Outlander Series discussion

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Outlander on Starz Season 4 > Episode 8: Wilmington

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message 1: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1356 comments Airs in the US December 23, 2018


message 2: by Teresa (last edited Dec 25, 2018 05:50PM) (new)

Teresa Mader | 169 comments Powerful episode, only made more so by not actually showing the whole thing. Enjoyed the one-liner about the cherry tree, still remember some of those tall tales taught to us in elementary school. Glad they are finding ways to fit Murtagh in believably too. Oh and hope you and your families had a wonderful holiday.


message 3: by Lauren (new)

Lauren | 25 comments I have a question. It seems to me that in the TV version Roger had called Brianna to tell her about her mom and the fire, only to get her roommate who told Roger that Brianna was in Scotland. Then, during their argument Brianna accused Roger of knowing the fate of her parents, but not telling her. Am I correct in what I saw/heard? If so, why didn’t Roger just tell Brianna that he tried to contact her, to no avail?


message 4: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Mader | 169 comments I think she thought he knew it all at the first phone call, and held it back from her then


message 5: by Lauren (new)

Lauren | 25 comments That would make sense. Thanks


message 6: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1356 comments I liked this episode and how they focused on Brianna and Roger. In the book it was done in sections but I feel that it works better this way for the show. It really hit home how normal rape was in those times when everyone in the bar heard it but nobody did anything. In the book they were on the boat and I remember the sailors were in the other cabin but though it was jarring that nobody did anything it didn't smack me in the face like this did.
I can't wait till Bree and Jamie finally meet!


message 7: by Jen (new)

Jen (jennibug23) | 16 comments Lauren wrote: "I have a question. It seems to me that in the TV version Roger had called Brianna to tell her about her mom and the fire, only to get her roommate who told Roger that Brianna was in Scotland. Then,..."

The book was full of misconceptions/misunderstandings.... I wonder if this season will echo that theme?


message 8: by Cheri (new)

Cheri (cherirnhealer) | 145 comments I would like to know what everyone thought of Jamie elbowing Mr. Fanning in the side during the play which caused him to double over in agony, thereby creating the disturbance that Jamie deliberately created.

The man probably had an incarcerated inguinal hernia which was causing the intestine to protrude through the weakness in the musculature causing "paroxysms of pain".

Did anyone think that Claire acted unethically by performing emergency surgery without the man's informed consent?
She may have as she said to Jamie been doing him a favor since he would never have asked for surgery.

Doctors at that time routinely did not operate on a patient unless in cases of emergencies without anesthesia. I read that tobacco smoke enemas actually were thought to relieve hernias. The writers weren't far off there.


message 9: by Silverblades (new)

Silverblades | 265 comments In the books, one of the things that influenced Claire's decision to return to the eighteenth century was the opportunity to practice medicine more freely. She had been offered a "promotion" to a desk job after acting as she saw fit to ease the suffering of a terminal patient. In late sixties through the early seventies medicine made a huge shift from doctors having something of a free rein and became far more specialized by legal and ethical regulations.


message 10: by Silverblades (new)

Silverblades | 265 comments As for her operating on someone without his consent, there's a lovely thing called implied consent. If a patient is incoherent with pain or unconscious, it is the responsibility of any medical professional to act in the best interest of the patient's health. This also applies to treatment of minors when a parent or guardian is not present to give consent.


message 11: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1356 comments I don't think Jamie understood the danger he could have been putting Mr. Fanning in by elbowing him. I think Claire was right to operate without consent because she understood the medical situation and needs much better than doctors of the time did. l also think Silverblades is right about doctors having free reign - their word was law when Claire was in medical school. Do you remember how they forced her to take anesthesia when she was having Bree? They did not care about patient consent then.

On a different note I wonder if the phrase " blowing smoke up your ass" comes from the tobacco smoke enema?


message 12: by MissSusie (new)

MissSusie | 145 comments Diane wrote: "I don't think Jamie understood the danger he could have been putting Mr. Fanning in by elbowing him. I think Claire was right to operate without consent because she understood the medical situation..."

I wondered the same thing about that saying!


message 13: by Cheri (new)

Cheri (cherirnhealer) | 145 comments Silverblades wrote: "As for her operating on someone without his consent, there's a lovely thing called implied consent. If a patient is incoherent with pain or unconscious, it is the responsibility of any medical prof..."

Silverblades,
I was always certain that there was a law of some kind that protected and enabled medical personnel such as paramedics or emergency room personnel and physicians who are qualified and required to perform medical care to patients who are either unconscious due to a car accident, cardiac emergencies, etc.
https://legaldictionary.net/implied-c...
So Claire would have been within her rights to provide treatment on Mr. Fannning as she saw fit since she proved that she knew what she was doing. She believed that the man's life may be endangered if she didn't operate on him.

Cheri


message 14: by Cheri (new)

Cheri (cherirnhealer) | 145 comments Diane wrote: "I don't think Jamie understood the danger he could have been putting Mr. Fanning in by elbowing him. I think Claire was right to operate without consent because she understood the medical situation..."

Diane,

You are right about the "blowing smoke up your ass" expression.
https://www.interesly.com/tobacco-smo...

Doctors really did believe this procedure would help a hernia and it was not till long after that depressant effects on a patient from tobacco was found to be harmful. although physicians operated under the guise of "thou shalt do no harm", in their ignorance,,, they often did more harm than if they had done nothing at all to treat their unfortunate patients.


message 15: by Sandy (new)

Sandy | 18 comments Cheri wrote: "I would like to know what everyone thought of Jamie elbowing Mr. Fanning in the side during the play which caused him to double over in agony, thereby creating the disturbance that Jamie deliberate..."

Diane, I cannot believe you are concerned about "informed consent". You do know the story takes place in the 1700's, right? You talk about "informed consent" and "implied consent" like these things existed in those days -- they didn't! Wake up and smell the porridge. Claire saved Fanning's life and Jamie saved Murtaugh's even though his methods were less than honorable, particularly since he's letting the Governor think that General Washington is the one who tipped off the Regulators...


message 16: by Silverblades (new)

Silverblades | 265 comments Cheri wrote: "Silverblades wrote: "As for her operating on someone without his consent, there's a lovely thing called implied consent. If a patient is incoherent with pain or unconscious, it is the responsibilit..."
I'm an EMT. There are times when we literally have to wait for a stubborn patient to actually pass out so that we can begin to transport/ treat them. This patient is usually an older gentleman with blood pressure or blood sugar complaint whose wife called the ambulance.


message 17: by Cheri (new)

Cheri (cherirnhealer) | 145 comments Silverblades,
It must be so frustrating to have to deal with lay people for just don't understand the danger they can be placing themselves in by arguing with someone who is trying to help them. I empathize with you. In my nursing experience, I did my share of reasoning with people to let me help them.


message 18: by Silverblades (new)

Silverblades | 265 comments The funny thing is that when it comes to my own health, I'm very much the tough it out type and have a serious distaste for doctors, hospitals, and medical intervention.


message 19: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1356 comments Sandy wrote: "Cheri wrote: "I would like to know what everyone thought of Jamie elbowing Mr. Fanning in the side during the play which caused him to double over in agony, thereby creating the disturbance that Ja..."

Sandy that is kind of a harsh post. Not sure why you are being rude to me when I was not the one concerned about informed consent. Besides everyone is open to their thoughts and opinions and often people are looking from different perspectives. I think a great discussion is one with different opinions, ideas and perspectives carried on with respect and an open mind.


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