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Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (Harry Potter, #1)
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Harry Potter Book 1 > HP: Dumbledore Is a Horrible Teacher (spoilers for the end)

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Sean O'Hara (SeanOHara) | 2346 comments So the climax of the first book comes down to Harry doing something he's been told not to do and very nearly getting Voldemort resurrected as a result. Only Dumbledore's timely arrival saves the day, and yet Harry gets rewarded for this?

Think about it for a minute -- if Harry and pals had stayed in the dorms, Quirrell/Voldemort would've gotten to the Mirror of Erised and been like, "What? I don't get it. What am I supposed to do?" and been stuck there until Dumbledore got back. Everything would've worked out the same as in the book, except there never would've been the possibility of Voldemort getting his hands on the Philosopher's Stone. Only Harry's presence made that possible.

When you get down to it, Harry put the entire Wizarding World in danger by disobeying the rules. He should've been punished for his actions. Instead, Dumbledore steps in and rewards him. And not just a minor reward. Dumbledore structures it so that Harry and his pals become the saviors of Gryffindor, allowing them to triumph over Slytherin at the last minute. This is pure favoritism.

This batty old man should not be in a position of authority. He doesn't know what he's doing. No wonder the Wizarding World is so screwed up when this is their moral instructor.


Dara (cmdrdara) | 2462 comments Dumbledore is 100% a manipulative, deceptive person that absolutely should not be in charge of any school. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw a hippogriff.


message 3: by Phillip (new)

Phillip Murrell | 109 comments Dara wrote: "Dumbledore is 100% a manipulative, deceptive person that absolutely should not be in charge of any school. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw a hippogriff."

Word.


Iain Bertram (Iain_Bertram) | 719 comments Phillip wrote: "Dara wrote: "Dumbledore is 100% a manipulative, deceptive person that absolutely should not be in charge of any school. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw a hippogriff."

Word."


He went to the Xavier finishing school for head teachers


Melanie | 47 comments ... That guy that mentions Frodo could have just flown an eagle to Mordor. Suspend your disbelief. Your supposed to be too caught up in the world to think of an alternative solution.


message 6: by Tassie Dave, S&L Historian (new) - rated it 3 stars

Tassie Dave | 2498 comments Mod
Dumblebum is an arsehole throughout the whole series.

"What we've got here is failure to communicate"

A bit of knowledge at the right time could have save the kids from a lot of grief.

Melanie wrote: "... That guy that mentions Frodo could have just flown an eagle to Mordor. Suspend your disbelief. Your supposed to be too caught up in the world to think of an alternative solution."

and why did Frodo need to go.

As soon as Gandalf realises it is the ONE RING then tie it to a stick. Give it to an eagle and drop it in the fiery pit at Mordor.

Much more efficient, but you miss one hell of a good story ;-)


Dara (cmdrdara) | 2462 comments It’s really hard for me to suspend my disbelief when there’s an authority figure that does things that are harmful to the children he’s in charge of but oh, nobody worry about it. He’s just so wise and we’ll understand is ways and why he put them through such mortal danger when he should have been protecting them...


message 8: by Rick (last edited Mar 01, 2019 04:47PM) (new)

Rick | 2275 comments Tassie Dave wrote: " why did Frodo need to go.

As soon as Gandalf realises it is the ONE RING then tie it to a stick. Give it to an eagle and drop it in the fiery pit at Mordor.

Much more efficient, but you miss one hell of a good story ;-) ..."


So... here's the thing about the whole 'give it to the eagles..."

For much of Sauron's reign, the Nazgul patrolled the skies over Mordor and were in any event around. Eagles flying into Mordor headed to Mt Doom would be easy pickings and... boom, guess who has his Ring back?

Also, the Ring *corrupts*. Who's to say that an eagle wouldn't be swayed on the flight and simply land and give the Ring to its master? Hobbits, on the other hand, seem to have high resistance to its influence, which is why a hobbit takes it.

On Dumbledore...well, no one ever has said the Potter books are remarkable literature and this is the first of them and Rowling's first novel to boot, so...


message 9: by Tracey (last edited Mar 01, 2019 06:15PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Tracey | 49 comments I've always thought that Dumbledore knows how the books will end. He knows Harry needs to become a brave, strong willed, throw-himself-into-danger kind of person so he can defeat Voldemort when the time comes. He lets Harry break the rules in order to do what he thinks is right, and rewards him for it, as a way to groom/mold him into the man he needs to become.

I don't know how I formed that idea. I guess it's just because Dumbledore always seems to know the solutions for every problem. And we keep being told how great and powerful Dumbledore is throughout the series.

Thoughts?


message 10: by Ruth (new) - added it

Ruth | 414 comments Tassie Dave wrote: "Dumblebum is an arsehole throughout the whole series.

"What we've got here is failure to communicate"

A bit of knowledge at the right time could have save the kids from a lot of grief.
..."


Re-reading as an adult I always think Dumbledore is a complete douche who really shouldn’t be in any position of authority, or responsible for children.

These web comics skewer him nicely http://emilymcgovern.com/category/my-...

(Spoilers for all books)


message 11: by Phillip (new)

Phillip Murrell | 109 comments Rick wrote: "So... here's the thing about the whole 'give it to the eagles..."

For much of Sauron's reign, the Nazgul patrolled the skies over Mordor and were in any event around. Eagles flying into Mordor headed to Mt Doom would be easy pickings and... boom, guess who has his Ring back?

Also, the Ring *corrupts*. Who's to say that an eagle wouldn't be swayed on the flight and simply land and give the Ring to its master? Hobbits, on the other hand, seem to have high resistance to its influence, which is why a hobbit takes it"


The Youtube channel, How It Should Have Ended, has the perfect version for letting the eagles do the work. I love those cartoons!


message 12: by Tassie Dave, S&L Historian (new) - rated it 3 stars

Tassie Dave | 2498 comments Mod
Phillip wrote: "The Youtube channel, How It Should Have Ended, has the perfect version for letting the eagles do the work. I love those cartoons! "

You forgot the link ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD...

Though who pronounces chasm with a 'ch' sound? :-?


Rebecca (Raitalle) | 35 comments One of my favorite podcasts (aside from S&L ;) ), Witch, Please, spent a pretty good amount of time talking about Hogwarts as a school and the teachers there. The basic conclusion is that the place is a horrible school, haha.

I love the Background Slytherin comics, Ruth! Thank you for that link, I hadn't actually read the earliest ones before.


message 14: by Nils (new) - rated it 4 stars

Nils Krebber | 122 comments It was her first book and she probaby was not sure if there ever would be Sequels, that's why she went for mega-happy-ending. I do agreed it makes zero sense.
From an adult Point of view and with hindsight, it would have made even more interesting to let Slytherin or some other House win at the beginning, especially because of Harry and Friends Actions - this would have made their victory much sweeter in one of the later books.
But, if I was the target audience (remember, this is for 10 year olds) that would have bummed me out extremely - "Hey, Harry, Ron and Hermione saved everybody - how Can they let the bullies win?"


Hyena | 34 comments Tassie Dave wrote: "Phillip wrote: "The Youtube channel, How It Should Have Ended, has the perfect version for letting the eagles do the work. I love those cartoons! "

You forgot the link ;-)

https://www.youtube.com..."


Well if yer gonna post that, might as well go all the way. Spoilers for all the Potter books, if you haven't read or seen the movies, obviously...

https://youtu.be/YsYWT5Q_R_w


Jenny (Reading Envy) (readingenvy) | 2366 comments I've always seen Dumbledore as the general who did really well in the war, but the war is over, so he's been given a position of respect/power, but also one that is not actually at the center. Like a medium retirement.

Jude Law Dumbledore dressed in suits but by the time he's the headmaster he's wearing velvet gowns and bright colors so I would venture to say he's lived quite a bit of life in between. And I think they were shuffling him off to where they thought he couldn't do much harm, because we know - he's messy. He acts impulsively. He has a bit of an ego. Maybe this works better in the school for magic than the ministry.....


message 17: by Iain (new) - rated it 3 stars

Iain Bertram (Iain_Bertram) | 719 comments Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "I've always seen Dumbledore as the general who did really well in the war, but the war is over, so he's been given a position of respect/power, but also one that is not actually at the center. Like..."

Then they should have made him Chancellor at Unseen University...

You don't let someone like that near the students. Let him feel like he has power and make random speeches about his exploits on graduation day and other events.


Jenny (Reading Envy) (readingenvy) | 2366 comments Iain wrote: "Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "I've always seen Dumbledore as the general who did really well in the war, but the war is over, so he's been given a position of respect/power, but also one that is not..."

But I think the adults (in the novels) are seeing the children like many adults do, and this is damning as JK intended, that they aren't participants, they can't help, they're young... it creates the perfect environment for a somewhat imperfect teacher figure to have a massive impact on a little boy who up until this point had nobody in his life who really showed an interest in him.

In a different novel, Dumbledore would be the abuser, in the same circumstance. The formula is the same - children should be seen and not heard, this problematic person is shoved into this position where he has promised not to mess up one more time, and who cares what an orphan has to say?

I dunno, I can see it.


message 19: by Nils (last edited Mar 11, 2019 07:25AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Nils Krebber | 122 comments Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "I've always seen Dumbledore as the general who did really well in the war, but the war is over, so he's been given a position of respect/power, but also one that is not actually at the center. Like..."

That works only as headcanon, as Dumbledore turned down the post of Minister of Magic. No, he is intended as a great guy, it just doesn't work if you look at it from a greater perspective. But then you wouldn't have the same adventures. I get how it happened - as an author, you sometimes come up with these great things your protagonists should accomplish, and things like the greater world are kind of in the way. So you only involve them as needed, and the end result can look a bit askew.

You forgot the link ;-)

htt..."


message 20: by Pat (new) - added it

Pat A | 21 comments This is not to mention the fact that, at the very beginning of the term, Dumbledore tells everyone that the forest is off limits. Then he (presumably) sanctions detention for three first-years stomping around the forest in the middle of the night to look for something killing unicorns. Well intentioned or not, I think Hogwarts needs a visit from the Department of Magical Child Protective Services.


Jenny (Reading Envy) (readingenvy) | 2366 comments Nils wrote: "Dumbledore turned down the post of Minister of Magic.."

I work in academia, and that smacks of "Dumbledore negotiated to let them say he turned it down when in reality he was sacked."

Heh.


message 22: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian Seal (Rebel-Geek) | 133 comments Pat wrote: "Well intentioned or not, I think Hogwarts needs a visit from the Department of Magical Child Protective Services."

This made me choke on a laugh at work. Thank you, Pat.


message 23: by Steve (new)

Steve (plinth) | 156 comments Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "Jude Law Dumbledore dressed in suits but by the time he's the headmaster he's wearing velvet gowns and bright colors so I would venture to say he's lived quite a bit of life in between."
I would go on to say that at this point in his life, he has precisely 0 forks left to give about much of anything.


message 24: by Nils (last edited Mar 14, 2019 02:01AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Nils Krebber | 122 comments I just came across this one and keep thinking - why does Dumbledore let Hagrid do anything involving protecting children.
Just from the Forest Scene.
Malfoy: "I heard there's werewolves and dangerous stuff here."
Hagrid: "Don't worry, not as long as I am here to protect you. Now lets split up!"
Granted, he does give him his dog as protection, but we are talking about a Forest with wild Centaurs, Giant Spiders and something that kills unicorns he doesn't even know about.


message 25: by Iain (new) - rated it 3 stars

Iain Bertram (Iain_Bertram) | 719 comments Nils wrote: "I just came across this one and keep thinking - why does Dumbledore let Hagrid do anything involving protecting children.
Just from the Forest Scene.
Malfoy: "I heard there's werewolves and dange..."


Natures way of keeping the number of Wizards down to manageable levels..


message 26: by Aaron (new)

Aaron | 236 comments Rebecca wrote: "...Witch, Please, spent a pretty good amount of time talking about Hogwarts as a school and the teachers there. The basic conclusion is that the place is a horrible school, haha."

They also have a magic hat that sorts all of the selfish power-hungry sociopaths in the same dorm so they can build their power base early, instead of maybe a few extra ethics classes. How is there not a Voldemort-level catastrophe every few years?
(Just before posting, I realized that maybe each one wipes out most of that generation's megavillain competition.)


message 27: by Eric (new) - rated it 4 stars

Eric Mesa (djotaku) | 611 comments I think I didn't have as much trouble with it because I read it thusly:

Dumbledore knows he's a freakin' great wizard. So his flaw is thinking that he can solve everything on his own. He doesn't involve the kids in everything because he thinks he's got it. (Remember his effed up hand later in the series because he thought he could ... something with a ring? I've only read it once) That plus he thinks he's SO smart he can drop enough hints to Harry and Co. to manipulate them.

Aaron wrote: "They also have a magic hat that sorts all of the selfish power-hungry sociopaths in the same dorm so they can build their power base early, instead of maybe a few extra ethics classes. How is there not a Voldemort-level catastrophe every few years?
(Just before posting, I realized that maybe each one wipes out most of that generation's megavillain competition.) ."


I'm pretty sure that's the plot of some SFF short story I've read. Give or take a few details to make it not infringe on HP copyrights. That said, it shouldn't be a surprise given the fact they bring back the Triwizard contest which had been suspended because of death of students!


message 28: by Beth (new) - rated it 4 stars

Beth | 13 comments Another thank you to Ruth for the link to the Background Slytherin series -- I laughed several times and it was a good reminder of the plot of the whole series.


message 29: by Ruth (new) - added it

Ruth | 414 comments Beth wrote: "Another thank you to Ruth for the link to the Background Slytherin series -- I laughed several times and it was a good reminder of the plot of the whole series."

You’re welcome!


Margaret | 9 comments This is a great thread, this is why I follow S&L. And right up there with Amy's take down of Indiana Jones in Big Bang Theory.


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