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[2021] Poll 8 Voting
I read If I Was Your Girl for the Popsugar trans or nonbinary author prompt this year and I'm glad I did. I would never have found it for just a LGBTQIA+ prompt, since at least for me, LGB books are much more visible and accessible. TQIA+ books you really have to dig for and want to find them.
I'm against broadening the prompt to LGBTQIA+ but think changing it to TQIA+ or say "the second half of LGBTQAI+" would be nice.
The LAPL has a great list of "immigrants in fiction":https://www.lapl.org/collections-reso...
The immigrant book could also be historical such as the Outlander series.
Johanne wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Is anyone else having trouble accessing the LAPL website? I keep getting an error message when I click the link"I have no problem accessing, and I'm in Denmark, so your problem is n..."
Thanks, I've tried it again and it works now. It must've been down for a few minutes
I'm struggling with this bunch. The lists are difficult. 125 Choices is not enough for a group this large to choose from, imho. The 500 women list is old and bent toward classics. The Los Angeles one just bugs me having the "excluding....." piece on there. I prefer to have a list that I CAN choose from than a list that I can NOT use. I just looked through the last three years of the Millions lists and there was only 1 book on there that I recognized as something I have ever wanted to read and I have already read that. I don't think it's a list geared toward people like me who read mostly genre fiction, nonfiction and books from other countries.
I'm probably going to downvote all of them. I don't want to vote for a list prompt JUST to get a list prompt on the final challenge.
Sarah wrote: "Johanne wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Is anyone else having trouble accessing the LAPL website? I keep getting an error message when I click the link"I have no problem accessing, and I'm in Denmark, so y..."
You're welcome :)
Apologies, to anyone I offended by saying “close enough”. I thought intersex fell under the broader trans umbrella. And that was my own ignorance. Truly sorry. I like the “non-binary/trans/+ character or author”.
Not to be insensitive to LGB, but I did want to focus on these other forms of diversity as I feel they are sometimes overlooked in literature. If this is too narrow and doesn’t get in, we can submit a broader LGBTQIA+
Also, I 100% stole from Popsugar and this year’s prompt. The Popsugar introduced me to a lot of authors and stories that I don’t know I would have found. It was my favorite prompt of theirs this year.
As I mentioned earlier I struggled a bit with the prompt for PS, and that was more because of the restriction on it being an author. I haven't decided if I'll vote for it this year but I definitely won't downvote it. I like spelling it out rather than TQIA+ because while LGBTQIA+ is well known I think shortening it would confuse people (a la nom de plume).Also, can we change the wording of the space prompt to say "about or set in outer space" for the poll please? I don't want others to think it's non-fiction only.
Mod
I think it's a slippery slope for changing prompts after the suggestion round, and I'm in favor of leaving well enough alone.
I don't have a problem adjusting the wording to be clearer or closer to the original poster's intent, so I'm going to make the requested change to the year of the ox prompt.
The nonbinary/trans prompt is somewhat different because getting the wording right is about more than just clarity. The last thing I want is for anyone to feel uncomfortable about how a prompt addresses their identity. I want to get this wording right before we proceed to voting.
The prompt was "a book with a non-binary/trans character or author" and the idea was to push readers to seek out other parts of the LGBTQIA+ community when the most commonly discussed books have LGB characters/authors. (In my opinion) the best re-wording so far is:
"a book with a non-binary/trans/+ character or author"
As I said, I'm going to delay opening the poll to allow for more feedback about this prompt's wording. We want to get this correct. If you don't feel comfortable voicing your opinion here, please feel free to message me or one of the other mods privately.
I love lists so I'm happy to see a few of them this round. I think I will be voting for the Millions and NYPL. I agree that the 500 books by women list as a bit classic-centred and I feel like the LAPL one doesn't have much focus - I wouldn't know which of their lists to pick from! I definitely have options for both of those though so I would be ok if either of them make it.Other prompts I'm considering upvoting are:
Medical memoir
Deck of cards
Involving an immigrant
I think my downvotes will probably be outer space and pen name since I couldn't find any authors I was interested in when this came up last time.
Nancy wrote: "Ooh Cards Against Humanity could make for an interesting result..."That's right! Hadn't thought of them!
I will be upvoting LAPL and downvoting the NY one out of sheer regional pride :)
Jackie wrote: "(In my opinion) the best re-wording so far is: "a book with a non-binary/trans/+ character or author" As I said, I'm going to delay opening the poll to allow for more feedback about this prompt's wording."
I think this wording is both respectful and clear. I don't identify as LGBTQIA+ myself, though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt 😅
While we're talking about prompt wording, was a decision reached about the LAPL lists? The original prompt said to exclude the Best of the Year lists, but I saw a few requests (myself included) to open it up to include those lists too.
Jackie thanks for opening the wording up for feedback. Here are my preferences if you’re still looking for thoughts:Trans/non-binary prompt - add the “+” like proposed in comment 59 and okay’d by the original poster in comment 57
LAPL prompt - remove Best-of exclusion like the original poster said was okay in comment 23
Ox prompt - well I preferred the old one, as it’s now a prompt with two very different options - it wouldn’t have been an upvote for me anyways though so I’ll save this discussion for when the poll opens!
Agree with all the suggestions! With the ox prompt, I don't mind if it's too late to change it since I could always re-submit it; it seems like people are saying they wouldn't have voted for it anyway so I guess it doesn't matter either way :(
Irene wrote: "Agree with all the suggestions! With the ox prompt, I don't mind if it's too late to change it since I could always re-submit it; it seems like people are saying they wouldn't have voted for it any..."Eek sorry! I just prefer more general prompts like “related to an ox” over specific prompts. That’s just my personal preference though - probably should have just saved that comment for when the poll is set in stone haha. I’m sure it’s driving mods crazy to change the wording!
Don’t put too much weight on the few opinions expressed in these discussions - many more people vote, and outcomes often don’t match the discussion!
Mod
We don't mind using the discussion time in the voting thread to discuss rewording prompts that are unclear, too long, or otherwise needed (like with the nonbinary/trans/+ prompt), but we want to avoid editing prompts after the suggestion process is over if it will alter the prompt significantly.
Mod
I agree that non-binary/trans+ is the best phrasing of the prompt. I’d like to suggest that we move on to voting with the understanding that minor adjustments may need to be made if the moderators receive feedback. Language and vocabulary are ever evolving and the creator of this prompt clearly wants it to be inclusive of people who identify as non binary/trans/+.
Mod
The poll is now open for voting: https://www.surveymoz.com/s/MPNDIS/
Happy voting!
Chrissy wrote: "Don’t put too much weight on the few opinions expressed in these discussions - many more people vote, and outcomes often don’t match the discussion!"I would disagree with this comment just because, if not to discuss and offer opinions, then why have a discussion period at all? The "few" who discuss and brainstorm don't count at all? Ouch.
Voted. I wound up going with 7 upvotes and 1 downvote. That's unusual for me. I'm generally a little more even about the distribution of my votes.
Emily wrote: "We won't be editing the LAPL prompt to remove the exclusion, but if it doesn't make it in this round, it can be resubmitted without the exclusion (even if it is in the bottom) as it would be a diff..."It doesn't quite make sense to me that LAPL with the excluded lists and LAPL without them would count as different enough to warrant being completely different prompts. It's still essentially choosing from the same page, so I don't really see why that's different? That's only really relevant if it's in the bottom I guess though, although for me, not having the excluded lists might affect my voting. I'll have to look again and see what's on the non-Best Of lists.
In terms of the ox prompt, the current wording still confuses me because it seems like two entirely separate options mixed together. Of the two, I like the "bullheaded" character version more, but I don't know if I'd vote for it in this iteration. (And that's not meant in any way as a criticism of the prompt or idea, I just think it would make sense as just one of the two options).
Chrissy, I get what you mean about not putting too much weight on the opinions expressed, since I wouldn't want anyone to get discouraged by a prompt seeming unpopular in the discussion. But, I have to agree with Amy that I think it's important to allow prompts to be discussed and reworded/clarified if needed. Even if it's not everyone participating in the discussion, if someone takes the time to post a question or comment, I think it's worth considering. If nothing else, it can help with brainstorming or workshopping future ideas if we know what people liked or didn't like, or understood/didn't understand from the way something was wording.
Yeah I totally get there were a lot of opinions pre-poll about wording and that’s a lot to weigh and think about, and totally agree with the slippery slope. Jackie had posted that she was waiting for feedback so I took the opportunity to leave mine! I just was pointing out that the original prompt was more had a character related to a working/domesticated animal, vs. now it’s either about a farm animal or a bullheaded character... which is two entirely different things AND two things unrelated to the original suggestion in my mind. I would love something related to year of the Ox but this still seems like still a work-in-progress - that’s all!
I love that this is an open space for discussion, and hearing feedback is always great, especially since no one in this group is ever mean about why they didn’t vote for something ^^ Thanks mods for being so thoughtful and on top of things!! You guys are great!!
@Avery, I get what you mean! In my mind, it’s not two unrelated things because it’s basically choosing either a literal or metaphorical interpretations of “Ox” - a literal farm animal, or a character that has the traits of an ox. But I totally get why it might seem random! I guess I don’t mind when prompts have more than one way to interpret them. I like that the 3-week prompt has a ton of options, like reading a book from the pov of a child, young adult, and older adult OR going by words in the title, or a bunch of other options.
Irene... I love the way you worded it there - literal or metaphorical interpretation!! Ahhh I’m a bit of a stickler for wording (and I know there are a bunch of others who are too), but it just wasn’t intuitive (to me at least) to think about it that way. Now that you phrase it that way, I get what you’re thinking. Well if it doesn’t get through, I’d love to workshop the phrasing more with you!
I personally would be okay with either a prompt about a farm animal or a prompt about an ox but together I just think it's unusual and not clear enough for me to love it.
Emily wrote: "I was thinking the same thing about the enby/trans prompt, even as I was suggesting books (because intersex is something completely different than enby and trans, and I agree that "close enough" do..."
i think the most common umbrella phrase for all non-cis people is trans, nonbinary & gnc (gender non-conforming). nonbinary covers labels like genderqueer & genderfluid and gnc covers intersex. i am personally not a fan of saying 'the second half of LGBTQIA+' for a future prompt. it feels really invalidating to have have the entire ace & aro spectrum and pansexuality lumped in with the trans, nonbinary & gnc community. i know it's because people wanted to highlight lesser represented identities but i'd rather the prompt be phrased to be something around that.
i think the most common umbrella phrase for all non-cis people is trans, nonbinary & gnc (gender non-conforming). nonbinary covers labels like genderqueer & genderfluid and gnc covers intersex. i am personally not a fan of saying 'the second half of LGBTQIA+' for a future prompt. it feels really invalidating to have have the entire ace & aro spectrum and pansexuality lumped in with the trans, nonbinary & gnc community. i know it's because people wanted to highlight lesser represented identities but i'd rather the prompt be phrased to be something around that.
I was of course not suggesting that discussion isn’t useful! Just hat someone who suggests a prompt shouldn’t assume nobody likes it just because a couple people say they won’t vote for it!
Chrissy wrote: "I was of course not suggesting that discussion isn’t useful! Just hat someone who suggests a prompt shouldn’t assume nobody likes it just because a couple people say they won’t vote for it!"For sure! That always seems to be a theme with this group, since there's always such a "silent majority." I tend to find that the results have been matching up decently with the discussions this year though so far, which hasn't always been the case.
This round in particular, it seemed like there were a lot of prompts that needed discussion/slight reworking. It's a bit unusual to see so many requests for prompts to be rephrased in a single poll, at least as far as I can remember.
Totally agree that people shouldn't get discouraged though! I think Irene is right that people generally aren't mean or rude about sharing their reasons for not voting for something, and I personally find it very helpful to know what people like or don't like on the off-chance I can think of a suggestion of my own at some point.
Emily wrote: "it can be resubmitted without the exclusion (even if it is in the bottom)..."Thanks for letting us know, I wasn't sure if this would be the case.
annie wrote: "i think the most common umbrella phrase for all non-cis people is trans, nonbinary & gnc (gender non-conforming). nonbinary covers labels like genderqueer & genderfluid and gnc covers intersex."So that would have been our solution right there: "non-cis" :D Never thought of it.
I voted, too, this time with three downvotes (two of the lists and the medical memoir, sorry folks) and five upvotes: the APL and NYPL lists, pen name, deck or cards, and enby/trans/+ prompts. I didn't mind that PopSugar had a similar prompt this year; I also read If I Was Your Girl for that one and loved it; recommend it to anyone looking to fill our potential prompt if it gets in!
There has been some variant of an LGBTQIA+ prompt every year in at least one of my challenges, and I have also found myself usually filling those with the LGB portion only, simply because it was much easier to find books. It's really about time to change that and I'm looking forward to it :) I read Seven Ways We Lie for the seven deadly sins prompt this year, and it has both a pansexual and an asexual character, for instance. Also, the Magnus Chase series by Rick Riordan has a genderfluid character.
I ended up downvoting two of the lists, 500 books by women and the NYPL one (not a bad list, but only 5 I haven't read that I realistically might want to, I like having more options).Voted for deck of cards, trans/nb, The Millions list, medical memoir, element of magic and immigrant. I liked the epic prompt too but ran out of votes.
I have 2 upvotes and 2 downvotes just by reading the suggestions...now to research a bit more for the others.
Chrissy- That is very true! It’s easy to think that the vocal members represent everyone’s opinions but we often see in the results that it’s not the case. Last year was a good example with a few of the bottom votes.I wasn’t going to do it but I voted for the Millions list, despite not typically liking list prompts. I remember it being suggested in a previous year and the list looked promising. My problem w some lists is I feel like I’ve read most everything on them that I want to read. I’m more interested in a list of books I’m not familiar with, otherwise why do I need a list?
This is the first poll where I'm running into trouble with voting! I have eight prompts I want to upvote and at least two I want to downvote. Going to have to take some time with this one.
Lots of great prompts this round. I ended up with 7 upvotes and 1 downvote. Could easily have found 10 or more to up vote. That said, I am still looking for some genre prompts!
I upvoted 1 and downvoted 7. Sorry. Most of these just have waaaay too many options, or too few, or they are almost the exact same as other prompts from either this list or Popsugar the last few years.
I think it's a slippery slope for changing prompts after the suggestion round, and I'm in favor of leaving well enough alone.I don't have a problem adjusting the wording to be clearer or closer to the original poster's intent, so I'm going to make the requested change to the year of the ox prompt.
I must say I agree it's not a great idea to change prompts after the suggestion round. I seconded the original wording of this prompt, but I wouldn't have seconded the new version. The prompt that I seconded focused on domesticated animals, which would include pets. Now it's only farm animals plus something about an ox-like protagonist which was not there at all before. I feel it's changed completely, it is not the prompt that I seconded, and I will vote against it now.
I enjoyed this group of prompts, upvoted 7 and downvoted one (cards). I like the idea of deck of cards but feel like it's way too broad as written--even just a tarot deck can get you basically any book, without adding the whole world of cards. It will be fun to read other people's connections to weird cards, though, so I won't complain if it's included. It does seem like there's some conflict between folks who like to hunt for new books based on the prompts and those who want to hunt for ways to fit the prompts to books they will read anyway--it's hard to find goldilocks prompts for both types, although the KIS/BIO discussions certainly help, but it seems like that's probably why the list ends up being so interesting.
"Voting will open on Thursday, August 13 and results will be posted on Monday, August 18. "I'm always super impatient since I just voted. I went to look up when the results will be posted but am a bit confused as to which day is results day. Are the results going to be posted on Monday the 17th or Tuesday the 18th?
Jillian wrote: ""Voting will open on Thursday, August 13 and results will be posted on Monday, August 18. "I'm always super impatient since I just voted. I went to look up when the results will be posted but am..."
According to the schedule in the Introduction, Schedule, & FAQs thread, it will be Monday, August 17.
I went with 3 up and 5 down this time. My upvotes were non-binary, space, and elements of magic.For downvotes, I picked medical memoir because I'm not a non-fiction fan, the NYPL list and 500 Great Books by Women list because I've already read the majority of the books on both that I wanted to read, the LA list because I'd prefer allowing the Best of Lists and found surprisingly few books that I was really excited about with those excluded, and the ox one just because I feel the current wording is too confusing, and encompasses two completely separate things.
Mod
Rosemary wrote: "I think it's a slippery slope for changing prompts after the suggestion round, and I'm in favor of leaving well enough alone.I don't have a problem adjusting the wording to be clearer or closer to..."
Sorry to hear that, Rosemary!! I really appreciate your comment since I was so grateful that you seconded it in the first place!
It was meant to be reworded to sound more concise instead of saying both domesticated AND farm animals. It shouldn't change the original meaning too much since farm animals can include any animal commonly found on a farm, including cats (barn cats), dogs (like shepherds, herding, and working dogs), birds, rabbits, etc.
And another clarification - the second part is an "or," not an "and". Rather than a book about a farm animal AND a person with ox-like traits, it's the option to read a book about an animal OR a person, for added flexibility. Since it's for the Year of the Ox, the options are to take it literally (read about a farm/working animal) or to take it metaphorically (someone who has ox-like traits like being hardworking).
Can I ask what book(s) you were thinking of doing originally when you seconded the prompt? I'd love to re-submit this one if it doesn't get voted through so feedback would be greatly appreciated!
Irene wrote: "Can I ask what book(s) you were thinking of doing originally when you seconded the prompt? I'd love to re-submit this one if it doesn't get voted through so feedback would be greatly appreciated! "Thank you for asking, Irene!
I wasn't thinking of a particular book. I just liked the idea of an animal-themed prompt. But to take an example of a book I have already read: The Cat Who Could Read Backwards would have fitted the original prompt, because the cat in the book is a domesticated animal. And it's true that cats can live on farms, but this cat lives in an apartment building so it is not a farm animal, and this kind of book wouldn't fit the new prompt, in my opinion.
I understand the difference between "and" and "or". My point was that the section about an ox-like protagonist was completely new and not part of the prompt that I seconded at all. So one option was narrowed down (pets and farm animals becomes farm animals only) and another completely new option was added.
I do see that the new prompt is more closely related to the Year of the Ox (except that unfortunately it doesn't mention the Year of the Ox - I'm guessing that was a mistake and not your intention). So maybe it is better from that point of view. It just wasn't what I seconded, and it seemed like a major change at a very late point in the process.
ETA:
In case anyone is wondering, this is the prompt that I seconded:
"A book featuring a character closely associated with domesticated or farm animals in honor of 2021, the Chinese Year of the Ox."
This is the prompt that was in the surveymoz vote:
"A book about a farm animal, or a protagonist whose characteristics resemble an ox."
@Rosemary, I totally understand what you’re saying. For me, a dog or cat (like Marley and Me) would count no matter what since they’re still animals that are commonly found on farms. So I would count a horse that lives on castle grounds in a fantasy book, and owl that lives in the forest, and a cow/chicken/pig that’s raised in an industrial setting.I’ll definitely keep in mind that adding another option is a no-no for some people- I didn’t realize it bothered people to be given another option in addition to the first one, but I’ll know it going forward! Thanks again for the feedback!
Around the Year in 52 Books
Books mentioned in this topic
The Cat Who Could Read Backwards (other topics)Seven Ways We Lie (other topics)
If I Was Your Girl (other topics)
If I Was Your Girl (other topics)
We Ride Upon Sticks (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Yoon Ha Lee (other topics)Mason Deaver (other topics)
Rin Chupeco (other topics)
Rivers Solomon (other topics)
Zeyn Joukhadar (other topics)
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1. A book about outer space
4. A book with a non-binary/trans character or author
6. A medical memoir
7. A book involving an immigrant
While I am one of those who loves to read from a list, I'm not in love with any of the choices this round. I feel like they're either too restrictive or too open. I've read 51 books already from the NYPL list and there are only 2 or 3 that I have left on my tbr. The Million's list and Los Angeles library ones probably have lots of books I want to read but the idea of looking through a ton of different lists to even start narrowing down a book isn't really something I like to do.
Edited to add: actually after looking at The Million's some more, I realized the lists are not as long as I was thinking and I can just look at the covers at the beginning of the post instead of scrolling a long list, so I've changed my mind on downvoting that one.