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Redemption Point (Crimson Lake, #2)
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Group Read - Redemption Point > Group Read - Redemption Point characters 1-12 Spoilers Welcome

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message 1: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14297 comments This topic is to discuss chapters 1-12 of Redemption Point
Spoilers welcome.
How do you like the book so far? If the first to post please briefly summarize to guide the discussion.


Geri Chapter 1

Summary from book 1 of Ted being accused of raping and leaving a young girl to die.

Ted get attacked in his house by a man with a bat. Man tells Ted he is looking for child porn on Ted’s computer. Man identifies himself as Claire’s father, the girl Ted was accused of attacking. Ted asks man to look at evidence his partner discovered about the man who did attack his daughter. The man just walks out.

Chapter 2

Amanda finds Ted at his house and frees him from his ties.

Background information about Amanda and how Ted became her partner.

Ted chases after Claire’s father. Ted finds him in his car. Ted gives him the envelope of information.

Chapter 3

Journal entry of unknown man named Kevin. Recounting his issues and why he is seeing a psychologist. He believes he is a sex addict/pedophile. Tells his therapist the first time he was sent pictures through AOL. Therapist tells his mother and therapist refuses to treat him anymore. After 10 years his problem is even worse and he has acted on his impulses.

Chapter 4

Ted and Amanda at a crime scene. Two people were shot in a bar. Father of Andy Bell hired Ted and Amanda. Police suspect a robbery.

Summary of Innocent Ted, a group started because they think Ted is innocent. Started by a woman named Fabiana. Officer Sweeney admits she listens to the podcasts. Ted does not listen.

Chapter 5

Another journal entry by Kevin. He has a girlfriend, Chloe, to keep people from wondering about hm.

Chapter 6

Ted thinks about the many ways he is harassed since he was accused of a crime. Ted recounts a domestic case he had before he was accused of a crime. One where the father of a baby threatened to cook his baby in the microwave. Because of this Ted has developed a friendship with a criminal named Khalid, his niece was the baby Ted saved. Khalid believes Ted is innocent. So Khalid has assigned men to protect Ted. Ted does not want protection and says he does not want to investigate his own case.

Chapter 7

Amanda at crime scene. Amanda interviews a man near the bar. Man says he was not there at the time of the shooting. The elderly woman who lives there has Alzheimer’s. Another neighbor says her dog barks too much to hear anything. The third neighbor refuses to even talk to Amanda.

Amanda claims she owns a booth in a restaurant and waitress confirms it. Sweeney reveals she is head of the case. Amanda reveals Michael Bell’s father is Christopher Layett, a biker from a biker gang who was killed when protected by the police. Body never found. Sweeney says she will not tell the Chief that Ted and Amanda are working on the case. In exchange Sweeney wants any information they discover.

Chapter 8

Keven talks more about his life. He notices a girl named Penny who lives next door.

Chapter 9

Ted thinks about his wife, Kelly. He is at his first supervised visit with his daughter. Things don’t go well. Lillian, his daughter cries. Ted meets Kelly’s boyfriend. Kelly asks about Amanda. Lillian finally reaches out to Ted and allows him to hold her. Linda and Sharon, Khalid’s men, offer to hurt Kelly’s boyfriend.

Chapter 10

Sweeney at crime scene. Amanda arrives declares the scene a mess, starts folding clothes. Sweeney interviews Michael Bell. Bell denies any criminal activities. Amanda reveals Andy had two girlfriends, Stephanie and the other woman who was shot. Amanda’s primary evidence is the opal necklace she was wearing.

Chapter 11

Ted on TV show. Sean takes him to makeup. His clothes are changed and hair cut to improve his appearance.

Chapter 12

Kevin talks more about Penny. Another interaction with her.


message 3: by OMalleycat (last edited Apr 28, 2019 12:16PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

OMalleycat | 1448 comments The opening paragraphs of the book are haunting. Ted thinks of Claire Bingley in an elegiac way. He mourns for what each of them has lost. He’s remembered their brief meeting so often that it’s become more emblem than memory.

At the same time, as he remembers their encounter in this passage he says “she came with me,” “I snatched her,” “the woods where I left her.” I almost had a heart attack. I thought we were finding out, in the very first pages, that we’d been fooled in Crimson Lake and Ted’s protestations of innocence were false.

Then he turns it around and again declares his innocence. Ted says Claire’s attack was “described to me so many times across my trial and incarceration that it was easy to see myself doing it.” He’s been so crazed for so long he can picture himself in every role of the attack.

This is great writing. In a few paragraphs we get not just Ted’s backstory but how it haunts him and how angry, sad, and crazy it makes him. And he doesn’t just have deep regret for himself but for Claire as well.

Which makes it easier to understand when Dale Bingley shows up and Ted takes a beating, he still retains some empathy. When he catches up to Dale in the rental car lot and sits in the car with him Ted fancies he can hear Dale’s heart thumping, or maybe it’s his own. Two hearts beating as one in rage, sorrow, and fear.

It will be powerful if Ted can get Dale to believe in his innocence, but it may not be possible. Dale has imagined the attack as often as Ted, but in his imagination Ted has been the actor.

The diary entries from Kevin seem like an easy solution to the question of who attacked Claire, but since I read Crimson Lake so recently (view spoiler)

I’m glad to see Phillipa Sweeney come back—the only sympathetic cop in the first book. It’s funny to see Amanda through her eyes.

I’m worried about Ted accepting protection from Khalid, the drug lord. Not that he really “accepted” it—Khalid insisted. It seems dangerous both in the literal sense and to Ted’s reputation if he’s cleared of Claire’s attack. Plus, will he be able to shake Khalid now that he’s accepted a favor from him?

Anyone else predict Amanda is going to work some of her Amanda magic and get info from the woman with Alzheimer’s?

I’m wondering if the potential gang connection and Michael Bell, the victim’s father, will play out somehow. Michael’s father was a notorious member of a bike gang. Michael is a trucker and could be transporting contraband. I think there was a hint the bar is a biker hangout. The kids were shot execution style. It seems like a lot of interweaving ideas to me, but Fox was so slick with misdirection in Crimson Lake that I’m afraid to commit to any suspicions in this book. 😉

I’m constantly stunned by the Australian landscape. Think of the vast deserts in The Lost Man and compare the dense rainforest in Fox’s books. We have Death Valley and the Everglades in the U.S. but the contrast isn’t as extreme nor is the extent—the sheer acreage—of extreme environments.

I’ll confess a little joke on myself. It kept nagging at me as strange when Ted would mention himself or others traveling north to the wetlands. Finally I realized it seemed strange because the tropics in Australia are north. Because, duh, it’s the Southern Hemisphere! You go north to get closer to the equator!


Geri I agree, the anguish is still front and center for Ted in book 2. I was surprised at how well Ted took his beating by Dale too. I think his wanting Dale to know the truth about who really attacked his daughter is 2 fold. One to prove his innocence. But also to get justice for Dale. I think you are right, Jan, he has put himself in every part of the crime. And actually has empathy for Dale. Even though Dale hates him so much.

Amanda is a very, very odd bird! But she really is a savant as far as seeing things in a way others can’t. She reminds me a bit of Sherlock Holmes.

As far as Kevin is concerned, I was surprised the therapist refused to treat him. It definitely seemed like a major lapse of duty. When someone is troubled, a therapist should be there to help. Not judge! So that part did not ring true to me.

Yes, I wasn’t sure where the Khalid angle would go. A criminal helping Ted can go so many ways! I did chuckle at the names given to the men protecting Ted, Linda and Sharon, I believe.

I also really enjoy reading about Australia. And yes, everything is pretty much opposite of the U.S., seasons and weather. I would love to visit one day!


OMalleycat | 1448 comments Geri wrote: "(Ted) actually has empathy for Dale. Even though Dale hates him so much."

There’s so much rage and violence in both books that Ted’s essential goodness is sometimes overridden. But I think his affection for Amanda and the geese show what a sympathetic character he is.

Geri also wrote: “Amanda is a very, very odd bird! But she really is a savant as far as seeing things in a way others can’t. She reminds me a bit of Sherlock Holmes.”

That’s a good comparison, Geri. She’s really got some weird but effective crime solving intuition. And Sherlock was an odd duck, though I don’t remember him making me cringe the way Amanda does!

Geri also said: “As far as Kevin is concerned, I was surprised the therapist refused to treat him. It definitely seemed like a major lapse of duty. When someone is troubled, a therapist should be there to help. Not judge! So that part did not ring true to me.“

The part that really got me was that the therapist immediately called in his mother and told her. Way to make a bad situation worse! I took it that the therapist was so horrified by Kevin’s pedophilia that she couldn’t handle it but, gosh, surely it’s part of the job description to hear things in therapy that are outside your comfort zone. I felt sorry for Kevin because he was doing the right thing in seeking help and it all crashed around him. At the very least she should have referred him to another therapist. If Kevin turns out to be the one who assaulted Claire, I think the therapist’s license should be revoked.


message 6: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14297 comments Geri-terrific summaries!! Thanks for doing them!
Your and Jan’s comments are so thoughtful. I’m on the app so can’t quote them in this post.
I am a bit further along in the book and am sitting in the arena on a period break of a Preds hockey game but want to get my impressions down before reading too much further on the way home. This is a start.
Ted scared me too in his musing about how he seemed to remember committing the rape of Claire. I was so sure Dale, Claire’s father was going to kill him even though I knew it was unlikely. This author really ratchets up the tension!


message 7: by Ann (last edited Apr 05, 2019 09:00PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14297 comments Ted’s wife’s reaction to his visit right off the bat was disappointing. You could tell Ted was hoping deep inside that there would still be something to hold onto of their marriage. I expected Kelly to at least be civil. Her apparent boyfriend was horrible to Ted at the end of the visit. That made me really mad. At least Ted did get the final hug with Lily.
I was glad he has the two bodyguards with him. Ted’s drug dealer “pal” Khalid is an interesting twist. I do find it interesting that Khalid understands Ted isn’t the type of guy to have committed the rape and his own wife and co-workers were so instantly quick to abandon Ted. (Ok I am still mad about that from book one)
The TV show angle is also unexpected. Ted wanting to get the $450k payday isn’t a bad thing since he does have to support himself but the idea of agreeing to do it seems at odds with his hands off approach to the ‘Ted is innocent’ group with the podcast. I am again, in this book too - very happy Ted has a strong supportive lawyer. It makes Kelly’s abandonment and not believing in his innocence even more jarring.

You’ve both mentioned Amanda’s almost savant ability to discern clues and motives others miss entirely. She is really something. I agree Jan O’Cat, she just might go back and get something from the neighbor to the bar who was dismissed as a witness due to having Alzheimer’s. The bar murder angle is interesting. Amanda doing the investigation on her own is certainly abrasive.

And finally I am not enjoying the insights into Kevin’s head. His childhood therapist should be disbarred or whatever happens to a thoroughly incompetent therapist. I guess we have to learn of the actual rapist somehow. He has made himself into a chameleon - was it to stop himself from being a pedophile and blend in or to hide in plain sight and commit crimes?


Barbara K | 414 comments I agree with Ann that the excursions into Kevin's head are off-putting. Maybe it's a reflection of the general human distaste for pedophilia - the same thing that triggered Kevin's first therapist's rejection of him. No question that her behavior was inappropriate, but at the same time I could see it happening. It makes her an unattractive person and a poor counselor, but real nevertheless. Someone who saw her role as a child psychologist as helping victims, not perpetrators.

Truthfully, I'm finding this book a more stressful read than the first one. I'm missing Amanda's interactions with Ted and I'm wondering if the whole book will be played out in two separate venues, Crimson Lake and Sydney. Will Amanda form an interesting working relationship with Pip Sweeney?


message 9: by Barbara K (last edited Apr 05, 2019 05:00AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Barbara K | 414 comments Ann, I also agree with your comment about being happy that Ted has a smart, supportive lawyer. The cast of characters who are in his corner - Amanda, Sean, the pathologist whose name I forget, Fabiana, Khalid - is colorful and represents a nice dispersion of types of helpers. Investigator savant, legal eagle, physical evidence, journalist, and muscle. I wonder if there will be more to come? I'm apprehensive enough about the outcome of the TV interview that I suspect he will need lots of help as the book progresses.


message 10: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14297 comments Barbara: it has been a while since I read Crimson Lake, but I know what you mean. The shifting points of view in this book take me out of the narrative more often. Stressful reactions ratcheted up -possibly because we are more engaged with the characters, and the geese!

Barbara wrote: "Truthfully, I'm finding this book a more stressful read than the first one. I'm missing Amanda's interactions with Ted and I'm wondering if the whole book will be played out in two separate venues, Crimson Lake and Sydney. Will Amanda form an interesting working relationship with Pip Sweeney?
.."



message 11: by Geri (new) - rated it 4 stars

Geri Ann wrote: "but the idea of agreeing to do it seems at odds with his hands off approach to the ‘Ted is innocent’ group"

That’s a good point, Ann. I didn’t catch this when I read the book. But there were a few times I thought things weren’t consistent. And they will likely be brought up later.


message 12: by Geri (new) - rated it 4 stars

Geri OMalleycat wrote: "Geri wrote: "(Ted) actually has empathy for Dale. Even though Dale hates him so much."

There’s so much rage and violence in both books that Ted’s essential goodness is sometimes overridden. But I ..."


Yes, I do love the geese! I love how he spoils them and worries about them. Ted has his oddness too, I guess. And Ted’s ability to connect with Amanda does make him an even more sympathetic character. There are scenes later in the book that made me smile, and/or chuckle regarding these two.


message 13: by Russ (new) - rated it 2 stars

Russ | 330 comments Ann wrote: "You’ve both mentioned Amanda’s almost savant ability to discern clues and motives others miss entirely...."

Plus Amanda is just such a fun character. To me, she's the highlight of the book thus far.


message 14: by Geri (new) - rated it 4 stars

Geri Russ wrote: "Ann wrote: "You’ve both mentioned Amanda’s almost savant ability to discern clues and motives others miss entirely...."

Plus Amanda is just such a fun character. To me, she's the highlight of the ..."


Amanda is an unusual character. But She is wise in her own way. She is definitely my favorite character too.


Barbara K | 414 comments So this is kind of weird. There are a couple of references to cassowaries in the Crimson Lake books. I'd previously heard of them being something of a danger and nuisance, so it wasn't as if they were unknown to me.

But they certainly aren't a subject that pops up in my life very often. And yet, hard on the heels of reading these two books, I've come across TWO references to them this morning! First, I read in the news that an elderly man (in Florida, I think) died after being attacked by a pet cassowary, and just a few minutes ago, while listening to The Feather Thief: Beauty, Obsession, and the Natural History Heist of the Century, I learned that Walter Rothschild kept cassowaries on the estate in Tring, England, that housed his natural history museum.

I suppose it could be one of those things where there have been references to cassowaries running rampant in my life and I've only noticed them recently because of reading those books set in Queensland. But I tend to doubt it. It's just oddly coincidental.


message 16: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14297 comments Barbara: wow, what a coincidence the two (outside of the books ) recent references are! I think you best watch out in case one shows up in real life for sure. Hahahaha.
I love stuff like this. Of course explanations of how our minds and our memory work are fascinating!
Barbara wrote: "So this is kind of weird. There are a couple of references to cassowaries in the Crimson Lake books. I'd previously heard of them being something of a danger and nuisance, so it wasn't as if they were unknown to me...
I suppose it could be one of those things where there have been references to cassowaries running rampant in my life and I've only noticed them recently because of reading those books set in Queensland. But I tend to doubt it. It's just oddly coincidental.



message 17: by Geri (new) - rated it 4 stars

Geri Barbara wrote: "So this is kind of weird. There are a couple of references to cassowaries in the Crimson Lake books. I'd previously heard of them being something of a danger and nuisance, so it wasn't as if they w..."

Yes, it does seem like once a subject is talked about in a book, movie, etc., then suddenly it gets put on our radar and comes up later. That has definitely happened to me too. My husband actually told me about the man in Florida. I think the claw of the animal was what killed the man when he fell.


Bruce Perrin | 127 comments I didn’t read Crimson Lake and didn’t pick up from the synopsis that this book would be about a pedophile. This is a topic that’s always been on my ‘no read’ list, but so far, Fox has handled that part of the story well. But if I disappear from the thread suddenly, you’ll know what happened.

Part of the reason I’m still reading was the opening scene. Predators behind the wire? I have to admit, Fox pulled me into the story immediately. It took a while to get the Australian setting straight in my mind (as several others have mentioned), but that came together. And the chapter with Dale – that one added to the tension nicely.

Ted’s indifference to clearing his name strikes me as strange. Wouldn’t anyone in his situation do anything they could? And with all the convicted and registered sex offenders, his story has apparently been stamped in the public’s mind; his notoriety seems like a lot more than 15 minutes. I also had some trouble believing he would agree to a TV interview if he has no ambitions to clear his name. He isn’t going to buy his life back with $450,000. To me, that whole chapter felt like an odd add-on for drama that didn’t fit the character or the plot to that point.


message 19: by Geri (new) - rated it 4 stars

Geri Bruce wrote: "Ted’s indifference to clearing his name strikes me as strange. Wouldn’t anyone in his situation do anything they could? "

Ted’s spirit has been broken. In book 1, he went through a lot. In book 2, he is a bit broken. But ,yes, some of the things he did didn’t always make sense.


message 20: by OMalleycat (last edited Apr 27, 2019 09:12PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

OMalleycat | 1448 comments Bruce wrote: " .Ted’s indifference to clearing his name strikes me as strange. Wouldn’t anyone in his situation do anything they could? And with all the convicted and registered sex offenders, his story has apparently been stamped in the public’s mind; his notoriety seems like a lot more than 15 minutes. .."

Bruce, Geri has already explained that Ted has been through so much that he feels helpless to clear his name. I find this highly believable. I think it often happens that people falsely suspected of a crime, especially a heinous, notorious crime, always carry with them the whiff of suspicion. Accusation and arrest are dramatic and a relief and therefore are deeply etched in our collective memory. Being cleared is anticlimactic and forgettable, not to mention the assumption that there must have been something to cause the initial suspicion.

Bruce also wrote: “I also had some trouble believing he would agree to a TV interview if he has no ambitions to clear his name. He isn’t going to buy his life back with $450,000. To me, that whole chapter felt like an odd add-on for drama that didn’t fit the character or the plot to that point. “

I took it that Ted’s primary motive for doing the interview was the money. I think his financial straits were more fully explained in Crimson Lake. He doesn’t have a “real” job and it’s hard to imagine his and Amanda’s detective agency is making much money.

I also think he mentioned in passing that he was doing the interview as a way of throwing a bone to the Ted’s Innocent group. But I really thought Fox included the interview in such detail because she was having fun exposing the behind the scene machinations to make sure Ted has an innocent appearance.

But, you’re right. It is hard to reconcile with his desire to maintain a low profile.


message 21: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14297 comments Bruce: Crimson Lake would make a lot of Ted's (lack of) action seem more understandable.
Without going into specifics of the first book, I will say that Ted was deeply, deeply hurt by what happened and his reactions now reflect that . Amanda too revealed a deep hurt that explains her character.
The pedophile angle was not played this same way in Crimson Lake, so I might advise your giving it a try, especially if the chapters with Kevin turn you off. He was not in the first book.

Bruce wrote: "I didn’t read Crimson Lake and didn’t pick up from the synopsis that this book would be about a pedophile. This is a topic that’s always been on my ‘no read’ list, but so far, Fox has handled that ..."


Bruce Perrin | 127 comments Thanks Jan, Ann, Geri. The consensus seems to be that book 1 would make Ted’s surrender to inaction understandable to me. Perhaps. But what suspected or even convicted criminal ever stops claiming their innocence to anyone and everyone who will listen? And if he really feels powerless to clear himself, why is he trying to clear/investigate others? It doesn’t seem like the behavior of a man who feels helpless, nor does the TV interview. It’s not that his emotional damage seems unrealistic, but that it doesn’t seem to fit his other behaviors.


message 23: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14297 comments Bruce: That is a very good question. I liked that the author leaves this out there for continued consideration. The same could be said of Amanda too. Two damaged people who have formed a bond comes to mind as a reason for the continued work to clear /investigate others. Spoiler for Crimson Lake (though those generally already abound in this thread) (view spoiler) Amanda is amazingly (and style-wise to many others, oddly) good at it and it was the professional part of Ted he had to leave behind when all of his peers abandoned him.
I could talk about this aspect of both novels ad-nauseam. Lol
Bruce wrote: "Thanks Jan, Ann, Geri. The consensus seems to be that book 1 would make Ted’s surrender to inaction understandable to me. Perhaps. But what suspected or even convicted criminal ever stops claiming their innocence to anyone and everyone who will listen? And if he really feels powerless to clear himself, why is he trying to clear/investigate others ..."


OMalleycat | 1448 comments Bruce wrote: "But what suspected or even convicted criminal ever stops claiming their innocence to anyone and everyone who will listen?

I think if you met Ted and the conversational occasion arose, he’d assert his innocence. But Fox has stacked the cards against Ted having even one-on-one averrals of innocence. Everyone he meets is either rabidly convinced of his guilt or ready, on first meeting, to give him a chance. So far it has been useless to plead his innocence or he hasn’t needed to.

For me his indifference or helplessness to clearing his name are in regard to his ever being able to fully shake the accusation and the public’s suspicion. Last night when I was writing about this issue I was thinking about the Atlanta Olympic bombing and the man who was falsely accused. But even as I was writing it I was thinking, “Wait a minute. Was he really exonerated? Am I misremembering?” This morning I had to google to be sure. I think Ted is well aware of the tendency of most of the population to hang on to their suspicions.

And if he really feels powerless to clear himself, why is he trying to clear/investigate others?

In the main cases in the two books there’s been no need to clear others—no false accusations. Ted’s motivation is the investigation. It’s what he does, what he’s trained for, what he’s good at. Plus, he needs a job. And something to occupy his time and his mind.

I was reread the posts in this section to get back up to speed on the book and I recalled how struck I was by the opening pages of the book in which Ted is mourning his lost life and Claire’s as well. There’s a passage that jolted me, in which Ted “remembers” the crime in first person as if he did it.

For a man as reflective and ruminative (and depressive) as Ted, who’s gone over those minutes thousands of times, I think he has guilt that would subdue his urge to proclaim his innocence. And as a policeman he would feel guilt—unjustified to us—for not somehow preventing the attack on Claire. Stopping crime is what he does. Why couldn’t he have stopped this one? If only he hadn’t been so much in his own thoughts; if only he’d stayed for a few more minutes. That life-altering guilt (which is also revealed in his sympathy for Dale) would be enough to leave him ambivalent about loudly championing his innocence.


OMalleycat | 1448 comments Ann wrote: ".. Spoiler for Crimson Lake (though those generally already abound in this thread)"

LOL, Ann, funny you should mention that. As I was rereading posts last night I noticed I’d committed a screamer of a spoiler for Crimson Lake. I went back today and edited to hide the spoiler. I hope only Bruce is reading these posts without having read the earlier book!


message 26: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14297 comments Jan O'Cat: good point about the guilt factor. How many of us harbor guilty pangs that plague us over minor things; Ted and Dale must feel immense guilt for not protecting Claire, Dale as a father, Ted as a policeman. Ted for the seemingly minor act of having a fight with his wife.
OMalleycat wrote: "For a man as reflective and ruminative (and depressive) as Ted, who’s gone over those minutes thousands of times, I think he has guilt that would subdue his urge to proclaim his innocence. And as a policeman he would feel guilt—unjustified to us—for not somehow preventing the attack on Claire.
Stopping crime is what he does. Why couldn’t he have stopped this one? If only he hadn’t been so much in his own thoughts; if only he’d stayed for a few more minutes. That life-altering guilt (which is also revealed in his sympathy for Dale) would be enough to leave him ambivalent about loudly championing his innocence..."



Bruce Perrin | 127 comments After thinking I was late to this thread and I’d probably finish with maybe one or two comments to my thoughts, this has grown into an interesting exchange … at least for me.

First, I unintentionally misled you a bit. I didn’t mean Ted wouldn’t defend himself if asked. I meant almost universally, someone falsely accused would defend themselves. Most of us could only proclaim our innocence. Ted could do more. Why isn’t he?

To me, this discussion rests on three premises. One, being accused of Ted’s crime would ruin someone’s life. I have no trouble believing that. Two, Ted still has the skills to clear his name. Three, he isn’t, however, doing anything to clear it. The question is, why, and the reason in the book is that investigating his own crime would be too painful. But does that make sense? Society isn’t letting him forget, the pain isn’t subsiding, it’s festering (that’s the bulk of Ted’s part of the story). And yet, none of his inner thoughts are, this isn’t working; I need to clear myself. So, at that point, you almost have to go the next step – this is some kind of unconscious, self-punishment. Fox doesn’t say that; I had to come up with an explanation for her (and several others in this thread seem to have had similar thoughts). But the more I have to do that to make sense of a character, the more I think the author hasn’t done her/his job. The way Fox leaves things, I’d stick with my first comment – Ted’s indifference seems strange.


message 28: by Ann (last edited Apr 29, 2019 09:55AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14297 comments Bruce: It is good to be able to discuss again with the group and thanks for clarifying. It is odd that Ted isn’t all in for investigating who attacked Claire himself.
I think the answer to why more of us aren’t screaming in these comments for Ted to investigate his own case lies in that exploration of ‘why he didn’t want to’ which did occur in the first book.
That said, I don’t think Crimson Lake will answer the actual question of why so much as what happened after, and it makes me want to go back and reread it to see if Ted’s motives were clearer. That in itself is unusual; I rarely if ever reread, but Crimson Lake was that good.
If Carol (Bonadie) was in on this thread she would laugh and laugh at my next comment. I am usually one to jump right into a series or two book set with the second or later book willy-nilly and never look back but it begs to ponder how Redemption Point stands alone (or doesn’t)
In my opinion series books are different from books that pick right back up and appear to be a continuation of a story that didn’t fit in a single book for one reason or another. Redemption Point is certainly a continuation story and therefore leaves out detail from the first book as if understood - but Fox doesn’t make that clear up front or help clarify much.

These two books seem to start to try to fit the series mold and yet they don’t. I can’t finish the “don’t” part of that comment in this first ~character~ typo headed thread so will wait til the final segment to finish the thought.


OMalleycat | 1448 comments Bruce wrote: “.Two, Ted still has the skills to clear his name. "

Bruce, always good to have a new voice with whom to reconsider the book. I enjoy the way our group reads recur.

You may have realized it already but with your above comment I suddenly saw why we differ on this point. I don’t think anyone has skills to “clear” his name when he’s been publicly accused of a heinous crime. Ted has the skills to solve the mystery, but that doesn’t necessarily clear his name. Yesterday I mentioned the Atlanta Olympic bombing suspect for whom suspicion, however illogical, still lingers decades after another man was convicted for the crime. Maybe I’m excessively cynical, but exoneration doesn’t equal a cleared name in my book.

As such, I can understand why he may not want to actively pursue solving his own case. He wants to disappear from the public eye. In Crimson Lake he suffered scathing harassment when he was recognized. If he were skilled/lucky enough to solve Claire’s abduction he would again end up in the public eye and, I contend, there would be some amount of suspicion in some minds about his innocence. Perhaps more doubt just because he was the one who solved it.

All of which clashes with the plot line of his TV interview. I agree with Ann that this book appears clumsily plotted, perhaps due to a rush to publish.


message 30: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14297 comments Jan O’Cat: I meant to tell you already; your example of the Atlantic Olympic bombing suspect is spot on. I see examples of bias like that applied to Ted here or to the man accused so many years ago hundreds of times a day.
Particularly in this social media environment which Fox shows by the Free Ted / Save Ted / whatever the Friends of Ted are called; we get snippets of the most headline grabbing stories and never see any follow-up clarification in the same level of detail.
While Wikipedia has the facts straight, like Jan - I didn’t initially recall if Richard Jewell was cleared as a suspect.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cente...

OMalleycat wrote: "Bruce, always good to have a new voice with whom to reconsider the book. I enjoy the way our group reads recur.
.....I suddenly saw why we differ on this point [Ted’s investigative skills and why he isn’t using them to exonerate himself]
I don’t think anyone has skills to “clear” his name when he’s been publicly accused of a heinous crime. Ted has the skills to solve the mystery, but that doesn’t necessarily clear his name. Yesterday I mentioned the Atlanta Olympic bombing suspect for whom suspicion, however illogical, still lingers decades after another man was convicted for the crime. Maybe I’m excessively cynical, but exoneration doesn’t equal a cleared name in my book.
..."



Bruce Perrin | 127 comments There have been several mentions of "the Atlantic Olympic bombing suspect" but without googling, did anyone remember his name? Would you recognize him on the street? At first, I found Ted's persistent notoriety a bit unbelievable too vs. the usual 15 minutes of fame most criminals have. But then, all of this is from Ted's perspective and feeling the object of people's hatred, whether real or not, seems likely.


message 32: by Russ (new) - rated it 2 stars

Russ | 330 comments Richard Jewel.


Bruce Perrin | 127 comments I'm impressed, but if you tell us you go around screaming 'athlete killer' when you see him in the airport, I'll be skeptical. ;-)

I wondered if a smaller country (population-wise) made the ongoing vilification of Ted more reasonable. While trial by media ruins people in the US, Ted's continuing notoriety seemed a bit unreal.


message 34: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14297 comments Bruce: LOL Without googling 'Atlanta Olympic Bombing', no, I didn't remember Richard Jewell was the man who reported the bombs and was initially a suspect. And here we are years later reinforcing his part in it online. That's part of it too, it has been years, and social media changes add to Ted's misery. .
The smaller population and shorter span of time would probably be factors driving continued public sentiment. Even the podcast group behind Ted asserting his innocence add to his notoriety.
Bruce wrote: "I'm impressed, but if you tell us you go around screaming 'athlete killer' when you see him in the airport, I'll be skeptical. ;-)
I wondered if a smaller country (population-wise) made the ongoing
vilification of Ted more reasonable. While trial by media ruins people in the US, Ted's continuing notoriety seemed a bit unreal. .."



OMalleycat | 1448 comments Bruce wrote: "I wondered if a smaller country (population-wise) made the ongoing vilification of Ted more reasonable. "

I think the abhorrent crime of violent pedophilia and attendant public aversion to it (didn’t you say you don’t like to read books about this topic?) would make it both more memorable and more apt to spark active malevolence.

In the timeline of the books it’s been less than two years since the crime and an even shorter time since the controversial decision not to try him resulting in his release. More provocation and frustration for those who believe he’s guilty to add to the fire that’s seared him in public memory.


Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 7808 comments Geri wrote: "
As far as Kevin is concerned, I was surprised the therapist refused to treat him. It definitely seemed like a major lapse of duty. When someone is troubled, a therapist should be there to help. Not judge! So that part did not ring true to me. ..."


I agree with this, Geri. i'm not sure about the professional tenants here but I was shocked that the therapist marched the mom in and repeated everything Kevin said to her. That seemed like a betrayal of Kevin's trust that was unconscionable. Maybe she was so shocked and disgusted that she forgot herself.


Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 7808 comments OMalleycat wrote: "The part that really got me was that the therapist immediately called in his mother and told her. Way to make a bad situation worse! I took it that the therapist was so horrified by Kevin’s pedophilia that she couldn’t handle it but, gosh, surely it’s part of the job description to hear things in therapy that are outside your comfort zone. I felt sorry for Kevin because he was doing the right thing in seeking help and it all crashed around him. At the very least she should have referred him to another therapist. If Kevin turns out to be the one who assaulted Claire, I think the therapist’s license should be revoked.
..."

You said it much better than I did!


Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 7808 comments Ann wrote: "And finally I am not enjoying the insights into Kevin’s head. His childhood therapist should be disbarred or whatever happens to a thoroughly incompetent therapist. I guess we have to learn of the actual rapist somehow...."

Yes, I was not happy that this is turning out to be a book where we have to live in the head of a pedophile. This reminds me of Sandy I think, who has said she doesn't like living in the head of a serial killer. Now I know how she feels.


Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 7808 comments Ann wrote: "If Carol (Bonadie) was in on this thread she would laugh and laugh at my next comment. I am usually one to jump right into a series or two book set with the second or later book willy-nilly and never look back but it begs to ponder how Redemption Point stands alone (or doesn’t) ..."

She certainly would!


OMalleycat | 1448 comments Carol/Bonadie wrote: "..Yes, I was not happy that this is turning out to be a book where we have to live in the head of a pedophile. This reminds me of Sandy I think, who has said she doesn't like living in the head of a serial killer. Now I know how she feels"

I agree, Carol. I don’t like books where there’s a lot of material from a serial killer’s POV and I didn’t like being in Kevin’s Head either. It’s one reason I liked Redemption Point a little less than Crimson Lake.


message 41: by Ann (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ann (annrumsey) | 14297 comments Oops, I've been exposed! 😊😊😀😀

Carol/Bonadie wrote: "She certainly would!"

Ann wrote: "If Carol (Bonadie) was in on this thread she would laugh and laugh at my next comment. I am usually one to jump right into a series or two book set with the second or later book willy-nilly..."



Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 7808 comments OMalleycat wrote: "I agree, Carol. I don’t like books where there’s a lot of material from a serial killer’s POV and I didn’t like being in Kevin’s Head either. It’s one reason I liked Redemption Point a little less than Crimson Lake ..."

Still making my way through but am feeling the same... although it's good, I'm liking it a little less than Crimson Lake.


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