We Were the Mulvaneys by Joyce Carol Oates, or the Joyce Carol Oates book of your choice (May/June 2019)

[Judy]

I'll be interested to hear more about My Life as a Rat, Nigeyb. It strikes me that "slow-motion car crash" also works as a description for some parts of We Were the Mulvaneys.

Your mention of Niagara reminds me that I really liked JCO's novel The Falls, which I must have read soon after it was published in 2004/2005/

[Nigeyb]

Me too Angela

[Nigeyb]

My Life as a Rat


I spoke to soon about the abuse however it is not dwelt upon, so not too difficult to read about

@44% this book certainly does not get any cheerier, however, whilst terribly sad, it is also very compelling

[Judy]

I've finished We Were the Mulvaneys now and I think it's superb - not always an easy read, but a book which I'm sure I will be thinking about for ages. I was torn between 4 and 5 stars but in the end went for 5!

The odd thing is, I read it before, years ago, didn't really like it and turned away from JCO afterwards. Maybe it was the wrong time for me to read it then and the right time now.

[Roman Clodia]

That's excellent news, Judy!

I'm on 20% and am impressed by the way JCO mingles her style, moving from Judd's 1st person narrative to something akin to stream of consciousness to get us inside Marianne's feelings - it feels seamless, almost unnoticeable, but is probably hard to pull off technically.

[Judy]

I agree about the mingled style working well, RC. I also like the way she moves between Judd narrating in the first person and third person within his sections, suddenly distancing us from him and giving a feeling of the events being in the past.

[Nigeyb]

A question for anyone who has read a few JCO books - does she ever do humour?


My Life as a Rat is so unremittingly bleak that I was curious about how typical it might be, especially in terms of the extent to which might employ humour in some of her work

[Roman Clodia]

Nigeyb wrote: "A question for anyone who has read a few JCO books - does she ever do humour?"

Yes, but it tends to be weird humour rather than cosy and comfortable - I'm thinking of The Accursed, for example, which is darkly funny amidst a whole lot of other emotions. My review for it is here, spoilers hidden, if that helps: www.goodreads.com/review/show/2137411196

I've only read a handful of her prolific output but would generally agree that she tackles big, bleak subjects which aim to provoke and challenge.

[Nigeyb]

Thanks Roman Clodia.


I think perhaps I have chosen the wrong book to start with. I am hanging on in there in the hope of a redemptive ending. Surely @80% it can’t get any grimmer.

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

I don't think Oates writes anything but bleak, except when she writes horror.

[Judy]

Mulvaneys is definitely bleak, and I think the others I've read by her are too - though there are some lighter passages in them.

[Nigeyb]

Bleak-lit then?

[Nigeyb]

My Life as a Rat


I've finished. 3 stars. It's compelling, well written and very immersive but so unremittingly bleak, almost unbelievably so. I just found it too much. I raced through it to be shot of it.

I'll try and pen a more considered review soon.

[Roman Clodia]

I didn't want to say anything to put you off, Nigeyb, but I didn't like Rat, only 2.5 stars from me - I don't think it's typical of JCO: as you say, it becomes too unbelievable that Violet should be such a victim.

[Nigeyb]

Thanks Roman Clodia - that's helpful, and reassuring

[Nigeyb]

My Life as a Rat


Here’s my review

3/5

[Angela M]

I’m starting My Life as a Rat today . It doesn’t sound like it met up to expectations for Nigeyb or Roman Clodia, but since it’s an advanced copy I feel committed to giving it a try . I have read a few other books by Oates , all of them bleak so I’m prepared I think . We’ll see !

[Nigeyb]

As I mentioned to you under my review Angela, it's got many positive attributes tooHence my three star rating. It is very unquestionably very compelling. I look forward to your reaction.

[Angela M]

I’ve read 30 % of My Life as a Rat and it’s certainly bleak as Nigeyb described earlier. I’m totally taken in even though a few scenes are pretty brutal. This early part is from Violet’s twelve year old perspective and I’m finding it heartbreaking for her. The blatant racism feels realistic and sadly it’s still so prevalent.
The family dynamics are of the role of males vs females makes me feel that the time should be in the 50’s or 60’s rather than the 90’s.
I’m hooked .
An aside : I live in upstate NY about an hour and forty minute drive to Niagara Falls and a little less than that from Lockport where Oates was born.
Is anyone else reading this ? I want to be sure not to give any spoilers.

[Diane S ☔]

I just started, hope to get far enough to comment soon.

[Angela M]

Great , Diane . I’ll be careful not to include any spoilers.

[Angela M]

I made it through 60 % of My Life as a Rat and this is pretty brutal, a tough read. Putting it down for now . I’ll make my way through the rest of it tomorrow.

[Nigeyb]

Thanks Angela


Out of interest, what do you make of Niagara Falls?

I had no idea there was/is apparently so much racism and racial tension in that part of the US

[Angela M]

Nigeyb wrote: "Thanks Angela


Out of interest, what do you make of Niagara Falls?

I had no idea there was/is apparently so much racism and racial tension in that part of the US"

Nigeyb, it’s sad that there is still so much racism and definitely racial tension in the US and it doesn’t seem to be limited to any one part of the country. In recent years, there was a young black boy in California walking in his father’s neighborhood who was shot and killed by a man who thought he was suspicious. The man got off. There have been quite a lot of incidents recently in the news in various parts of the country where white people call the police on black people for being in their own neighborhoods , their own apartments doing normal things . There are numerous incidents of black people being pulled over by police ending in the shooting of the black person. I don’t recall where these incidents took place . Having said that the very brutal murder of the young black man felt like it belonged in another era. Perhaps the point is that it did not.
There has been a movement in the US called Black Lives Matter and I think this is reflection of the existing racism.

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

Angela M wrote: "There has been a movement in the US called Black Lives Matter and I think this is reflection of the existing racism. .."

Which, ironically, is one of the most racist organizations in the country.

[Angela M]

I’ve finished My Life as a Rat and have rated it 3.5 rounding up. Brutal, difficult to read but powerful. I’ll wait to comment any more until Diane has a chance to chime in. I’ll be writing a review.

[Nigeyb]

Thanks Angela. I was aware of most of that, it was just the racism being so far north that seemed surprising. And that it was so extreme, at least as depicted in the book. Perhaps I have a skewed perception that it ismore prevalent in the southern states? Either way it's all incredibly depressing.

I agree with your summation of the book and look forward to reading your review.

[Jan C]

Nigeyb wrote: "Thanks Angela. I was aware of most of that, it was just the racism being so far north that seemed surprising. And that it was so extreme, at least as depicted in the book. Perhaps I have a skewed p..."

It was always more out in the open in the South. Dr. King found Chicago to be rhe most racist city that he visited. In the North, much of it has to do with where they are limited to living in, at least historically.

I went to an all white grade school. Busing and integration of the schools (elementary) occurred after I had started jr. High/middle school - these and the high school in my suburb were already integrated. This was mid-'60s.

[Diane S ☔]

I'm taking a break for a few days before I finish. I'm currently reading A Mighty Long Way: My Journey to Justice at Little Rock Central High School and just finished In The Shadow of Wolves, both difficult reads. Need to space these emotional reads s bit.

[Angela M]

I finished My Life as a Rat . 3.5 stars rounded up . My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Diane , I’ll come back to comment when you post .

[Diane S ☔]

I've continued and am now at 20%. I do have to admire how authentically she is portraying this matter. Horrible yes, but also seems very real. That's how it was and in many cases still is.

[Angela M]

Diane , I agree . Gut wrenching- it felt so real. I’ll be watching for your continued thoughts.

[Diane S ☔]

More than half way now, and am going to stop again for a bit. Her family is just awful, don't understand how they can abandon her. Now the parts with Mr. Sandman, she can't seem to catch a break. Depressing.

[Angela M]

Diane, I thought that the family dynamics felt like it was from another time . Definitely depressing. I’ve read several by Oates , but this was the darkest for me.

[Nigeyb]

I'm reliving it again.