners. So when you are born, you're a born sinner.


message 12: by Nicholas (new)

Nicholas (authormaze) | 25 comments If you says he separated spirit and flesh, you just answered yourself. A spirit can't figh itself . It says that in the Bible, about the devil fighting his self. Impossible. When you said Jesus came in the flesh, why? I said He did


message 13: by Nicholas (new)

Nicholas (authormaze) | 25 comments Why fight abortion? LOL Because it's a form of killing. You think they fight abortion to keep a baby from going to hell? Wow


message 14: by Nicholas (new)

Nicholas (authormaze) | 25 comments Flesh is the things you do. You don't look at a woman lustfully with your spirit. You Do it with your eyes. Do you remember, when the Bible said it's bet to cut off your hand, then go to hell. It say rebuke your spirit. Sorry for the multiple messages. I'm unable to type everything at once, because of where I'm at.


message 15: by Nicholas (new)

Nicholas (authormaze) | 25 comments I meant, it didn't say rebuke your spirit


message 16: by Cathy (last edited Feb 09, 2015 07:10PM) (new)

Cathy (AuntCathy) | 1 comments Adam and Eve were created as sinless beings. When they were tempted, they fell. Jesus was "God in the flesh," born without sin into a sinful world. Was he tempted. Most certainly. Was he capable of sinning? How can God sin? His role was to conquer sin and begin the process of restoring the Kingdom. I wouldn't call his temptation a "charade." I think it was more of a showdown between himself and Satan, to prove once and for all that Satan's power could no longer hold sway over the world. Jesus smacked down Satan in the wilderness, and then wielded the final blow on the cross. So, even though he was tempted as we are, there was only one possible outcome.


message 17: by Bob (last edited Feb 14, 2015 01:37PM) (new)

Bob Stewart | 14 comments Nicholas wrote: "I meant, it didn't say rebuke your spirit"


At one point you said: GOD knew Esau and what he would become. A newborn baby can't talk, so at what point does it start lying? Please understand that they used wording very different than how we use it in American English. When it says we are born sinners, it means that we are guaranteed to become sinners. There is no other option, but to become sinners. So when you are born, you're a born sinner.

But God said in regard to Esau:Rom_9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

As for children needing to speak to lie either you have not raised any children or forgot what it was like. Regularly when my son was tired he would be fussy and cry when you tried to put him to bed. Gee he was saying I am not tired and do not want to go to sleep. He was lying. More importantly we come forth from the womb sinning. We rebel the moment we are born screaming at the doctor, nurse, mid-wife and parent about having to go through the whole process of leaving our comfortable home in the womb. On a personal experience note, my son was not yet 18 months old when I had to spank him. He was sitting at his cousin’s desk, picking up little plastic letters and throwing them on the floor. I told him if he did it again I would spank him. He picked up a letter, looked at me, looked at the letter, and then tossed it on the floor. My dad who had watched the whole thing howled with laughter. So rebellion is in the heart of a child. And rebellion is sin.

Why fight abortion? LOL Because it's a form of killing. You think they fight abortion to keep a baby from going to hell? Wow

Let me enlighten you somewhat here.. When the writer of Hebrews said that ‘If a person should experience the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and fall away it is impossible for them to come to repentance again.’ That does not mean that the writer thought it was possible. Just that if it were possible then they could not repent. Likewise I stated that an agreement could be made in favor of abortion if what you say is true.
Paul wrote For I am pressed together by the two: having a desire to depart and to be with Christ, which is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more needful for you. So it is better to depart than to be here. If that be true and all babies go to heaven would it not be better for them to depart this world; than to enter into this world and experience sin and as a result probably end up in hell for narrow is the way and few enter therein. Allegorically speaking I had to kill my cat because he was suffering from tumors that prevented him from eating or drinking. So to prevent him from suffering anymore I killed him. Should we if babies get a free pass into heaven also prevent their suffering in a sinful world? The case can be made not that I am making it. For I am saying there is no free pass into heaven.

However they do not get a free pass, we are all dead in our trespasses and sin. How so because we died when Adam sinned. I was talking to my 2nd grandson last week and said something to the effect that I wished I had never married my ex but would have rather marring my current wife 1st. Being an astute teenager he responded that if that were true than his father would not have been born and neither would he have been born. Likewise it would have been better had Adam not sinned but since he did I inherited that sin. He was spiritually alive before he ate the fruit and had fellowship with God. When he ate the fruit he died and that fellowship was terminated. His spiritual deadness was passed on to all of his offspring.

Flesh is the things you do. You don't look at a woman lustfully with your spirit. You Do it with your eyes. Do you remember, when the Bible said it's bet to cut off your hand, then go to hell. It say rebuke your spirit. Sorry for the multiple messages. I'm unable to type everything at once, because of where I'm at.

No I do it with my mind for Jesus said you have already committed adultery in your heart. The point I think He was making is that our body only does what we tell it to do. It only sins in response to our thoughts and desires not the other way around. When a person is hurt in an accident like Charles Krauthammer; he is unable to move but that does nothing to his ability to sin.


message 18: by Nicholas (new)

Nicholas (authormaze) | 25 comments Bob, it's better to not respond. lol. I'm going to point out everything you just said.

What does this have to do with you calling a baby a sinner:
But God said in regard to Esau:Rom_9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

And, it says it in the verse: the baby has done neither good or evil. ding!

The next chapter: it's too long for me to copy, but pay attention to this. I said a baby doesn't go to hell. You said abortion has a free pass. I said, ABORTION IS ANOTHER FORM OF KILLING and that is why abortion is wrong. You're not GOD, so when do you determine whether the child should live in a sinful world? Clear as day! Abortion doesn't cause an infant to go to hell. It causes the person that did it to go to hell.

LOL, adultery in heart stems from you looking at a woman with lust. The Bible states this, not me: it is better to cut off your hand, then go to hell. What would be the purpose, if you created the sin in your spirit? Think! This is the Bible, not me.

Then you mention about whooping an 18 month old for throwing down toys and acting bad. Two things! And pay close attention:
1) The child is 18 months old, not an infant.
2) The child was being disobedient, not sinning. If throwing down toys ever becomes a sin, inform me.

And, what does a cat have to do with this topic?

Let's let this be. It's not necessary. Thank you for everything, my brother in Christ.


message 19: by Erick (new)

Erick (panoramicromantic) | 21 comments Nicholas wrote: "Abortion doesn't cause an infant to go to hell. It causes the person that did it to go to hell. "

Indeed. Well said.


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