Vaginal Fantasy Book Club discussion

Mind Games (The Disillusionists, #1)
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Nov 2014: Mind Games/Karma Girl > Post Questions here for the HANGOUT NOVEMBER 25th AT 7pm PST *spoilers*

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message 1: by Felicia, Grand Duchess (last edited Oct 28, 2014 08:37PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Felicia (feliciaday) | 740 comments Mod
This is the thread to discuss our MAIN PICK, "Mind Games" by Carolyn Crane, for our November 25th Hangout at 7pm PDT, which will livestream HERE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MhdZe...

Post questions or comments you want addressed in the live hangout here! And on the day, use the #vaginalfantasy hashtag to join the discussion!

Also, please subscribe to our new channel, where all our videos will live in the future:
http://youtube.com/vaginalfantasy!

We will be building out extra content over the next several months, stay tuned!


Laura (theloudlady) | 180 comments I'm excited about our new channel & I can't wait for more Vaginal Fantasy. The October hang out was a lot of fun.


Jenn (wildflowerz) I LOOOOVED this series. A lot. Especially the first one. I might actually re-read this one. I don't usually do that when I've already read one of the picks.


Xanthi | 52 comments Started reading it last night. Seems promising and I like the modern world environment for a change :)


Ashleigh | 108 comments Question for mind games

Spoiler ##

Did anyone else find it difficult to get pass the beret thing ? I tried over and over but could not find it at all sexy! Especially as I kept remembering that the silver widow had said she thought he was bald and so the hair was a wig


Ashleigh | 108 comments Question for mind games

Spoiler ##

Did anyone else find it difficult to get pass the beret thing ? I tried over and over but could not find it at all sexy! Especially as I kept remembering that the silver widow had said she thought he was bald and so the hair was a wig


Kiala Kazebee | 44 comments Mod
Ashleigh wrote: "Question for mind games

Spoiler ##

Did anyone else find it difficult to get pass the beret thing ? I tried over and over but could not find it at all sexy! Especially as I kept remembering that..."



HAHAHAHAHAH! Like...which is worse, really?


Kiala Kazebee | 44 comments Mod
Laura wrote: "I'm excited about our new channel & I can't wait for more Vaginal Fantasy. The October hang out was a lot of fun."

It was wasn't it? We're gonna have even MORE fun coming soon!


Shelley | 39 comments Question: am I the only one who sees a certain similarity between Justine in Mind Games and Beth Greene in the most recent episode of The Walking Dead (Slabtown)? When Beth wakes up in the hospital she gets the "we saved your life. You owe us" speech that implies that in the the hospital what she thinks or feels doesn't matter. Packard gives Justine a similar line when she finds out she can't stop being a disillusionist: "You were on your way to institutionalization and death. I saved your life!" Justine: "You didn't save my life. You stole it!"


Shelley | 39 comments Another less intellectual question: according to my Kindle reader, I'm 70% through the book. 70%! Where's the hot sex I've been expecting?


Ksenia | 13 comments Re: beret - I kept picturing the vagina beret that the Blogess wore on the hangout! Maybe that's why the book gave me the heebie jeebies :3


Ashleigh | 108 comments Haha the other thing is regarding casting ( thanks to packards name ) I had Patric Stewart in wig and beret for otto and although I tried to recast I couldn't escape it .
Note -I know spelling not the same and damn if I don't like me some Patric Stewart ! But not in the context of otto


Kayla Turner (plainkayla) | 78 comments Question for the VF ladies, if you had a high-cap power (one that was specifically mentioned in the book) what would it be?

Second Question:
Who here was surprised when they used a condom? This was one of the first fantasy/romances I have read where precautions were not only used- they were added into the sex scene as opposed to just being glossed over.


Cathal Stockdale | 21 comments Shelley wrote: "Another less intellectual question: according to my Kindle reader, I'm 70% through the book. 70%! Where's the hot sex I've been expecting?"
Around the 77% mark, chapter 31 for those with the Paper copy.
And again around the 87% mark, chapter 34 though this isnt as descriptive/'hot'.

Question
What is your opinion of the whole betrayal (double?) of Packard on Justine? Firstly not giving her all the facts about disillusionists, and then later where he blackmails her over Otto (don't want to spoil everything). While I can't forgive Pickards character, are his actions acceptable given the hoped for results?


message 15: by Amy (new)

Amy Allen | 7 comments I disliked all of the male romantic interests for the lead female. Nor did I like Justine's "use" of the men. She used Packard to get rid of her hypochondria, Cubby for his normality, and Otto for sex. Did anyone else just not like any of the relationships in the book? In fact, except for Shelby, I didn't like any of the characters.


message 16: by Miya (new) - rated it 4 stars

Miya (nursethalia) So, ladies, I have to ask...

In the end, are you for Team Cucumber or Team Kebab?


Shelley | 39 comments Miya wrote: "So, ladies, I have to ask...

In the end, are you for Team Cucumber or Team Kebab?"


This is so much more fun than Team Edward vs Team Jacob. Although, in Twilight it was much easier for me to pick a side (Team Jacob all the way) because I was at least sure both of those guys loved Bella and would treat her well. It's harder to choose between Packard and Otto because they're both creeps in their own ways. But if you forced me, I'd have to say that I'm TEAM KEBAB.


Kayla Turner (plainkayla) | 78 comments Team Cucumber all the way.
He knows she betrayed him, but saw she had a good intent behind it- and accepted her anyway.


Shelley | 39 comments Kayla wrote: "Question for the VF ladies, if you had a high-cap power (one that was specifically mentioned in the book) what would it be?

Second Question:
Who here was surprised when they used a condom? This wa..."


#1: I'd want telekinesis. With enough practice, I could probably manage to clean house with my brain while I sit on the couch and watch Doctor Who.

#2: The fact they used a condom surprised me as well. The reason I think we don't see that regularly in the fantasy romance genre is that (a) it's extra lines of text that make a book longer, (b) reading about someone putting on a condom is less sexy than watching in, and (c) so many times one of the characters in fantasy romance is a shifter or vampire or whatever who is immortal and immune to disease and/or unable to reproduce with a human. After the author brings that up just once, the condom isn't necessary and the author is off the hook for promoting unsafe sex.


message 20: by Amy (new)

Amy Allen | 7 comments Miya wrote: "So, ladies, I have to ask...

In the end, are you for Team Cucumber or Team Kebab?"


I am neither team. I hate to be the "Debbie Downer" for this book, but I really didn't like it. I liked the premise of the book, just none of the characters, except Shelby. None of those relationships are healthy or worth rooting for. This will be the last time I mention my dislike of the book, so no more "Downer".


Sarah Do any readers relate to the health anxieties? I did and that drew me in.

Regarding condoms, I would have been surprised if they wouldn't have been used or at least mentioned. First, because of health anxiety in general, even though there was a focus on one specific illness. Second, I thought it hinted at his caution and a desire to protect her too.

Spoilers....

Another question: Did anyone else suspect the relationship between Otto and Packard early in the book? VERY early I thought 'Oh so that's who imprisoned him and I bet this is why...' But somehow instead of spoiling it for me, it was more satisfying when it all played out.

Yep, Team Cucumber. He's trusting Justine and has good intentions. Seems like he'd regret his mistakes. Kabob's intentions seem to be about power and control. Seems like he'd justify his mistakes.


Shelley | 39 comments Sarah wrote: "Did anyone else suspect the relationship between Otto and Packard early in the book? "

I got that feeling when Packard took the time to insult Otto when Justine was looking at a picture of Otto in the newspaper. He seemed to be personally offended by Otto, which seemed silly unless he already knew him.


message 23: by Natalie (last edited Nov 09, 2014 12:30PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Natalie Mintz | 19 comments Ashleigh wrote: "Question for mind games

Spoiler ##

Did anyone else find it difficult to get pass the beret thing ? I tried over and over but could not find it at all sexy! Especially as I kept remembering that..."


I pictured him as Benicio del Toro from the movie Che.


Mandy Miya wrote: "So, ladies, I have to ask...

In the end, are you for Team Cucumber or Team Kebab?"


Team Neither although thank you for asking this because I wanted to bring up how absolutely WEIRD I thought it was when Justine (our narrator) refers to Otto's member as "cucumbery". I definitely LOL'd and pondered far too long about how odd and uncomfortable that description made me feel.

What are some other really un-sexy ways to refer to an erect johnson? and/or vegetables you're uncomfortable having sexualized in such a way?


Mandy Natalie wrote: I pictured him as Benecio del Toro from the movie Che"

ME TOO!!!




Gloria Mark (glowem) | 7 comments Team Kebab all the way. Otto did nothing for me since the first time he was introduced.
A non book 1 spoiler: (it's actually hardly a spoiler, but just in case...) (view spoiler)


Xanthi | 52 comments Oh right, I forgot. Well I would go for Team Cucumber because I didn't like Kebab's arrogance. Otto accepted her despite of what she did. I would love to read the rest of the books though and see how their relationship develops. But I don't think that this is it for Justine. Neither is her One I guess.


message 28: by Orange (new)

Orange | 56 comments Team Cucumber. At first I found him really unattractive because of the funny way he dressed (I kept thinking of Muammar Gaddafi). But then once you meet him there are some really nice things are him, especially in comparison with Packard. He's dedicated his life to do good and protect people, to make up for past mistakes. When he is proven wrong he is willing to try another way, even it's Packard his "nemesis" he has to work with. He forgave Justine. Plus my favorite thing about him is his awesome apt and night blooming garden. His power is pretty cool.


Somethingblue | 33 comments Team Kebab. 100%


Laurel I found many of the supporting characters interesting and highly likeable - Shelby, Simon, Helmut, Carter. Any favourites you hope will get their day in the sun during Book 2 or 3?


Holly Lau | 2 comments So, was Justine breaking out of a trope by actually going with her gut and talking to Otto about the situation? Was it just me? She seemed to move through some tough spots by actually being honest and discussing things, the "faces" chat with Packard, laying things out for Cubby.....

It was one of the things that really stayed with me about her character.


message 32: by [deleted user] (new)

Did Felicia have any trouble with the fact (if I remember correctly) that one of the male love interests had the same name as her dog?

Because my biggest problem was that I had to keep remembering that Cubby was not a dog.


Kiala Kazebee | 44 comments Mod
Ksenia wrote: "Re: beret - I kept picturing the vagina beret that the Blogess wore on the hangout! Maybe that's why the book gave me the heebie jeebies :3"

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Now I can't think of anything else.


Kiala Kazebee | 44 comments Mod
Anja wrote: "Did Felicia have any trouble with the fact (if I remember correctly) that one of the male love interests had the same name as her dog?

Because my biggest problem was that I had to keep remembering..."


I was wondering that too!


Kiala Kazebee | 44 comments Mod
Shelley wrote: "Another less intellectual question: according to my Kindle reader, I'm 70% through the book. 70%! Where's the hot sex I've been expecting?"

:((((


Andrew Tiarks | 6 comments All I could picture were the guys from the Guardian Angels in NYC.

Ashleigh wrote: "Question for mind games

Spoiler ##

Did anyone else find it difficult to get pass the beret thing ? I tried over and over but could not find it at all sexy! Especially as I kept remembering that..."



Andrew Tiarks | 6 comments oooo.... that's a pretty cool parallel! Now if only we could disillusion Officer Dawn, Beth would be so much better off!


Shelley wrote: "Question: am I the only one who sees a certain similarity between Justine in Mind Games and Beth Greene in the most recent episode of The Walking Dead (Slabtown)? When Beth wakes up in the hospital..."


Andrew Tiarks | 6 comments As I am new to this genre, the cucumber thing totally made me laugh. Luckily there was a lot of other stuff that I liked about the book.

Mandy wrote: "Miya wrote: "So, ladies, I have to ask...

In the end, are you for Team Cucumber or Team Kebab?"

Team Neither although thank you for asking this because I wanted to bring up how absolutely WEIRD I..."



Jessica | 27 comments Nothing like a cucumber in an opera cape, I always say


message 40: by Gary (new)

Gary Do you have a neurosis or phobia? How do you think it might manifest as a super power?

For instance, I used to have a phobia of rollercoasters. Srsly, I didn't get on a roller coaster until my 21st birthday. On my first rollercoaster, the phobia vanished instantly as soon as we headed down the first drop. So, clearly, I should be able to fly. (But only for about 30 seconds maybe....)

Alternately, if you could have a super power, what is the most extreme neurosis or phobia might you accept in order to get it?

I'd take arachnophobia for wall climbing any day... but would you hear voices in order to get X-ray vision, or be agoraphobic for water breathing?


Ashleigh | 108 comments Craig I agree, after each time Justine passed her fears on and was all "high" from the release I felt really uncomfortable for the victim even though they deserved it (well deserved it according to Packard anyway)


message 42: by Hannah (new)

Hannah Marae Ashleigh wrote: "Craig I agree, after each time Justine passed her fears on and was all "high" from the release I felt really uncomfortable for the victim even though they deserved it (well deserved it according to..."

Not to mention the fact that, for the most part, they only had Packard's word that their targets deserved it.


message 43: by Jenn (new) - added it

Jenn | 26 comments Otto just seemed more caring even if I couldn't get past the beret. At some point I just "forgot" about it and pictured him my own way.

Also I'm surprised nobody mentioned that when they were having dinner he kept checking in with her about how she was feeling. Asking her several times while he was touching her "Is this ok?" He respected her enough to listen when she said she wasn't ready for a relationship, so when they began to get hot and heavy he checked to make sure she was still comfortable with the way it was going. I really liked that the author included a basic thing like that and didn't turn to the no means yes trope.


message 44: by Melanie (new) - added it

Melanie | 5 comments The general sexual orientation of the book is a fantastic tease. Justine is constantly thrown or throwing herself into a sexual situation which ends with her being in whatever the female "blue balls" equivalent is. I enjoy her emotional and pragmatic struggle with Packard throughout the book, but wonder if she genuinely has a deeper connection with Packard or just needs to just get laid.


What's your thoughts ?

Meli NYC


Laura (theloudlady) | 180 comments Would you rather be a High-Cap or a Disillusionist?

I could not get over the beret or the fanny pack.

I'm on Team Shelby. I would love to read more about Shelby & Rickie.


Frakki Karu | 509 comments I'm also interested in what high-cap powers people would pick.

What neuroses could you dissolution people with? And, would you use it?

Do you think it's ok to do wrong things for the right reasons? Or rather, what did you think about all the moral dilemmas in the book?


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