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Archive [Retired Buddy Reads] > Herbert - Dune [Oct 10, 2019]

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message 1: by Jenna, I'd be free if not for Temper & Edgewalker (new)

Jenna Kathleen (jennakathleen) | 4417 comments Mod
Dune: Deluxe Edition - Frank Herbert
Dune Deluxe Edition by Frank Herbert
October 10, 2019.
Requested by Silvana.


message 2: by Zaara (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments Thanks Jenna.
IN


message 3: by Jenna, I'd be free if not for Temper & Edgewalker (new)

Jenna Kathleen (jennakathleen) | 4417 comments Mod
Zaara wrote: "Thanks Jenna.
IN"


You're welcome :)


message 4: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments Going to try to make this one. I've been dying to do a reread.


message 5: by Zaara (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments Narilka wrote: "Going to try to make this one. I've been dying to do a reread."

:)
Good to know Narilka. We were so far apart in the LPQ BR I feel we never got to talk. Ha, you're gonna have fun being the only one on the thread who has alllllll the answers as we make speculative spoilers....


message 6: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments Zaara wrote: "Narilka wrote: "Going to try to make this one. I've been dying to do a reread."

:)
Good to know Narilka. We were so far apart in the LPQ BR I feel we never got to talk. Ha, you're gonna have fun b..."


I last read it about 7 years ago so it's been a bit. Details are fuzzy. It's one of my favorites though :)


message 7: by Keli (new)

Keli | 32 comments This will be my first fantasy buddy book read, so thought I'd start with a classic.


message 8: by Silvana (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) | 1763 comments Keli wrote: "This will be my first fantasy buddy book read, so thought I'd start with a classic."

This is actually mostly classified as Sci-Fi but I am surprised many shelved it as fantasy.


message 9: by Paulina (new)

Paulina Parzych probably I wont be able to finish it in October - as Ive got some other books to read but I hope i'll make it till the end of the year :D
added to list for 2019


message 10: by Keli (new)

Keli | 32 comments Silvana wrote: "Keli wrote: "This will be my first fantasy buddy book read, so thought I'd start with a classic."

This is actually mostly classified as Sci-Fi but I am surprised many shelved it as fantasy."


I should have capitalised or put in quotes Fantasy Buddy Reads as I meant the group. It will be my first time taking part in any buddy read for this group.


message 11: by Silvana (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) | 1763 comments Keli wrote: "Silvana wrote: "Keli wrote: "This will be my first fantasy buddy book read, so thought I'd start with a classic."

This is actually mostly classified as Sci-Fi but I am surprised many shelved it as..."


Ahh, gotcha. Well, I hope this BR will be as great as the others :D

I plan to start more or less on time.


message 12: by Zaara (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments Silvana wrote: "I plan to start more or less on time. "

Me too, bcuz Priory of the Oramge Tree BR ain't gonna be ending anytime soon.


message 13: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments I'll be starting early. Dune is next after I finish my current read. Don't worry, I'll leave spoiler posts for you all to open once you start :)


message 14: by Zaara (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments Narilka wrote: "I'll be starting early. Dune is next after I finish my current read. Don't worry, I'll leave spoiler posts for you all to open once you start :)"

Thank you, sweetheart! Big of you.


message 15: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments I completely forgot there are no chapters in this book. Going to have to go by % read :)

I'm a whole 6 pages in and things are already starting to come back. It's amazing how that happens.

Not a huge spoiler since you'll read it within the first 6 pages but just in case (view spoiler)


message 16: by Silvana (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) | 1763 comments Starting now. I am so gonna picture the casts of the upcoming TV series for this one!


message 17: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments You are going to finish before me :) I have family in town and my reading time has gone down dramatically.


message 18: by Silvana (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) | 1763 comments Don't be so sure on that. I am reading a paperback copy with so very little fonts. Gosh I miss adjustable fonts in Kindle 😅


message 19: by Zaara (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments Silvana wrote: "Don't be so sure on that. I am reading a paperback copy with so very little fonts. Gosh I miss adjustable fonts in Kindle 😅"

Starting this when I get home. I too have that hefty paperback and I aint lumping it arnd in my tote bag.


message 20: by Zaara (last edited Oct 11, 2019 11:19PM) (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments Narilka wrote: "You are going to finish before me :) I have family in town and my reading time has gone down dramatically."

Naaaaaah, I have so many books open, it'll be a slow steady jog for me too...........


message 21: by Silvana (last edited Oct 12, 2019 12:39AM) (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) | 1763 comments 85 pages in and the bad memories came back

Paul was on his way to be the greatest (view spoiler) in SFF ever.

And this Bene Gesserit stuff is bothering me still. (view spoiler)


message 22: by Sha (new)

Sha | 1522 comments Hmm. One if those books I want to read but never got around to. // Signs up


message 23: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments At around 10% or page 57 in my copy. We've finally made it to Arrakis. I think almost all the players are in place.


message 24: by Zaara (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments I'm 105 pages in...just finished the unit/"chapter" which ends with Jessica thinking about Yeuh: "I should trust my friends more..." and (view spoiler)


Narilka wrote: "Not a huge spoiler since you'll read it within the first 6 pages but just in case [I wonder if Steven Erikson got the name for ..."

Heh, I thought of SE too Narilka :)) but was more along the lines of how (reading this I see) it wasn't too unusual for him (SE) to open a huge series by flinging us into the middle of a siege with absolutely no orientation at all. Because here too....all these complex relationships and cultures and mental "technologies" and actual tech...its lucky we only "met" two planets so far...all this came much earlier than Malazan...wonder how I'll feel reading Glenn Cook.

Silvana wrote: "85 pages in and the bad memories came back
Paul was on his way to be the greatest [spoilers removed] in SFF ever."


Yeap...the writing has that archaic 1967 tang...please forgive his Gary Stuness luv, its practically expected for the times...and I can see how this became such a classic it has "origin tropes" for soooo many things we recognise in later fantasy, right down to that mnemonic blink "photographic memory" thing and the vast strips flesh from the bones storms bad weather...😂😂😂


message 25: by Zaara (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments FullBook Plot Prediction spoiler
Can everyone see it coming ten miles away that (view spoiler)


message 26: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments Silvana wrote: "85 pages in and the bad memories came back

Paul was on his way to be the greatest [spoilers removed] in SFF ever.

And this Bene Gesserit stuff is bothering me still. [spoilers removed]"


I'm with Zaara. Paul's Gary Stuness doesn't bother me. It's fun to read classic SFF and see how it was the foundation of a lot of things to come. I'm also digging the old fashioned dialect.

I'm at about 20% which is page 102 in my copy. (view spoiler)


message 27: by Silvana (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) | 1763 comments Classic SFF triggers me a lot indeed now that I am older. I can't believe my excited reactions (ten years ago) when reading the first half of this book since apparently I missed the whole Bene Gesserit was about selective breeding and considered the unwanted as animals. the fatshaming of the Baron, the treatment of Leto towards Jessica, the gendered bias of women is all intuition and men is logic, the racism in Leto's thoughts about the Fremen (calling them creatures and such) etc etc - all of these are now overshadowing the things I still like about the book e.g. worldbuilding and Arrakis itself.


message 28: by Zaara (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments Silvana...oh of course...we were just "siscouraging" 😅...did not want you to lose mojo/enjoyment...because it IS a big book...
@all...I'm 250 pages in...my edition has just under 800 pages of core text (minus footnotes, terminology of the imperium/cartography notes, author's afterword and several appendices)...so I'm counting that as 30%

And to be fair on Paul, guys...I think much of his Gary Stuness aura comes from those chapter epigraphs written by the Princess NotLeia...god, I can never remember her name...haven't even met her yet but already have a hearty contempt...from the footnotes alone...she writes like a woman inflamed by hormones...swimming in a fug of emotions...wonder if those rose-tinted blinkers will ever come off or if she is doomed for eternity...the only epigraph where she earned a bit of my respect was the one where she spoke of sons and fathers..."there is no more terrible moment of enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man - with human flesh..."


message 29: by Zaara (last edited Oct 15, 2019 08:58AM) (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments 33%

Ohk so the "foul plot" thickens and the web tightens around our hapless duke and his lady...I wonder if it will become important going forward that (view spoiler) though I really admire Jessica the more for not pushing him into it, even with all those tools at hand. They really love each other...I think Thufir realised this in (view spoiler)

The Shadout Mapes creeps me out...I don't think she is as malevolent but she somehow reminds me of Mrs Danvers in Rebecca...but Kynes and Thufir I am liking...they are so interesting, as is that minstrel dude with the baliset (Idaho? For some reason, this surname puts me in mind of potatoes...I'm picturing a dumpy twisted guy with that scar)...but poor loyal Thufir, that honourable loyal heart is soon gonna break...

Now Duke Leto:
(view spoiler)

Poor darlings, their hearts 💔 are gonna break...they might die each thinking the other hated/judged/betrayed them...and only Paul holds the pieces...see...I like how mature and restrained the love track is...age appropriate...all in the eye contact, the little brushing touches as they pass, communicating without needing to actually speak...how well they love each other...but everything is going to be spoilt :((

Other scene I enjoyed so far...(view spoiler)


message 30: by Zaara (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments Also...fuuuu$k you guys...how close they are to (view spoiler) reminds me of watching Looming Tower (slow but xcellent) and Millenium Heist (meh!) but the point is...most of the really big sh!t going down is preventable...we already know...we just don't MOVE on the details we know...and when (view spoiler)...I was actually scared...I was all: "it's beginning"...but I didn't know what will come or from where...*clenchy feels* waiting for it is is somehow worse...I'm stopping there for the night, end of that unit...(view spoiler)

Where have you guys reached? How's it going??


message 31: by Silvana (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) | 1763 comments A little over page 207 or end of Book I.

(view spoiler)


message 32: by Zaara (last edited Oct 15, 2019 09:21AM) (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments Silvana wrote: "A little over page 207 or end of Book I."

Woow....haven't opened your spoiler 😂😂😂 Silvana, just to say....my Book 1 ends/Book 2 starts on p. 325...I have this hefty brick of an edition...so I only read it at night/home...


message 33: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments I'm just under 30%, page 146 of 489 pages of actual story. My end of book 1 is on page 199. The font is tiny! Anyway. (view spoiler)

The minstrel is Gurney Halleck.

I'm quite enjoying my reread. I like the way Herbert has mixed in the character's inner thoughts directly into the story. It adds something for me, esp with the Leto/Jessica situation. (view spoiler)


message 34: by Silvana (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) | 1763 comments The switching pov is enjoyable and feels organic


message 35: by Narilka (last edited Oct 16, 2019 02:47PM) (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments Just finished part 1. Now the real story can start! (view spoiler)

This just got hard to put down.

Edit to add (view spoiler)


message 36: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments Silvana wrote: "Classic SFF triggers me a lot indeed now that I am older. I can't believe my excited reactions (ten years ago) when reading the first half of this book since apparently I missed the whole Bene Gess..."

I sometimes have issues with Classic SF due to bad our extremely outdated science. It can pull me right out of a story. Thankfully I'm not having that issue with Dune. I totally killed my enjoyment of Jules Verne though.


message 37: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments Zaara wrote: "33%

Ohk so the "foul plot" thickens and the web tightens around our hapless duke and his lady...I wonder if it will become important going forward that [spoilers removed] though I really admire Je..."


Finally opened your spoilers because I wasn't sure I was at the same point yet :) (view spoiler)


message 38: by Zaara (last edited Oct 18, 2019 09:53AM) (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments Thru 50% (page 410) and since page numbers mean nothin' 😜 I'm about 75 odd pages into Part 2 and (view spoiler)

Ha 😂 yea thanks Narilka...I mixed up Halleck with Idaho...ooopp ☺️

Ok opened all the spoilers.

Re your spoilertext: Narilka wrote: "I totally forgot about..."
and basically the psychic awakening scene:

I actually felt that scene was a bit too much...in fact it has been my least favourite scene so far and no wonder you totally forgot it...😂😂😂 your mind must have blanked out the unsightliness of that "purple" prose...haha!
See...it was like he took every descriptive phrase he could and piled them on top of each other...after a while it became too much, like honey on top of sugar. Pages and pages of Paul *snirt* entering a theta state...wtf...ok we get it, Frank! His consciousness expanded and basically he Ascended. Wtf!

NB: With respect and for purely comparative purposes
(view spoiler)
And this is just me and basically nothing but a style preference (because I am very happy to be led if it is done subtly and skilfully with light, come hither touches) but whenever its "tell not show" in a scene...and especially if I am told by an author very strongly and repeatedly WHAT TO THINK AND FEEL, I immediately balk at it. I feel such repeated thrusting is the sign of supreme disrespect to a reader's intellect, like you are giving someone repeated instructions and a roadmap...I don't like my mind to be touched crassly and is a big difference in being touched strongly (and masterfully) and being pawed at. Erikson and Sanderson have spoiled me with their Ascension scenes.


message 39: by Zaara (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments Also the Gary Stuness:
(view spoiler)


message 40: by Zaara (last edited Oct 18, 2019 10:26AM) (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments Silvana...re the "fat shaming of the Baron"...yeah it is a bit cartoon, archaic, hurtful and just plain wrong that this was the only way they chose to make someone externally repulsive when ugliness is such a wide word.
And also how does internally evil automatically = physically ugly?? Outmoded and plain stupid heuristics again.
Also that (view spoiler)...frankly the Baron is written like Herbert took several shortcuts.
Even his internal monologues/megalomania (I am the Hunter/carnivore and everyone else is a "rabbit") is cartoon-y.

Now Piter (the Harkonen Mentat) was a much cooler snake whose slippery rustlings I'd liked to have seen more of...esp as an adversary to Jessica...(view spoiler)

I only warmed up (a little) to the quality of the Baron's evil (i.e. respected his villainy enough to consider him an antagonist) when he spoke of playing Kynes and Thaufir against each other in the interrogations and manipulating Thaufir into becoming a tame Mentat...

And speaking of Thaufir:
(view spoiler)


message 41: by Zaara (new)

Zaara | 4090 comments Narilka wrote: "This just got hard to put down."

O yea, don't get me wrong. Despite its archaic delivery mechanisms, I'm really enjoying and gobbling this book. It is making me think and not just in its treatment of themes on philosophy or ecology or culture...in terms of technique and genre too.
Always you can tell how engaged I am with a book by the length of my impassiomed prose. You should have seen the length of my Sanderson posts. I rant at what I love...it is like closing your hands into a fist over your man's chest to make a point when you're grumpy...you know it won't hurt him when you but you want to feel the heart under that solid wall of stubborness thumping back at you as you grumble and thump...😂😜

There is one scene I really liked (just before the drama of losing the pack) with Paul and Jess trudging in the desert. It isn't at all plot vital so I haven't even bothered spoilering it...just a detailed description of their trudge (view spoiler) but it made me think that Sanderson didn't/couldn't achieve this...detail and realism...in his scenes with Peter and Shallan wandering the Shattered Plaims...
+
Plus I'm beginning to realise just how much of a ripoff the entire schematic of the Shattered Plains is...right down to the chasmfiends (basically the worms), the gemhearts (currency just like "the spice"), the Fremen (the Parshendi)...the Empire...shall I go on?
Thank god Kaladim is nothing like Paul tho...😂😂😂 I can't even...


message 42: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments Zaara wrote: "Silvana...re the "fat shaming of the Baron"...yeah it is a bit cartoon, archaic, hurtful and just plain wrong that this was the only way they chose to make someone externally repulsive when uglines..."

Totally agree with your comment about Thifur. He sure has a huge blind spot for being a human computer.

Re: Desert trudging (view spoiler)

I think I said this in a previous post. This is my favorite part of reading classic SFF - seeing how they've inspired all that's come after. I had a similar feeling after reading The Odyssey earlier this year. I have deliberately held off reading Stormlight because I want to binge all 5 books in one shot when the first arc is completed, but I understand the sentiment :) WOT's Aiel are very reminiscent of the Fremen.

Tangent - Whenever Sanderson starts writing book 5 of Stormlight, I'm totally in for a read of the series to prep. I already own the first three and will buy #4 when it releases.


message 43: by Silvana (last edited Oct 20, 2019 07:51AM) (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) | 1763 comments I decided not to continue since I dreaded the moment I was reading the book, it made me unhappy and took away my precious reading time with all the other BRs lining up this month. Ten years ago I remember enjoying part I more than the rest but now I really did not like it so I fear the next ones would be a worse experience.

I am glad you both are enjoying it much more than I did, so kudos!


message 44: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments Silvana wrote: "I decided not to continue since I dreaded the moment I was reading the book, it made me unhappy and took away my precious reading time with all the other BRs lining up this month. Ten years ago I r..."

Sounds like you made the right choice.


message 45: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments Finished part 2. (view spoiler)


message 46: by Keli (new)

Keli | 32 comments I'm finally starting!


message 47: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments Keli wrote: "I'm finally starting!"

YAY!!

I'm 30 pages from the end so will finish tonight. It's been quite a journey.


message 48: by Keli (new)

Keli | 32 comments Narilka wrote: "Keli wrote: "I'm finally starting!"

YAY!!

I'm 30 pages from the end so will finish tonight. It's been quite a journey."


Wow. I'm doing the audio version, it's a mere 22 hours. I'm 2 hours in. But tomorrow and Thursday, I'll listen all day at work, so that should put me at more than halfway. It's pretty good so far. Though, it might have been easier to follow along if I was reading it. I might forget a name but remember a description but get a bit confused when another character pops up with the same description. 😐


message 49: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments Keli wrote: "Narilka wrote: "Keli wrote: "I'm finally starting!"

YAY!!

I'm 30 pages from the end so will finish tonight. It's been quite a journey."

Wow. I'm doing the audio version, it's a mere 22 hours. I'..."


About the only downside to audio is you don't get the glossary at the end. There are also several appendixes so I'm sure the story itself won't be all 22 hours.


message 50: by Narilka (new)

Narilka | 2419 comments I did finish. I'm not sure what to say really that can do the book justice. I need to think on it. Definitely enjoyed my reread.


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