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Policies & Practices > Audible Originals coming back--clarification needed

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message 1: by M (new)

M | 54 comments I am one who NABs certain AOs when they meet NAB criteria. Some have recently come back... with ASIN numbers and all. I would like some clarification on this.

Example:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4... (by "goodreads mass editor") The edition section is mess, but that's another problem. And it doesn't meet the criteria of a book... it's described as a series hosted by someone, but that's another problem.

1. Had I not scrolled through the changelog, I wouldn't have seen it. If GoodReads librarians or staff are doing this, why aren't they leaving notes on the author page or doing something... anything... to communicate that these should not be NABbed again?

2. Is there a policy change now or on the way?

Please discuss. Thanks.


message 2: by Melanie (last edited Jan 08, 2020 08:31AM) (new)

Melanie (mvalente89) | 1758 comments I'd also love to know if this is a change in policy or someone just not knowing the policy. I've come across a few of these.

In the meantime, I'm merging all of the duplicates in the example given.


message 3: by M (new)

M | 54 comments Melanie wrote: "In the meantime, I'm merging all of the duplicates in the example given."
Thanks for doing that!


message 4: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 41973 comments Mod
The Goodreads Mass Editor is an automated process that does certain types of database cleanup. It does not know about policies, and no edits it makes should be considered comments on our policies.


message 5: by M (new)

M | 54 comments Hmm, so that one is good to NAB again? Can do.

This thread...
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

So are these two titles supposed to be here to stay? Or can they go?
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...
https://www.goodreads.com/work/editio...


message 6: by Alan (new)

Alan Teder | 19 comments It is completely unclear in the NOT A BOOK and NABing guidelines why the various audiobooks that are short stories, novellas, memoirs, documentaries and theatrical plays should be considered not books esp. when print versions exist or will exist for many of them (often Audible has an exclusive for several months after which the author is allowed to go to print versions), and until that is cleared up they will continue to be added by readers/listeners. That is especially more so now that Audible is giving 6 or so of these Originals away for free every month and generating several hundred ratings/reviews for each of them.

Given that Amazon, Audible and Goodreads are under the same umbrella can't this be worked out in good faith between different arms of the same company? ie. if Audible and Amazon market something as an audiobook, why can't Goodreads just accept it? It takes a while for Amazon to catch up with ASIN's but now e.g. October 2019'sYou Can Thank Me Later: A Novella is clearly listed as an audiobook at https://www.amazon.com/You-Can-Thank-... and December 2019's Holiday Greetings from Sugar and Booze is at https://www.amazon.com/Holiday-Greeti...


message 7: by Alan (new)

Alan Teder | 19 comments One more thought, the complaints about the previous Audible deletions to Goodreads Support in December 2019 were answered by something like the attached (I am quoting from one person's copy in the Audiobooks Group). This implied that clarification would be made in the Librarian Manual (LM) especially about Audible audiobooks. No such update has happened to the best of my knowledge (based on the LM NAB guidelines still being dated from Dec. 17 2019), so couldn't further deletions be put on hold until the Librarian Manual is updated to clarify things?

"Thank you for taking the time to write in about this! I understand where you are coming from I have reached out to our Head Librarian and specialist team about our policy in relation to adding Audible Originals to Goodreads.

Our Librarian Manual will be updated to provide more information as to what is a book and what is not classified as a book. I have asked that the Audible section be expanded upon as well.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience this has caused and we really do appreciate your valuable feedback. Please feel free to reach out to me again if you need help in the future!"


message 8: by Melanie (last edited Jan 08, 2020 09:21PM) (new)

Melanie (mvalente89) | 1758 comments Alan wrote: "It is completely unclear in the NOT A BOOK and NABing guidelines why the various audiobooks that are short stories, novellas, memoirs, documentaries and theatrical plays should be considered not books..."

I don't have a response to most of what you've written as it seems to be a staff decision, but as far as I am aware, the originals that are short stories and novellas do qualify to stay.

To other librarians or rivka, is that not the case? I was under the impression it was only the non-book format type ones (i.e. podcast or interview type ones) that shouldn't be here.


message 9: by M (new)

M | 54 comments Alan wrote: "Given that Amazon, Audible and Goodreads are under the same umbrella can't this be worked out in good faith between different arms of the same company?"
GoodReads wasn't always part of this umbrella; GR was purchased by Amazon years after it became successful. It would seem there were policies back then and that some of these policies remain.
I, personally, believe in having standards and not in bowing down to the mighty corporation. If mighty corporation ever takes notice of GoodReads and gets the librarian manual changed, I and others will of course follow the instructions.

Alan wrote: "[C]ouldn't further deletions be put on hold until the Librarian Manual is updated to clarify things?"
Why would we stop following the manual? It makes more sense for librarians to follow the instructions in the manual until the manual is changed. Continuing with NABbing (and any resulting complaints) is more likely to bring a policy change about than not NABbing, IMHO.

Melanie wrote: " I was under the impression it was only the non-book format type ones (i.e. podcast or interview type ones) that shouldn't be here."
Yes, that is my impression as well. Librarians who are getting rid of the short stories, novellas, etc. should probably not be.

Hoping for more reponses here...


message 10: by Alan (new)

Alan Teder | 19 comments I am joining in this thread to hopefully clarify the NAB instructions and also because of the 12 Audible Originals deleted in December 2019 that I know of, I had read/listened to 11 of them and it therefore became very noticeable on my reading challenge when they disappeared.

As most of those deletions were of short stories, novellas, memoirs and audio productions of theatrical plays it did seem to me that they qualified as Books, but were still being NABed for some reason.

There is also perhaps some misunderstanding that Audible Originals are available by subscription only, but that is not the case. They are available to everyone. It is only that a certain number are available free each month to members, but they are still available to everyone for purchase.

Of the 12 Audible Original Books deleted in December 2019 (which includes 2 perhaps being selected for reNABing above) this is a summary and grouping:

1. SHORT STORIES/NOVELLAS
Holiday Greetings from Sugar and Booze by Ana Gasteyer
You Can Thank Me Later: A Novella by Kelly Harms
Camp Red Moon by R.L. Stine (an anthology of 4 stories)
Carnival Row: Tangle in the Dark by Stephanie K. Smith

2. MEMOIRS / BIOGRAPHIES
Climbing with Mollie by William Finnegan
My Lost Family by Danny Ben-Moshe
Find Another Dream by Maysoon Zayid (this one also exists as an eBook in pdf format)

3. AUDIO PRODUCTIONS OF THEATRICAL PLAYS
The Way She Spoke by Isaac Gomez
The Half-Life of Marie Curie by Lauren Gunderson

4. NONFICTION DOCUMENTARIES i.e. THESE ARE THE CLOSEST TO THE "PODCASTS" OF THE NAB INSTRUCTIONS
The Home Front: Life in America During World War II by Dan Gediman
How Chefs Holiday by Dana Cowin
The Burnout Generation by Anne Helen Petersen

So I am just trying to clarify that Categories 1, 2 and 3 above do not seem to be excluded as Books in the Librarian instructions, although for some reason they were still deleted in December 2019. I do understand that Category 4 would be in the "podcast" grouping and would be subject to NABing.

My only point about the corporate side is that those other entities will continue to market all of these Audible Originals as audiobooks and readers/listeners will therefore continue to add them.

I do believe we should adhere to standards and instructions and am only trying to make a case for those Audible Originals which I believe are therefore exempt from NABing.

Apologies for the length of this, but because of the extent of the previous Audible Original deletions which did not seem to adhere to the instructions I thought this was the best way to make the case. Thanks for your time in reading.


message 11: by Emily (last edited Mar 09, 2020 07:58PM) (new)

Emily | 13141 comments Referencing someone's edits is not allowed in this group.


message 12: by Alan (new)

Alan Teder | 19 comments Emily wrote: "Referencing someone's edits is not allowed in this group."

Sorry, did not know that. Deleted accordingly. Apologies.


message 13: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 41973 comments Mod
Post with specific users mentioned by name has been removed. Closing thread.


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