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Grammar Central > 'Punctuation hero' branded a vandal for painting apostrophes on street signs

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message 2: by Ken (new)

Ken | 18313 comments Mod
Hysterical that he was "turned in" by neighbors. AND that some neighbors prefer the misspelled version.

If that's a vandal, then I'm going to rewrite my sentence: If thats a vandal, then Im going to rewrite my sentence.

Happy, neighbors? (Those daft Brits.)


message 3: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6387 comments Mod
You spelled neighbours wrongly.....I am going to report you as an English language vandal.


message 4: by Gail (new)

Gail | 9 comments I'm going to this article when I teach "Signos de Punctuación" in my Spanish class.


message 5: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments They should put his face on American dollars'.


message 6: by Ken (new)

Ken | 18313 comments Mod
Free the "u," free the "u"!

Good luck with it, Gail!


message 7: by Ken (new)

Ken | 18313 comments Mod
Gabi for Prime Mini'ster!


message 8: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 15767 comments Mod
Nothing new under the sun. Way back in the Prehistoric, Van Nuys Junior High School, 1949, it was considered clever to write "Bored of Education" across one's notebook.


message 9: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6387 comments Mod
Gabigabigabi!!!!!! You ARE grumpy!! Come on girl....that should be "fuck off"!! Remember??!! WE use the 'u'!!!


message 10: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments I coulda been a contender.


message 11: by Åsa (new)

Åsa (hallon02) | 3 comments Haha. Maybe our new favorite vandal should take a look at the sign for Men's Clothes I saw on my vacation.


message 12: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments I thought the correct expression was, "Piss off, wanker!"

Sometimes translated as "Smarmy little weasel!"


message 13: by Rowena (new)

Rowena (rowenacherry) | 33 comments What's wrong with Men's Clothes?

Åsa wrote: "Haha. Maybe our new favorite vandal should take a look at the sign for Men's Clothes I saw on my vacation."




message 14: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6387 comments Mod
I think it should read Mens' Clothes (plural possessive).


message 15: by Ken (new)

Ken | 18313 comments Mod
Men is already plural, so I vote for "men's clothes."


message 16: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6387 comments Mod
Aaaah....I did wonder......

Or should it just be mens clothes as it is used more as an adjective rather than a possesive thingee....?


message 17: by Rowena (new)

Rowena (rowenacherry) | 33 comments I agree with Newengland.

Debbie, a "possessive thingee" is more traditionally known to us dinosaurs of grammar as "an adjective of possession". It's not a choice, it's a subgroup (one of several).

So, it is men's clothes, ladies' clothes, children's clothes, princesses' clothes, Jesus's clothes, a man's clothes, a lady's clothes, a child's clothes, a princess's clothes.

At least, it was that way in 1970 when I was a British student of English Language.



message 18: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments Anyone wanna buy the laundry concession at a nudist colony? The pay is lousy, but it's light work.


message 19: by Robyn (new)

Robyn | 387 comments




message 20: by Robyn (new)

Robyn | 387 comments I wouldn't normally argue with a dinosaur of grammar - especially about adjectives of possession - but in this instance I would like to record my two bobs worth - it's Jesus' clothes... not Jesus's clothes; Dr. Seuss' sense of humour;

Of course I can find someone to agree with me - you always can on the web:

"It is customary, however, to omit the 's when the last syllable of the name is pronounced /-IZ/, as in Bridges', Moses'. Jesus' is an acceptable liturgical archaism."

and

"B. The bare apostrophe is preferred:
- for words ending in -nce (stance');
- for many classical names (Aristophanes', Jesus', Moses');
- where the juxtaposition of two or more [s:] sounds would
cause an awkwardness in pronunciation (thesis')."
http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts...

http://stason.org/TULARC/languages/en...


"It is as simple as that. However, we do have one area of particular difficulty – the matter of singular nouns ending in s. Here, the usual rule is to add apostrophe + s ('s) to the s-ending singular as long as pronouncing the extra syllable (which sounds like "iz" or "ziz") is not awkward. Thus, we have: James's house, Tess's car, and the boss's office. Some s-ending singular nouns, however, become awkward to say if we add "iz" or "ziz" to them. Try sounding out "Jesus(iz) teachings," "Moses(iz) laws," or "Sophocles(iz) plays." It's tough. Thus, in these instances, we use only the apostrophe: Jesus' teachings, Moses' laws, or Sophocles' plays. In such instances, though, we should try to avoid using the possessive case altogether and write: the teachings of Jesus, the laws of Moses, the plays of Sophocles."

http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com...

"Exceptions are the names "Jesus" and "Moses" and Greek (or hellenized) names of more than one syllable ending in "es":
Jesus' nativity, Moses' leadership, Euripides' plays, Demosthenes' orations, Rameses' tomb, Xerxes' army"

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_bo...

So, sorry, I'm sticking with Jesus' teachings...

Right, I've said my tuppence ha'penny worth, now I'll shut up.




message 21: by Ken (new)

Ken | 18313 comments Mod
Yeah, I've seen that hair split before, too (on the 's or just ' thing). Only thing is, I can never remember the rule (or the sound, or the exception, or most anything anymore).

Thanks for the reminder, Robyn.


message 22: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments NE, do you prefer your hare jugged?


message 23: by Ken (new)

Ken | 18313 comments Mod
I use wineskins, not jugs. What do you take me for... Snuffy Smith?


message 24: by Rowena (new)

Rowena (rowenacherry) | 33 comments Thanks, Robyn.

As you say, enunciating Jesusiz and Mosesiz is clunky. I included Jesus in full expectation of discussion. I wonder whether that explains why He is also called Jesu in some works?

However, I've never seen Moses referred to as Mose!

I did add the caveat about the 1970's in Britain.

Punctuation is intended as a courtesy to the reader, in order to make the writer's meaning more clear than it would otherwise be.

I wonder how helpful the rules about Euripedes and Xerxes et alia would be if we didn't all know who these great men were?


message 25: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments Actually, in Hebrew, "Moses" is "Moshé."


message 26: by Ken (new)

Ken | 18313 comments Mod
More and more modern writers are giving up the use of quotation marks for dialogue. Can you say, "Annoying!"?


message 27: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 15767 comments Mod
I like the clean look it gives to the text. I tend to leave them out in poems unless it's not understandable without them.

That said, in novels I prefer having them.


message 28: by Ken (new)

Ken | 18313 comments Mod
Yes. I speak of novels. Hopefully it's a passing fad.


message 29: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments Not in movies?


message 30: by Ken (new)

Ken | 18313 comments Mod
No, never in movies, though I have a few TV shows to my credit.


message 31: by Robyn (new)

Robyn | 387 comments It reminds me of when I first learned sign language and learned New Zealand sign, where we had to sign the apostrophes and commas etc! Tedious. Then I learned Makaton which is more or less shorthand sign - the absolute opposite.

Imagine if all the characters in movies had to sign in the speech marks!




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