Classics and the Western Canon discussion

71 views
Ulysses > 7. Aeolus

Comments Showing 1-50 of 74 (74 new)    post a comment »
« previous 1

message 1: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments In book 10 of the Odyssey, Aeolus, god of the winds, safeguards Odysseus’s voyage home by sending him off in the right direction and capturing all the other winds in a bag which he gives to Odysseus. As the ship and its crew catch sight of Ithaka and are nearly home, Odysseus grows sleepy and falls into a slumber. His crew, thinking the bag of Aeolus holds some special treasure that Odysseus has been holding back from them, open the bag and unleash the winds. They are blown in the opposite direction, all the way back to the island of Aeolus.

Back on the island of Aeolus, Odysseus tries to explain what happened, but he is rebuffed by Aeolus, who says:

“O least of living creatures, out of this island! Hurry! I have no right to see on his way, none to give passage to any man whom the blessed gods hate with such bitterness. Out. This arrival means you are hateful to the immortals.”

In episode 7 of Ulysses, Mr. Bloom plies his trade as an ad canvasser for the Weekly Freeman and Freeman’s Journal. The chapter is marked by the use of headlines, most of which act more like photo captions than headlines per se. In addition to the numerous allusions and metaphors relating to wind, the noise of the office predominates: the sound of the press, the shouting of the newsboys, telephones, and the speechifying of the newsmen. The “art” of this episode is rhetoric, and there is a lot of it. Rhetoric as oratory and rhetoric as figures of speech. (There is a long list of the many rhetorical forms used in this episode in Stuart Gilbert’s book, presumably supplied to Gilbert by Joyce himself.)

This is a busy, noisy chapter. In short, Bloom is trying to arrange for the placement of an ad for Alexander Keyes, “tea, wine, and spirit merchant.” (More keys! Will these be lost as well?) Bloom has an idea for the ad -- a graphic showing crossed keys in a circle. He has seen the design in a Kilkenny paper, which he will later get a copy of in the National Library. The business manager, Nannetti, says he will run the ad and supply a “par,” (a puff piece), if Keyes will agree to a three-month placement. Bloom needs to speak with Keyes about this, so he goes next door to the office of the Evening Telegraph to use the telephone. In the office there are a number of men, including Simon Dedalus, who are engaging in banter about the day’s events and mocking a patriotic speech made by a local politician. Bloom leaves in search of Keyes. Simon Dedalus and another fellow leave thereafter to have a drink somewhere.

A few moments later Stephen Dedalus arrives with his letter from Mr. Deasy. Myles Crawford, the blustery editor of the Evening Telegraph, agrees to publish the letter and tries to enlist Stephen as a writer for his paper. To inspire Stephen, he tells him the story of how Ignatius Gallaher broke the story of the Invincibles and the Phoenix Park murders. The telephone rings, interrupting Crawford’s spirited story-telling. It is Bloom. “Tell him to go to hell,” Crawford erupts.

Meanwhile, the other men in the office are discussing great Irish orators of the past. Stephen’s thoughts run to Dante and Hamlet while he listens. Professor MacHugh remarks upon a speech by John F. Taylor, which he considers the finest display of oratory he has ever heard. The speech compares Israel in captivity to an oppressed Ireland. Joyce read this passage for a recording made in 1924, linked below. (Why do you suppose he selected this passage?)

Stephen suggests they repair to Mooneys, a local “boosing shed.” The others enthusiastically agree, but Crawford cannot find his keys and turns back. At that moment Bloom returns with the news that Keyes will renew for two months (not three) and Crawford responds with the anger of Aeolus: “Will you tell him he can kiss my arse?”

While they are walking to the pub, Stephen tells his ‘Parable of the Plums,’ (or alternatively, “A Pisgah Sight of Palestine,” ) which is about two “vestal virgins” who climb Nelson’s Pillar to see the view of Dublin from the top. They buy a bag of plums and spit out the stones through the railings. What is the point of this “parable”?

We have seen in previous episodes how Bloom is treated as an outsider by his peers, and we see it again here. How does Bloom deal with this exclusion?

Joyce reads from Aeolus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhW0T...


message 2: by Lily (last edited Jan 20, 2015 09:41PM) (new)

Lily (joy1) | 5057 comments Phoenix Park Murders

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_...

A couple of good pictures of victims: Cavendish and Burke. There is a link to ~50min podcast, to which I did not listen.

If someone finds a good, relatively short site about this aspect of Irish history, please share.

Sidebar: For some pictures of the park, good links to other scenes from the area: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_...


message 3: by Linda (new)

Linda | 322 comments For the moment I'm just going to post that I read this section and had quite the difficult time with it. For one, I was confused as to the setting - I thought it was all taking place in a newspaper office, I didn't realize Bloom had left one office to go to another in order to make the phone call. I thought he had stepped into a back room of the same office. Secondly, I didn't understand some of the dialogue - the speech, for example, and what Stephen's story about the virgins was supposed to mean.

And I'm curious as to why Crawford refused Keye's 2 month advertisement.

I will wait to get enlightened by everyone's input this week...


message 4: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments Linda wrote: "For the moment I'm just going to post that I read this section and had quite the difficult time with it. For one, I was confused as to the setting - I thought it was all taking place in a newspape..."

It is a bit confusing, but it's meant to be that way! It's like being in a crowd in a windstorm, people yelling over the noise and over each other. Joyce doesn't make it clear where Bloom is -- this can be figured out after careful reading, but it's not obvious, but not critical either. Bloom goes in and out of the picture, with the news guys arguing and telling stories and reliving the past. The scene strikes me as sort of cartoon-ish. Loud and kinetic.

As for the parable, I'm looking forward to enlightenment on that as well.


message 5: by Linda (new)

Linda | 322 comments Thomas wrote: "It is a bit confusing, but it's meant to be that way! It's like being in a crowd in a windstorm, people yelling over the noise and over each other."

Thanks Thomas! I just wanted to chime in to say that I read it, but that I don't have anything really to say yet since it was so confusing. I appreciate the title of the episode, though, after your nice opening summary.


message 6: by Wendel (new)

Wendel (wendelman) | 609 comments Rather depressing cacophony of office roosters. Windbags, always ready to play someone a nasty trick. When not busy flattering or slandering one another, they snivel about the wrong done to Ireland. In Stephen’s parable they are old virgins, climbing up the British phallus to spit their barren seed (!) over Dublin. How futile. A sad story that is luckily not understood.

But this is how men decide their pecking order. Bloom (the only one who actually does something) is a poor player and is rated even lower than that servile creep Lenehan. Of course, Bloom is 'foreign', but so is Nannetti (more Irish than the Irish). There must also be something in his personality to set him apart. Or is he just trying too hard?

Perhaps more surprising is Stephen’s success. Thinking about poems and telling mean stories doesn't seem the way to make it. Of course his dad is a senior member of the coterie, but that is probably not all. Something in his nature that demands respect. Or just fear that one day he will tell stories that will be understood?


message 7: by Wendel (new)

Wendel (wendelman) | 609 comments Linda wrote: "And I'm curious as to why Crawford refused Keye's 2 month advertisement ..."

There is no sense in it - it is something people do just because they can. It's not in the interest of the newspaper, mean towards Bloom, and Crawford hardly gets a kick out of it. But such is the human condition.


message 8: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments Patrice wrote: "I wonder if someone could explain, in 25 words or less, exactly where joyce stood vis a vis the Irish/British situation. He has contempt for the Irish nationalists, right? Yet he too seems to hav..."

Joyce was a nationalist, actually, but a disgusted one. One of his great heroes was Parnell, who fought valiantly for home rule but lost support when it was discovered he was in a relationship with a married woman, (separated but her husband would not allow a divorce.) Joyce considered this a betrayal of Parnell by the people.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/...


message 9: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments Wendel wrote: "In Stephen’s parable they are old virgins, climbing up the British phallus to spit their barren seed (!) over Dublin. How futile. A sad story that is luckily not understood."

Thanks, Wendel. Nice encapsulation. It's interesting that one of the "vestals" is Florence McCabe, last imagined by Stephen as a midwife carrying a misbirth in a bag on the strand.


message 10: by Hollyinnnv (new)

Hollyinnnv | 60 comments I enjoyed this chapter much more than Hades. There seemed to be more interesting things going on and a little more "action." I liked the paragraph with all of the misspellings and the paragraph with words written backwards. Fun word play. I did not understand the references to Ohio, but I am heading over to Schmoop after I post this to see if I can figure it out. I still don't see why everyone is so respectful of Stephen when he doesn't seem to have done anything to prove his supposed greatness yet. Has he written anything really great? Does he say much at all?


message 11: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments Patrice wrote: "I was really confused about where he stood politically, It seems Joyce was angry at everyone. The Brits (of course) but Parnell too for not coming through for the people.

But what exactly did he..."


He wasn't angry with Parnell -- he thought Parnell was a martyr. If he was angry with anyone it was the collective Irish, but he thought that the Irish were the way they were because of years of oppression by the British and the Church. I think he was more depressed by this state of affairs than angry exactly.

He was not a proponent of going back to the old ways, so the Irish revival movement was not something he thought useful. He was a progressive. (And a socialist.) He wanted Ireland to move forward with the rest of Europe, but he despaired that that would ever happen.


message 12: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments Also on the subject of politics (sort of) the first magazines to publish episodes from Ulysses were associated with anarchism and the women's rights movement.

Joyce's individualism derived partly from anarchism. He acquired books about anarchy in trieste and began calling himself an anarchist as early as 1907, though he was a "philosophical" anarchist rather than a political one -- and his stomach, he said, was an incorrigible capitalist. His interest in anarchism stemmed from the tenet that all authority --governmental or religious -- boiled down to control without consent. To govern is to violate an individual's sovereignty.

--Kevin Birmingham The Most Dangerous Book: The Battle for James Joyce's Ulysses

This might explain why he wasn't a very politically active person.


message 13: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments Patrice wrote: "He was a socialist and an anarchist? Aren't those opposites?"

Yep. He was labeled those things (or labeled himself) at different times, in different contexts. Above everything he was an artist. That's all he really cared about.


message 14: by Rosemary (new)

Rosemary | 232 comments Linda wrote: "For the moment I'm just going to post that I read this section and had quite the difficult time with it. For one, I was confused as to the setting - I thought it was all taking place in a newspape..."

Linda this is one of the chapters I had a very hard time with, too. I entirely gave up trying to figure out what was going on! Eventually I just read it aloud to myself, a line at a time. I swear the only thing that kept be going was how my edition has line numbers marked along the edge, so I could keep track of my progress.


message 15: by Rosemary (last edited Jan 22, 2015 06:10AM) (new)

Rosemary | 232 comments Thomas wrote: "Also on the subject of politics (sort of) the first magazines to publish episodes from Ulysses were associated with anarchism and the women's rights movement.

Joyce's individualism derived partly..."


Thomas, my dad bought me a copy of The Most Dangerous Book when he heard I was reading Ulysses. I was waiting to read it until after I finished, but do you think it'd be helpful if I read it now?


message 16: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments Rosemary wrote: Thomas, my dad bought me a copy of The Most Dangerous Book when he heard I was reading Ulysses. I was waiting to read it until after I finished, but do you think it'd be helpful if I read it now? "

It's a great read, which sets it apart from most of the academic-type stuff that has been written about Ulysses. But it's mostly about the publication of the book and the legal issues involved, with some insight into Joyce's health and financial problems, so it's a little tangential to the reading of Ulysses itself.


message 17: by Rosemary (new)

Rosemary | 232 comments Thanks!


message 18: by Zippy (new)

Zippy | 155 comments Wendel wrote: "Rather depressing cacophony of office roosters. Windbags, always ready to play someone a nasty trick. When not busy flattering or slandering one another, they snivel about the wrong done to Ireland..."

LOL!

Every speech brought from me a cry of (my new favorite phrase) "Shite and Onions!" All except "that servile creep Lenehan," the only bloke I actually enjoyed hearing from.


message 19: by Wendel (new)

Wendel (wendelman) | 609 comments I remembered him from Two Gallants in Dubliners. That did not help either -:).

Most people considered Lenehan a leech but, in spite of this reputation, his adroitness and eloquence had always prevented his friends from forming any general policy against him. He had a brave manner of coming up to a party of them in a bar and of holding himself nimbly at the borders of the company until he was included in a round. He was a sporting vagrant armed with a vast stock of stories, limericks and riddles. He was insensitive to all kinds of discourtesy.

Many of the characters in Ulysses also figure in one or more of the earlier stories. In its first incarnation the novel was just another story meant to be included in Dubliners.


message 20: by Wendel (new)

Wendel (wendelman) | 609 comments Wendel wrote: "Linda wrote: "And I'm curious as to why Crawford refused Keye's 2 month advertisement ..."

There is no sense in it - it is something people do just because they can. It's not in the interest of th..."


Also, we may think of Crawford as Aeolus, sending Odysseus away in anger. But the parallel with Homer is a bit 'procrustean'.


message 21: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 7718 comments Thomas wrote: "Joyce doesn't make it clear where Bloom is -- this can be figured out after careful reading, but it's not obvious, ..."

Along with Linda, I had this problem here, too. And I had the same problem in Proteus, when I thought that he had actually gone into Aunt Sara's: "I pull the wheezy bell of their shuttered cottage: and wait." It wasn't until the discussion here that I realized that he was just imagining the whole episode of the visit.

Perhaps the point is that Bloom knows where he is, where he's going, so he doesn't need to make it explicit; it's up to us to figure it out. (One of many things that makes this so different from a traditional novel; I don't recall any other novel where the author left it so unclear where the central characters were at any given time.)


message 22: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 7718 comments Patrice wrote: "So funny! Egypt was the house of bondage. He has half knowledge."

There are a lot of things he has half knowledge about. But I suppose most of us are in that situation, too. And would be much more so if we couldn't go rapidly to Wikipedia to refresh and correct our memories!


message 23: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 7718 comments Linda wrote: "I appreciate the title of the episode, though, after your nice opening summary. "

Thomas's opening posts are superb. I'm very tempted to wait to read a section until after I've read his opening post so I know what the important points to look for are!


message 24: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 7718 comments This section really cemented for me how ordinary, almost nondescript, a person Bloom is, particularly when contrasted against Stephen who is asked to write for the paper (presumably for pay) that Bloom is having trouble getting a paid advertisement into. And as Thomas noted, he is constantly overlooked by the people he is with.

I think it's telling (though I'm not sure yet what all it tells us!) that Joyce chose such a bland, quotidian person to be his primary character. His musings aren't intellectual, or inspiring; they're just the thoughts of a commonplace person. It is highly unusual, even somewhat daring, to place such an insipid person at the center of an entire novel.


message 25: by Linda (new)

Linda | 322 comments Everyman wrote: "Thomas's opening posts are superb. I'm very tempted to wait to read a section until after I've read his opening post so I know what the important points to look for are!"

Yes - "superb". That's what Thomas' opening posts are. Definitely better than just "nice" (in my words). :)

And I agree with almost wanting to wait for the opening summaries. But I really want to try and experience the book itself without outside influence and see how much I'm able to pick up, and more to the point - how much I didn't realize was going on - until I come here to read the summary and discussion.


message 26: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments I'm glad the summaries are helpful, as skeletal as they are. You are all fleshing out the skeleton nicely, even when I have missed some bones. A lot of this book is only understood in hindsight, so sometimes it's a matter of going back and filling in the spaces.

A couple of spaces -- or missing bones -- that are noteworthy:

Bloom thinks about going home at one point in this episode, under the headline: ONLY ONCE MORE THAT SOAP.

What perfume does your wife use? I could go home still: tram: something I forgot. Just to see before dressing. No. Here. No.

The episode starts with a listing of all the trams that depart from the site of Nelson's Pillar (a symbol in Stephen's parable.) Bloom thinks about taking the tram home, but decides against it. At the end of the episode, the trams are listed again, but this time they stand motionless in their tracks, "becalmed in short circuit."


message 27: by Linda (new)

Linda | 322 comments Thomas wrote: "Bloom thinks about taking the tram home, but decides against it."

I did pick this up and wondered if his deciding against going home had anything to do with possibly catching Molly with her possible lover, and that for Bloom that would be too much of an awkward possibility that he didn't want to take the chance? Not sure, but the thought ran through my head. Perhaps it was simply just too much trouble to go back home.


message 28: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments Linda wrote: "I did pick this up and wondered if his deciding against going home had anything to do with possibly catching Molly with her possible lover, and that for Bloom that would be too much of an awkward possibility that he didn't want to take the chance?"

That is my sense of it as well. Bloom is deliberately avoiding the situation, distracting himself, running away from the sight and even the thought of Boylan. He doesn't want to face up to it at all. He's as powerless as the trams caught in short-circuit, or as futile as the spinsters in Stephen's parable.


message 29: by Suzann (new)

Suzann | 358 comments Thomas wrote: "Linda wrote: "I did pick this up and wondered if his deciding against going home had anything to do with possibly catching Molly with her possible lover, and that for Bloom that would be too much o..."

I don't know how this will play out, but might Bloom's decision not to go home be from a position of strength? Is he a master of timing? He's not anxious or insecure, he's confident of Molly's interest in him, or at least believes she has a right to choose. It's not his nature to bust into a dalliance. He's practical. He won't win her by outting her. Maybe the stopped trams confirm his decision to wait. He could get home by another means if he chose.


message 30: by Suzann (new)

Suzann | 358 comments No comments on rhetoric, the art for this episode yet. In reviewing "rhetoric", I had no idea there were so many rhetorical devices and that Joyce so masterfully incorporated them in the episode and the whole text. Knowing the names of devices makes me more aware of them, but trying to list or identify them distracts from understanding the greater whole. Is the purpose of rhetoric the art of persuasion?


message 31: by Charles (new)

Charles Susan wrote: "Thomas wrote: "Linda wrote: "I did pick this up and wondered if his deciding against going home had anything to do with possibly catching Molly with her possible lover, and that for Bloom that woul..."

I'm going to agree with Susan but I ought not say why. I do agree also that from what we have seen, Bloom is confident of Molly's love. Also, he is proud of her singing career, even though Boylan is the impresario.


message 32: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments Susan wrote: " He's not anxious or insecure, he's confident of Molly's interest in him, or at least believes she has a right to choose. It's not his nature to bust into a dalliance. "

What puzzles me is how little emotional information Bloom imparts to us regarding this affair. I think we assume that he is secure in his relationship with Molly because he doesn't respond in a traditional way to the threat that Boylan presents. But we know he does not like Boylan, the "worst man in Dublin." He evades him, and he evades his own thoughts about him, leaving us with little to go on.


message 33: by Suzann (new)

Suzann | 358 comments Patrice wrote: "That's what bothered me from the first. The way he accepted that letter was from Boylan. It was hard to understand.

The only thing that comes close to me is from the movie Theory of Everything. ..."

I'm not sure why this picture of Bloom doesn't fit the one I've conjured up. To me Bloom is neither crippled, nor an inadequate husband for Molly. Maybe I want to find too much of the Odysseus story in this story. Odysseus is in exile and will return to Penelope. He returns home disguised as a beggar to check out the scene before exposing himself to possible death at the hands of the suitors. Although Penelope recognizes Odysseus in disguise, she lets him reveal himself in his own time and deal with the suitors as he will. He does not kill them. As long as they acknowledge his rightful place with Penelope no retribution is required. So likewise, Bloom's relationship is in exile and I think he believes that,in time, there will be a return to the passion he and Molly knew. To me both Odysseus and Bloom have the heroic qualities of patience, timing, understanding of human (and particularly female)nature, ability to act. He might not like Blazes, but isn't it always flattering to the male ego when someone else finds his wife appealing? Could Molly and Bloom be flirting with outsiders precisely to engage the attention of their true love?


message 34: by Charles (new)

Charles Susan wrote: "I'm not sure why this picture of Bloom doesn't fit the one I've conjured up. To me Bloom is neither crippled, nor an inadequate husband for Molly. Maybe I want to find too much of the Odysseus story "

This seems right to me, and especially so with the parallels from the Odyssey. As to why Bloom doesn't give us more information, perhaps the right way to put it is that he isn't talking to us but to himself, and he has no need to think about what is so familiar, unless something happens which provokes it.


message 35: by Linda (new)

Linda | 322 comments Patrice wrote: "I'm wondering if Bloom feels equally crippled? Maybe this is an extension of his compassion? He feels for Molly? It's the nearest I can come to an explanation.

But he is suffering. But maybe he feels he has no right to fight it since he can't be the husband Molly deserves?"


Thinking about this, I kept coming back to another post, which happens to be in the next thread, so I will list it as a spoiler:

Sue's message #4 in the next thread (episode 8):(view spoiler)


message 36: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 7718 comments Thomas wrote: "Bloom thinks about going home at one point in this episode,"

Is there any connection between that and Stephen earlier deciding he wasn't going back to the Tower? Or would it be a spoiler to answer this?


message 37: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 7718 comments Susan wrote: "The only thing that comes close to me is from the movie Theory of Everything. ..."
I'm not sure why this picture of Bloom doesn't fit the one I've conjured up. To me Bloom is neither crippled, nor an inadequate husband for Molly. "


I agree with you there. He seems to me not crippled (presumably emotionally) but more just nondescript, neutral. I haven't seen enough of his interactions with Molly to know how adequate he is; maybe she just needs more than one adequacy.


message 38: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 7718 comments Susan wrote: "Maybe I want to find too much of the Odysseus story in this story. Odysseus is in exile and will return to Penelope. He returns home disguised as a beggar to check out the scene before exposing himself to possible death at the hands of the suitors..."

Very well said. Nice post.


message 39: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments Charles wrote: "As to why Bloom doesn't give us more information, perhaps the right way to put it is that he isn't talking to us but to himself, and he has no need to think about what is so familiar, unless something happens which provokes it. "

I think one of the things that makes Bloom so interesting is that he does think of the familiar, on a pretty continuous basis. But when the thought of Boylan occurs to him he squelches it. He never says to himself, "Well, it's all for the best because I love Molly and I have this problem. What a grand time they'll have in our Gibraltar bed."

(And it just occurred to me about that bed. Wasn't there something special about Odysseus and Penelope's bed?)


message 40: by Adelle (last edited Jan 26, 2015 05:44PM) (new)

Adelle | 148 comments Thomas wrote..What puzzles me is how little emotional information Bloom imparts to us regarding this affair. I think we assume that he is secure in his relationship with Molly because he doesn't respond in a traditional way to the threat that Boylan presents.

Mmm...Thomas, how inclusive is your "we"? I assume no such thing.


message 41: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments Adelle wrote: "Mmm...Thomas, how inclusive is your "we"? I assume no such thing. ."

Sorry, that was a rhetorical "we." I thought I could get away with it for this episode... :-)

But to answer your question, that "we" is not very inclusive, since it doesn't include me either. That was my point, actually. Bloom expresses his love for Molly, but he is sexually absent from her. In exile, perhaps. That doesn't seem to be a secure situation to me, but that's my point of view. We just don't know about how Bloom feels because he doesn't want to think about it. (I'll be happy to remove that "We" if anybody can point to where Bloom tells us how secure or insecure he feels.)


message 42: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 4514 comments His reaction to Boylan is not necessarily a reflection on the state of his relationship with Molly. With anybody else, I'd say it was, but Bloom is very strange in this respect. In the next episode he goes from a reaction of disgust at the mention of Boylan to a fond memory of a romantic encounter with Molly on the hill of Howth. I find that very strange. For as humdrum and bland as Bloom seems sometimes, he is not an ordinary man.


message 43: by Adelle (new)

Adelle | 148 comments Thomas wrote: "Adelle wrote: "Mmm...Thomas, how inclusive is your "we"? I assume no such thing. ."

Sorry, that was a rhetorical "we." I thought I could get away with it for this episode... :-)

But to answer you..."


Oh,ok. Thanks, Thomas.


message 44: by Wendel (new)

Wendel (wendelman) | 609 comments Concerning Bloom's attitude towards Molly's possible infidelity we still have the voglio e non vorrei (I want and I would not like) from the Calypso episode to consider. Bloom is of two minds - his decision seems final only when the traffic stops (in the next episode).


message 45: by Kathy (new)

Kathy (klzeepsbcglobalnet) | 476 comments Charles wrote: "As to why Bloom doesn't give us more information, perhaps the right way to put it is that he isn't talking to us but to himself, and he has no need to think about what is so familiar, unless something happens which provokes it. "

I agree with Charles--what Susan says in 44 is my take on Bloom, and the parallels she draws with Odysseus seem to confirm it, at least for now. Responding to the rest of what Charles said, I would just add that few things annoy us (sorry, again with the royal "we") as readers of fiction more than when an author breaks the narrative voice to tell us things the point-of-view character has no need to think about. Something like: "As Debbie thought of her mother, who lived in St. Louis and liked onions,..." Debbie already knows her mother lives in St. Louis and likes onions! The reference is entirely gratuitous. (Do not ask me where that example came from or I will have to give you a Joycean answer.) One of the great tricks of great writers is being able to impart that kind of information to us without us even noticing it. In Joyce's case, we don't notice it until a second (or later) reading, and so be it. That's apparently just as he wanted it!


message 46: by Silver (new)

Silver Linda wrote: "For the moment I'm just going to post that I read this section and had quite the difficult time with it. For one, I was confused as to the setting - I thought it was all taking place in a newspape..."

I found this chapter to be confusing as well. Most the time I did not really understand exzactly what was going on, and it was rather difficult to follow.

It was one of those chapters in which I tried to just check it in, enjoy the flow and rythem of the langauge and not try too hard to make sense of it. I would have momentary glimmerings of understanding, before becoming lost in the crowd again so to speak.

I did like the way in which this chapter was reflective of Journalistic writing, with the little headlines breaking up the various different sections.

And I do think this chapter captured the feeling and the mood of being in the hustle and bustle of the newspaper office and all the chaos going on and various different conversations and noise and ruckus.


message 47: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 7718 comments Silver wrote: "And I do think this chapter captured the feeling and the mood of being in the hustle and bustle of the newspaper office and all the chaos going on and various different conversations and noise and ruckus. "

I agree with that. I think it was the noisiest section of the book so far.


message 48: by Silver (new)

Silver Everyman wrote: "I agree with that. I think it was the noisiest section of the book so far. ."

Even though at times it can make for somewhat difficult and confusing reading, I do enjoy and appreciate the way in which Joyce writes in a way that really captures the way people actually do think, or speak. He really creates a realistic atmosphere.

He has these snippets of conservations, or disjointed thoughts which is what it is really like when one is among a crowd of people or have several people talking at once.

It is sometimes frustrating reading it in trying to track what is happening, but I like the atmosphere of it.


message 49: by Suzann (new)

Suzann | 358 comments Silver wrote: "Linda wrote: "For the moment I'm just going to post that I read this section and had quite the difficult time with it. For one, I was confused as to the setting - I thought it was all taking place..."

Somehow I got the idea that most of the newspaper content ranged from inaccurate to blatantly, ridiculously wrong. For all it's noise, the newspaper industry seems to be a source of amusement rather than useful information.


message 50: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 7718 comments Susan wrote: "Somehow I got the idea that most of the newspaper content ranged from inaccurate to blatantly, ridiculously wrong."

Interesting. I didn't pick up on that. Maybe Thomas or David have thoughts about it?


« previous 1
back to top