WEEK THREE - WE ARE OPEN - THE TOWERS OF SILENCE - December 22nd - January 4th > - PART ONE - THE UNKNOWN INDIAN - Chapter Six (pg. 72 - 90 - PART TWO - A QUESTION OF LOYALTY - Chapter One (pg. 91 - 101) No Spoilers.

[Jill H.]

Note: The reading assignment will cover two weeks due to the holidays when members will be enjoying their time with friends and family.


Hello Everyone,

For the weeks of December 22nd - January 4th, we are reading PART ONE - The Unknown Indian - The Towers of Silence -Book III,(pg. 1-38) and PART TWO - A Question of Loyalty - Chapter One (pg. 91 - 101)

The first week's reading assignment is:

WEEK ONE- December 22nd - January 4th ~ PART ONE ~ The Unknown Indian - Chapter Six (pg. 72 - 90) - PART TWO - A Question of Loyalty - Chapter One (pg. 91 - 101)

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on December 8th.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle. Make sure to pre-order now if you haven't already. This weekly thread will be opened up on December 22nd.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Jill will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Bentley.

Welcome,

~Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Paul Scott

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how to cite books:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Introduction Thread:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Table of Contents and Syllabus

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...


Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

by Paul Scott

[Jill H.]

Chapter Overview and Summary

The citizens of Pankot are starved for information from the outside world as they are only getting snippets of gossip. They want more detail about the uprisings and the situation of Miss Crane and Daphne Manners. The military in Pankot think that the civil service in Mayapore is lacking in leadership.

Ewart Mackay arrives from Mayapore and the men at the club pump him for information. After a few drinks he opens up. He states that he did not really know Daphne Manners but doesn't have anything nice to say about her and the incident at Babighar Gardens. He relates that the boys who were taken by the police for the alleged rape were badly treated and most people thought they deserved it. Mackay speaks of Hari Kumar and the fact that he feels the Hari and Daphne were in love and the police made it rough for him because of it. He shocks them by telling of her pregnancy but says she will probably have an abortion. He also believes that the police had enough evidence of anti-British activities to lock all the boys, including Hari, in prison without a trial.

The newspaper headlines report the death of Miss Crane by suttee. When Barbie reads of it, she is distraught and thinks that it is the work of the Devil.

We learn a bit more about Teddie Bingham (who is to marry Susan Layton) and his family. And the fact that he was first attracted to Sarah but that quickly faded when he met Susan and switched the object of his affection. They soon announce their engagement.

Note: For those of you who have different editions of the book, this week's reading assignment ends at the close of Chapter One

[Jill H.]

Question:

I found it odd that with Pankot being a military town, there was no information about the uprisings taking place around the country.....uprisings that would change the environment for all people in India. Or was the military keeping secrets from the town's population in order to maintain calm?

[Kressel]

I've just started, and Barbie is as absorbing character as Daphne and Sarah. But remind me: who is Mabel Layton? Sarah's aunt or her mother?

[Martin]

Mabel is Sarah's paternal grandmother. Mildred married Mabel's son, who has been captured by the Italians in N. Africa. I believe I have that right. Mabel married twice. Husband one, I believe, died in action. Number two of an illness.

[Kressel]

So these are completely new characters we haven't met yet?

[Katy]

We have met these characters at least in book 2 that I remember. Mabel Layton is the stepmother of Colonel Layton, Mildred's husband --so I guess that is why Sarah and Susan call her Aunty Mabel instead of grandmother.

You might remember too that Mildred has been unhappy with several things that Mabel has done over the course of our story.

by Paul Scott

[Katy]

I think what messes with my brain a bit is that the books are not completely chronological in order.

[Martin]

Kressel,

The Laytons and Barbie, again assuming my memory is correct, were introduced in Day of the Scorpion.

In the second and third volumes, the focus shifts to the women of the Raj. Barbie was a bit of an English eccentric in Scorpion, but obviously is taking on a much larger role in Silence. Pay's the same, though.

by Paul Scott

[Kressel]

So is Aunty Mabel the one who died at the end of The Day of the Scorpion? And who's the relative who appointed Sarah's "chaperone" at the end of that book?

by Paul Scott

[Katy]

Kressel wrote: "So is Aunty Mabel the one who died at the end of The Day of the Scorpion? And who's the relative who appointed Sarah's "chaperone" at the end of that book? "

Yes, now you are getting them connected together -- do you see what I mean by non-chronological?

You might check out Jill's summary of the last chapter of The Day of the Scorpion here to help refresh: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

by Paul Scott

[Jill H.]

It gets a bit confusing, especially since the books are not in chronological order. Basically, we have the following:
Mabel...no blood relation to anyone but was married to Mildred's husband's father. She has no children of her own and is twice widowed.
Mildred....married to Mabel's step-son and has two daughters, Susan and Sarah. Her husband is a POW.
Barbie.....Mabel's companion in later life.

These are all the major women in these chapters. But I miss Aunt Fenny!!

[Jill H.]

Just a reminder.....don't forget that this Week Three reading assignment will cover two weeks due to the holidays...it runs from December 22nd through January 4th. I will be checking in on a regular basis, so keep up the great discussions!!!

[Jill H.]

Notice that Eward McKay really blames Daphne for the Babighar Gardens situation or at least it appears that way. He has nothing nice to say about her. He is more interested in the alleged anti-British activities of the boys who were arrested than the incident with Daphne.

[Martin]

Whoa!

McKay is the one who comes closest to understanding the truth of the rape. His nearly spot-on analysis is tinged by his Britishness - he speculates Hari was complicit in arranging the rape and does not see Daphne in a favorable light, reflecting the Brit consensus - but he understands what no one else to this point has grasped: Hari & Daphne were in love.

And he takes that a step further by understanding how being in love would cause them to act the way they did.

Ironic that a drinker with a wooden leg would be the one to sort this all out.

[Jill H.]

I figured that would get a response!!!! McKay was prattling while in his cups and I'm not sure he knew that he probably was closer to the truth than he knew. As a British soldier, he would not have any use for Daphne, a white woman who consorted with an Indian man, regardless of their feelings for each other. I had the impression that he was being snide about their love.

[Martin]

Well, I think you'd have to read that snideness into the text.

On more than a few occasions Scott puts the truth in the expressions of the least likely characters. Barbie, for instance. Sister Ludmila for another.

I attribute it to Scott's finely tuned sense of irony that scribes seem to develop. Out of the mouth of a drinker comes the closest thing to the truth about Hari & Daphne that we've seen out of a Brit yet.

[Janis]

I did sense the irony in prattle of McKay. At first I thought he knew without realizing he knew until the liquor helped him sort out his inklings. Odd but unknowingly snide.He does not consciously believe that a white woman would be with an Indian.

[Jill H.]

That was how I read it, Janis. Liquor loosens the tongue and sometimes the truth comes forth....a truth which he would not normally put into words if he were sober....subconscious truths that are not acceptable to the British such as Daphne and Hari being in love. It just "wasn't done".

[Kressel]

Speaking of drinking, does The Day of the Scorpion ever imply that Mildred Layton has a drinking problem. I don't remember it, but I'd imagine if I went back to the book (which clearly I need to do), there would be hints of it.

by Paul Scott

[Martin]

From Scorpion:

"On top of all this, there was - how should one put it? - a tendency in Colonel Layton's lady towards over-indulgence with the bottle." (p. 617 Everyman Library edition)

Mildred's a lush.

[Kressel]

She's also a witch in this book, but I don't remember that from the last one.

[Katy]

I wonder what other role McKay and his revelation will play in the story. So many people that I just think are side characters show up again and then I missed the subtle hints that Scott gave for continuing the story.

I don't ever remember thinking that Mildred was nice. But of course most of our British characters are a bit nasty anyway.

[Martin]

Now, now, ladies.

Let's not be unkind to our Brit cousins, either as characters in literature, or in real life.

While Mildred is, well Mildred, I wouldn't burn her at the stake.

She's not a psychopath.

[Katy]

LOL, definitely not that. And we have the benefit of hindsight, while Mildred is stuck in India with her husband in a POW camp somewhere. Although I don't think Scott is too impressed with the British POV in Colonial India either.

[Kressel]

I don't remember thinking that she was particularly nice in the last book, but we sure didn't see her nasty side like we do now.

[Kressel]

One of the main reasons Paul Scott is so amazing is that even our worst villain - Merrick - has a gentlemanly side.

[Jill H.]

She was presented as "vague" and rather ineffectual in the other books but as Martin pointed out, her drinking habits were mentioned. She even was caught out once by Sarah with a perfume bottle to her lips.

She expected to be living in Rose Cottage and instead, Mabel who is really not even a blood relative is residing there. She is not a happy camper and it is starting to show up in this book.

[Katy]

Kressel wrote: "One of the main reasons Paul Scott is so amazing is that even our worst villain - Merrick - has a gentlemanly side."

I agree, our characters are not truly villians -- Scott has fleshed them out to be human. Some more likable than others, but very human.

[Kressel]

Oh, I disagree. Merrick is definitely a villain. And because he can be so gentlemanly, he's even more disturbing as a character.

[Jill H.]

He is a very vindictive person.....one who aspired to the upper classes. If you remember, he hated Hari for speaking "public school" English while he did not.

[Kressel]

And think of the torture he put Hari through in prison! And then, at the end of it all, he showed him kindness and gave him something to eat or drink, which Hari had no choice but to take. That was the worst torture of all because it was psychological and deliberate humiliation.

[Katy]

Ha, Ha, Ha. The kissing scene at the end of Chapter 1 of Part 2 from Sarah's POV with Teddie. Most expertly done.

[Jill H.]

Martin wrote: "Well, I think you'd have to read that snideness into the text.

On more than a few occasions Scott puts the truth in the expressions of the least likely characters. Barbie, for instance. Sister Lud..."

Don't you think that Lady Manners also was aware that Daphne and Hari were in love? She may never have said it but she showed it by keeping their child and thereby isolating herself from society.

[Martin]

Of course she knew. Not sure why you asked. it seems obvious. What she didn't do was piece together the events of the night of the rape. Her thinking is of a higher order. Again, her thinking is wise, and to use a metaphor, it is like the moon light. It illuminates without dispelling the darkness, nor eclipsing the stars. The more factual recounting is akin to the light of the sun. It too sheds light, but disperses the context of the darkness and eclipses the light of the stars and moon.

[Donna]

..."Out of the mouth of a drinker comes the closest thing to the truth about Hari & Daphne that we've seen out of a Brit yet.

Scott, himself, was an alcoholic.

I'm enjoying the discussion, everyone, although I'm behind on the reading.

[Martin]

Yeah, he was. A dash of irony there.