I have a question? Your views please.

[SB*needs low angst books*]

I read a lot of reviews on books. Sometime to help pick a new book and sometime just to get another person's point of view on something I read. I see a lot of women say they don't like a caveman or she was forced to do something because the man forced her to. I might have seen it differently even though it is the same book. I guess it leaves me wondering.

What do we expect from a man character? When is it alpha and when is it abuse?

[Kyla]

I like a bossy alpha, but he can't be cruel to her. A good bossy alpha is one who is demanding in bed and in his protectiveness of his partner. I can NEVER tolerate non-consensual physical abuse...there is just no coming back from that for me.

[Nee]

An alpha can be temperamental and possessive but I abhor when he abuses physically the heroine without her consent. When I refer to consensual physical pain is none other than BDSM. The Consequences Series conflicted my point over this since the hero

[Nee]

Continuing the thought...
The hero hit the heroine and made it look like an accident. I love this series like a lot but an abusive man is the worst thing the world. What I do like is a man that doenst want to share. Ive had a fair share of ménage reads and they are good but none like a good old alpha male. He is supposed to provide love, security and a hell of a good time, even if hes a control freak.

[Paganalexandria]

Sbyrd64 wrote: "I read a lot of reviews on books. Sometime to help pick a new book and sometime just to get another person's point of view on something I read. I see a lot of women say they don't like a caveman or..."

Sbyrd64, this is a good topic! let me think...

What do we expect from a main character?
I expect a certain level of intelligence, and self awareness from my main characters. For me they can be extremely flawed, morally corrupt even, but dumb is unforgivable. I'm not talking about making a foolish mistake, saying something ill advised, or just being human. There are also certain lines that the "good" guy, or girl can't cross. If they are ethically challenged, they need to be written as an obvious anti hero. If they do something stupid, it has to acknowledged as stupid. If not I'm going to flag it as a huge plot, and logic fail.


When is it alpha and when is it abuse?
The difference for me sometimes lie in the motivation. Is the hero being controlling to help others, or just himself? I read dark and enjoy darker themes, so abuse in itself doesn't stop me from liking a book. I will fault a hero that seems unaware that he's being abusive. Unless it's an old school bodice ripper, he needs to acknowledge that the "forced seduction" is f*cked up on some level. I don't like when they gloss over their behavior, or pretend it's normal. Self awareness earns points here too.

[Willow]

For me, abuse is pretty clear cut - broken, maimed, damaged/scarred, humiliated, ridiculed, talked down. Anything physical or emotional that wouldn't leave a h in perm damage in reality is okay to me.
I don't like a sharer, I'm more traditional-minded I guess and like the H/h to be more into each other. Although my latest book has a menage scene in it...it just happened, I swear :)

Reading and writing is pure fantasy for me. The characters may come close to reality, but in the end, I like my H to be a little on the edge. I don't mind a little pain with my pleasure and although I would never want a non-con situation in reality, I don't think the fantasy is so objectionable if it's steamy enough.

And I'd say that the adage - to each their own - is always true. I have no problem with someone saying they object to a book due to the nature of the caveman, brute, abusive a'hole behavior of the H or the capture/hostage/stockholming of the h is too non-con...just makes me wanna read it more.
But that's me.

[Becky]

Excellent question. There are things that forceful heroes do in books that most women would not countenance in real life. But even in books...Sometimes verbal or physical "abuse" can be a sexual game...if the guy knows she gets off on it, it's not abuse, it's a kink. Hitting is abuse, but maybe spanking is a game. To me it's clear...If it's not consensual it's abuse.

However, I can read a book about forced seduction, but it's still rape, just rape by a man who gets off on forcing pleasure on an unwilling woman. That would be "dark romance", and the author should not pretend that's it's normal rather than sociopathic behavior from the hero.

Alphas are supposed to be protective, not rapists. The caveman treatment in furtherance of protecting the heroine is cool. Even if not consensual (think Superman carrying Lois Lane off). Possessiveness is also ok ("you are mine, no one else can touch you") but if a cheater is possessive, then it's just that he's a controlling abuser, it's not out of love. And if he's keeping you captive...it's in psycho stalker land. so context is everything.

Btw, I agree with Willow, I prefer stories without other players, but I do think sharing can be hot to read about because that is a kink, whereas cheating is very offensive to me. it's all about what makes sense for the characters...a virginal, not kinky heroine in a relationship with a cheating manwhore is ridiculous and ill-matched, where a menage or even sex club as exploration might further the sexuality of the characters.

Alphas are supposed to be strong and unselfish, But the new alpha-hole is all about bad guys who are very selfish...it's all about them. They might "love" but they don't really put anyone else first and never will. I don't think they are real alphas though. And today there are more alpha-holes than alphas. I think that a lot of readers just enjoy reading about women who have been treated badly and then get their HEA...maybe it helps them hope that their own selfish, cheating boyfriend/husband is going to be caring and faithful when he's probably not?

[SB*needs low angst books*]

I love your answers. I agree. I do love a protective alpha man who can respect is woman's accomplishments and strength but still be in charge. Paganalexandria makes a wonderful point. I do have to have intelligence. Dumb is annoying.

[Vipshyana]

I think an alpha male is a strongest person whereas an abuser is a weakest and an insecure person

[Ruth]

Vipshyana wrote: "I think an alpha male is a strongest person whereas an abuser is a weakest and an insecure person"

Well said

[Vipshyana]

Ruth wrote: "Vipshyana wrote: "I think an alpha male is a strongest person whereas an abuser is a weakest and an insecure person"

Well said"

thanks.;)

[Julie]

I agree with the top two readers. There's a difference between caveman and abuser. My opinion only. Abuser to me would physically, mentally, verbablly abuse. Abusers don't willing let you go. I love a hot caveman! I think someone at the beginning of this thread mentioned bed, protective, and I myself love some jealousy thrown on there...don't mess with my girl, yeah, I love them.

[Julie]

I must add, I have only experienced Abusive personality once that ended up with my sisters best friend being murdered ( like a sister to me for years). The signs were everywhere, he even verbaly said it, worse part is, he had a hold on her, so much for a restraning order, it didn't work...to this day I wish she would have listened because I told her he was going to kill her without a doubt, she laughed...2months later he shot her 2x. It was verbal, mental, and physical for years.

[Paganalexandria]

Julie wrote: "I must add, I have only experienced Abusive personality once that ended up with my sisters best friend being murdered ( like a sister to me for years). The signs were everywhere, he even verbaly sa..."

Julie, I'm so sorry for your loss. You really described the abused/abuser dance really well. That's the part that's so frustrating for those on the outside, looking in sometimes. The abused person is sometimes so trapped in the sickness of it, to listen, or heed the warnings from others. They often times turn against you for daring to voice your concerns. It can be hard to stay objective, and not hold it against them, knowing it's just part of the abuse cycle.

[SB*needs low angst books*]

Julie I am sorry that you had to experience that. It is a hard thing to see but can't convince or change the person view of their situation.

Back to topic. It is this that I mean in a way though. When we read a book our own experience or even just views color how we see something. I might see his behavior not bad you could it see it has abusive no matter what in the same book. Like a heroine I might think she is a bitch but someone else sees her as kick ass. Our views color how we see a hero in a book.

[Julie]

I can agree with how you put that.

[SB*needs low angst books*]

You know Julie, I can relate some to your story. One if my sister seems to go with the same man different names but all the same underneath. Users who are verbally abusive and in a couple of cases physically. She always got out of them without it going as far as your friend but still. She doesn't seem to see that. She gives them a chance when all the warning bells should go off when certain patterns or behaviors appear. I don't think you should look at anyone and assume but if the behaviors are the same or if it makes you feel bad or uncomfortable that is when a step back is needed to see the big picture. I know that family is not always right when it comes to your relationship but I do think being able to view things clearly are needed and we as women sometime brush off concern too often as not necessary. I know my husband hates when I don't zip up my purse or have a purse that can't be secured with zippers or button. Then I saw a story how this woman at the grocery store left her open bag in her cart and got her wallet stolen. I didn't think it was a big deal he saw it differently but then it was brought to my attention why is was important. I had to step back and realize he was right.