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The King's Scrolls (Ilyon Chronicles, #2)
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Book Discussion > The King's Scrolls Discussion **SPOILERS**

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message 1: by Jaye (new)

Jaye Knight (jayelknight) | 382 comments Mod
I thought I'd get a discussion topic going for The King's Scrolls even though it isn't out yet since I know many of my pre-readers have recently finished or are currently reading it. So go ahead and discuss your thoughts and feelings here.

And if you have not read it yet, I do not suggest reading past this point! I'm sure there will be major SPOILERS!


Kendra Ardnek | 538 comments Yes, beware spoilers. I shall try to restrain myself, but I'm in flail mode right now.

First of all WILLIAM!!!!! *sniff, sniff* (For the record, William is one of my favorite names, because if I'd been a boy, I would have been named Richard William).

TIMOTHY!!!! He's just so sweet. (Also a favorite name, 'cause it's my dad's) And I ship him with Leetra. You'd better give him a happy ending, by the way. I'll be most upset if you don't.

Jace and Kyrin!!! Adorable as ever.

Kaden got a dragon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *Very happy dance.* But poor Jace. But he and Gem were so sweet!!!!

And Marcus and Liam! (The whole Altair family, for that matter).

This book was completely not what I'd been expecting, and I loved every moment of it ... except for dying characters part. That wasn't so fun. But I loved it!!!!

(Okay, now that I have that out of me, I shall endeavor to write a sensible review on my blog.)


Claire Banschbach ha ha! Kendra, all of the above!!!
I loved Marcus and Liam! I really liked them in Resistance and my heart just about broke for Liam in TKS.
Also, Timothy. And Aaron. :) :)


message 4: by Jaye (last edited Jan 20, 2015 01:40PM) (new)

Jaye Knight (jayelknight) | 382 comments Mod
I'll join you in crying over William. You have no idea how hard it was for me to do that. There were even times I wondered if I could change it. But no, it had to be that way. I seriously cried every. single. time. I worked on that scene. That's very unusual for me.


Kendra Ardnek | 538 comments I was in denial until the last moment ... and then a few moments after that. But the story wouldn't have worked without it, I know, but!!! I loved the ending though. Very sweet.


Megan McCullough (alea_harper) | 59 comments First of all, I was grinning like a fool when William asked ️Kyrin if her and Jace were more than just friends. :D (Just remembering it I am grinning foolishly) I was crying at the beginning because I was back in Ilyon. I died when William died too. A lot.

Okay, I was so happy when there was a reference to one of my favorite lines by Prince Daniel about him being disowned. Seriously, I had to stop reading for a minute to get over it. I was also so happy that Kaden got a dragon! And the description there...oh my goodness I have to go back and reread that part right now. Seriously.

I am fangirling so hard right now thinking about TKS!!!!!!!!!!


Kendra Ardnek | 538 comments Yes, Kaden is, for certain, the tallest Crete who ever lived. He and his dragon are just so perfect!!! I was grinning so wildly when I found out they were going to get one!!


message 8: by Jaye (new)

Jaye Knight (jayelknight) | 382 comments Mod
All those scenes with Daniel were not in the original version. In writing book 4 over the summer (which has quite a lot with Daniel) it made me want to include him in TKS. So that was really fun. I can't believe some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth. :D If only he could have succeeded in helping William escape. :(


Megan McCullough (alea_harper) | 59 comments Jaye wrote: "All those scenes with Daniel were not in the original version. In writing book 4 over the summer (which has quite a lot with Daniel) it made me want to include him in TKS. So that was really fun. I..."

Then I am very excited about book 4 (and 3, 5, and 6


Faith (faithblum) | 55 comments Prince Daniel is in book 4?!?! I want it!!!

Okay. I really need to start rereading TKS because I don't remember a ton about it right now. But, a few things I will say is that, besides Jace, Liam is my favorite character. He was in Resistance to an extent, but now that we get to read more about him...Let's just say I like him. A lot. And I don't usually get super attached to characters like this.

I also loved the scene when William asked Kyrin if she and Jace were more than friends!

I could also totally sympathize with Jace when he rode the dragon. I would probably do the same thing or worse. :P


Jennifer Jungling | 9 comments I really enjoyed reading the pre-book and I can't wait for it to come out in the final. I have been so busy the last couple of months that I feel so out of the loop. Is the paper copy coming out at the same time as the digital release? I am really happy about the scenes with Daniel, he is a favorite alongside Kyrin, Jace and Kaden.


Kendra Ardnek | 538 comments I think I'd me more like Kaden when it comes to dragon riding - just get me into the air already!!!

But I do have a character who's also very scared of falling because of a traumatic childhood experience, and I think she was reading over my shoulder, because all the way through Jace's scenes in the beginning she was going "yep, yep, totally hear you" in my head. It was amusing. Poor Jace.


message 13: by Jaye (new)

Jaye Knight (jayelknight) | 382 comments Mod
If all goes according to plan, the paperback should be available the same day as the Kindle copy. I just got my first proof copy last week and I'm getting all the bugs worked out as far as the cover. That's always what takes the longest to get right, but I started working on it very early this time.


Claire Banschbach Looking forward to it! I loved getting an advanced copy but I want my paperback copy!! Or more specifically, my younger sisters want my paperback copy! They're so excited for TKS to come out!


message 15: by Jaye (new)

Jaye Knight (jayelknight) | 382 comments Mod
It's probably pretty obvious, but Timothy was heavily inspired by Timothy in the Bible. :)


Faith (faithblum) | 55 comments Jaye wrote: "It's probably pretty obvious, but Timothy was heavily inspired by Timothy in the Bible. :)"

Now that you mention it, I can see it. Wow. How did I not see that before?


Kendra Ardnek | 538 comments I'd kinda figured that, what with the name and all. But he's well done! I really liked him!


Shantelle | 62 comments Yes!! SO excited to read more about Prince Daniel in book 4!! :) :)

And I just want to say that I love Kyrin's brothers!!! Ah, I was bursting with pride and joy-mixed-with-fear when Liam finally decided to follow Elom. And Marcus!! What a relief! I can't even describe how beautiful it was to watch with Kyrin as all her brothers joined her in Landale. And her mother!

But William... *cries*. And the parts with poor Jace being beaten physically and emotionally!! Jaye, you definitely made me tear up a LOT!

Anyway, it was great, so great. Oh, and I loved meeting the Cretes! :) And the dragons!! I could almost squeal. It makes me think of How to Train Your Dragon, especially when the ferocious black beasts come in. Epic!


Ghost Ryter | 64 comments You know, I just realized something: In the Ilyon Chronicles there's no Christ figure. What I mean is, we have Elom, who is God, but so far there's been no reference to the Christ of this world. (This doesn't really fit on this thread, but I couldn't think of anywhere else to put it.)


Kendra Ardnek | 538 comments Ghost Ryter wrote: "You know, I just realized something: In the Ilyon Chronicles there's no Christ figure. What I mean is, we have Elom, who is God, but so far there's been no reference to the Christ of this world. (T..."

I've noticed that, too. I'm not sure the series really needs Him since it's more about persecution and ones relationship with God, but I wouldn't be against it should Jaye reveal one.


message 21: by Jaye (new)

Jaye Knight (jayelknight) | 382 comments Mod
Ghost Ryter wrote: "You know, I just realized something: In the Ilyon Chronicles there's no Christ figure. What I mean is, we have Elom, who is God, but so far there's been no reference to the Christ of this world. (T..."

There isn't . . . yet. ;)


message 22: by Ghost Ryter (last edited Feb 20, 2015 10:46AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ghost Ryter | 64 comments Jaye wrote: There isn't...yet. ;)
*intrigued*!! :D


message 23: by Jaye (new)

Jaye Knight (jayelknight) | 382 comments Mod
That's the thing with a series this long. There's plenty of time to cover a vast variety of subjects. :)


Shantelle | 62 comments Jaye wrote: "Ghost Ryter wrote: "You know, I just realized something: In the Ilyon Chronicles there's no Christ figure. What I mean is, we have Elom, who is God, but so far there's been no reference to the Chri..."

Ooh! :)


message 25: by Jaye (new)

Jaye Knight (jayelknight) | 382 comments Mod
Just for the record, I LOVE writing fathers/father figures (Edward James, Daniel McHenry, Halandor), and I think William was probably my favorite of all of them. So I was seriously pained to have to let him die. Even just about a month or two ago I had desperate wantings to change it but, sadly, it just had to happen. *heavy sigh* But now I really miss him. :'(

*grabs some of the chocolate from over in the Fireside Chat topic*


Grace (pearlmaiden) | 23 comments I wouldn't mind either way if there was or wasn't a Christ figure in the Ilyon Chronicles. In some ways, I get more of an OT parallel feeling when I read this series, but maybe that is just me.


Kendra Ardnek | 538 comments Grace wrote: "I wouldn't mind either way if there was or wasn't a Christ figure in the Ilyon Chronicles. In some ways, I get more of an OT parallel feeling when I read this series, but maybe that is just me."

Exactly - that's why I say it isn't completely necessary. I don't care either way, but it has to be done right if she does decide to include it. I'd be personally quite disappointed if it's just a repetition of Manien, and I know, as an author of such books myself, it's incredibly hard to keep every Christ figure unique, because they're all based on the same person.

Technically, this conversation goes in the new speculation thread, if you'd like to take it over there ...


H.S.J. Williams | 109 comments AUGHH!!!!!! I just saw the title and summary for your third book at the end of The King's Scrolls! AUGHH!!

I was so delighted and honored by your thanks for the beta readers and goodreads group!


Shantelle | 62 comments Hannah wrote: "AUGHH!!!!!! I just saw the title and summary for your third book at the end of The King's Scrolls! AUGHH!!

I was so delighted and honored by your thanks for the beta readers and goodreads group!"


Wait, where was this?? I didn't see that! I want to know what the third book is called!! :) :D


H.S.J. Williams | 109 comments Go to almost the very end, after all the descriptions of the races. Okay, since this is the spoiler board, and since it's been revealed in the book, and since I already blew it on another NON spoiler board...

It's "Samara's Pearl!" I'm so intrigued!


Kendra Ardnek | 538 comments Eep! I didn't read through all of the extra stuff, so I must have missed it (unless it wasn't in the ARC. What's the description? (You can post it on the Spec thread, since that's technically what it's for)


H.S.J. Williams | 109 comments It's not in the ARC, Kendra. There's also at least one new scene that's not the ARC!

Here's the summary for Samara's Pearl:

When an imminent threat rises against the country of Samara, those in Landale must face two desperate struggles--one on the walls of Samara's mighty stronghold and the other on the battlefield of Jace's heart where victory might only be achievable through great sacrifice.

(00)


Shantelle | 62 comments Hannah wrote: "It's not in the ARC, Kendra. There's also at least one new scene that's not the ARC!

Here's the summary for Samara's Pearl:

When an imminent threat rises against the country of Samara, those in L..."


OOH!!! I'm so intrigued!! Can't wait for Samara's Pearl!!! :) :)


Morgan | 340 comments It's Samara's Peril. What part of the book is the extra scene in?


Ghost Ryter | 64 comments Hannah wrote: "It's not in the ARC, Kendra. There's also at least one new scene that's not the ARC!

Here's the summary for Samara's Pearl:

When an imminent threat rises against the country of Samara, those in L..."

Oooo! But the part about Jace has me really worried...


H.S.J. Williams | 109 comments OH My GOODNESS GRACIOUS!

It IS Samara's PERIL. I'm can't believe I got it wrong; sorry, Jaye! There I go spreading false rumors *so embarrassed*


Shantelle | 62 comments Hannah wrote: "OH My GOODNESS GRACIOUS!

It IS Samara's PERIL. I'm can't believe I got it wrong; sorry, Jaye! There I go spreading false rumors *so embarrassed*"


Haha, it happens!! Samara's Peril. It sounds fascinating. And Jace! Oh dear!


message 38: by Jaye (new)

Jaye Knight (jayelknight) | 382 comments Mod
Don't worry, Hannah! :) And yes, that extra stuff isn't in the ARC. I was still working on the logline for Samara's Peril and the acknowledgements section. :)


Claire Banschbach Augh! There's an extra scene?!?! I'm about to go steal the book from my little sister and find it! jk!


Morgan | 340 comments Stargazer wrote: "I think 80% of dead characters in books are killed by the words "wouldn't have been realistic otherwise". It's FANTASY for crying out loud. *sigh* I'm alone in a world of character graves. :P (You'll notice character killing is like my biggest annoyance.)

Jaye wrote: "I AM SO SORRY!! I'm sure it makes no difference at all, but I actually cried (as in real tears and quiet sobs) every time I worked on the book. I hurt too. :( I wanted to change it! I really did! B..."

As a writer who has promised never to kill off any characters, and who has complete control over her stories, I'm afraid I don't understand. But I'm sorry it made you cry. :(
If I'm coming across as blunt here, I'm sorry, but being against character killing is like my deepest passion when it comes to fiction. :P
I finished TKS though! :D"


I hate when characters die too. And I hate irrevocable partings. But while I can't really accept it when it seems to be pointless, it is incredibly powerful when it has a reason. I have seen it where these irrevocable partings seem to be pointless. The King's Scrolls is exactly the opposite.

The first time I read about William's death, I first searched for a way for him not really to be dead. Jaye had done it in The Pirate Daughter's Promise with Daniel McHenry, why not with William Altair? But I had to realize he was really dead. It isn't as if it wasn't foreshadowed. I can think of two instances of foreshadowing in Resistance right off the top of my head. But I wanted to write Jaye a Facebook message demanding why she did that and how could she do that to her characters? Well, I didn't, because before I had the chance to write her the message I had discovered why. And there are so many reasons why.

God works everything together for good. That has been a theme of Jaye's books since the days of Pirates & Faith when a storm that caused trouble for Will, John, and Matthew was the storm that made it possible for Skye and Kate to escape from Francis Kelley. As Jaye's writing has matured, she has become more skilled in showing this truth, and it has become more powerful.

William's death is hard for the Altair family and will continue to be so. But without it, Marcus would never have had the opportunity to stand up to his grandfather and finally question his allegiance to the emperor. Nothing smaller would make him question. His father was willing to die for Elom. That has to mean something. Without William's death, both Marcus and Liam would still be under the General's thumb. Liam wouldn't have gotten away if Marcus had stayed. Michael and Ronny might not have been taken to Tarvin Hall, but if they hadn't, they and Lydia wouldn't have gotten to camp. The Altairs wouldn't be united on the side of the resistance, which could have untold consequences for all of Ilyon. Marcus is the first commander of the Landale militia, which is bound to have importance in the rest of the series. This is only book 2, after all. So it's not so much a case of it wouldn't be realistic without William's death as it is that William's death is the catalyst for basically everything that follows in the series. It's hard. I still hate that it had to happen. But it couldn't be otherwise. And I applaud Jaye for her ability to take her characters through terrible things and show Elom working it all together for good. It is so much more powerful to see the good things when they have been through so much. When you get down to the darkest, the light is so much brighter when it comes, just like how much better water tastes when you're parched.

Ilyon Chronicles is very powerful. I have always loved Narnia for its Christian message, but I've been affected even more by Ilyon. It could not possibly be so powerful without the terrible things. Yes, even William's death.

I know this post is incredibly long, and I doubt many, if any people will read the whole thing, but it even helped me to write through it all, I understand better now just how meaningful William's death is, however hard it may be.


Kendra Ardnek | 538 comments Morgan wrote: "Stargazer wrote: "I think 80% of dead characters in books are killed by the words "wouldn't have been realistic otherwise". It's FANTASY for crying out loud. *sigh* I'm alone in a world of characte..."

I second this, Morgan. William's death is the catalyst of the series, and it shows just how serious the emperor is. Indeed, I'd been about 75% sure that we were going to loose Trask at the end of Resistance. (That was before I realized he was Robin Hood, and therefore immortal.)

I hate dying character, too. I've killed a few, (though with the exception of a short story, I've not published any of these stories), but for the most part, I want my babies to live - I want the characters in the books I read to live.

(Indeed, I joke that I have the opposite problem - characters deciding to live after I declare them dead. Terribly frustrating, since I currently have a 114-year-old man who I'm not sure what I'm going to do with now ...)

I don't like senseless character deaths, but if they're necessary, I don't want them left out, either.


Stargazer R. L. | 555 comments Finally read through all that.
Okay. Here goes.

Can I start a Liam fangirling party? HE'S SO CUTE I LOVE HIM.

Grace wrote: "I wouldn't mind either way if there was or wasn't a Christ figure in the Ilyon Chronicles. In some ways, I get more of an OT parallel feeling when I read this series, but maybe that is just me."
I totally see it as Old Testament too...

Alea wrote: "First of all, I was grinning like a fool when William asked ️Kyrin if her and Jace were more than just friends. :D"
I know! I did it too. :D


Character killing is a very dangerous place to take me. I just put up my review, which has a lot of my opinions in it. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Morgan, you did a good job putting all the good things that came out of William's death together, but I could see many other ways it could have gone.


Also, Falcor. He came to Camp, so he knows where the Resistance is, even if he didn't have those beasty things. Why aren't they evacuating? Is this a plot-hole, or the characters being stupid so we can have a devastating slaughter in book 3?


Kendra Ardnek | 538 comments I'm not sure Falcor was ever at camp, since, if I remember right, the first time they met with him was AFTER they left and met up with the main group of the search party. It's an interesting point though ... Jaye! Explain!


Claire Banschbach My sisters and I were just discussing that same thing yesterday! But thinking over it now, Kendra, I think you're right. I'm in the process of re-reading the book now, but...Jaye! Explain! lol!


message 45: by Jaye (new)

Jaye Knight (jayelknight) | 382 comments Mod
Falcor did not come to camp, so you can rest easy. No plot hole. ;) The only ones who came to camp were Darq, Glynn, Timothy, Leetra, and an unnamed crete you probably remember as not being particularly friendly. Though I didn't write about it because it didn't seem entirely necessary, there were other cretes in Darq's group. Those who didn't meet up with everyone in the Valley, Darq sent back to Dorland with information on how their search was going.


Kendra Ardnek | 538 comments That's what I thought. I knew there were five, and I knew the identity of four of them, but wasn't certain of the third, but thought that if it was Falcor, you would have made mention of it. Thanks!


Morgan | 340 comments I just looked. They didn't meet up with Falcor until after they had searched the village of Keth for Josan and they didn't return to camp until after his betrayal, so he has no more idea where camp is than Daican, possibly even less. And I highly doubt Jaye would ever write a senseless slaughter.

I'm interested in seeing what other ways it could have gone than William's death, but I don't see them. Yes, it was horrible. I see in your review the stuff about Aric not killing Daican. I'm sure Daican had high security, and yes, Aric is head of it but there are more guards, so I doubt he would have succeeded had he tried and that would have ended in sacrificing even more lives. Just as Jace stopped Kaden from going off to kill the emperor because he would only succeed in getting himself killed. I suppose maybe it is partially because killing is wrong that no one took out Daican, but (and I've read TKS three times) I recall their reasons always being that there was no way they could succeed. It would only result in more good guys, including ones in crucial positions, getting killed and still having an evil emperor. I don't know if Jaye will kill off Daican. I kind of hope she does, as well as a few other villains, but the time hasn't come where it could actually be successful.

And there is even more to the for Marcus reason for William's death than his salvation, as important as it is. Without William's death, Marcus wouldn't have questioned the emperor. He wouldn't have left the army. He wouldn't have seen his siblings' side of the whole story. He wouldn't have become the man of the family. He wouldn't have started protecting his sibling instead of going against them. He wouldn't have been a part of camp. He wouldn't have become the captain of the Landale militia (and Landale wouldn't really have a militia either), and believe me, that's crucial.

I was going to take Sunday off from social media and here I am on this thread again :P, so I won't say any more now, but I did want to say these things.


Stargazer R. L. | 555 comments Jaye wrote: "Falcor did not come to camp, so you can rest easy. No plot hole. ;) The only ones who came to camp were Darq, Glynn, Timothy, Leetra, and an unnamed crete you probably remember as not being particu..."

Oh, okay, I didn't remember that. I feel better about that now.

@Morgan: Hmm. I feel like we could argue about this for a long time... Okay, about Aric killing Daican. Aric is the BOSS of his security, and when he was thinking about killing him, Aric was standing right in front of him. He could have done it easily.
Like I said, everything is working smoothly because William died, but there could have been other options. If he'd lived, he was going to talk to Liam. I bet he couldn't have gotten Liam to safety before Liam was suspected of stuff. If Liam and William had, say, confessed their beliefs at Fort Rivor, the General would have thrown a fit, Marcus would have seen, they could have talked, it could have gone like it did with Marcus, Kyrin, Liam, Jace, and Kaden.


Morgan | 340 comments We probably could argue about this forever. I personally would like to hear Jaye's opinion on your suggestions, though. :)


message 50: by Jaye (new)

Jaye Knight (jayelknight) | 382 comments Mod
Actually, in the palace when Aric still wanted to kill the emperor, if he had, I would consider that murder and revenge. I understand the fact that killing the emperor could save lives, but really, it's in God's hands. The only reason the emperor is still breathing is because God allows it. So for Aric to have killed him would feel like taking matters into his own hands, and that wouldn't sit well with me. But those are just my convictions on the subject.

As for Marcus, he never would have listened, even if his father talked to him. He would have had his father on one side and his grandfather on the other, and as he had done throughout his life, he would have ended up following his grandfather. He needed something much stronger, a jolt to everything he believed for all his life. And if Liam and William had confessed their beliefs at Fort Rivor, they would have been immediately arrested. I wouldn't put it past the General to have killed William right there with how much he always hated them. They probably never could have escaped that. And remember, in the beginning, Marcus was ready to let Kyrin and Kaden be taken to Valcré. It wasn't until his discussion with Liam that it fully sank in what was happening. So, if William had lived and made his faith known in Fort Rivor, I don't believe Marcus would have stepped in to stop him from being taken to Valcré for execution. He just wouldn't have had strong enough motivation to go against his own beliefs and sense of duty. That only came after he lost his father and faced the possibility of loosing Liam, Kyrin, and Kaden as well. It was that horrible prospect that finally broke him and opened his eyes.

That is my thought process, anyway. And, as Morgan mentioned, as a writer I like to write stories that show how God works even in life's darkest moments, so that was part of it as well. :)


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