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David Copperfield - Group Read 1
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May - June 2020: David Copperfield: chapters 30 - 44
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David and Dora obviously need a servant, since Dora was useless. But my understanding is that even couples who were more competent and of modest means had help with cooking, cleaning, going to the market , etc. It was too much work without modern conveniences and it made for extra jobs, ill-paying and hard as they were. I can’t really blame the servants for taking advantage of this clueless couple, they probably had their own families to feed, and they had no reason to dote on Dora.
Ouch. Theft is theft, whether the couple is clueless or not, and I was happy to see Mary Ann and her criminal cousin out of the house. How wise Aunt Betsey is to love them and not insert herself into the domestic arrangements. She is correct that her interference would have done no good and would have built up a resentment and a sense of incompetence in Dora, who is already incompetent enough!
Wanting to be called a "child-wife" is just too strange for my modern day sensibilities, but I have come to the conclusion that Dora should be accepted for being sweet and ornamental and left at that. The dinner with Traddles was a hoot, with Jip walking around on the table. Oh my! I'm afraid that would cancel my appetite entirely.
This was a painful chapter for me to read, seeing how the servants and merchants really took advantage of them, including theft, as you mentioned, Sara.
I agree that this is a difficult chapter to read. They are both so young and Dora is, sadly, so incompetent.
Aunt Betsey is such a terrific character. She so gently told David that his marriage was his and Dora's affair, yet ensured that she was always there for support to them both.
The dinner was hilarious but the idea of a dog running around on top of the table made me squirm and shake my head. Even Dora, I thought, would appreciate a table without a dog on it, so I wonder how this became an approved method of behaving for Jip.
I assume the oysters were going to be eaten raw. Why did they not think about cooking them up when they found they didn't have oyster knives? They are so young.
"Child-bride" made me feel a bit sad for Dora. She has some very deep insecurities that she is not facing or wanting to deal with. It's easier for her to remain a "child" and not grow up. Somewhere in her mind, she realizes this. It must make her feel a bit of an outsider, if not to David, then to his friends and, perhaps, society.
Dora said that she wished she could have spent a year with Agnes, so she is aware of her own limitations.
Agree, Rosemarie. I've stated before that this is a frustration to me about Dora. Since she realizes her limitations, you'd think that she would try to learn and yet she either doesn't really try or gives up very early in the game. She's a weaker type of person who needs go follow a stronger person. Hence, I think, her wish to spend a year with Agnes. She's really quite self aware and I find that a hopeful sign.
Perhaps if they found a strong and dedicated servant (like Peggotty), she could learn from her? She only needs a few household managing tips. Imagine how much more confident she would be knowing she can be a help to David.
The difference between Dora and David's mother might well be the presence of Peggotty. Most of us learn how to be a wife from watching our mothers. Dora has not had that example to follow. She had a father only, who over-indulged her and never wanted her to be self-aware or independent. She is really to be pitied.
I get the feeling that Dora is not very bright and really is unable to learn the things she needs to do to be a good wife. Aunt Betsey is very wise to tell David to accept her as she is. I remember thinking of Aunt Betsey, when she first showed up in the book, as a madwoman. But I am liking her more and more as the story progresses. David has three strong, supportive women in his life in Aunt Betsey, Peggoty and Agnes.
Katy wrote: "I get the feeling that Dora is not very bright and really is unable to learn the things she needs to do to be a good wife. Aunt Betsey is very wise to tell David to accept her as she is. "I wonder what Dora studied when she went to France, if a cookery-book gives her a head-ache. Sometimes she is so stupid that, like Cindy wrote, she makes Mr Dick look like a rocket scientist. Sometimes she is so unexpectedly aware of herself, like in the little speech about the child-wife: “When you miss what I should like to be, and I think can never be, say, ‘still my foolish child-wife loves me!’”
I also think that Aunt Betsey is wise to tell David to accept her as she is. There appears to be nothing that can be done with Dora; she is not improving, on the contrary, she seems to be regressing to an infantile state. The previous chapter was a chapter about a dream; this one is a chapter about the end of the dream.
It's true. Dora was so sheltered that she may not realize that she can find help and learn. Keeping her so sheltered has made her very insecure and allowed her to lose any self confidence that she may have had. She truly is to be pitied.
I found the beginning of the chapter very litteral when adult David says the Honemoon is Over, he uses this phrase in the very modern way we do and, yet, I don't know if the Victorians did or not use that saying this way. I agree with other comments that this is the setting of reality.There was a lot of humor in this chapter, but there was always an undercurrent of disappointment.
Jip on the table was just disgusting, that dog has been so indulged, I feel like he his the mirror image of Dora, she treats him exactly the same way as everyone has treated her.
Aunt Betsey is very sage here, the best way for the young Copperfields to get on is by themselves. They will learn (well, David only probably) of to run a household and act towards each other after all the mistakes, it's trial by error life in general.
The child-wife nickname is disturbing to our modern ear because of where our society is. (view spoiler)
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Milena - "The previous chapter was a chapter about a dream; this one is a chapter about the end of the dream". Yes, as several noticed, like many young couples they have fallen into the trap of never thinking further than the wedding ceremony. Charles Dickens managed, in the dream-like wedding chapter, to include everyone who has ever been a friend to David. This made it a delight to read, as it was as if we were there. Now we are back to reality.
Mod
It's also worth noting that we have many examples to show that everyone she meets continues to do this, and indulge her. Everyone is happy to do this, because she is child-like and sweet. So what motivation does she have to change?
Katy noted that "David has three strong, supportive women in his life in Aunt Betsey, Peggotty and Agnes", yet not one of these three try to change Dora. They too are kind and indulgent with her, and she has the rare gift of making everybody around her happy.
The only person who wants Dora to change is David, and because she loves him, she tries to, as she says "be good", and learn what he wants her to learn, but she can't. It's debatable why this is, since she has received an expensive education in Paris, but whether you think she has an identifiable learning problem or not, this seems to be a sincere account. She can't learn, and if she is pushed, she becomes distraught. Again, the only person who ever does this to her is David.
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As Robin said, it was normal for this class of person to have at least one servant. Even lower middle class English families had servants at this time, as they did not have to pay them very much, and they were a status symbol. David has, throughout this novel, been very concerned with his social position, and it would irk him to think that his wife was doing household chores. He made it very clear to the reader, that even when he was doing factory work there was still the air of a gentleman about him.
Therefore, his wife's duty would have been to check on the servant, but never to do the servant's work. Also, those household chores were much more difficult and time-consuming in that era than they are now. Kitchen ranges had to be heated very early in the morning, and cooking took a longer time. Washing clothes took a whole day, from dusk till dawn, so however simple it was, this was not the occupation for a lady such as Dora, and David would not wish his pretty doll to have the hands of a servant.
But try as we might, we cannot see Dora in the role of someone who instructs a servant what to do. She lives in a fairytale world, calling David a "naughty Blue Beard", singing and dancing, playing with a bunch of keys, and even having a doll's house in Jip's pagoda. Even Betsey Trotwood characterises them as "a pair of babes in the wood".
Can´t add anything to this chapter that hasn´t already been said, but this one was easier to read and understand. Thanks for the summaries and more information Jean!
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Yet as narrator, he is presenting the best view of himself here.
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And I think too that the "Dickensians!" are feeling a little kinder towards Dora. Charles Dickens has done his best to make his readers fall in love with Dora, but (as I said in my earlier post about her), she manages to irritate 21st century readers perhaps more than any other character he ever wrote! It's crucial to remember not only that she is a 19th century female, but one who does not have the capacity to question, and is not encouraged or motivated to. We must not colour her desires and expectations with our 21st century values.
France-Andree please take this kindly, as it is meant. Your spoilers come through on my e-mails with the spoiler tag removed. I have been very careful not to read ahead and it was quite impossible to miss that very telling give away. I appreciate that you put it under a spoiler and were not aware that this could happen, which is why I thought I should say. I hope it has not happened to anyone other than me.
Sorry, Sara, I was not aware since I do not use the email notification.
Jean, I agree that David is the only one who wants to change Dora, but then, he's also the only one who has to live with her! LOL! It is obviously very disappointing to him to have to work all day, sometimes until 2 or 3 AM, and come home to a messy, poorly-run house with no food. However, I also agree that he has made his bed and will now have to lie in it. Dora has clearly been unfit for this role all along, so he will just have to suck it up and accept her as she is. This was, as Sara and Milena point out, uncomfortable to read. I do see some resemblance to David's mother, but again, Dora takes it to such an extreme. Clara was definitely meek and helpless, but she didn't act like an actual child, which Dora does, and a very young child, at that. I'm trying to control the ick factor, but it gets the best of me at times! :) (Her nickname for him sounding so much like "Daddy" doesn't help)!
I know that Aunt Betsey is very fond of Dora, but as much as she loves her, I think she is also aware of Dora's shortcomings and of what this means for David's quality of life. When David asks her to intercede with Dora and she refuses, I feel that there is a hint of this. She tells him, "'you have chosen freely for yourself;' a cloud passed over her face for a moment, I thought;' (532). To me, this could be her recognition of the downside of his choice.
Although Dora is a winsome creature and David loves her, he is starting to realize the full scope of what he has lost with his choice. Her inability to run the household is just one part of it, and not even the most important. He muses, "I did feel, sometimes, for a little while, that I could have wished my wife had been my counsellor; had had more character and purpose, to sustain me and improve me by; had been endowed with power to fill up the void which somewhere seemed to be about me," (539). He's beginning to realize the consequences of having an enchanting "child-wife." Instead of a woman to share his problems with, another adult to give him advice and comfort, he's got this pretty child scribbling on his nose with a pen and dancing her dog around on the table. I think he may be starting to realize that he is actually going to be very lonely in his marriage. As has been pointed out, it seems to be either impossible or too overwhelming for her to change, so he is manfully shouldering the burdens for both of them.
France Andree: I knew you were unaware that it would do that, which was why I said something, but I have since been informed that it isn't doing it to others. Cannot imagine why my notifications would be different, but it is totally outside your control, so my humble apologies. (And, I am not saying 'umble as Uriah would...sincerely sorry.)
It’s been a busy day here getting yard work done. Everyone has made so many insightful observations that there isn’t much for me to add. Unless I missed something reading through all the comments I have a couple of thoughts about Dora that I didn’t see. It occurred to me that Dora’s father intended for her to marry a wealthy man. Her French finishing school and the debts he incurred on her behalf were expenses that Mr Spenlow must have believed were an investment in securing her future in an advantageous marriage. And, if he had lived, I think his plan would have came to fruition because a pretty girl on the marriage market stood a better than good chance.
I remember he strongly objected to David as Dora’s suitor. But then, Mr Spenlow died suddenly and unexpectedly, leaving behind a daughter whose upbringing made her a very dependent person. He just didn’t live long enough to see her settled with the kind of husband he had in mind for her.
Mod
Excellent observation! Thank you for bringing this one up.
This must have contributed to Dora's make-up, and explain Mr Spenlow's vehement objections to David. He must feel in danger of losing his "life's work" which he has sacrificed everything - even his reputation after death - to.
To be honest, I always think Mr Spenlow's demise is "convenient", as if Dickens had written himself into a corner. But then knowing how well this particular novel was planned (most of the earlier ones weren't - they developed as he wrote), and marvelling at the construction otherwise, makes me think perhaps Dickens had no better option.
Mod
Oh yes, I agree with all your post :) It actually reminds me of parents who find they can't cope with the children they have brought into the world (I'm just talking generally here, about average normal kids) and then bemoan the fact.
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Neither do I think France-Andree could have known. If Goodread provides spoiler tags then we expect them to work!
I hope it's OK with you if we move this discussion to "Mrs Dickens Parlour", as we really do need a policy here. And it frees up this thread for any further comments on these chapters.
Again, I really am so sorry this happened to you both :(
Cindy wrote: "He muses, "I did feel, sometimes, for a little while, that I could have wished my wife had been my counsellor; had had more character and purpose, to sustain me and improve me by; had been endowed with power to fill up the void which somewhere seemed to be about me," (539). […]I think he may be starting to realize that he is actually going to be very lonely in his marriage. "Cindy, I highlighted that passage too. You can see all David’s disenchantment and loneliness. During their engagement, he seemed never have thought that he would be alone with Dora when they were eventually married. One passage that struck me in this respect is this one:
[I] cherished a general fancy as if Agnes were one of the elements of my natural home. As if, in the retirement of the house made almost sacred to me by her presence, Dora and I must be happier than anywhere. (Chapter 34)
If you love someone and want to marry them, you don’t think about having someone else in your love nest. This passage have many interpretations in my opinion. One interpretation is that he never really perceived Dora as a person to share his thoughts and deep feelings with, although at a conscious level he wanted to believe that it could be possible some day. He was sleeping and dreaming a beautiful dream. He had some awakenings sometimes:
I sometimes awoke […] wondering to find that I had fallen into the general fault, and treated her like a plaything too. (Chapter 41)
But, as you wrote, Dora is a winsome creature, and David is a young man. But when all the fuss of the engagement (with Miss Mills, and the two canary-aunts, and aunt Betsey, and Agnes) is over, and all that is left is but Dora, here comes the end of the dream, and loneliness.
Milena, thank you for the quotation about Agnes. It didn't stick with me when reading, and I think you are right that it makes a very profound statement about the marriage if David saw it as including another person. It would clearly indicate that he knew from the beginning that something was going to be missing in his relationship with Dora.
That is an interesting quote, Milena. It didn't stick with me, either. It also reminds me of Dickens' situation with his wife and her sister, Mary.
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Our next thread is now open, by the way :)
Lori wrote: "It occurred to me that Dora’s father intended for her to marry a wealthy man. Her French finishing school and the debts he incurred on her behalf were expenses that Mr Spenlow must have believed were an investment in securing her future in an advantageous marriage...…...."Lori, this is a terrific observation. Dora was raised for reaching expectations that never came true. In a way, David stood in her path.
Would, or could, the bird aunts have made Mr. Spenlow's hopes for his daughter come true? It seems unlikely. Therefore, only Mr. Spenlow could have made it happen and, sadly, he died suddenly.
I've fallen behind the group for a number of reasons, but am still very much enjoying this novel! I have just finished Chapter 37. I've tried to skim through the comments through that chapter and see I've been missing a lively discussion! I'll likely never catch up now, so will just pop in here and there rather belatedly :) I'm at the point where David has come to learn that his aunt has been ruined financially and he is now begun working with Dr. Strong on his dictionary. I'm pleased to see former characters return. One of my favorite things about this novel is knowing that they are introduced to us with reason. These people do not suddenly disappear never to be seen again.
Oh, Dora! Well, needless to say I'm not a big fan either! I'm very interested to see whether this courtship will last despite David's change in fortune. I suspect not, as Dora does not seem to have the fortitude to support David through this. But time will tell, as with all things.
I'm enjoying the growth of David's character in small steps. Much like a real person, he develops over time and experience. Dickens has a brilliant creation here, really!
Candi: it’s very enjoyable to have an author that doesn’t introduce characters just to confuse the reader with Dickens even if it’s a character that is only in a couple of chapters, they have a point to them and bring something to the story.
I also like that you can trust Dickens to have a purpose in every character no matter how small. I'm glad you are still reading, Candi. We've missed you.
Exactly, France-Andrée. Each certainly adds substance to the story :)Sara, thank you. I had life complications with parents with transportation issues, a sick dog, as well as the old problem of getting in over my head with books. It seems I thought I had unlimited reading time lately :D
I know the feeling, Candi. Hope the dog is well again! I've been watching you polish off some wonderful reads, so you are doing just fine.
Candi wrote: "Exactly, France-Andrée. Each certainly adds substance to the story :)Sara, thank you. I had life complications with parents with transportation issues, a sick dog, as well as the old problem of g..."
Glancing at this comment, I saw the word "transportation" and thought it was part of the discussion about people being sent to Australia! (since that term was used) My brain is in Victorian time. (I don't mean at all to make fun of your concerns, this group is great for letting people catch up when needed.)
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"I'm pleased to see former characters return" Oh yes, we've mentioned this. Just as you are beginning to think "I wonder what happened to "x"", they pop up in the next chapter! And as France-Andrée says, they all have a purpose, and Charles Dickens answers our questions, tying up the ends with a great big bow :)
Robin "my brain is in Victorian time" I know exactly what you mean! Sometimes my words switch into more formal phrases ... or this morning I was working out what a future date would be by the chapter number we would be on!
Candi - I do hope your life adjusts as you wish, and any problems soon recede - or are resolved. We're all in an odd situation right now.
"Glancing at this comment, I saw the word "transportation" and thought it was part of the discussion about people being sent to Australia! (since that term was used) My brain is in Victorian time. (I don't mean at all to make fun of your concerns, this group is great for letting people catch up when needed.)"How funny, Robin! I can see that! No worries at all :)
"Candi - I do hope your life adjusts as you wish, and any problems soon recede - or are resolved. We're all in an odd situation right now."Thanks very much, Jean. Things seem to look a bit better, but now I will be returning to work! Well, I'll be glad to get back to the library, but my reading schedule will shift considerably once again :)
I'm only six months behind everyone! Nisa's links, Jean's summaries and everyone's comments are very much appreciated!Here are just a few of my comments:
I was hoping that something would happen to prevent David and Dora's marriage. I even thought that Uriah Heep might create some impediment for them. Nope! I agree with those who suggested that David is marrying a girl like his mother.
D.C. is a very long book and to keep his reader's interested, Dickens had to create many side issues. For me, Heep's involvement in the Dr Strong/Annie/Maldon triangle was a stretch. I didn't think it moved the story forward until David noted that a marriage between two very different people can be very challenging. He knows that he and Dora really are not suited for each other. However, I think that the triangle story was written just to whet the scandalous interest of his readers. (I really wanted to write prurient.)
The great contrast with the really bad people (the Murdstones, Steerforth and Uriah Heep) and all the good people who have helped David along the way (Clara Peggotty, Aunt Betsey, Agnes Whitfield and many, many more) are part of what makes David Copperfield a very good book. I'm so glad I'm visiting this book again.
Mod
"I even thought that Uriah Heep might create some impediment for them" What a great idea! That hadn't occurred to me, but it would be well in character.
As for the love triangle (yes, use "prurient" by all means! I think the Victorians liked their "shockers" rather more than we give them credit for ...) remember that there is still a quarter of the novel to go, and Charles Dickens liked to tie up his loose ends ... beyond that my lips are sealed!
I completely agree with your last paragraph - and in fact want to read David Copperfield all over again even now!
Bionic Jean wrote: "Cindy and Petra and others, I'll try to sum up my feelings about Dora so far ...I more or less came clean about my feelings about this little noodle earlier, without playing devil's advocate ;) S... I shall nevertheless be heartily relieved when we have a chapter without the a-dora-ble Dora!"
I have been reading this book and looking through the group's 2020 discussion. Since nobody else is reading it, I have mostly refrained from comment. This comment made me laugh out loud.
I just finished Chapter 44, and as so glad to advance to a chapter where I would hear rather less about the a-dora-ble Dora.
Mod
But do feel free to add your thoughts for the relevant section, if you like.
My random thoughts on this part:I was absolutely sure 'srub' meant 'shrub'!
[GR is not letting me post the link to Wiki: a fruit liqueur that was popular in 17th and 18th century England, typically made with rum or brandy, and mixed with sugar and the juice or rinds of citrus fruit.]
Are you all 100% sure Mr. Omer was drinking something non-alcoholic? This is surprising.
I think Em'ly's family's pressure to have her married to Ham inadvertently led to her running away with Steerforth. She felt she didn't have a choice. I think that for her being married to Ham might have felt like being married to a younger version of her uncle, - not exactly a welcome idea.
That said, she was clearly unhappy when she was running away - that must have been an indicator to her that she was on the wrong track.
I agree with you (various people have come to this conclusion) that David fancies immature women probably because they remind him of his mother (first, Em'ly, now, Dora).
Jean said, 'Jane Austen often seems to have silly young women in her books who are prone to "fall", yet they don't seem to fall all the way ... or at least if they do they are rescued! There doesn't seem to be an "underworld" in her books ;)'
Jean, I'm sorry to have to disagree with you once again, but I'm afraid you're being a bit unfair to this author; what about Colonel Brandon's Eliza and her daughter in 'Sense and Sensibility'?
Mr. Murdtsone is another version of Polidori's 'The Vampyre' (and Steerforth is his younger cousin).
Jean, your wedding dress sounds gorgeous :)
I've always loved to wear shades of purple.
Debra, I thought Gollum had something in common with Uriah, too!
I've found Lady Maria Clutterbuck's cookbook on Google books...
but GR is not allowing me to post the link :(
She does not sound stupid.
David slapped Uriah instead of punching him: can it be that he thought Uriah not manly enough for a proper punch? After all, we know David did go to battle with the butcher boy, so I'm guessing he must have the skills, right?
Jean said, '(I've always had difficulty too with Elizabeth Bennet's passion for Fitzwilliam Darcy seeming to date from the exact moment she had her first glimpse of Pemberley ...)'
(But this is just a joke she made to her aunt, not how it really happened.)
(And I can't agree that Dora is very similar to Rosamond in 'Middlemarch' either. (view spoiler))
Sara said, 'Just a thought about Rosa's name...Roses do have thorns, and it would seem that Rosa Dart(le) may have been a nice person before and is all thorns and pricks now.
My thoughts exactly!
I actually liked Rosa, before her outburst... It's understandable, but I thought her to be cleverer than that.
I have a vague memory I once did something similar with the oysters! I knew they needed to be opened, but tried opening them with regular knives I had in the kitchen, and made a bloody affair out of it.
My most shameful culinary failure, though, is this: I was cooking soup (and oh, I love soups), and I was going to put a little bit of seasoning into it (a kind of herbes de Provence mix), and what do you think, instead of the herbs falling through the slits in the cap of the little bottle, the cap itself tumbled into the soup, with half the herbs. This really was a Dora-like moment for me, and my young husband was as supportive as David could be.
I have oyster knives now, but I grow my own herbs - I probably have never got over that bottle débâcle :)
I do not find Jip on the table disgusting! It's true, I don't want Eric on the table (can't imagine a table that big either); it would be uncomfortable; but...
'Cutting down the trees' - I'd rather say this is an uncomfortable metaphor.
Jean, what an excellent observation that David is the only person who tries to change Dora, and that he expects her to deal with the servants after all the humiliation he suffered from Mrs Crupp :) Again, this is so true of young people, - I think both my husband and I secretly hoped that the other would know how to deal with our Mrs Crupps :)
According to John Mullan, the Victorians picked on sexual hints even better than we do now, because so much of the representation of this side of life was just generally limited to hints. So, the peach scene? Mullan thinks the Victorians definitely would think about what sex with Uriah would be like.
Mod
Nice point about The Vampyre by John William Polidori, which was published in 1819 so yes, Charles Dickens had probably read it. He would have read many novels in which aristocratic seduction played a part.
"what about Colonel Brandon's Eliza and her daughter in 'Sense and Sensibility'?" You're not disagreeing with me at all Plateresca! As far as I can tell, the example you gave proves my point! It is a bit of a drawback when one comes to a read afterwards though, as I have no context to remind me. At the time I could have been more explicit if needed ...
With "Colonel Brandon's Eliza", presumably you mean (view spoiler)
I'm not sure in what way you think I'm being "unfair again" to Jane Austen when I observed that "There doesn't seem to be an "underworld" in her books". There isn't!
Jane Austen excels at what she does, and actually I think Sense and Sensibility - Jane Austen: Annotated is her best novel. But she is not at all concerned with lowlifes, the criminal classes, or even the working class, and her heroines are all staunchly genteel, but slightly impoverished. Since the only reason for mentioning Jane Austen in a thread about the middle chapter of David Copperfield must be to compare the two authors' different focus (not their ability. They are like chalk and cheese!) I think you must allow that Charles Dickens has characters across the whole range of society. Specifically in our current read of Oliver Twist, I can only think of half a dozen at the most who would be acceptable in a Jane Austen novel.
But as I say this is all off-topic, and was very probably a casual remark at the time. We do try to stay on topic as you know, and leave it to other groups (some of which are excellent) to discuss other Victorian or Georgian novelists except where they relate directly to the current read of Charles Dickens.
So re. Middlemarch(view spoiler) Yes, well observed and expressed. Their behaviour is similar, but it comes from different motivations.
Rosa Dartle is mesmerised by Steerforth. He is one of the people who is so charismatic that he has power over practically everybody, which is pretty much how Charles Dickens viewed himself! There are detailed posts about his roots in mesmerism, his lifelong belief and and how it affects many of his characters in the Oliver Twist read threads. The mania was in 1837-38, when it was written, and informs all Charles Dickens's writing. We can see this once we know the background.
Here are the links you wanted John Mullen ... probably The Artful Dickens: The Tricks and Ploys of the Great Novelist which we've spoken of a few times (and I really want to read! Every snippet you have told me makes me want to read it even more) ... and What Shall We Have For Dinner? Satisfactorily Answered By Numerous Bills Of Fare For From Two To Eighteen Persons by Catherine Dickens (under the pseudonym Lady Maria Clutterbuck).
I enjoyed reading your observations, and will get on to the earlier threads when time allows. (As you suspected, my first priority has to be to the main read). Our current group read is at its most emotionally exhausting - for us all - at the moment! I look forward very much to when you will be able to join us at the time, when we next read a novel by Charles Dickens.
In the meantime, I know you'll be enjoying Charles Dickens's personal favourite 😊
Bionic Jean wrote: "What's exercising my mind at the moment is ... We know David falls for every pretty face he sees - or rather he has done up to now. But there are two young women with whom he has been very close ..."
Chapter 33
Jean wrote: "With Uriah, the aim is clearer I think - to get his hands on the Spenlows' money and power."
Did I miss something? I thought Uriah Heep was aiming at marrying Agnes, not Dora Spenlow. Was Red Whiskers Uriah Heep?
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Sense and Sensibility - Jane Austen: Annotated (other topics)Middlemarch (other topics)
The Vampyre (other topics)
David Copperfield (other topics)
Oliver Twist (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
John Mullen (other topics)Catherine Thomson Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
John William Polidori (other topics)
Jane Austen (other topics)
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After the honeymoon, David thinks:
"It was such a wonderful thing, at first, to have her coming softly down to talk to me as I ate my supper. It was such a stupendous thing to know for certain that she put her hair in papers. It was altogether such an astonishing event to see her do it!"
David is sometimes kept out very late, if there is a debate in parliament he needs to record. He is also working hard at his own writing.
They have a servant called Mary Ann, who came with very good references, but her time-keeping is hopeless, and she reminds David of Mrs Crupp so much that he suspects she drinks.
"We felt our inexperience, and were unable to help ourselves."
David tries to encourage Dora to talk to Mary Ann about her duties:
"I couldn’t, Doady! ... because I am such a little goose ... and she knows I am!"
Dora becomes very upset, pleading and wheedling David in all sorts of ways, to stop him talking about it:
"don’t be a naughty Blue Beard! Don’t be serious!"
and David's insistence "wounded Dora’s soft little heart" and they have their first quarrel. David has to leave, feeling miserable and remorseful, and cannot return until two or three hours past midnight. He finds Aunt Betsey, sitting up waiting for him. He explains what happened and she is very understanding:
"You must have patience ... Little Blossom is a very tender little blossom, and the wind must be gentle with her."
David asks if his aunt could counsel her, but she pushes the idea away firmly. She thinks over her past life, and how she might have been more gentle with his mother:
"If I judged harshly of other people’s mistakes in marriage, it may have been because I had bitter reason to judge harshly of my own ..."
She thinks she has done well by David, but reminds him of what happened when the Murdstones came and interfered, and how unhappy their efforts made his mother.
"You have chosen a very pretty and a very affectionate creature. It will be your duty, and it will be your pleasure too—to estimate her (as you chose her) by the qualities she has, and not by the qualities she may not have ... a pair of babes in the wood as you are!"
David realises the wisdom of this, and that he and Dora have to work out the future for themselves. His aunt leaves them alone and they make it up.
Mary-Ann often has a visitor, a burly cousin in the Life-Guards, but one day he is arrested for desertion, and taken away in handcuffs. This gave David the impetus to dismiss Mary Anne, who goes quietly. Later they discover that she has stolen all their spoons, and left debts with the local traders, in their name. They employ a succession of servants but all take advantage in one way or another:
"Everybody we had anything to do with seemed to cheat us."
Our Housekeeping - Phiz
Nevertheless, they invite Traddles to dinner. It is a chaotic affair, with everything being in disorder, and Jip walking about on top of the table, but Traddles, in his good-hearted way, makes light of it.
Dora has bought some oysters as a special treat, but they are not opened, and they have no oyster-knives. Nobody wants to make Dora feel bad, so they make do with what is in the larder, and Dora:
"made tea for us; which it was so pretty to see her do, as if she was busying herself with a set of doll’s tea-things".
Afterwards they enjoy a carefree evening.
Time goes on, and nothing really changes. Dora asks David if he will call her his "child-wife", to remind himself that she cannot learn the things he wishes her to. She tries once again to learn from the Cookery book and the accounts book, but makes playthings of them. She watches David working, for hours.
One day she asks him if she can hold his pens, and this gives her great pleasure, as does copying his writing, if he asks her to. Dora also takes charge of the keys, but they are only ever:
"a plaything for Jip ... She was quite satisfied that a good deal was effected by this make-belief of housekeeping; and was as merry as if we had been keeping a baby-house, for a joke."
"I was a boyish husband as to years ... If I did any wrong, as I may have done much, I did it in mistaken love, and in my want of wisdom."
Aunt Betsey visits regularly, spending a lot of time there, and is always supportive of them both.