Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion

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message 1: by Rod (last edited Jan 27, 2015 04:26PM) (new)

Rod Horncastle I would think that any visitors to our little group here will come away thinking Apologetics is all about dismantling a historical and reliable Christian core.

When are we ever pro-apologetics here? What is it that we hold up as the trustworthy core of our Hope? I walk away from most of my chats here thinking that people have no factual Christianity to be apologetic about...anything mentioned as solid and reliable quickly gets a liberal slap and dismissal.

So in a few paragraphs or less:
Convince me that your abilities to do apologetics is about sharing the HOPE that is in you? How is your Christian hope better than anyone else's? (like a Buddhist or Muslim or Atheist)


message 2: by Rod (last edited Jan 27, 2015 04:29PM) (new)

Rod Horncastle AS for me:

God has spoken to us truthfully through HIS Word. I have a trustworthy HOPE that the Bible is our True and eternal message from the Holy Spirit.
Everything Jesus did for us (and that we need to know) is carefully and accurately recorded and preserved. I don't need prophets or revelations or (?)... We have enough. And it works.

Good enough for William Tyndale - and it's good enough for me. John MacArthur and Ravi Zacharias seem to agree.


message 3: by Jeffrey (new)

Jeffrey (telemantros) | 48 comments I would suggest that Christianity is truthful, good and beautiful.

It is truthful because it captures the theistic nature of our universe, that is, the personal God ordered and crafted external world of physics as well as the internal world of our souls. More than that, it speaks to problem and solution to mankind's spiritual and existential crisis: we are deeply fallen, confused, and twisted at our cores and God broke the back of sin on a roman cross at Calvary two thousand years ago. God personally solved our crisis by condescending to man and becoming man in flesh, living amongst us and experiencing our pains, fears and joys and ultimately sacrificing himself for us. We know this through historical and experiential means as well as scripture.

It is good because it encourages a deep moral commitment to emulate the nature of God resulting in moral behavior but also deep revision of our souls. The Christian is called to mend their soul so to speak, to do the deep work with the aide of the HS to rend and convict and change ourselves. To walk in the spirit, to put off the old self and put on the new. To realize what true good health is and caste off sin, mental pathology, and broken relationships.

And Christianity is beautiful. True forgiveness is emulated in Christ, and commanded to his followers. Genuine humanity is demonstrated. We see the beauty of God in his works and in the incarnation of himself.

This Jesus narrative is lacking in other faiths.

I could go on but I got tired ;) ... theres a beginning.


message 4: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle Good stuff Jeffrey, you appear to have a real Jesus mixed supernaturally in an Earthly historic framework that we can trust -- that died for Sin as shared in scripture.

Apologetics worth exploring.


message 5: by David (new)

David I'd just copy and paste what Rod said...except for the part about Macarthur and Zacharias.


message 6: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle David I didn't know you agreed with this: (that is great news!)

Rod comment: "Everything Jesus did for us (and that we need to know) is carefully and accurately recorded and preserved."

And I mean EVERYTHING. example:
Jude 1:5
Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.


message 7: by Lee (new)

Lee Harmon (DubiousDisciple) | 2112 comments Is that an example of what you mean by seeing Jesus in the Old Testament, Rod?


message 8: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle Actually no lee. A fair question though.


message 9: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments Rod - Apologetics, in it's current configuration, is still in its infancy. Let IT settle out into a coherent mixture of Biblical interpretation and natural law and I'll give it fuller consideration.


message 10: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle Robert what is this truthful immovable rock that is the Hope that is in you that you are told to give a defence of ?
Surely you aren't running on experiential emotional fables made up by man?
That is OUR apologetics. Blind faith isn't worth defending.


message 11: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments That Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Light, Rod. It's more than just hope, Rod, it's become MY entire reason for existence. BUT, I have a problem - I want vengeance. I don't want drug dealers who have spent a lifetime selling addicting and life-threatening drugs to kids to repent - I want them to FRY eternally! So I can't always do apologetics without being hypocritical.


message 12: by Lee (new)

Lee Harmon (DubiousDisciple) | 2112 comments Are you being facetious, Robert? I honestly can't tell.


message 13: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments No, Lee; I'm not being facetious. I don't find a deathbed conversion appealing. Someone who has spent a lifetime dissing God and being a menace to society should meet a just fate. Hopefully, God hardens their heart so a last-minute spiritual awakening isn't possible.


message 14: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle How does the Thief on the Cross account hit you Robert?

Matthew 27:44
In the same way the rebels/robbers/criminals who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

But then...
Luke 23:
42And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

God Bless death bed conversions.

Of course: I say this man was elect - and God was waiting for the perfect moment for ALL OF ETERNITY to enjoy this conversion. It's my favorite part of the Bible.

I have no problem with Hitler having a deathbed conversion. But I agree that many hearts are hardened and beyond hope.


message 15: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments Rod - I agree this particular thief was elect and fulfilled God's purpose for him by hanging around with Jesus and sensing His divinity. Also, I'm not questioning God's criteria for salvation. I AM thinking out loud as a thoroughly sinful mortal who has strong feelings about justice and they aren't the weak, let's not be judgmental, excuse making variety favored by pansy liberals. Hitler did no prison time for his offenses, therefore the only fitting punishment would be a hellish eternity. Wouldn't a just God demand it?


message 16: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle I agree with you a great deal on this Robert. I do embrace God's justice and Grace fully.

I think there is often a point in someone's EVIL that they will never return from. It is fascinating how many Christian conversions have to SOON deal with a hell on earth based on their crimes.

How many Christians did the Apostle Paul murder? And yet his earthly life was NOT pleasant. Often I meet NEW Christians that are about to suffer tremendously for their past actions. If they are True Christians they will embrace the need for their savior and ride out their consequences. Liberals and Charismatics usually quickly turn to Atheism or some other more promising earthly religion.


message 17: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle I often find this verse fascinating:

Revelation 6:
The Fifth Seal: Martyrs
9When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"…

I think this agrees with your thinking Robert. There is a time of Hope - and a time for Avenging.


message 18: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments Thanks for the verse, Rod - truly food for thought.


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