The Scrolls of Lankhmar discussion

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Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser > 2) "The Snow Women" Discussion

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message 1: by Dan (last edited Jul 02, 2019 09:51AM) (new)

Dan | 57 comments Mod
This topic is created to discuss the 1970 novella. Since "Induction" was so short, I figure we can read this July 3-31. The first question that comes to my mind: Is Leiber's story in any way related to Hans Christian Anderson's The Snow Queen?


message 2: by Charles (new)

Charles | 56 comments Mod
Back in my 2007 reading, I made some comments on the story on the Fritz Leiber WIKI.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I'll be very brief here to avoid spoilers. My main two points back then were that the premise of "The Snow Women" has a community of wives who form a coven of witches, which is similar to Conjure Wife, which has a community of wives who are witches. Both sisterhoods work towards manipulating their husbands through magic.

My other point was that oppression was a major theme in the story. It comes up often in the word choices, especially those involving the "ice magic." David hit it on the head when he came up with "smothering mothering."


message 3: by Kateblue (last edited Jul 06, 2019 11:50AM) (new)

Kateblue | 31 comments Well, first I must say that as I am reading there's a glaring point of view error. It has been in third person so far, but then suddenly we are in Fafhrd's head when "he did find it a bit difficult not to weave in his stride or duck his head a trifle . . . "

Pulled me right out of the picture Leiber was painting.


message 4: by Kateblue (last edited Jul 06, 2019 01:37PM) (new)

Kateblue | 31 comments Wow! "A woman must always keep all ways open . . . only by being ready to league with any man, and discard one for another as fortune shirts the plan, can she begin to counter men's great advantage."

Glad that is not as true as it used to be . . .


message 5: by Kateblue (new)

Kateblue | 31 comments Well, I did not read the entire thing, I just kind of skimmed the middle. I found the lack of women's power as described by Vlana in contrast to the power shown by the Snow Women a bit strange. What was the message there?


message 6: by Kateblue (new)

Kateblue | 31 comments Thanks, David, it is interesting to have your opinions about his style. I am on guard now and was able to read the rest without so much annoyance, though I think later POV shifts were not as bad as that first one. So much so that I can't remember where they were now, though I smiled at them at the time.

I liked the conversation where the person speaking was simply capitalized with a colon after the name. Maybe we should suggest all writers write conversations in this screenplay-like style. It would sure be better than getting mixed up about who's talking, which I'm sure we have all been frustrated by with different authors at different times.


message 7: by Kateblue (last edited Jul 06, 2019 01:43PM) (new)

Kateblue | 31 comments The deal about the sexism is, that's the way it was. I don't get as inflamed as some women.

But I just found a conflict between Vlana's opinion about women floating from man to man to escape/protect themselves vs the power of the Snow Women, who didn't have that problem at all, seemingly. No attempt to rationalize this dichotomy by Leiber, that I could see.


message 8: by Charles (new)

Charles | 56 comments Mod
Kateblue wrote: "The deal about the sexism is, that's the way it was. I don't get as inflamed as some women.

But I just found a conflict between Vlana's opinion about women floating from man to man to escape/prot..."


Hello Kateblue,

The way I understand it is that the Snow Women and Vlana are from different cultures. Vlana is from the "civilized" south where men pretty much rule things but in the Snow Clan, the Snow Witch coven run the show. The reader will learn more about Vlana in the story, "Ill Met in Lankhmar."

Charles


message 9: by Kateblue (new)

Kateblue | 31 comments I'm looking forward to reading all about Lankhmar


message 10: by Kateblue (new)

Kateblue | 31 comments Very interesting. Thanks for the incredibly long post . . .


message 11: by Charles (new)

Charles | 56 comments Mod
Thanks, David. You've teased all that out much better than my poor capabilities would have.
Charles


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