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Books Read In 2019 > Silence - Spoilers - Discussion Leader - Marilyn

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message 1: by Loretta, Moderator (last edited Sep 01, 2019 11:27AM) (new)

Loretta | 3979 comments Mod
Please use this thread to discuss the book freely!

Member Marilyn has asked to lead the discussion!

Take it away Marilyn! 😊


message 2: by Marilyn (new)

Marilyn Most intriguing comment from the Martin Scorsese foreword:

"Endo looks at the problem of Judas more directly than any other artist I know. He understood that, in order for Christianity to live, to adapt itself to other cultures and historical moments, it needs not just the figure of Christ but the figure of Judas as well."

I suspect there may be more than one Judas in the story.


message 3: by Cleo (new)

Cleo (cleopatra18) | 205 comments Ah, interesting! What do you think he means by that?


message 4: by Marilyn (new)

Marilyn Not sure. Hopefully we can figure it out by the end of the book. It's a fascinating comment.

I've read the first 3 chapters and priests are still safely hidden. At this point the Judas seems obvious.


message 5: by Cleo (new)

Cleo (cleopatra18) | 205 comments I'm still waiting for a copy from the library unfortunately. 😟

I wonder if he means that there are two sides to every man, a side that wants to do good, but also another side that can turn to evil. If we only had the one side, it would be harder to identify with, but with both sides (Christ and Judas) it speaks more clearly to the universal human condition?

I do hope I get my book before the read is over!


message 6: by Loretta, Moderator (new)

Loretta | 3979 comments Mod
Cleo wrote: "I'm still waiting for a copy from the library unfortunately. 😟

I wonder if he means that there are two sides to every man, a side that wants to do good, but also another side that can turn to evil..."


No worries Cleo. We'll be here! ☺️


message 7: by Loretta, Moderator (new)

Loretta | 3979 comments Mod
Marilyn wrote: "Not sure. Hopefully we can figure it out by the end of the book. It's a fascinating comment.

I've read the first 3 chapters and priests are still safely hidden. At this point the Judas seems obvious."


I agree Marilyn. Kichijiro is our Judas but he's a troubled soul.


message 8: by Tracey (last edited Sep 06, 2019 12:36PM) (new)

Tracey (traceyrb) Great points ladies. Judas was a believer, a disciple, before he became a traitor. But then Peter also betrayed Christ. One repented and went on to glory, one was destroyed. So yes I think there is the disciple and the traitor in all of us and the question is not whether we will fall down, because that’s a given, but whether we will look to God and get back up.


message 9: by Marilyn (new)

Marilyn Tracey the Bookworm wrote: "Great points ladies. Judas was a believer, a disciple, before he became a traitor. But then Peter also betrayed Christ. One repented and went on to glory, one was destroyed. So yes I think there is..."

Is this why Kichijiro keeps coming back to the priest? He can't get back up on his own?


message 10: by Marilyn (new)

Marilyn Throughout his incarceration Rodrigues asserted that God was silent. Was God silent?


message 11: by Frances (new)

Frances Richardson | 2 comments Bishop Robert Barron has an excellent commentary on the movie in which he interestingly contrasts the way the book ends with the Hollywood interpretation of the last Jesuit’s fate.


message 12: by Loretta, Moderator (last edited Sep 07, 2019 06:29PM) (new)

Loretta | 3979 comments Mod
Frances wrote: "Bishop Robert Barron has an excellent commentary on the movie in which he interestingly contrasts the way the book ends with the Hollywood interpretation of the last Jesuit’s fate."

Hollywood sensationalism at its best I guess....but maybe not...


message 13: by Bryan--The Bee’s Knees (last edited Sep 07, 2019 06:35PM) (new)

Bryan--The Bee’s Knees (theindefatigablebertmcguinn) | 275 comments Marilyn wrote: "Throughout his incarceration Rodrigues asserted that God was silent. Was God silent?"

I read the book last year, and I've been following the comments here. I like this point you raise, Marilyn--here is a quote from the review I wrote after reading it:

"My conclusion, by the end of the tale? That God is silent when one is only listening for one particular answer, but that doesn’t mean nothing’s been said."

ETA: Now that I read that sentence, I feel like it's pretty horrible English, but I'll leave it as it is, since I think it does communicate what I felt. (I may sneak back in and edit my review though)


message 14: by Loretta, Moderator (new)

Loretta | 3979 comments Mod
I finished reading this today. I gave it five stars even though it disturbed me greatly....


message 15: by Marilyn (new)

Marilyn Bryan "goes on a bit too long" wrote: "Marilyn wrote: "Throughout his incarceration Rodrigues asserted that God was silent. Was God silent?"

I read the book last year, and I've been following the comments here. I like this point you ra..."


I agree. I wondered what he expected God to do. If we believe God is all around us, there were several references to nature. He heard the birds singing in the trees. A fly buzzed around his head. He could have interpreted these things as the presence of God.


message 16: by Marilyn (new)

Marilyn I thought the interpreter's preface gave a good explanation of Endo's references to the Japanese swamp. (page xx) What do you think about the argument that Christianity was not compatible with Japanese culture?


message 17: by Marilyn (new)

Marilyn Loretta wrote: "I finished reading this today. I gave it five stars even though it disturbed me greatly...."

Would you like to expand your thoughts? There were many disturbing aspects to the story - physical, psychological and spiritual.


message 18: by Loretta, Moderator (new)

Loretta | 3979 comments Mod
Thanks for leading this discussion Marilyn! 😊


message 19: by Michaela (new)

Michaela | 119 comments I finished the book a few days ago, and could only read it in small parts (though I knew the film) because of all the violence, the hopeless atmosphere etc., but I also found it interesting in dealing with missionaries as such, adapting religion to a land where it hasn´t been before and all the aspects of faith.


message 20: by Loretta, Moderator (new)

Loretta | 3979 comments Mod
Michaela wrote: "I finished the book a few days ago, and could only read it in small parts (though I knew the film) because of all the violence, the hopeless atmosphere etc., but I also found it interesting in deal..."

I'm glad you were able to finish the book Michaela. It sounds like you enjoyed it, for the most part. As I said, I found the book quite disturbing but I really enjoyed it.


message 21: by Michaela (new)

Michaela | 119 comments Yes Loretta, I found it fascinating and gave it 5 stars, as it contains a lot of stuff for thought.


message 22: by Loretta, Moderator (new)

Loretta | 3979 comments Mod
Michaela wrote: "Yes Loretta, I found it fascinating and gave it 5 stars, as it contains a lot of stuff for thought."

I also gave the book five stars Michaela. I watched the movie afterwards too and found it just as disturbing.


message 23: by John (new)

John I happened to come across this article yesterday...https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-5...


message 24: by Loretta, Moderator (new)

Loretta | 3979 comments Mod
John wrote: "I happened to come across this article yesterday...https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-5..."

Wow! That was really interesting John. Thank you so much for posting. I sent it off to my brother, sister and cousin.


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