Time Travel discussion
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The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August
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THE FIRST FIFTEEN LIVES OF HARRY AUGUST (November 2014)
I accidentally read this a month early, but I think I'll remember enough to participate.Personally, I like the idea in principle. It makes it easier for the author to sidestep some of the paradoxical confusions, which means the reader can focus on story and character development. And I think it was well-done here - though of course a bad author can mess it up big-time, for example not letting the character learn from her past lives.
While I have not read the book yet, I believe that reincarnation is a very interesting way to write about time travel, as it allows an author to describe past time periods while having some action and drama in those said time periods. For me, what is interesting in time travel stories is what happens in the past or future, rather than how one travels through time.
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How difficult would it be to have to start a life over in a baby's body, with the intellect and memories of an entire lifetime(s) still remembered?
Reading Question 2:
What skill set would you choose to master in your second life?
I find reincarnation to be an interesting form of time travel, one that I never considered before. In this book though, the narrator isn't reincarnated into a new body but into his own over and over again. Starting life over in a baby's body would be very difficult for the first few years when motor skills are undeveloped. It would be frustrating not to be able to speak or walk, as I imagine it is for elderly people who lose control of their faculties.
If I got to experience a second life, I'd like to master a musical instrument and one or more languages. They say it is easiest to learn these things when begun as a child. I wonder, does the body or the mind need to be that of a child?
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Are you all enjoying it?
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Samantha, I agree with you, repeating the same life and the same time period is not the same, if he were reincarnated in future generations. However living the same lifetime over and over is an interesting way of learning the future.
I really hope to get to this by the end of the month, but am ging to participate in the Buddy read first. I noticed it was nominated for the Goodreads Choice Awards in the category of Science Fiction
I think it would be very difficult to be, basically, a frustrated adult in a baby's body. More difficult than is explored in the novel.The second time around I think I'd want to study something about survival, like medicine or wilderness survival. That way I could, in the future, focus more on scholarship or leisure.
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I can't imagine being a baby and being as smart as an adult and I am not sure I could handle the frustration level of that circumstance. Relating that bizarre circumstance to the real world, as we become older and we lose our physical fitness, and ability of our youth...Do we not live with a measure of that frustration?
Do we tell ourselves in our minds, yes I can still do this or that physically challenging aspect, We just stop running, or playing football, and get old...our bodies go but I don't think our minds come along.
Interesting concept. Will have to download this book asap and try to join in. Not sure about how it would work.Made me think of Vonnegut's TimeQuake in a way. In that book an event happens which causes everyone to relive the last 10 years of their life moment by moment unable to change anything, but being completely aware they are reliving it. Interesting thought exercise.
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Its two fold. I find myself not caring about Harry...he is pretty much an immortal and some things he is going through are completely awful, but I have not connected at all to care about him as if more than fiction.
Secondly, there is an overall lack of tension, if everything he does resets, how can anything that happens matter in the least.
Not sure how far the group has read, but they have started addressing the second issue by the 30th chapter or so...still uncaring for our protagonist so far.
What is the groups take on my comment?
Lincoln, the main theme of the book is 'what matters?' and so I think you should keep reading. It's not an adventure - the drama is on a larger scale than fighting some bad guys.I can empathize with you not particularly caring about Harry. I think maybe he's more of an Everyman than an individual, iirc.
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I think I would stick it out with computers...I have always enjoyed using computers and gaming specifically. Goodreads has taught me some very very basic html. If I were to go again I think I would latch on and push my computer skill to a degree that would allow me to be on the cutting of all things technical now a days. The next big thing, would be in my garage. I was never into math which is what turned me off of programming, and I don't have the acute motor skills needed for computer manufacturing. I suppose having the knowledge of how a thing works in its entirety would have to be enough.
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Life After Life? I was soooo very bored with that book because it kept on rehashing the same events over and over, but what I like about Harry August is that he seems to do something completely new with each life. Even if the world around you is the same, you would certainly want to experience it differently each time. I like how his personality changes because of his experiences. Where he was once bullied, the bully cowers, etc. I'm a little over 100 pages in, and I'm really enjoying it. It's a book I definitely look forward to picking up each time. And each time I marvel at how much better it is than Atkison's book. Atkison's book seemed like just a good idea with poor follow through. This one seems like a more likely reality for someone doomed to repeat their life over and over.
I especially like the idea of the Chronus Club. I like the idea that information and messages about and from the future can be passed into the past. Brilliant. Sign me up.
If I were afflicted with continuously being reincarnated as myself, I'd personally use each life to learn more languages when I'm young and my brain is extremely receptive to them. Then I'd insist on finding a way to use them in order to retain them. All but one of the 4 languages I studied in my youth are lost to me for lack of usage. I've really only retained Spanish because I use it on the job. But I've lately been pushing myself to read news in Spanish and am working up to reading a novel in Spanish so that I can branch out beyond work-related vocabulary.
I would also read more widely, travel more, have more random conversations with strangers, and culminate all that knowledge into an epic novel series. After a while, one would feel like a tourist, seeing what there was to see and doing what there was to do.
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Interestingly, the first book of her fantasy series as Kate Griffin, A Madness of Angels: Or the Resurrection of Matthew Swift, has a reincarnation theme.
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Life 3 is his religion life
Life 4 is his science life
I see both reactions to being realistic to the character.
How would you react? Turn to religion or science...or both?
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Life 3 is his religion life
Life 4 is his science life
I see both reactions to being realistic to the character..."
I feel that I've been several different people and lived several different lives in this one life, so I can't imagine that I'd focus an entire lifetime on just one pursuit. These are my lives so far:
Life 1: religion, education, naivety, pride, writing, loneliness
Life 2: education, humility, social
Life 3: literature, writing, seclusion, awakening process
Life 4: freedom, social, self-discovery, writing
Life 5: happiness, service, boredom
Life 6: family, literature, science, ruminating, happiness
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I wish Fidel's part in the book wouldn't have been so brief. He says my favorite line so far in the book: "Hey, for immortals, Club guys are really inconsistent? You know they killed me with an overdose once? I was like, Jesus guys, I"m only thirty-three and now I've gotta go through potty training again? What the f***?" You'd think that would go a little smoother by the 13th life, right? For the most part, the kalachakras/ouroborans are locked into having to go through the motions of childhood over and over again. Some of it might be great fun, but what would you look forward to least about having to repeat childhood?
Discussion Question After Chapter 48:
Do you side more with Vincent or more with Harry when it comes to the idea of the (view spoiler) that Vincent wants to invent? (view spoiler)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
In answer ...
I have to say that the part I'd hate repeating most in childhood would be all the pages and pages of busywork math homework.
Perhaps my choice isn't going to be the most popular, but I side with Vincent. (view spoiler)
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I can empathize ..."
Amy,
I reply to your question with Cheryl's comment. The question remains What Matters
This might seem cheesy but I thought the stranger rides a train chapter to be quite profound. In your message 18 you break down your one life into many stages of your life, and personal growth and change....
Harry sits on the train and questions who he is. Is Life 1 more important than Life 5? Do any of them matter?
I keep thinking about video games, doing crazy things that should not be done or can't be done in society for real...but you do them because its fun and its not real and it doesn't matter and the game resets. So if I were Harry I might treat real life like a video game and do things off the cuff, not take precautions...(view spoiler)
The big secret here is that It all matters whether we face judgement, or natural consequences, who we are and what we do is important...if only to ourselves.
Regarding Vincent after Chapter 48:
(view spoiler)
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So I take it, Lincoln, that you're liking the book more as you've gotten into it? You seem to be devouring it as quickly as I am. Are you finding yourself caring for Harry more? It certainly has enough tension as it goes on!
I have to agree with you that the whole process would definitely start to feel as if you're in a video game or if you're in a role-playing game. I tend to choose characters in video games or role-playing games that are the opposite of my everyday self. I'm overly cautious and am a rule-follower in real life. But in D&D, I only ever wanted to play the part of a thief/rogue because it was thrilling to be able to experience a lifestyle unlike my own with real life impunity from the consequences. Whatever I do in game, it doesn't matter in real life. If my character dies from the consequences of my actions, it's not real. I can always start over again.
Even torture isn't real for Harry. If he dies, nothing is really lost. Dying is actually the best end result. Perhaps that's why the torture in the book doesn't bother me as much as it normally bothers me when I read about it. I can't say I'd enjoy seeing this book made into a movie because of those scenes, but they're so necessary to the book as a whole. If you're tortured by a person with a linear life, any information that you divulge doesn't matter because everything will be reset in the future. But if you you're tortured by an kalachakra, you'd do best to just endure the torture because the information that you give up can be used against you for eternity.
Amy wrote: "Did anyone else here read Life After Life? I was soooo very bored with that book because it kept on rehashing the same events over and over, but ..."I am reading it right now Amy, about half way in. I am finding it picking up a bit now, but it is really slow going, I had so many friends love it, so maybe my expectations were too high.
Our next monthly read Replay, is also about someone reliving their life over and over , and the different choices that a person makes.
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Life After Life? I was soooo very bored with that book because it kept on rehashing the same events over an..."If you don't like it yet, it's not going to get any better. Run far, far away and don't look back. Life is too short to read disappointing books all the way through. Start reading Harry August instead.
I'm actually a little worried about reading Replay right after Harry August because it's going to set the bar so high for reincarnation time travel. I think Replay is going to pale in comparison. Harry August feels like literature whereas Replay doesn't. I really hope my re-read of it is going to be a negative experience like re-reading my ex-favorite, Time and Again, was.
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Time travel snobs. Ha. Maybe. I think it's more that the world has changed and that our ideas of good versus sloppy writing has changed with the more books that we've read. I loved all the history the first time around. The second time around, it felt like Finney just upchucked some historical research on the page and left it there without much editing.
One thing I remember about Replay was feeling as if I were trapped inside the narrator's mind without much of a sense of setting. I wonder if it will feel the same way the second time around. Every time we read a book, we bring our past reading experiences and our life experiences in with us. So every time we read a book, the book has the potential to be something completely new.
This is a little annoying - everyone seems to be ahead of me! It's a great read. I've been enjoying the fact that some of it is set where I grew up. Annoyed that the village of Hoxley is fictional, but Alnwick and Holy Island I know well from my youth. And I had the same colour of hair as a child as the protagonist did when he was younger, plus we're both from lowland Scotland.
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Stick with it Mark once you get past those first few years and you start to remember...it can be frustrating but after that you can choose whatever life you care to pursue with knowledge of all the others already lived.
I thought I was reading a lot and leading the pack and Amy has passed me up...Technically we have a deadline of the end of November, but reading this one slower might be best.
I hope you are enjoying the read Mark.
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I usually try to pace myself with our group read, but this one is really making me turn the pages. For the first part of the book, it's not a page-turner because of suspense or tension so much that it's just well-written. It's only after Harry arrives in Russia (perhaps 60% into the book?) that it becomes a page-turner for suspense and tension. There's nothing like an immortal mad scientist villain to shake things up. I'm likely to finish it up tonight or tomorrow night.
Mark wrote: "plus we're both from lowland Scotland. ..."
Which city are you originally from? I guess I assumed Harry was fom England since he solicited help from the London Chronos Club. I should have looked on a map. No wonder the child version of Harry always needed help from someone to get from his childhood home to London.
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/... <--- book-relevant science research news
(I promise you'll get the joke as you're nearing the book's end.)
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Strangely enough, yes. Only $3600 (+$230 shipping): (view spoiler)
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Is it just me or does this whole [spoilers removed]"
Lots of unanswered questions to your question there Amy...but to an immortal small progress made over eons is a lot of progress (view spoiler)
Lincoln wrote: "Amy wrote: "Another Question For After You Read Chapter 48Is it just me or does this whole [spoilers removed]"
Lots of unanswered questions to your question there Amy...but to an immortal small ..."
At last I'm beyond chapter 48 and have been able to view the spoilers! (view spoiler)
Hah!
Amy wrote: "Mark wrote: "This is a little annoying - everyone seems to be ahead of me! ..."I usually try to pace myself with our group read, but this one is really making me turn the pages. For the first par..."
Born in Glasgow, but the most of my lineage was borders - we were what were called 'reivers' on one side, and common ancestors to the Armstrongs (of the moon). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_R...
I only just discovered this bit of my heritage. The Borders were the British equivalent of the Afghanistan / Pakistan tribal areas until quite late in UK history.
Amy wrote: "Post-Reading QuestionDo you think Harry and [spoilers removed] loved each other?"
Just finished earlier this evening. What a terrific read! I cannot wait to read what this author is writing in one or two decades from now. Wonderful on so many levels
(view spoiler)
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I like the fact that this book is all over the place geographically. I feel like I know my American history and in a broader sense my world history. Cold War...Chinese Cultural Revolution. Living the same life over and over and yet completely different depending on where he decides to go.
Is there a question in my comment? Are you appreciating the history from multiple perspectives as I am?
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I like the fact that this book is all over the place geographically. I feel like I know my American history and in a broader sense my world history. Cold War...Chinese Cultura..."
If you're going to live the same life over and over, I think living it differently is the only way to stay sane. So what if everyone is doing everything they did last time around. As long as you move around, you can experience something different. I like how the author does comment on how some of the Chronos Clubs are small because the members know what's coming politically and get the hell out before it's too late. I'm surprised, though, that he doesn't live through a life where someone's decided to kill both Hitler and Stalin. Funny. Time travelers are always killing Hitler but never think to kill Stalin, too. You'd have to get them both (and early in their lives) in order to make the history of that time period pleasant to live through. I'm sure it was too much for the author to try out one of those alternate history scenarios. She had bigger fish to fry.
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Amy wrote: "Lincoln wrote: "1919 to the 1990'sI like the fact that this book is all over the place geographically. I feel like I know my American history and in a broader sense my world history. Cold War....."
Mao would be another one. If you were going to terminate Stalin, then you'd have to go after Mao too. You'd also have to do something about an aggressive and expansive Japan. It might have been held off if the Chinese hadn't been fighting an internal conflict, but probably not. Without WWII to spur the Allies to develop nuclear weapons, would Japan have got there first and dictated terms to the West as it ate up half the globe, I wonder?
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Spoiler Safe After Chapter 67:
I know your finished with the book Amy but I just finished Chapter 67 and I thought you had asked a discussion question regarding it...but I go back in the thread and find your comment relating to chapter 61 not 67!! and your spoiler is not a question...but I agree with you (view spoiler)
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It would be like trying to plug a hole in a dike I suppose; leaks would spring up elsewhere.
Nathan wrote: "One of my favorite aspects of this narration is the character's ability to look at a whole lifetime and analyze it. ...."
It's amazing to me the amount of patience the kalachakras cultivate. Knowing that they've lived before and will live again, they can choose to use an entire lifetime or multiple lifetimes in order to reach a goal.
Nathan wrote: "Some people get cranky and mean when they are old, maybe their impetuous youth balances that out?. ...."
Harry does find himself being more bold in each life. He certainly doesn't allow himself to be bullied the next time around. There is definitely a lack of cranky kalachakras, though. I don't think that becoming cranky and mean has as much to do with youth as it does with pessimism and a decision to live for oneself without as much self-censorship. I'd think that being reborn would only intensify that resolve.
~*~*~
This was one of the best books of the year and we have over 1600 members with 3 pages of our readers who have this on their to-read list. Where is everyone? Is everyone just reading and stalking without commenting here? Comment if you're at least stalking this comment board.
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Oh, good catch. Because (view spoiler)?
Something else I noticed is that our author's normal pen name is Kate and she changed her pen name in order to write a book with a similar theme to another Kate (Atkison). Although, I have to say that this is a far more serious writing endeavor than the books she wrote under the Kate pen name. I'm trying to give her fantasy series a try, but her monster that constructs itself out of garbage has me a little concerned. I always try to read at least 100 pages before abandoning a book, but there may be a good reason she used a different pseudonym for Harry August.
I have to admit, I don't remember the second person bit at all. Would you plz remind us of the reveal 'why?'
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He only uses 2nd person a couple of times. One of the first chapters opens up in 2nd person. Since I've returned the book to the library, I can't cite it for you. However, the reason that is revealed at the very end of the novel is that (view spoiler)
Time Travel
Books mentioned in this topic
Atonement (other topics)The Postman Always Rings Twice (other topics)
Replay (other topics)
A Madness of Angels: Or the Resurrection of Matthew Swift (other topics)
Life After Life (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Kate Griffin (other topics)Claire North (other topics)
The First Fifteen Lives of Harry Augustby Claire North
I was given this book months ago, and I have heard some great things about it! I am glad it got voted in for the Book of the Month!
Here is the teaser:
The extraordinary journey of one unforgettable character - a story of friendship and betrayal, loyalty and redemption, love and loneliness and the inevitable march of time.
Harry August is on his deathbed. Again.
No matter what he does or the decisions he makes, when death comes, Harry always returns to where he began, a child with all the knowledge of a life he has already lived a dozen times before. Nothing ever changes.
Until now.
As Harry nears the end of his eleventh life, a little girl appears at his bedside. 'I nearly missed you, Doctor August,' she says. 'I need to send a message.'
This is the story of what Harry does next, and what he did before, and how he tries to save a past he cannot change and a future he cannot allow.
Pre-reading Question 1: What are your thoughts of reincarnation as a form of time travel?
I will be the discussion leader this month, however, as this is a Young Adult book and a popular one...I assume you all have lots to contribute. Please feel free to add your own questions as we go along!