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Redemption Point (Crimson Lake, #2)
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Group Read - Redemption Point > Group Read - Redemption Point ch 13-25 Spoilers Welcome

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message 1: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14201 comments This topic is to discuss chapters 13-25 of Redemption Point
Spoilers welcome. If the first to post please briefly summarize to guide the discussion.


message 2: by Geri (last edited Apr 01, 2019 12:14PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Geri | 305 comments Chapter 13

Ted’s interview is contentious and casts doubt on all Ted says. Laura, the interviewer, pulls out a bombshell. An interview with a former girlfriend of Ted’s claiming Ted had a predatory relationship with her younger sister.

Chapter 14

Pip Sweeney story told. Her father was abusive. Mother not there. Pip wanted to find her. Pip’s father says he does not feel good. Pip does not call for help while he dies of a heart attack. She called for help later but it was obvious she lied about what happened. Medical examiner lied and hid some of the evidence that Pip did not help.

In medical examiner’s office, Amanda scares Pip as she suddenly sits up on exam table. Medical examiner reports saliva on Andy’s penis was from woman he was found with when he died. Dirt was found on Andy’s hand as well. They theorize that he fell before he died.

Chapter 15

Ted’s interview ends. Story explodes about new allegations. Ted barely remembers the little sister. Khalid offers to help things go away. Ted refuses any help.

Chapter 16

Ted on plane. He panics when he notices he would have to sit by a young teen. He requests to be reseated and is reassigned to another seat by a flight attendant who recognized him.

Back in Crimson Lake. Ted runs a bath for his geese. He calls Amanda. She tells him the latest details of the case. Kelly calls to tell Ted she does not believe the new allegations. She reveals that she doesn’t believe Ted did any of it. She also tells Ted that Khalid gave Ted’s daughter a diamond bracelet and doesn’t know what to do with it.

Chapter 17

Claire’s father breaks into Ted’s house in the middle of the night. Dale Billingsley passes out drunk.

Chapter 18

Kevin has planted a nanny cam in Penny’s house.

Chapter 19

Sweeney, Amanda and Ted are in Amanda’s office discussing the new developments. They conclude the person responsible for the killing was knowledgeable about crime like a police officer, someone in the military, etc.. Sweeney and Ted discuss Amanda. They speculate whether Amanda has Aspergers or something else. They both agree Amanda is exactly what they need.

Chapter 20

Sweeney and Ted arrive at bar, where the water sprinkler system was activated and destroyed any evidence left. Ted comforts Stephanie about Andrew’s cheating. Owner of bar complains about a noisy jackhammer noise due to a neighbor’s renovations. Also says the neighbor has complained about bar noise too. Sweeney believes owner purposefully activated the sprinklers so she could reopen the bar. Ted asks neighbor what is going on. The son says they are redoing bathroom. Amanda finds the bag with the stolen money on the roof.

Chapter 21

Kevin listens and watches Penny through nanny cam.

Chapter 22

Ted at home. Dale still there looking at papers Ted gave him. They discuss the white dog angle in the report. Dale does not want to go to police.

Melanie cannot be found for interview. Ted is asked to come in for questioning.

Chapter 23

Kevin gets a white dog.

Chapter 24

Sweeney ruminating over the Bell case. Amanda appears dressed up and says she is going to the pub.

Chapter 25

Ted dong research on Bell case. Dale still there. Ted receives email from couple who possibly gave Kevin the dog.


message 3: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14201 comments Geri: I read this segment and continued reading without getting back to comment so will try to reconstruct my thoughts at this point; which reminds me of the title - "Redemption Point." Candice Fox is taking several threads to a point. Amanda and Ted, partners, but working separately. Pip Sweeney, newly promoted, a smart policewoman working separately from the rest of the police force, and we can't forget Dale (Claire's father) and Kevin, our child molester.
Dale coming back to Ted's house was terrifying. Kelly talking to Ted and believing him that the allegations of his old girlfriend were false was a bit mind bending - what does this mean for them?
Kevin is escalating with the nanny-cam planted in Penny's teddy bear gift. Creepy. Through it all, Ted allows Dale to stay and worries about the geese. The bathtub ritual is sweet.


Geri | 305 comments Ann wrote: "Geri: I read this segment and continued reading without getting back to comment so will try to reconstruct my thoughts at this point; which reminds me of the title - "Redemption Point." Candice Fox..."

I agree, Ann. The big difference between book 1 and 2 was how Fox split up Ted and Amanda. Because of that, it did lack some of the spark from book 1. Amanda and Pip were partners in this book. Amanda, with her oddness and insight, is perfect for those in need of help. So this is probably why Fox put them together. Pip’s story was revealed in this section. And we find out why Pip needs “redemption”.


Russ | 330 comments Though Dale's continued presence in Ted's home is compelling & dramatic, it is also implausible, bordering on ridiculous. I think you raped my daughter, so let me crash at your house, drink with you, & do internet research together. Yeah, right.


message 6: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14201 comments Russ: It was much more plausible that Dale came to kill Ted.
I tried to read something into the situation.
Ted reacted passively (when they weren't beating each other up)
Dale acted like a sleepwalker (when he left Ted immobilized but alive the first time)
Dale came back, Ted again acted (mostly) passively. Dale wants to keep an eye on Ted. Staying in the house together does stretch credulity. Ted is lonely and perhaps because he can relate to the devastation Dale feels catapults at the latest of many (and seemingly unending) intrusions ....
so who are the two most motivated people wanting Claire's attacker punished... still a stretch but as a device it moves the story along.

Russ wrote: "Though Dale's continued presence in Ted's home is compelling & dramatic, it is also implausible, bordering on ridiculous. I think you raped my daughter, so let me crash at your house, drink with yo..."


Bruce Perrin | 127 comments Oops, I see my comment about the TV interview in the Chapters 1-12 section of this post is actually about something in Chapter 13. Sorry. The hardback doesn’t have chapter numbers; I was a bit off.

There are too many emotionally damaged characters in this book for me. One can increase my interest, depending on what the backstory is, but three is usually two too many. Ted’s damage is necessary for the story, and like most everyone else on this thread, I’m enjoying quirky Amanda. But I doubt killing someone in self-defense has anything to do with her behavior. It was Pip’s backstory that just seemed too much. I did see the comment that said that it gave her a reason to need redemption, but does everyone have to need it? And if so, what redemption does Amanda need for defending herself?

I hope Fox has a good twist to explain why the money was thrown on the bar’s roof. If it was taken to make the killings look like a murder, why didn’t the killer just keep it? It would actually be more work to throw it up there than to stick it in a pocket, wouldn’t it?

I can’t buy that Pip is bringing Ted and Amanda into the case as fully as she is. Yes, this is her first case and yes, she knows they are good PIs, but what police detective would do something like that? It would be career suicide.

Also, on the exchange between Russ and Ann about how/why Dale is staying with Ted. I wondered if Fox was using it to push Ted into action on his case. Of course, if he hadn’t taken a head-in-the-sand approach to start with (which, sorry ladies, is still a bit unbelievable to me), then Dale wouldn’t need to be there (which is also strange).


message 8: by Ann (last edited Apr 28, 2019 09:27AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14201 comments Bruce: I had an early thought about Dale and Ted’s odd-duck (pun intended) relationship. Completely speculative particularly since the US release dates probably have no relation to the actual writing dates. The teaser after reading Crimson Lake indicated that Claire’s father was introduced. I wondered if he could had been planned and executed as a main character to make Ted get back involved in his own case and then included even when the original path wasn’t clear to be working seamlessly. Dale seems to also be a way to involve Claire’s perspective in the story while keeping her at arms length.
As for Pip involving Amanda and Ted in the case so fully; yes the depth of that involvement was unexpected. Explained partly by their employer’s influence superficially but in practice it was unusual.

And no worries about the chapter blending. That is one of the hardest things about summaries and comments when the book format doesn’t provide chapter breaks more and more often it seems.
Bruce wrote: "Oops, I see my comment about the TV interview in the Chapters 1-12 section of this post is actually about something in Chapter 13. Sorry. The hardback doesn’t have chapter numbers; I was a bit off...
also, on the exchange between Russ and Ann about how/why Dale is staying with Ted. I wondered if Fox was using it to push Ted into action on his case. Of course, if he hadn’t taken a head-in-the-sand approach to start with (which, sorry ladies, is still a bit unbelievable to me), then Dale wouldn’t need to be there (which is also strange).
."



message 9: by OMalleycat (last edited Apr 28, 2019 02:11PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

OMalleycat | 1448 comments Bruce wrote: "Oops, I see my comment about the TV interview in the Chapters 1-12 section of this post is actually about something in Chapter 13. Sorry. The hardback doesn’t have chapter numbers; I was a bit off...."

Bruce I struggled with the lack of numbered chapters to a ridiculous extent and it’s a good part of why I took a hiatus from the discussion. At virtually every break I read far beyond the section and then found it hard to comment without spoilering.

Bruce wrote: “There are too many emotionally damaged characters in this book for me. . .It was Pip’s backstory that just seemed too much.

I’m not bothered by troops of emotionally damaged characters. Most detective fiction is filled with them, nearly always starting with the sleuth him- or her-self. But the revelation of Pip’s backstory did seem awkward to me. Perhaps too sudden, with little foreshadowing?

Still in real life and fiction, people with self doubt, guilt, or secrets are often drawn to each other and band together. If you’re burdened by angst, cheery people would be off-putting. I’m thinking about the Monkeewrench crew, though as I recall, their pasts don’t contain quite as much drama as Ted, Amanda, and Pip.

One thing I liked about Pip’s revelation was it gave further insight into the forensic pathologist who’salso aided Ted. She’s an enigmatic character (and I can’t remember her name.)

Bruce also wrote: “I hope Fox has a good twist to explain why the money was thrown on the bar’s roof. If it was taken to make the killings look like a murder, why didn’t the killer just keep it? It would actually be more work to throw it up there than to stick it in a pocket, wouldn’t it.”

I took that to be a firm indication this wasn’t just a robbery; whoever did it didn’t need the money.

Bruce said: “I can’t buy that Pip is bringing Ted and Amanda into the case as fully as she is. Yes, this is her first case and yes, she knows they are good PIs, but what police detective would do something like that?”

Though this would never happen outside of fiction I could justify it with my belief that vulnerable Pip was more comfortable with Amanda and Ted than with other police detectives. I thought Fox was setting up an ongoing “in” with the police that private detectives always need. Someone with access to private information.

And yes to all of you who found Dale living with Ted outside the bounds of even fictional believability. I thought the two were bound by their guilt over Claire’s suffering, haunted by their conviction that there was more they could have done. But still, it stretched credulity.


message 10: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14201 comments Jan O'Cat: I thought the same set-up might be in the works.
OMalleycat wrote: "I thought Fox was setting up an ongoing “in” with the police that private detectives always need. Someone with access to private information."
Bruce said: “I can’t buy that Pip is bringing Ted and Amanda into the case as fully as she is. Yes, this is her first case and yes, she knows they are good PIs, but what police detective would do something like that?”. ."



Bruce Perrin | 127 comments OMalleycat wrote: "I took that to be a firm indication this wasn’t just a robbery; whoever did it didn’t need the money."

I did too. I just wondered why the killer chanced throwing it on the roof and spoiling the illusion of a robbery when there was no reason to do so. It's like he/she completed the smokescreen and then, for no reason, did something out of the ordinary that might spoil it. I'm still hoping for a twist to explain it.

OMalleycat wrote: "I thought Fox was setting up an ongoing “in” with the police that private detectives always need. Someone with access to private information."

Absolutely. But you are being extremely generous to let Fox set up a largely implausible relationship just so she has the "in" she needs for future books. Fox could have made Ted and Amanda work for that "in" and/or work without it for a while. It's just too convenient for me.

Ann wrote: "I wondered if he could had been planned and executed as a main character to make Ted get back involved in his own case and then included even when the original path wasn’t clear to be working seamlessly."

If I understand, I have the same comment as above - you are being very generous. Fox writing herself into a corner with an ill-conceived preview isn't a good reason for setting up such a strange relationship.

The further I get into the book, the more it seems a character study featuring quirky and damaged persons, but where the plot has suffered from relative neglect. But let me also add quickly, I find the writing brilliant. A scene like the one with Amanda riding a bike through the rain forest in an elegant evening dress is portrayed excellently. I just hope all these outstandingly written threads come together in the finale.


OMalleycat | 1448 comments Bruce wrote: "I find the writing brilliant. A scene like the one with Amanda riding a bike through the rain forest in an elegant evening dress is portrayed excellently. "

I agree. That scene and a few others left a clear and present mental image and feeling that remains instantly accessible to me weeks after reading it.

I also have to say that I wasn’t as much an Amanda fan as others here, but that scene endeared her to me and helped me better accept the character.


message 13: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14201 comments Brufe: Echoing Jan O'Cat: Amanda riding her bike through the rainforest in an evening gown is instantly accessible to recall to mind and brilliantly written, not as easy as one might think.
Bruce wrote: "I find the writing brilliant. A scene like the one with Amanda riding a bike through the rain forest in an elegant evening dress is portrayed excellently..."


message 14: by Carol/Bonadie (last edited May 18, 2019 04:49AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 7781 comments Ann wrote: "Kelly talking to Ted and believing him that the allegations of his old girlfriend were false was a bit mind bending - what does this mean for them?..."

I found this development fascinating--it rarely happens in this kind of plot point. It took me off on a tangent of wondering what this would mean, including that Ted would move away from Crimson Lake and dissolve his partnership with Amanda. Which means that it won't happen [Kelly and Ted reuniting], at least in my mind, since that would mean the end of the series LOL.


Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 7781 comments Ann wrote: "Russ: It was much more plausible that Dale came to kill Ted.
I tried to read something into the situation.
Ted reacted passively (when they weren't beating each other up)
Dale acted like a sleep..."


I agree this was a bit far-fetched. I also found Ted to be incredibly passive, which pained me a bit. I know he's been victimized beyond belief but I want him to stand up for himself and fight back, a little.


OMalleycat | 1448 comments Carol/Bonadie wrote: "Ann wrote: "Kelly talking to Ted and believing him that the allegations of his old girlfriend were false was a bit mind bending - what does this mean for them?..."

And Carol responded: “ . . .including that Ted would move away from Crimson Lake and dissolve his partnership with Amanda. Which means that it won't happen [Kelly and Ted reuniting], at least in my mind, since that would mean the end of the series LOL.


Carol, I took this completely as you did: not gonna happen. The only mystery for me was how Fox was going to get Ted permanently out of his relationship with Kelly when he still missed her and definitely wants to be with his daughter.


message 17: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14201 comments Carol and Jan O'Cat: agreed, a reunion with Kelly for Ted wouldn't have worked for so many reasons. I think perhaps that is one of the saddest parts of the situation.

OMalleycat wrote: "Carol, I took this completely as you did: not gonna happen. The only mystery for me was how Fox was going to get Ted permanently out of his relationship with Kelly when he still missed her and definitely wants to be with his daughter. ..."


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