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Onyx and Ivory (Rime Chronicles, #1)
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FoE Book Club > Onxy and Ivory Chapters 10-18

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Stephanie | 207 comments Mod
Add your comments, questions, and observations for Chapters 10-18 of Onyx and Ivory in this thread. Remember--no spoilers for future chapters!

Here are some guiding questions if you are looking for prompts to begin the discussion, but that you have zero obligation to answer if you have other things you want to talk about.

1. Is the decision for Bonner, Signe, and Kate to travel to Norgard a good one? Why or why not?

2. As the book progresses, it seems that Kate is trying to fight her way back into a way of life that she lost, while Corwin fights to not have to lead a life he was born into. How are events in this book forcing each character to come to grips with their “fate.”

3. We learn more about the politics of the world in which Onyx and Ivory is set in these chapters, including past wars, current tensions among countries, threats to the kingdom of Rime, and how the rulers of Rime are chosen. Does any of this information change how you view the power or status of the various Magist or Wilder groups?

4. Why do you think Rime is still the only kingdom with magic? On a related note, why do you think that magic plays a role in the way in which the ruler of Rime is chosen?

5. The night vs. day, black vs. white imagery becomes even more present in this section of the book. What do you think the significance of the uror sign as black and white animal is?

6. What was your reaction to Kate and Corwin’s discovery of the daydrakes in the Wandering Woods and the events that followed?


Daisy Swaffer | 11 comments Wow, I’m at this discussion point already.
I am sailing through this book. It feels a bit cheesy but I’m really enjoying it, nothing wrong with cheesy!
Ok, discussion points, let’s see...
1. Were Kate and gang right to go to Norgard... As a risk averse person myself, NO! When we see a mother’s reaction to her child being taken by the inquisition and being told how the child’s death will be a long and agonising torture, why risk that? Making revolvers to combat the daydrakes would not be enough incentive for me. And with Master Wraith (I don’t know spelling as read by audio so sorry if that is wrong) told Kate that he knows what she is after she used wilder magic on the journey, it isn’t much of a leap to realise Bonner is wilder too. Though I believe there is much more that that particular master than Kate realises.

2. Kate and Corvin’s fates. As much as Kate seems to be trying to settle back into a life she lost, I can’t see it being something she will ever be comfortable with. The last 3 years have changed not only how everyone feels about her and her father but she has changed a lot in that time too. She has seen a very different side of the world and of people and even if the stables job had worked out I don’t think she would have ever felt right there.
Corvin seems to be warring with himself a bit. We have heard that he always considered himself born to lead but a couple of years off with [whatever group name it was that I forget] and he is determined that his brother Edwin should be the one to rule, and yet in his natural environment he seems to slip easily into a leadership role. Perhaps he ought to be out leading an army instead of potentially ruling a kingdom, with a right hand woman who is rather good with horses

3. Politics and history. I have been very glad to get some insight into how Rime fits into the world and its history, and it has been given in a very digestible way which I appreciate. I thought Rime was a much larger, more omnipotent kingdom to be honest, to hear about rivalries with other kingdoms gave me a very different perspective. And why does magic only seem to be rife in Rime and not the other kingdoms? Interesting and more to learn there. In terms of the heir choosing thing, I don’t know what the trials are like but we have been told people have died in them and that branding was barbaric. I do not approve, but the whole black and white animal appearing thing is interesting.

4. Magic in Rime. Aha, I just mentioned that in number 3. I am baffled by why magic seems to be limited to Rime. I hope this is explained but I fear it will be a following book if it is. And with the ceremony for choosing the heir thing, who or what is in control of the magic which creates that black and white animal, is there some being somewhere using magic to influence and control Rime? Is that why it is only in Rime? It is bizarre!

5. Onyx & Ivory imagery. Aha, the black and white animal thing is spelt uror, thank you. This uror sign is the only thing making me feel that the magic in Rime is part of something else, something bigger. Perhaps some force which is consumed by a need for balance, to keep tipping the scales each way to maintain that balance... is that why the daydrakes have appeared, a tip of the scales which need to be rebalanced. I don’t know, but it’s certainly very strongly telegraphed right from the book title onwards.

6. The Wandering Woods. There was me hoping they were going to get down to the serious business of some smooching and maybe putting a use to that Moon belt, and instead, bam! Daydrakes! So my reaction was simultaneous disappointment and excitement. The magical restraint of the daydrakes and the subsequent cover up does seem to indicate more than one wilder magic person is behind it all and I can only assume it is related to whatever Kate’s dad knew which led to the attack on Corvin’s dad 3 years ago as well. I’m a bit baffled by other people’s reluctance to believe Kate and Corvin about what they found there though; there is no reason for them to make that up and they should be happy to get any information they can about the daydrakes situation!

Seems I’m likely to finish the book tomorrow at my current pace, so I’ll see how all this pans out!


Megan | 236 comments 1. I was screaming at the book when they said they were going that it was a terrible idea - and I feel like if they sat down and fully listened to each other's backstories, they wouldn't have ended up going. But in the context of how it happened, I could understand each of their reasons for agreeing to go - not knowing the danger and seeing only the benefit for his father, it seemed like too good an opportunity to pass up for Bonner, and then Signe being able to use her skills to work with him made sense - and then Kate not wanting to be separated from the closest people she had in her life.

2. I didn't really see Kate as trying to get her old life back - in fact, being back in the old setting with the same people does not seem to be making her comfortable at all. I was impressed with how much she was able to get over that to find things to do and continue trying to figure out her own life in the midst of being back there, but I never thought that she wanted to slide back in where she left off, even if it were possible for her to do so. She hasn't forgotten that these people killed her father.

Corwin, on the other hand, seems to find the possibility of picking back up with Kate where he left off very attractive. At this point, I had the impression that he was the typical spoiled "spare" (as in the heir and the spare) who never planned on having to be responsible for anything, so the possibility of being tied down by having to lead and make decisions is pretty terrifying. Kate is how he talks himself into taking on more of the role he's expected to fulfill, and the way that he's changing is part of why Kate is still sticking around (in addition to the more important matter of finding out what happened with her father).

3. At this point, I didn't really have a sense of where the political side of things was headed - I did wonder if there was another place where wilders might be free or in charge, and the magists in Rime were trying to make sure nobody there finds out about it - but there was really nothing specific in the story to support that.

From a broader historical perspective, I thought the uror kind of made sense, since it would lead to the stronger, bolder person becoming king rather than more covert assassinations or challenges to sitting kings. But the need to have the magical sign for it to start was an interesting wrinkle - I wonder if there have been situations where it didn't present itself and there was unrest in the past?

4. I really don't think Rime is the only kingdom with magic - I think the gold robes just want everyone to think it is so they can maintain control and not have the people of Rime realize there are other ways of living.

5. I'm still wondering about the black and white - I don't think we've fully seen yet the extent of its importance or origin.

6. Because I am always looking for a conspiracy, I saw it as further evidence that the gold robes are up to something and trying to create chaos and blame the wilders. But I'm starting to see pretty much every event in the book that way, so that might not be the most objective opinion...:)


message 4: by Jen (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jen (piratenami) | 193 comments My thoughts, having just finished his section of the book. Not necessarily following the questions, but answering some of them in a rambling format. :)

I am more convinced than ever, after the stuff in the Wood, that the mages, or at least a small faction of them, are somehow behind the daydrakes. I suspect the golds are able to control the Wilders that they capture in some way. That was why Corwin and company found that Wilder at the other house that burned down. And that was why the inquisition captures Wilders. If they were "evil", wouldn't they just kill them all outright like they do with the boy's mother?

Maybe they're just trying to create a threat and make themselves more invaluable to the country?

Maybe the mage magic is actually the one that's unnatural, which is why it only exists in Rime?

Maybe, since the daydrakes have attacked both princes already, their plan is to eliminate them and declare the king too sick, effectively taking over Rime?

I'm almost thinking "The Rising" is actually a mage plot of some sort OR, if it really is a Wilder group, it's actually a group trying to stop the mage plot.

I really, really want to know the truth about Kate's dad. I am starting to think the reason that Kate's father attacked the King in the first place was that something was wrong with him and it was a botched attempt to save him. Maybe it's the same thing that's making him weak and sick now. IDK if it's something like demon possession or he's somehow being used (or drained?) by the mageists? Or maybe the king discovered Hale was a Wilder and was going to turn him in?

For some reason, I got an idea in my head while reading this that the royal family might have Wilder blood. I think it was that part where Kate tried to touch the uror horse and couldn't, but Corwin seemed to have some kind of connection with it.


Sarah Pace (space1138) | 127 comments Halfway through and I’m still enjoying it. I agree with Daisy that’s it’s a bit cheesy, but so far it’s been fairly well done.

If I can give the meta answer to #1, yes they had to go, because that’s where the plot of the story is. The truth about Kate’s dad is in Norgard, Corwin’s plot is obviously there, it just didn’t make sense for them to go anywhere else. That said, I don’t know that the author did the best job of giving them a good reason to do so- I agree with the crew that her sell seemed a bit flimsy.

I’m glad the romance element has cooled off a bit. Kate and Corwin now seem to be in a much more natural place, given their checkered history together, and I’m enjoying seeing their rekindling unfold.

The foreshadowing has been heavy enough that I’m still really curious to see if there will be a twist. I’ve got a pretty set picture of exactly where this is all going, and I’m really hoping that it veers off from that unexpectedly. There is definitely something sinister going on with the mages, and I also agree that Kate’s dad was somehow tied up in it, but hope there more going on beneath the surface, too.


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