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**I'M DONE!! SO DISCOURAGED & READY TO QUIT**
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Google it sometime. Leisure reading has been on a decline for decades. People still read, sure, but not like they did some years ago.
Dwayne wrote: "Tomas wrote: "I don't think reading is on the decline."Google it sometime. Leisure reading has been on a decline for decades. People still read, sure, but not like they did some years ago."
Yes, I know. Reading has been on a decline. Also attention span is much shorter now. I think there is so much information out there that people cannot concentrate on any one thing for long. A quick read like a tweet or a quick video on YouTube and they move on. Sad really.
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It saddens me when authors say things like this. There can never be "too many books". If we must blame the decline on reading on anything, let's not turn on our own medium. How about there's too much television? Too many movies? Too much Netflix, Twitter, Facebook, video games, memes...
If there is too much of anything, literary wise, we Indies need - really need - to become more aware that there are too many Indie books being published that are sub-par. I read a lot of Indie books and frankly, many are disappointing. Instead of blaming other authors for putting out "too many books", let's focus the blame on ourselves for putting out books that no one wants to buy because we were in too great a rush to publish and didn't want to edit.
NOTE: This is a blanket statement and in no way am I targeting any individuals. Please don't respond to this with examples of poorly done books you've read. This is meant to encourage all of us to be our best and not knock any individual down.
Dwayne wrote: "Sam wrote: "And so it is with books. There are too many of them."It saddens me when authors say things like this. There can never be "too many books". If we must blame the decline on reading on a..."
Absolutely agree, Dwayne, I think we're just saying the same thing in different ways. Couldn't agree more.
When all else fails, you can always try and help someone else. :)Some of you do, and do quite a bit. Others do nothing but complain.
@ Ryan. Conventions and fairs are social events. If the guy on your cover looks like someone who writes manifestos and then acts on them - the antithesis of social - and no one is interested? Go figure.
I think everyone who has written anything can appreciate this post. I write for a VERY small niche group of people for Non-Fiction /Theology. I can very much appreciate the frustration etc.. This is particularly difficult when you work full time and your "hobby" is writing. There is simply that combination of both no time and no money.. makes one feel like you were back in college again LOL. I am preparing my 2nd book, and so I really know little to nothing.. At this point I have just decided that I am looking at my writing as a retirement plan. I honestly have lost the will to stress about sales.. because I have zero time for marketing .. and no money to pay someone else to do it for me.. I have decided I am content in writing for writing's sake.. and if there are people who want to read then they will otherwise it will wait until I have retired from the day job to do marketing . I am still happy to get new suggestions from the group.. and greatly appreciate the community ! Hang in there ! Dont let the hate of sales and marketing kill your love of writing ! Just do it !
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Long-term, sure, because there was almost no alternative in the past. In the scope of the last few years, I am not sure it's that bad. E-readers had brought some people back to reading - especially younger people and students (who would face space issues with print books).
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Since the evil moderators will be upset if I post a link, I'll type out some of the info I'm getting from the Washington Post in June of last year. In 2003, 29.2% of women read on a daily basis, 23.1% of men and 26.3% combined. In 2017 that had dropped to 22% for women, 15% for men, and 19% combined. The age group with the largest number of readers was 65+ with roughly 57% in 2003 and about 38% in 2017. And it fits in a pattern that the younger the age group, the less they read. The lowest age group was 15 to 24 with roughly 12% in 2003 and about 9% in 2017.
We can hope that as people age they become more interested in reading, otherwise leisure reading may become an antiquated pastime. I doubt it will ever completely die off, but I wonder how much more it will decline before it at least levels off.
Dwayne wrote: "Sam wrote: "And so it is with books. There are too many of them."It saddens me when authors say things like this. There can never be "too many books". If we must blame the decline on reading on a..."
Books that are poorly written by Indie writers are not a competition in any form or shape. People simply won't buy books that have no reviews or ratings. So we can dispense with them. However, we are in competition with what the Internet provides by way of entertainment. The Internet has opened a door for us Indie writers to publish our work but also has closed the door to our readers. Back in the day, people used to go to bed with a good book; now they spend their time on Twitter, FB, etc,etc. Also promoting yourself has become an impossible ordeal. Back in the day, magazines, not literary magazine, used to publish short stories, now they don't. So where do you go to get your name out there. Well, I went through all the proper steps to get my name out there. Thirteen years ago I fell into writing. Having just graduated from uni with a degree in ancient history, my dream was to write a historical fiction set in ancient Judaea and Rome (not Ben Hur). Something that it was fresh and new. The word count was 200,000. Silly me. No agent would take on a new author who has written a novel of such length. I wrote a smaller novel and searched for agents. No dice. So I took what advice was available and followed it. I sat and wrote 20 short stories and poems. Short stories were between 4000-5000 words. My poems too each told a story. It took me a few years to complete them all. Then I set up my own website where I could post my stories and poems over a period of a few years. And I joined Reddit and linked my stories to Reddit. A few I posted on Medium too and got good responses from readers by way of up-votes. And I wrote my first science fiction novella. I knew it was foolhardy to write a full length novel because my observation had shown that people's attention span was shrinking. Prior to publishing it, I set up a Twitter account to get a decent following. I had chosen the correct target group too. In three months I have sold nine copies, got one review and two five star ratings. Then sales dried up. I will probably sell one or two more books and that will be the end of it. The book took two years to write and edit. I even consulted an actual physicist to get the science right. I did research into other aspects of the story too. With English being my second language, the editing was a bit of challenge, but not too much. If I wasn't sure about something I would google it. I made sure there were no plot holes. Not a moment went by that I was not thinking of any possible plot holes. Next year, I will be releasing my second novella; a fantasy horror. By Next Christmas I will put out my historical fiction. And in 2021 I will release all my short stories and poems as a collection in an e-book. By that time, if I am still selling a few books here and a few books there, I have to reconsider the whole thing.
Dwayne wrote: "Sam wrote: "And so it is with books. There are too many of them."It saddens me when authors say things like this. There can never be "too many books". If we must blame the decline on reading on a..."
About sub-par books, Dwayne--I agree, but who gets to decide what "subpar" means. Lack of editing, yes, but also lack of grammar skills, punctuation skills, and lack of other things various readers think will be in the book that are not. it is the author's fault for poor editing, but it is also the fault of the author for a book that does not sake the reader's desire for story that the reader thought the book would accomplish (based on reviews or blurbs or summaries posted on the back of the book or at the site the book is sold on.). As for why readers do not buy the book, it is likely because no one has heard of it, or the author.
Face it folks--unless you are a celebrity or have strong connections to the publishing or whatever industry ("it's not what you know, it's who you know"), you are not likely to sell lots of books. The first really successful self-published author was James Redfield (The Celestine Prophecy), but that was because he was in a large religious group with the funding to promote the book such that all "church" or whatever members bought the book, read it then told their friends and the book spread like wildfire. He made it big because of "who he knew." I myself have sold a lot of books over 20 plus years where I live (rural far west Texas, and my books aren't even Westerns!). Why? Because people know me, and newcomers find out about me and buy my books (print and ebook). Other than where I live, few have bought my books. And that folks is generally the way it is.
You write because you are inspired to. If you are writing to get rich, you'll just have to become a celebrity, somehow...
Blue wrote: "Dwayne wrote: "Sam wrote: "And so it is with books. There are too many of them."It saddens me when authors say things like this. There can never be "too many books". If we must blame the decline ..."
Blue, I have no idea where you live with English as a second language but sounds like you are discouraged with lack of book sales. Most of my book sales (and nearly all print books) have been sold to folks either living or visiting my area (which has a low population density--rural far west Texas, Big Bend area loaded with cowboys and such). My books are not about cowboys or westerns, either. But folks buy my books because folks they meet suggest buying my books (which is a trilogy, fiction, inspired). If your book is an ebook, tell folks about it and give them flyers about the ebook or put up flyers yourself with links to Amazon, etc. I know marketing book on Twitter or Facebook etc. helps, but face to face is still, IMHO, the best way to market-sell your books, including ebooks. Because one cannot depend on reviews or ratings.
Deborah wrote: "Blue wrote: "Dwayne wrote: "Sam wrote: "And so it is with books. There are too many of them."It saddens me when authors say things like this. There can never be "too many books". If we must blame..."
I am Persian by birth. I live in a big city in Queensland, Australia. Over 2 million poulation I have no chance of advertising myself with flyers. And the people I know, like neighbor and such, are not readers. That is they don't read novels. They know of my website but never once visited it to read my work. I even encountered this on Twitter. My followers from twitter go to my website and read the first thing they see which is a short poem and say their wows but then they go off onto something else. There is no desire for reading. There is no intellectual curiosity to discover my other works that are there for free. Another thing about Twitter is that it does get tiring. You have to read tweets and then RT and make your tweet - the never ending cycle of tweets. Psychologically, I do not know how I am going to cope with all of this in a long run. Hence, the decision that I might quit writing in a couple of years from now.
Blue wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Blue wrote: "Dwayne wrote: "Sam wrote: "And so it is with books. There are too many of them."It saddens me when authors say things like this. There can never be "too many books". ..."
Sorry to hear that, Blue, about the fact that no one in your area reads or has serious interest in your books or writings. I have lived in big cities (NYC, Houston, Texas) and it is true for you about lack of interest. It's just another reason I love living in a rural or small town area...as a saying goes on a 1980s TV show, Cheers, "...everybody knows your name" in my area. Whatever you decide, blessings to you!
Deborah wrote: "Blue wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Blue wrote: "Dwayne wrote: "Sam wrote: "And so it is with books. There are too many of them."It saddens me when authors say things like this. There can never be "too ..."
Thanks. Blessings to you too.
Yesterday I did a book reading of the first book in my series at one of my local libraries. The library advertised the event on their website and even gave me a flyer to post on my website. Only a handful of people attended but the discussion that followed my reading was animated and encouraging and at the end, two of the attendees checked out the two copies the library has. They also promised to attend my next reading of the second book in the series. I didn't make any money from the event, but more people are now reading my book.My point is that yes, reading may be on the decline, but that doesn't mean we should stop writing. If people come across a book that interests them they will read it and tell others about it. Check out your local library and see what happens.
Ryan wrote: "I'm just tired of the industry. Getting the next big "lead" and having hope grow up inside me again, only to be let down again, over and over. Sitting at show after show, watching hundreds of peopl..."I was seriously considering to quit writing after next year. (I have a novella and a novel coming out next year. They are already written and I am just in the process of editing them.) I even posted a few comments here about quitting writing. But after reading everybody's comment here and after much reflection, I decided to stay the course. And I made this decision knowing that I am never going to make it big, that I may forever remain an unknown. But there is this: how can I give up on love? I love writing. I wish I could share my stories with the world, instead of selling a few books here and a few books there. Promotion is very difficult and frankly very time consuming. I can use that time writing. The thing is that I have invested 13 years of my life learning how to write well. So the question is: am I willing to just give up on it? I have stories to tell. I dream my stories. And just because I give up on writing, it does not mean that my dreams will stop. So what do I really have to lose if I continue writing? Not becoming famous?! Not becoming rich?! I don't think these are valid reasons for giving up on something that has become part of my soul. Part of my very being. Writing has become me. And I can't give up on me.
Blue wrote: "Ryan wrote: "I'm just tired of the industry. Getting the next big "lead" and having hope grow up inside me again, only to be let down again, over and over. Sitting at show after show, watching hund..."Blue, there is no sample of your book in Amazon; you know, that thingy that says "look inside" and then lets potential buyers read the first few pages of the book. Even if somebody's interest was piqued and they wanted to take a risk on your book, it would be difficult to make the jump not because of money but because of a lack of incentive to spend time on it. Please take this just as a friendly suggestion. :-)
Roxanna wrote: "Blue wrote: "Ryan wrote: "I'm just tired of the industry. Getting the next big "lead" and having hope grow up inside me again, only to be let down again, over and over. Sitting at show after show, ..."There is a sample of my book. You can look inside. I just did it myself in a private window. Are you using the Amazon.com website or the app?
Blue wrote: "Roxanna wrote: "Blue wrote: "Ryan wrote: "I'm just tired of the industry. Getting the next big "lead" and having hope grow up inside me again, only to be let down again, over and over. Sitting at s..."The website.
Roxanna wrote: "Blue wrote: "Roxanna wrote: "Blue wrote: "Ryan wrote: "I'm just tired of the industry. Getting the next big "lead" and having hope grow up inside me again, only to be let down again, over and over...."Is it Amazon.com (the US site), or a non-US version of the Amazon website? I just looked again at the US, UK, Australian, and German sites, and the "look inside" works for me. Also, are you using Kindle Unlimited? Because my book is not in the Kindle Unlimited program.
Blue wrote: "Ryan wrote: "I'm just tired of the industry. Getting the next big "lead" and having hope grow up inside me again, only to be let down again, over and over. Sitting at show after show, watching hund..."Good for you, Blue! Even if I wanted to I couldn't give up writing. After 9-11, and all the various theories about it and then the afterwards wars and then home schooling my kids and then being our POA office manager I pretty much gave up finishing my trilogy. But in 2015 I retired (I am 66) because I was given a talent (no religious discussion so I'll let you figure that one out) so that was when I finished the trilogy and now it is for sale on various e-platforms. I could have given up as well but have not and will not. Inspiration never gives up.
Write for passion. Not for profit. Write the stories you wish you existed when you were in your youth. It shouldn't be about the money. It should be for the joy of telling the story. The fun of creating. Making money is the byproduct of tye above passion, joy, and creativity. The moment you put those on the back burner and make profit the priority; that's when your work suffers. The quality of your stories sinks and people can read right through it. That's my two sense anyway. Hope it helps anyone and everyone who needs it.
Blue wrote: "Roxanna wrote: "Blue wrote: "Roxanna wrote: "Blue wrote: "Ryan wrote: "I'm just tired of the industry. Getting the next big "lead" and having hope grow up inside me again, only to be let down again..."Might be because I am in Qatar which is not really in-sync with the rest of the world.
Steve wrote: "Write for passion. Not for profit. Write the stories you wish you existed when you were in your youth. It shouldn't be about the money. It should be for the joy of telling the story. The fun of cre..."I think I really needed to hear this right now. I'm working on a first draft and finding it hard not to become overwhelmed by trying to second-guess what readers will think about the story. I always find first drafts difficult but your words gave me a boost, I need to remember to have fun with it rather than focus entirely on the end product :)
L.K. wrote: "Steve wrote: "Write for passion. Not for profit. Write the stories you wish you existed when you were in your youth. It shouldn't be about the money. It should be for the joy of telling the story. ..."I had the same issue. Especially when the time came to finally publish. Best thing to do is try not to think about it. Just concentrate on getting your story on paper...or computer (whichever way you prefer to write). Get it out the way YOU want it to be. You will be surprised of the results when you get the finished product out there.
Just like anything else. Take it one step at a time.
I'm glad I could help :)
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That's a narrow and rocky road to go down. I know many "experts" say you need to find a target audience and write for them, but I believe that only really works when you're writing formulaic fiction. And there are people who want and expect that kind of thing.
If you're trying to be even a little original and trying not to follow a formula, don't second guess what readers want or expect or what they're going to like or what they're going to hate. This guy will love a chapter that that woman hated. This guy will hate a character that that lady disliked. This lady will like a joke that fell flat for that man. And so on.
Too much second guessing tends to take you down one of two paths. Either you're going to end up with a story that's so bland no one will really love it or you won't be able to finish it at all. So, write it the way you want to write it and don't look back.
Roxanna wrote: "Blue wrote: "Roxanna wrote: "Blue wrote: "Roxanna wrote: "Blue wrote: "Ryan wrote: "I'm just tired of the industry. Getting the next big "lead" and having hope grow up inside me again, only to be l..."Oh, it could be.
Deborah wrote: "Blue wrote: "Ryan wrote: "I'm just tired of the industry. Getting the next big "lead" and having hope grow up inside me again, only to be let down again, over and over. Sitting at show after show, ..."There are some similarities between your story and mine. :) No, I won't give up writing. During the weeks that I wanted to give up writing, I went into depression. But now that I have changed my mind I am as happy as a lark.
Get it out the way YOU want it to be. You will be surprised of the results when you get the finished product out there.This is my sixth book now, so you'd think I'd feel a bit more confident about the process! I do in some ways, and I've tried to plan out this book in more detail which has helped, but I still find the journey of writing a first draft a bit uncomfortable! I prefer second and third drafts when things are less unknown!
L.K. wrote: "Get it out the way YOU want it to be. You will be surprised of the results when you get the finished product out there.This is my sixth book now, so you'd think I'd feel a bit more confident abou..."
Maybe I should be taking advice from you. I only have one book out so far lol.
After the 2nd and 3rd draft (8th, 9th...) editing gets a little tedious for me. The first draft is the most exciting.
Jason wrote: "After the 2nd and 3rd draft (8th, 9th...) editing gets a little tedious for me. The first draft is the most exciting."I totally agree with you on this one. The creating part is the most fun. The fine tuning, detailing, and perfecting is what makes it "WORK".
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Yep, drafting can get tedious and, if you find the need for a major change, even frustrating. Which is why I started to work on early drafts of the sequels between drafting passes, to keep doing something fully creative.
And then, I just go back to drafting #1.
Dory humming "Just keep swimming, just keep swimming..."
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Dwayne wrote: "Huh. I always thought the most creative part was the rewrites and the edits. That's where you're taking a big pile of shit (your rough draft) and making it into something spectacular. It's where th..."This is how I feel too, it's not just you!
Hey Ryan, Welcome to marketing (or lack thereof).
One thing I'm sure of - the fact that you're having a tough time doesn't mean your writing is bad. Let's run the numbers: suppose there are 100 million adult readers. Suppose 1 out of a hundred likes your books. You might then get 1 million sales.
That's a blockbuster, my man; that's JK Rowling stuff. Even so, even with a million in sales, for every reader who likes your books, there are 99 who either don't like you or don't care.
I have one piece of advice: if you're going to market, do it in mass scale. With a hit rate of 1 percent (or worse), you have to do it in scale. So find an outfit on the internet that does book promotion for a reasonable price. Twitter ads, that sort of thing.
Forget all the old-fashioned stuff (e.g. book tours), and be consoled that we're all chasing a contracting market; it's ain't easy for any of us.
I hope this helps.
Roger
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What I meant by 'drafting can be tedious' are the countless small changes of mechanical nature with little creativity (when I hammer out the first draft, it's riddled with typos and overloaded sentences which are not fun to fix).
The frustrating part (at least for me) is not the change I am making in a draft but the process before I make it: figuring out what's the problem and how to fix it. When it happens and ma imagination comes back... yay!
To be honest, there are several scenes I created in later drafts I love and it was fun to write them. But during those, time tends to fly while the 'mechanical edits' just feel endless.
In other words, it depends on what the focus of an editing pass is.
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Dwayne wrote: "Tomas, have you tried combining the "creative" and "mechanical" edits? There's no reason you can't look for things to change creatively while looking for typos and other errors."I've tried but I find that I need two very distinct states of mind for each task, so that if I mix them up I do them not as efficiently as if I had separated each task to begin with.
I agree, I try to get everything in my head down first, then worry about the mechanics during the last drafts.
Roger wrote: "Hey Ryan, Welcome to marketing (or lack thereof).
One thing I'm sure of - the fact that you're having a tough time doesn't mean your writing is bad. Let's run the numbers: suppose there are 100 m..."
Any suggestions on an a good company with reasonable prices?
Hi Randall, Two comments: first, I don't bother with pay per click ads. The cost is too high to be viable for (new) ebooks, which have very low margins.
Second, booksbutterfly.com has a number of relatively inexpensive (short term) ad programs designed for free or low cost books. Hundreds of dollars, not thousands.
I'm looking for outfits that might offer long-term ad programs; I can't recommend any at the moment, I haven't tried that yet.
Hope this helps.
Roger Alan Bonner
My first book came out in 2009. I have three out now and about 4 short stories. Fourth book nearly finished. So far I've basically made a loss. It's very very hard to get traction. Unfortunately writing is what I'm good at. The people that have read my stuff seem to like it, so its not a matter of writing better, its a matter of getting noticed. Writing is the easy part. I wish I could be more encouraging.
Bruno wrote: "My first book came out in 2009. I have three out now and about 4 short stories. Fourth book nearly finished. So far I've basically made a loss. It's very very hard to get traction. Unfortunately wr..."As a writer I had to come to terms, which I did very recently, with the fact that I may never get noticed. The thing is that in this business you need luck. Just being a good writer is not enough.
I know what you mean. At first it was exciting when it became easier and easier to get a book out there. The problem is, everyone has put something out there. Sometimes it feels like there are more writers than readers!
Patience, folks. It takes a long time - decades, not years - to get anywhere in fiction, and it always has.
Look at the Lord of the Rings series, or the Game of Thrones series. These things were huge successes which took decades to become popular.
The beauty of it is, while you're waiting for success, you have all those years to enjoy dreaming about being successful.
So... anybody convinced yet???
Roger wrote: "Patience, folks. It takes a long time - decades, not years - to get anywhere in fiction, and it always has.
Look at the Lord of the Rings series, or the Game of Thrones series. These things were ..."
I think the wise thing to do as a writer is to stop thinking about success and money and instead focus on what we create. If the lords of success and money decide to drop by and bless us with their presence, then fantastic, if not, we keep on doing what we do best - write.
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Things I count as successes:
Being proud of my work.
Trying something new in my stories and being pleased with the results.
Weeping like a baby when I come up with a great ending to a story.
Writing something that is better than I've ever written before.
Having someone, sometimes years, after they've read a story of mine, talk to me about the story and still remember details about it.
Looking over an abandoned, terrible rough draft and finding a way to salvage it.
When you love writing more than you love money, success is easy.
"I love your script," he said.
"Thanks," I said. There was a silence. "So, what now?"
"What do you mean?" asked the the casting director.
"I mean .... do you want to attach yourself to the project?" I asked. "And help me get it to some actors that might get the film made?"
"Oh, no," the casting director said without hesitation. "I was just letting you know I read it as a favor to [the producer], and I actually really liked it. Is all."
"Well why won't you rep it then?" I said.
"Because," he said. "There are too many scripts. Who are you? No one knows your name. No one will read it, even if I tell them to. There's just too many scripts."
And that was that.
And so it is with books. There are too many of them. The reading public cannot absorb the million-plus self published e-books dumped into the marketplace every year. Simple as that. There are too many books.
So....why write at all? That's a question only you can answer for yourself. If it's anything other than "because I like/want/need to," you are destined for disappointment. I'm only just now in my 3rd year of exploring this corner of the writing world and I assure you money is not the draw. Freedom from the gatekeepers and total creative control are the only upsides I can see to this endeavor.