Dresden Files discussion

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Peace talks spoiler discussion

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message 1: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments I finished the book yesterday night and feel the urge to discuss the events, to keep the other thread spoiler free, I’m creating this thread instead.

So everybody will know sic sunt spoilers











In general I didn’t feel this was Jim’s greatest work, but then it’s only half a book and I wait for final judgement till I have read battle ground. But there are a couple of points I found interesting about this one.

1) queen man gets quite roughly treated, which is going to severely endangers her standing in the supernatural world, and we are seeing the unseelie accords in the process of breaking.

2) the Events around Thomas attack on Etri are highly suspicious, everybody is jumping to the conclusion that there is a threat against Justine ? I’m feeling this is a red herring in the making, he might have been actually acting to save somebody else, afterall family is the heavily used theme of the book. The sudden heavy reliance of Lara on her contractor feels wrong to me.

3) the Special prisoner in stasis is mentioned again in a half sentence, making his importance all the clearer. My pet theory of this being Arthur king of Britain is still in play.

4) Harrys membership in the white council is voted on, again. I felt this was getting repetitive.

5) I was annoyed by repetitive phrases like Harry multiple times musing on ghouls in exactly the same words. I understand that Jim tries to drive home the point that Harry and Ebenezar are so very similar.

6) Harry throws down with the Blackstaff and loses as expected.


message 2: by Caryl (last edited Jul 16, 2020 01:31PM) (new)

Caryl Huffstetler | 90 comments About 4: I feel like Peabody's influence went further back in time than anyone realized. There really is no reason that the Sr. Council should ALWAYS take the negative view of what Harry has done.
Has everyone seen Harry's Warden File from the fandom? That interpretation makes Harry look scary indeed.

However, if the Sr. Council KNOW he's Starborn and the power that gives him over Outsiders at a time when Outsiders are being called in to challenge our reality, why aren't they doing everything they can to WIN his loyalty and recruit him to Support the White Council? Seems counter intuitive to treat him the way they have. The only reason they wouldn't try to be nicer to him is if they believe he's the one pulling Outsiders into the mortal world. Which is, IMO, foolish given his actions against said Outsiders and their minions.

Why would Morgan or any member of the White Council think he should have been destroyed as a teen? It was clear he only acted in self-defense even to the Council. Are they so afraid of the power of a Starborn that they just assume all Starborn become warlocks?

If that's the case, it kills the theory of Rashid also being Starborn.

Even though he was the spark that started the final war with the Red Court, he was also the nexus of their destruction.

All of this to say that the White Council will have to both defeat the 'Black Council' AND reorganize itself significantly if it's going to survive in any fashion.

And on a connected line of reasoning; River Shoulders' comments about Listens to Wind nearing the end of his time and other 'good wizards' also nearing their ends could be foreshadowing for I know not what. But major changes in the supernatural world for certain.


message 3: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments The nearing the end of their time, I read as the thought that many might die during the remainder of the series. The way McCoy was described multiple times during the fight themes made me think of a dying man.

This goes with another pet theory of mine, that Harry needs some information in the diaries McCoy keeps. The line all the way back to Merlin is just too obvious to be ignored.


message 4: by Monica, White Council (new)

Monica T. Rodriguez (monicatrodriguez) | 374 comments Mod
Caryl, I think to completely understand the White Council and how they behave toward Harry, we have to think of them as a political entity. And above all else, political entities are concerned with Power.

I agree, they likely all knew Harry was the Starborn. Which meant he'd always have more power than they could ever have regardless of their personal accumulation of power, because he could do something they never could. Just like short sighted mortal politicians, the wizards of the White Council see his having greater power than them as a threat. They can't take away his ability to tangle with Outsiders. But they can eliminate it.

That sounds self-defeating, right? But most of the wizards probably think an outright war with the Outsiders is unlikely. And if it happens, and the Council fights as one, they could likely beat them, they assume. They wouldn't necessarily need Harry. They are arrogant enough to believe this. And to believe their positions are safer without him.

For those more skeptical, they spread the idea that he's dangerous, which isn't hard to do.

Merlin especially is focused on maintaining his hold on power and his position in the Council. You could say it's the source of his vitriol and hatred of Harry. He sees him as his greatest threat.

The only one, aside from Ebenezer, who has consistently been on Harry's side has been Rashid. Who regularly fights Outsiders. He may or may not have traveled into the future. But he knows the threat they face better than anyone. Enough to set aside politics.

This is one possible explanation. Might not be right. But I think it's possible.


message 5: by Nicole (new)

Nicole Re: 2. I had a working theory that Justine was the person behind the Thomas/Etri problem. Harry assumed that he was trying to say Justine's name to ask to take care of her, but he could be blaming her, instead. There were a few moments when Harry talked about how smart Justine was, and it all looked like setup to me.


message 6: by Caryl (new)

Caryl Huffstetler | 90 comments Monica wrote: "Caryl, I think to completely understand the White Council and how they behave toward Harry, we have to think of them as a political entity. And above all else, political entities are concerned with..."

Since arrogance seems to be a character flaw consistently seen in wizards, even our generally self deprecating Harry, I'm going to embrace your explanation. Also because the White Council's arrogance against 'minor' practitioners is, I believe, going to be proved to be a flaw as the Paranet membership prove useful in the upcoming fight, even in the blackout.


Sarah ~Goddessofthestory~ (goddessofthestory) Nicole wrote: "Re: 2. I had a working theory that Justine was the person behind the Thomas/Etri problem. Harry assumed that he was trying to say Justine's name to ask to take care of her, but he could be blaming ..."

I thought that same thing. When someone is potentially dying and trying to send a message... you send a message of who killed you. I don't know I just thought that she had more to do with the situation. She did not feel like a target or a victim in this.


message 8: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments Not to draw this discussion to a seedier level, but given Thomas problems with touching his in true love, how did they end up having a baby? Based on what Thomas said this was not planned, I think the baby is a twist all in itself.


message 9: by Monica, White Council (new)

Monica T. Rodriguez (monicatrodriguez) | 374 comments Mod
Caryl wrote: "...because the White Council's arrogance against 'minor' practitioners is, I believe, going to be proved to be a flaw as the Paranet membership prove useful in the upcoming fight, even in the blackout."

Nice point, Caryl! That does indeed seem likely. After all, Jim has consistently said he doesn't create anything he doesn't intend to use, And he regularly mentions the Paranet, so we never quite forget them.


message 10: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments I think the paranet has already amply demonstrated its use in cold days, as the events in battle ground shape up to be one a major slug fest, I’m not so sure the low talents will be able to provide a lot of help. Their major advantage is their. Numbers and the ability to communicate fast, to exchange information. And in the Information Age that equals power. But the upcoming struggle is likely going to be resolved with the more expression of power.


message 11: by Monica, White Council (new)

Monica T. Rodriguez (monicatrodriguez) | 374 comments Mod
Christian wrote: "Not to draw this discussion to a seedier level, but given Thomas problems with touching his in true love, how did they end up having a baby? Based on what Thomas said this was not planned, I think ..."

Yes, JB kept Harry busy enough with the next oncoming catastrophe that there was never enough time for him to consider either Justine's potential involvement or how the baby came to be. Although, at the end of Ghost Story, Harry saw Justine bring a 'friend' with her to Thomas's place and that was supposed to break that spell, so I think that might be the explanation there.


message 12: by Monica, White Council (new)

Monica T. Rodriguez (monicatrodriguez) | 374 comments Mod
In Harry's conversation with Ebenezer (was it with him? I listened to the audiobook in 2 days, so some details are a bit of a blur), he was told most women don't survive giving birth to a Starborn child. Could that be what killed Harry's mother, instead of Lord Raith? Or am I assuming it was Raith? Perhaps it was never explicitly stated. That would lend credence to the idea that everyone knew what Harry was, but wouldn't tell him.


message 13: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments @Monica, I will need to look into the book again to be sure this wasn’t also in the starborn part, but the 50% mortality rate was on mothers bearing white court children.


message 14: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments Ebooks are a fine thing to search for keywords. Starborn is only used in chapter 12 where Ebenezar tells Harry about it.
Harry and Thomas conversation is right in the first chapter.


message 15: by Alexis (new)

Alexis | 21 comments Christian wrote: "The nearing the end of their time, I read as the thought that many might die during the remainder of the series. The way McCoy was described multiple times during the fight themes made me think of ..."

I agree. That's got to start coming into it.

In general, I'm reserving judgement until Battleground. That being said, I did like some of the things that Butcher spent some time hashing out here. I thought the themes of loyalty and family were great. I loved the interaction between Harry and McCoy.

The end felt a little bit like, "BOOM, new bad guy," but I love the idea that the secrecy of the magical world by large has now entered the stakes, because I think that will make the next book very interesting. I think that's going to intersect with the still hanging crisis of Harry and Murphy's legal issues in a great way.


message 16: by Alexis (last edited Jul 20, 2020 03:20PM) (new)

Alexis | 21 comments Okay, so here's some food for thought...

We know that Harry's mother could trend towards conniving. At the very least, she had a lot to do with Winter (hence her dealings with Lea), who are tasked with guarding the gates against the Outsiders. So, do we think she knew about the whole starborn timing? If so, was Harry conceived at that time on purpose? Was Maggie maybe dropped a little information from Winter? Was there some maneuvering and influence going on? Because a little manipulation in order to get a line on the "once in 660 year" child able to really take the fight to the Outsiders, that's exactly Mab's style.

Also, we have now found out that Mab's past intersects with Merlin in a very personal way, and that's got to be interesting when we starting thinking about those diaries on McCoy's shelf and how everything starts tying together.


message 17: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments @Alexis, that is a very interesting thought, I’m not sure if I would go so far as suspecting Maggie the elder directly, but with Mab I can believe in a long time plan, it’s actually much harder for me to believe in Mab and a spur of the moment decision.

While I was typing this another harebrained idea hit me, there are a lot of Margaret’s in Harry’s life, there are of course his mom and his daughter, but butcher takes the time to spell out Margaret Katherine Amanda Carpenter (and doing only so for the second time in the series). I just hope Jim is lazy with first names.


message 18: by Caryl (last edited Jul 21, 2020 12:59PM) (new)

Caryl Huffstetler | 90 comments Christian wrote: "@Alexis, that is a very interesting thought, I’m not sure if I would go so far as suspecting Maggie the elder directly, but with Mab I can believe in a long time plan, it’s actually much harder for..."

See final paragraph: Ominous foreboding triggered.


message 19: by Darkcain11, Merlin (new)

Darkcain11 | 324 comments Mod
Based on topic 2) Goodman Grey even referenced Justine as a Fem Fatale. It could be that Justine is being held somewhere else. It will play a part in Battleground.


message 20: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments @darkcain11. I‘m just not so sure that the threat was against Justine, on strictly a gut feeling I was wondering if perhaps Lara is the threatened one, and the new Valkyrie character is intact her handler/captor and not as much her trouble shooter. Something in that relationship doesn’t feel right


message 21: by Darkcain11, Merlin (last edited Jul 21, 2020 04:47PM) (new)

Darkcain11 | 324 comments Mod
I saw that theory earlier in the comments. So let's say there was a 12 hour period where Thomas was blackmailed. id say Thomas left Harrys at 10ish and attacked the compound at 9 or 10 that night.
I'm assuming The Fomor forced Thomas's hand to divert attention from their movements before the peace talks. Could the fomor have turned im calling laras body guard F-Gard


message 22: by palu (new)

palu (clocklungs) | 10 comments 3) the Special prisoner in stasis is mentioned again in a half sentence, making his importance all the clearer.

When imprisoning Thomas, Harry things through and remembers only 1 prisoner who is in the "Contemplation" mode cell. He then instructs Alfred to cut him off from communication with anyone not in the same confinement mode. There's just no way that doesn't lead to the unknown prisoner introduced in Skin Game communicating with Thomas.


message 23: by palu (new)

palu (clocklungs) | 10 comments Does anyone know what historical/religious/mythological item the athame is supposed to be? Harry describes it thus:

"An athame is a magical tool-- think magic wand, but in the form of a knife. They're powerful tools for ritual magic.
I had one locked up in the island's armory. I'd stolen it from the God of the Underworld, from the same shelf as the Shroud and the Crown of Throns. If it truly was what I was pretty sure it was, then using it was going to put me in a long-term pickle."

-- Peace Talks, Chapter 35

No long-term-pickle mythological knives are springing to mind.


message 24: by Jeanie (new)

Jeanie | 110 comments At first I was appalled at the thought of Justine being the cause of Thomas' betrayal, but it makes sense after thinking about it. Could it be that the Feds who were watching Justine according to Goodman gray have coerced her into coercing Thomas? Or was she the one who first approached the Feds with a plan to overthrow the paranormal world--White Court Vampires or other supernatural group? We have been told frequently that Justine is far more intelligent than she appears or that people suspect. And I'm now wondering why Butcher gave her the feminine name of the wizard Harry killed, Justin.


message 25: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments Wenn it came to the name Justine my first association was the book by the marquis de Sade, portraying a victim. And that is how she was initially portrayed, as a victim of a very charismatic sex vampire. I’m not sure if she is actually portrayed as dangerously intelligent, but Sheba’s become very smart in dealing with supernatural predators.

The presence of the feds is one of the bigger question marks in the situation. Is this the regular bureau around agent Tilly or do we see somebody more in the line with the hexenwulfs.


message 26: by Nicole (new)

Nicole Jim Butcher has said that the tape with the werewolf recordings on it is still around, so maybe we're seeing some consequence of that.


message 27: by Caryl (new)

Caryl Huffstetler | 90 comments Jeanie wrote: "At first I was appalled at the thought of Justine being the cause of Thomas' betrayal, but it makes sense after thinking about it. Could it be that the Feds who were watching Justine according to G..."

Justine also had severe mental issues before she became involved with Thomas -Grave Peril, in the basement-


message 28: by Caryl (new)

Caryl Huffstetler | 90 comments Nicole wrote: "Jim Butcher has said that the tape with the werewolf recordings on it is still around, so maybe we're seeing some consequence of that."

Perhaps the FBI made that tape disappear. Rogue agents aren't good for the bureau's image after all. Plus, how did those agents transform into wolves, kill civilians AND kidnap an alleged crime kingpin? -Remember nothing has ever been proved against 'the Gentleman'- sounds like a job for Scully and Mulder. So, they'd better create a x-files department. Right?!


message 29: by Jeanie (new)

Jeanie | 110 comments Caryl wrote: "Nicole wrote: "Jim Butcher has said that the tape with the werewolf recordings on it is still around, so maybe we're seeing some consequence of that."

Perhaps the FBI made that tape disappear. Rog..."


We know that Chicago had a police squad dedicated to "inexplicable" events--notwithstanding it had its share of skeptics--long before Harry came on the scene, so it makes sense that the Feds would have its own department to investigate those kinds of things, too. And I'm sure that the feds tasked with tracking Maarcone's organized crime activities can't help but notice the, uhm, interesting things going on around him. Plus, it's hard to believe they aren't tracking the info out there on the Paranet... yep, they'd have hacked that puppy a soon as it organized.

The only really odd thing is that the Feds haven't been in play more often in these events. And once ethniu spotlights the paranormal activity in Chicago...


message 30: by Monica, White Council (new)

Monica T. Rodriguez (monicatrodriguez) | 374 comments Mod
palu wrote: "An athame is a magical tool-- think magic wand, but in the form of a knife. They're powerful tools for ritual magic."

In case this helps anyone pondering this, Wiki says:

An athame is a ceremonial blade, generally with a black handle... The athame stands as one of the four elemental tools in modern occultism... The other three elemental tools are the wand, the pentacle, and the cup or chalice. These four magical tools correspond to four "weapons" of significance in Celtic myth—the sword, the spear, the shield, and the cauldron (and/or grail). The athame is an elemental tool, while the sword is often a tool representing power, used to keep Spirits in check during goetic Evocation.
The athame's primary use is to channel and direct psychic energy, generally conceived as etheric fire.

Maybe this help someone come up with ideas for how Harry might use this? It doesn't really say anything about what trouble it might bring him in the long term. I did think the point about it being used to channel psychic energy was interesting.


message 31: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments Concerning the word Athame, Jim has only used it once before, referring in proven guilty to the dagger given to Lea by Bianca in grave peril.

He might just enjoyed having learned a new term, but the particular use in this book struck a chord.


message 32: by Monica, White Council (new)

Monica T. Rodriguez (monicatrodriguez) | 374 comments Mod
I agree. And Jim rarely uses words carelessly. But I'm not sure what he's going for here.


message 33: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments Just as a thought the last athame was given as an attempt to seriously disrupt the winter court, admittedly this time we can likely exclude nemesis as involved. But this might still be taken that there is going to be a shift in power to happen. After all Mab didn’t look to good against the Titan.


message 34: by Caryl (new)

Caryl Huffstetler | 90 comments Christian wrote: "Just as a thought the last athame was given as an attempt to seriously disrupt the winter court, admittedly this time we can likely exclude nemesis as involved. But this might still be taken that t..."

She, Mab, also appeared to be a little jealous of Harry's 'dalliance' -her word- with Murphy. Or it could have been she didn't like Lara's typically sexual undertones in reference to Harry. My Gosh, she even warned Lara off of 'taking a bite' out of Harry. Where can THAT be heading?


message 35: by Aaron (new)

Aaron | 5 comments Regarding the athame, I think what has me a little perplexed is most of the relics Jim spends enough time on to mention specifically are identifiable as capital “R” Relics in modern religion, mythology, and folklore. He’s been heavy on the Judeo-Christian front thus far, but not being able to place the athame threw me off as well.


message 36: by Monica, White Council (new)

Monica T. Rodriguez (monicatrodriguez) | 374 comments Mod
Caryl, on Mab's warning to Lara, I took that as "don't damage my goods/property" sort of thing. Jealousy is an interesting take - a very interesting take. I plan to reread it next month so I'll be looking for hints in that regard.


message 37: by Caryl (last edited Jul 31, 2020 08:37AM) (new)

Caryl Huffstetler | 90 comments Monica wrote: "Caryl, on Mab's warning to Lara, I took that as "don't damage my goods/property" sort of thing. Jealousy is an interesting take - a very interesting take. I plan to reread it next month so I'll be ..."

The conversation is ambiguous enough to go leave room for speculation, certainly.
I also wonder why she/Mab keeps 'loaning' Harry out? First to Nicodemus -well, we now, sort of, KNOW her ulterior motives there. Though we don't know if she's entirely pleased with Harry's results. She was all dressed in black when he spoke with her in Marcone's office.-

Then to Lara. If she wanted him as her knight so badly, shouldn't she be a little less cavalier with his services?

But Mab plays the long game, she has plans within plans, as evidenced by Molly.


message 38: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments Mab keeps on loaning out Harry because that is how she pays back favors loaned to her, after all Mab is always good for her word and pays every debt. If people are stupid enough to allow her by paying with Harry’s services, they have not specified their needs sufficiently or their goals align with Mab‘s so that she is taking care of keeping him on target.


message 39: by Aaron (new)

Aaron | 5 comments @Christian-

I’ve always thought part of it was to continuously put Harry in positions to erode his morals, until he’s willing to fully accept the mantle of the Winter Knight. Unlike Harry himself, she’s likely fully aware of what it would mean to have a Starborn completely under her control as the battle versus the Outsiders nears a fever pitch. Additionally, it serves to hone his abilities in the harshest of crucibles.


message 40: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments @Aaron

Im not disagreeing about the advantages of having a starborn knight to Mab, but to her great dismay she has primarily a stubborn knight.

If I remember correctly it’s in small favors when Harry is musing about Nicodemus and his strategy tree with multiple paths to desirable outcomes. I think he is later measuring Mab against the same pattern, only to come up with the conclusion that it is even more true in her case.

Wearing Harry’s morals down might be one of her paths, but I don’t think it’s a goal in itself. With Harry the corruption has a much better chance if it comes in terms of power. Harry might not be fully aware of this, but he has never enough power to do what feels right to him. It’s one of the reasons he is constantly fighting upwards out of his weight class. From that perspective I love butters theory that the winter mantle is not actually making him stronger, just ,Dudley his mind concerning his limits.


message 41: by Caryl (new)

Caryl Huffstetler | 90 comments Christian wrote: "Mab keeps on loaning out Harry because that is how she pays back favors loaned to her, after all Mab is always good for her word and pays every debt. If people are stupid enough to allow her by pay..."

Still training her knight through various tasks for others. Yep, that sounds very Mab like. I buy it.

Especially in light of the conversation between Dresden and Leanansidhe in PG chapter 39 concerning Lloyd Slate:

Leanansidhe: "... He only lives so long as he resists."

Take that in light of Dresden's conversation with Mab in CD, I believe, after Maeve is killed. Dresden has just instructed Demonreach to imprison Mab if she pulls the trigger and she says, "At last, a knight worth the bother." -or words to that affect. Don't have CD in e-book to make chasing down a quote easier-

I don't think Mab *does* want the mantle to take over her knight. She wants/needs/desires a knight that can keep his higher brain functions in tact rather than succumbing to the hind brain/id -lizard brain Dresden has called it-. And being Starborn seems to make his brain more resistant to being taken over by just about everything not just Outsiders.


message 42: by Mary (new)

Mary Catelli | 16 comments The whole Thomas business was seriously underdeveloped. The attack was so out of character that it seemed strange that Harry didn't even consider "What strange and improbable circumstances could have led things to look like this?"

On account of how few of them would actually look less strange than the most obvious explanation.


message 43: by Alexis (new)

Alexis | 21 comments Caryl wrote: "Christian wrote: "Mab keeps on loaning out Harry because that is how she pays back favors loaned to her, after all Mab is always good for her word and pays every debt. If people are stupid enough t..."

I half agree with you. Yes, I think Mab wants someone who can think logically and behave strategically in the face of the Winter Mantle, because Mab is schemer and I think her knight being a instinct driven thug makes him of limited use to her when he has to act in her interests. But I do think that his morals are becoming a real thorn in her side.


message 44: by Bill (Just a) (new)

Bill (Just a) | 64 comments Dresden breaks into his old home and now a castle to grab Thomas. To escape out, why didn't he just open a gate to the never never?


message 45: by Monica, White Council (new)

Monica T. Rodriguez (monicatrodriguez) | 374 comments Mod
Great question Just a Bill! I suspect he'd worry about the nature of the NeverNever he'd pop into, but he's gone that route with less thought put into it. What's funny is that he didn't even entertain the idea. I hope Jim did have a reason for that. Otherwise, that's a plot hole you could drive a truck through.

@Caryl - great point about Mab in all black when Harry showed up to the meeting with Marcone (SG). It's not really talked about. Something pissed her off supremely. Was it really Marcone?


message 46: by Christian (new)

Christian | 148 comments Mab in Black at the end of skin game was for me always a combined message, she had provided payback/justice for the attack on arctis tor by denarians, as well as Nicodemus personally for breaking the accords. I think it also served as a reminder to Harry that their books were not balanced yet either.


message 47: by Mary (new)

Mary Catelli | 16 comments Maybe being Winter Knight makes the travel more fraught.


message 48: by Aaron (new)

Aaron | 5 comments Here’s the way I view Mab’s ultimate wish for Harry and the mantle of the Winter Knight. In each of the three mantles worn by the women of the Winter Court - Mother Winter, Queen of Winter, and Lady Winter - they have shown, in the appropriate hands, to leave their cognitive function at least mostly intact, as far as we know. Certainly, Mab is brilliant, ruthless, and cunning. Molly has not lost her compassion and still cares deeply for her friends and family, though she has admittedly worn the mantle for a very short time. But they are all Powers with a capital P and possessed of that which makes them...them. In the case of Mab, we still have a lot to learn regarding how she came upon the mantle and her ties to Merlin, but it sounds as if it’s a tale of heartbreak and loss and it might have driven her right into Winter’s arms, where she found her power and her calling. Who knows?

How does this relate to Harry? I think she expects him to fight the more base instincts of the Winter Knight every step of the way, which is fine with her. She doesn’t need a murdering sex addict with ice powers right now. Right now she needs someone with the ability to think unconventionally, who isn’t afraid to rock the boat when necessary, has immense raw power that she can boost (whether psychologically or by ACTUALLY boosting his physically and magical abilities), is intelligent, and above all cannot be influenced by The Outsiders. By sending Harry on so many morally twisty and just flat difficult missions, she’s wanting him to wear the rough edges off the mantle of the Knight until it fits him as the mantle of Queen does her. Until he is an ultimate weapon of Winter to use against the Outside.

That’s HER agenda. I doubt it’s what comes to pass. But I do believe it’s what she wants.

Anyway. My .02.


message 49: by Caryl (new)

Caryl Huffstetler | 90 comments Aaron wrote: "Here’s the way I view Mab’s ultimate wish for Harry and the mantle of the Winter Knight. In each of the three mantles worn by the women of the Winter Court - Mother Winter, Queen of Winter, and Lad..."
I, obviously, agree with your take on Mab's plans for Harry. I just think she's not used to the level of defiance Harry turns on her. NoBody defies Mab -publically- anyway. But Harry warned her up front.

Also, his attitude may be reminiscent of the original Merlin bringing up old memories. We'll have to see how JB twists and turns the obvious expectations.


message 50: by Jeanie (new)

Jeanie | 110 comments Bill (Just a) wrote: "Dresden breaks into his old home and now a castle to grab Thomas. To escape out, why didn't he just open a gate to the never never?"

I wondered the same. I figured it was because of the dangers in the Never Never--who wants to be chased by monsters while lugging a battered vampire--and the uncertainty of where you enter and exit. Plus,
Mab can't be implicated at all so escape through her realm would be impolitic... not that Harry ever gave that a concern before. And can others detect the opening of a portal into that realm? Tracking others there also seems fairly easy given how many times Harry has been chased there. Were we told whether or not there were magical shields that would have prevented making an opening into the Never Never? We know there weren't other magical protections on Thomas, but I'm betting Marcone would have wanted something to keep the beasties from getting into the basement.


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