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message 1: by Louie (last edited Aug 17, 2014 11:28PM) (new)

Louie (rmutt1914) | 885 comments Ann Leckie's Ancillary Justice (Orbit) took the top prize of Best Novel. No surprise there. I believe Veronica called this result, months ago.

What do you think about the other winners? How many of the nominees have you read?

READ THE FULL LIST OF WINNERS/NOMINEES
Announcing the 2014 Hugo Award Winners

The Retrospective Hugo Awards were also announced.


message 2: by Ben (new)

Ben Nash | 200 comments I kinda thought Wheel of Time would win. I think Ancillary Justice is deserving, but I thought that Jordan's fans would jump at this chance.


message 3: by Keidy (last edited Aug 18, 2014 12:34AM) (new)

Keidy | 525 comments I thought Ancillary Justice was simply AMAZING! I just finished reading it just the other night and I couldn't be more impressed. I was really impressed that this is Ann Leckie's debut novel and the good thing about holding off is that I don't have long to wait for her next book, Ancillary Sword, that is coming out this October, just in time for my birthday! XD

I've never heard of the winner for Best Graphic Story though. Time by Randall Munroe (XKCD)... hmmm... I should check that out.


message 4: by Rob, Roberator (new)

Rob (robzak) | 6903 comments Mod
I'd have trouble voting. I liked A Memory of Light more than Ancillary Justice, which I also enjoyed, but the WoT series as a whole? Man there are some really awful books in the middle..


message 5: by Louie (new)

Louie (rmutt1914) | 885 comments Keidy wrote: "I've never heard of the winner for Best Graphic Story though."

Yeah, neither have I. Surprising that it didn't go to Saga. It's been getting so much positive feedback, well-deserved feedback might I add, and from readers who usually don't venture into comic books/graphic novels.


message 6: by Misti (new)

Misti (spookster5) | 493 comments This may be a dumb question, but what's the difference between a novella and a novelette?


message 7: by Wastrel (new)

Wastrel | 184 comments It's great to see that the geniuses of the internet generation are finally noticed even at the Hugos, traditionally seen as a rather old-fashioned set of awards. There's no doubt surely that Munroe is just as great a writer as most of the more traditional authors who get recognised with these awards - and vastly more ambitious, artistically. It would help if the categories were more encouraging: internet writers have to battle it out trying to subvert categories like 'fanzine', 'fan writer', 'fan artist' or 'graphic story' (and now 'fancast'), none of which are really geared toward blogs, webcomics and the like (which is part of why Munroe, for instance, was nominated twice as 'fan artist' before breaking through in 'graphic story', even though it's all been for his webcomic).

Louie/Kady: xkcd is a webcomic, which portrays the way of looking at the world of a geek (Munroe used to work for NASA). Sometimes it's stupid jokes, sometimes it's jokes that only computer coders or physicists will understand, sometimes it's reflections on the human condition, flights of fancy, or just weird thoughts. Sometimes it's trivial and sometimes very serious. Some of them are immense infographics, detailing for instance the party constitution of the US legislature since 1776, or the relative depth of gravity wells in the solar system, or the radiation exposure from various things measured in equivalent banana consumption, etc etc. Some of it is beautiful, although his default medium is stick figures.

'Time' looked at first like a fairly nondescript one-panel comic. However, it's also an experiment in form, because the codes behind the site was set to alter the panel at preset times - sometimes by only one or two pixels, sometimes by more. This essentially created a very slow animation, which lasted in the end for 123 days and over 3000 panels. Dialogue was very sparse, and there wasn't even warning that the panels would change, so it completely mystified the audience (personally, I early on became concerned that it was going to end up being a sad announcement, probably related to his partner's cancer, which made checking back on it a rather intimidating experience). Because the panel updated so slowly and did not display previous panels, reading it required active work: you had to check back periodically, and if you hadn't been there for the start you needed to find out from others what had happened. As a result of this interactivity and the tantalising nature of the content, entire enyclopedias and communities sprung up among those watching it, complete with its own subculture. The story itself was researched in staggering detail - star patterns, for instance, were calculated to be accurate to the story's location and time period, while an entire fictional language was created by a linguist for some of the dialogue.

And it was just one of the tri-weekly updates to the comic (mondays, wednesdays and fridays - on tuesdays Munroe writes an amusing 'what if' article on a scenario submitted by readers).


Joe Informatico (joeinformatico) | 888 comments There are people on the internet who've never heard of XKCD? Now I've really seen everything. :-)

Misti wrote: "This may be a dumb question, but what's the difference between a novella and a novelette?"

Current Hugo guidelines:

Novel: 40,000 words or more
Novella: 17,500 - 40,000 words
Novelette: 7,500 - 17,500 words
Short Story: Less than 7,500 words.


message 9: by Andy (last edited Aug 18, 2014 06:09AM) (new)

Andy (andy_m) | 311 comments Misti wrote: "This may be a dumb question, but what's the difference between a novella and a novelette?"

Novelette: 7500 - 17,500 words
Novella: 17,500 - 40,000 words

Weird, right?


message 10: by Fiona (last edited Aug 18, 2014 06:46AM) (new)

Fiona (deifio) | 95 comments Yay for Randall Munroe! I was really happy seeing him on the nominees list and now he's won!

For those who want to have a look at "Time". Some fans stitched all the panels together. You can go through the panels at you own pace:
http://geekwagon.net/projects/xkcd1190/


message 11: by Misti (new)

Misti (spookster5) | 493 comments Thanks Joe Informatico and Andy. I had no idea.


message 12: by Geoff (new)

Geoff | 128 comments Looking at the voting (http://www.loncon3.org/hugos/2014%20H...), Ancillary Justice won easily. If I'm reading correctly, Neptune's Brood was second, though Wheel of Time actually got more 1st place votes.

Anyways, I'm encouraged; seems like serious SF won out over voting shenanigans.

Geoff


message 13: by John (Taloni) (new)

John (Taloni) Taloni (johntaloni) | 4148 comments Geoff wrote: "seems like serious SF won out over voting shenanigans."

I haven't been to a Worldcon in a while, but when I was attending it struck me how few votes went into the awards. It seemed to me then that you could easily buy an award for the price of few hundred supporting memberships. I didn't think it actually happened, but now I'm curious. Have there been shenanigans in the past?


message 14: by Dustin (new)

Dustin (tillos) | 365 comments Geoff wrote: "If I'm reading correctly, Neptune's Brood was second, though Wheel of Time actually got more 1st place votes...."

Yeah, even though it was the runner-up in every voting, it only got 4th overall. I don't understand. I mean, I understand, I just don't understand. Imagining how Neil Gaiman would have cleaned house makes me feel better about Wheel's defeat.


message 15: by Andy (last edited Aug 18, 2014 12:51PM) (new)

Andy (andy_m) | 311 comments Randolph wrote: "Isn't Robert Jordan dead? How could he have written anything in 2013?"

The nomination is for the series as a whole which wrapped up in 2013. Brandon Sanderson finished the series at the request of Jordan's wife.

The Hugos allow for serialized material (like a series of books) to be nominated for an award as a whole as well as individually.


message 16: by Andy (new)

Andy (andy_m) | 311 comments Randolph wrote: "Still a bad idea even if it's legal. Couldn't the Hugo committee find enough living authors in 2013?"

Think of it as a rememberance to Robert Jordan.

Also the Hugos are nominated by fans, so for WoT to get on the ballot means that many people wanted it there.

Here is the whole process if you are interested. http://www.thehugoawards.org/the-voti...

I almost bought a membership to be able to vote this year but I would not have been able to read every nomination in time.


message 17: by terpkristin (new)

terpkristin | 4203 comments Very disappointed Ancillary Justice won but unsurprised. I thought it was dreadful at best but it was a critic's darling for no reason I can understand. An incomplete story at best with some possibly neat ideas bogged down in info dumping. The real story probably won't really come til the sequel but everybody was creaming their pants over it.

That said, I had no strong fave for best novel, only one I didn't want to win (AJ). Nice to see Aidan get one, though. :) I liked his story in the S&L Anthology.


message 18: by Ben (new)

Ben Nash | 200 comments Yeah, the Hugos are a popularity contest, and those certainly have weaknesses. I think it's fine, more or less, once you understand the nature of the thing.

My big wish is that more fans could get attending/supporting memberships so we'd see a contest more representative of fandom as a whole. Of course, there are issues with who has a leg up on these sorts of things. Not all fans are going to be able to afford the fee. Not all fans will have an easy way of reading the digital voter pack. Etc.

I think fandom in general is going through some growing pains, and it was reflected a couple of different ways in the Hugo process this year. And, caveats accepted, I feel good about the winners this year.


message 19: by Ben (new)

Ben Nash | 200 comments Randolph wrote: "I'll go away quietly after this, honest. The idea of any posthumous award is absurd. I assume a great number, maybe most, sf and horror fans are atheists. Then the giving of posthumous awards to..."

I have no idea how you can substantiate your claim about the god claims of SF fans. Let me give you one concrete point of data, though. I'm an atheist and I think that there's great value in posthumous awards. The assumption that the award is for the author is a flawed and narrow view of awards in general, and, in the case of the Hugos, a misunderstanding of the particular award. The Hugo award for each category represents the fan favorite that year, and as such, is for the fans, for historians down the road, for many groups of people. If the author of a winning piece is still alive, I'm sure it's an ego boost, but that's not the purpose of awards.

Besides, if you're going to rail on awarding dead authors, I think you overlooked this.


message 20: by Dustin (new)

Dustin (tillos) | 365 comments Randolph wrote: "I'll go away quietly after this, honest. The idea of any posthumous award is absurd. It is an award to nobody."

You aren't giving the author the award, you aren't supposed to anyway. That's why Neil dropped out, because it has gotten to the point where he's winning awards for writing his grocery list on a napkin as someone put it.

They're giving the book the award. So it makes perfect sense that Wheel of Time would be nominated considering it was just completed.

The idea is that you can give a great book an award even if you dislike the author. However, the Hugo has simply become an ego boost to some and trival to others.

Are there any sci/fantasy awards given only by authors and not by fans.


message 21: by John (Taloni) (new)

John (Taloni) Taloni (johntaloni) | 4148 comments Randolph wrote: "I assume a great number, maybe most, sf and horror fans are atheists."

Not sure why you would think that. Some 80% of the US is some flavor of Christian and other faiths take believers to close to 90%. As for myself, I'm not married to any particular religion but consider myself a Deist. There are some great SF books that use religion as a base. Heinlein's Job: A Comedy of Justice comes to mind. Clarke's Nine Billion Names of God is delicious.


message 22: by terpkristin (new)

terpkristin | 4203 comments Elizabeth wrote: "Plus, shouldn't we all be celebrating that a lovely S&L member won one (Aiden of A Dribble of Ink)? "

I mentioned it...


message 23: by Ben (new)

Ben (bennewton_1) Congrats Aiden!

I wasn't crazy about Ancillary Justice either but I'm glad a single work won. Personally I don't think something like Wheel of Time should be considered a single novel.


message 24: by Joanna Chaplin (new)

Joanna Chaplin | 1175 comments Maybe T&V could do an interview of Aiden about the Hugo? Either in the podcast, or a written one to post here?


message 25: by Tamahome (new)

Tamahome | 6376 comments Dustin wrote: "Are there any sci/fantasy awards given only by authors and not by fans..."

The Nebulas. The Hugos are basically the people's choice awards.


message 26: by Victoria (new)

Victoria Hooper (vickythinks) | 18 comments I'm really happy with the results, especially Ancillary Justice and A Dribble of Ink! Congrats Aidan! :-)


message 27: by Wastrel (new)

Wastrel | 184 comments Dustin wrote: "Are there any sci/fantasy awards given only by authors and not by fans..."

The World Fantasy Awards are awarded by an annual jury. These seem to mostly be award-winning authors, but also editors etc.


message 28: by Aidan (new)

Aidan (adribbleofink) | 53 comments Thanks, all! One of these days I'll tell the story of the time that Elizabeth tried to steal my Hugo...

;)


message 29: by Shaina (new)

Shaina (shainaeg) | 165 comments Very sad, I found Anscillary Justice horribly dull when I read it with the group. I really don't get the hype.


message 30: by Joanna Chaplin (new)

Joanna Chaplin | 1175 comments I have a theory that the fact that the text is difficult to get into, that you have to work to understand what's going on, makes people think that it's a better written book than it is. I do think she deserves praise for the multiple-viewpoints-one-person stuff, but the "everyone is referred to as female regardless of actual sex or gender" isn't as progressive as people think it is.


message 31: by Ben (new)

Ben Nash | 200 comments Joanna wrote: "I do think she deserves praise for the multiple-viewpoints-one-person stuff, but the "everyone is referred to as female regardless of actual sex or gender" isn't as progressive as people think it is. "

I think this misses the breadth of the story. I think it's about more aspects of identity than just gender, and in significant ways, and that's what makes it different from the great books that have addressed this in the past.

You still don't have to like it, though. No book--not even the most praised, most award winning book--has universal acclaim.


message 32: by Tamahome (new)

Tamahome | 6376 comments Check out this AJ review. http://xenoswarm.wordpress.com/2014/0...


message 33: by terpkristin (new)

terpkristin | 4203 comments I'm with Joanna on "difficult books" in general. It sometimes people feel like if they don't get it/it isn't easy, then it must mean it's so high fallooting that it's worthy of praise. I joked that hipsters liked AJ in my review. ;) It was definitely not for me.


message 34: by Roger (last edited Aug 20, 2014 05:38AM) (new)

Roger terpkristin wrote: "Very disappointed Ancillary Justice won but unsurprised. I thought it was dreadful at best but it was a critic's darling for no reason I can understand. An incomplete story at best with some possib..."

I agree with this statement completely, I did not like this book at all and am bummed it won.


message 35: by Andy (new)

Andy (andy_m) | 311 comments I feel like we are being a little ungracious here. I did not love all of the winners but to be honest, we all had the chance to vote.

Lets be more supportive and recognize that others disagree with us at times. I may be bummed a book that I like did not win but I am never bummed that a different book won, to me that is an important distinction.

I would like to shift the conversation to what we liked verses what we didn't.

Anyway, congratulations to all the winners.

I am buying a membership to vote next year, that way I will have my voice heard.


message 36: by Paul (new)

Paul Harmon (thesaint08d) | 639 comments terpkristin wrote: "Very disappointed Ancillary Justice won but unsurprised. I thought it was dreadful at best but it was a critic's darling for no reason I can understand. An incomplete story at best with some possib..."


My thoughts as well. I was disappointed by most of the winners to be honest.


message 37: by Paul (new)

Paul Harmon (thesaint08d) | 639 comments Ben wrote: "Let me give you one concrete point of data, though. I'm an atheist and I think that there's great value in posthumous awards. The assumption that the award is for the author is a flawed and narrow view of awards in general, and, in the case of the Hugos, a misunderstanding of the particular award."

I am also an Atheist and agree that the value of posthumous awards have a value not just to the author involved but to the genre community and it's fans.


message 38: by Louie (new)

Louie (rmutt1914) | 885 comments Andy wrote: "I would like to shift the conversation to what we liked verses what we didn't."

Thanks for trying to steer this conversation into a more positive direction.


message 39: by Paul (new)

Paul Harmon (thesaint08d) | 639 comments OK
I liked That Time won for Graphic Representation because I didnt like the other choices.

I also liked That Rains of Castemere Won for Short presentation but I liked all the choices there so would have been thrilled if Orphan Black won too it deserves some awards.

I thought Lady Astronaut of mars was the obvious choice in novelette...was my fave of the bunch

Lightspeed Magazine and Dribble of Ink were good Choices as was Patrick Hester

Since were being positive I won't give an essay on what I thought of the other choices. Spoiler alert Though ......................................................I hated them.


message 40: by Andy (new)

Andy (andy_m) | 311 comments Paul wrote: "OK
I also liked That Rains of Castemere Won for Short presentation but I liked all the choices there so would have been thrilled if Orphan Black won too it deserves some awards."


Orphan Black is constantly overlooked as REALLY fascinating TV. Great character study, cool idea, great acting, and Tatiana Maslany is a true gem.

Game of Thrones has the spotlight now, but I think Orphan Black will have the staying power to get its rewards some day.


message 41: by Dustin (new)

Dustin (tillos) | 365 comments Ben wrote: "Congrats Aiden!

I wasn't crazy about Ancillary Justice either but I'm glad a single work won. Personally I don't think something like Wheel of Time should be considered a single novel."


I'm going to switch that around and say I think the only books that should be considered for hugos are stand-alones, first books, and completed series.

How is someone supposed to come in and realistically decide if Wheel of Time deserves a Hugo by only reading the final book. You can't isolate one book in a massive series and ask if worthy of an award. Its like Peter Jackson starting with 'Return of the King' and expecting an Oscar.


message 42: by Matthew (new)

Matthew (matthewdl) | 351 comments Dustin wrote:"I'm going to switch that around and say I think the only books that should be considered for hugos are stand-alones, first books, and completed series."

I agree with you to a point. There are some series that really don't work as stand alone books and sometimes it feels like people are voting for the whole series.

Others, like Le Guin's Hainish cycle are less dependent on each other. I read (and loved) The Left Hand of Darkness years before I realized it was part of a series. I think it would be silly to disqualify a book like that because it's part of a series.

Also, building on your analogy, the Oscars look at each movie independently.

Ultimately, the solution is to vote!


message 43: by terpkristin (new)

terpkristin | 4203 comments I did vote. Althoughas I mentioned earlier in this thread, I in the novel category, I felt that I didn't really have a book I wanted to win as much as I had one that I didn't want to win.

Also, I think it's completely disingenuous to have a thread for award winners and not have it discuss results that made you happy as well as those that made you sad...especially in something like this where it's theoretically "of the people." It's nothing to do with being negative specifically but expressing feelings on results. There is an interesting thread of discussion spurring based on something someone said about why they're frustrated AJ won, IMO.

If we are only going to be positive in a book club ( in general), it would be a weak club. This thread isn't titled "congrats to the Hugo Award winners," and it would be kind of stupid if it did given how many of them DON'T subscribe here that I know of. Now, if we wanted to have a thread dedicated to congratulating Aidan, that would be a different matter. ;) :P


message 44: by Paul (new)

Paul Harmon (thesaint08d) | 639 comments Ha I didnt even know anything about Aiden being a Gr/S&L guy to be honest but that funny enough was one of my votes...well congrats then Aiden and I'm even happier its where I placed my vote knowing you're one of us...one of us...one of us...see now you got me started.

But Gravity....ppppllllltttttt...


message 45: by Shaina (new)

Shaina (shainaeg) | 165 comments I didn't vote because Anscillary Justice was the only novel in the list I had read. I wonder if part of why it won was just that there was a lot of hype so more people read it.


message 46: by Andy (last edited Aug 21, 2014 05:39AM) (new)

Andy (andy_m) | 311 comments Everyone is very welcome to disagree with me and how I view posting here.

I just remember the time period where the first thread for EVERY book was "this this book sucks" or about lemming it. I really felt that attitude sucked the life out of the group.

If I could elaborate, I am fine with disliking books, I just do not see the value in a thread being about how a book was unworthy of an award without suggesting another that was superior and why, not because one was bad exclusively but also why the other was excellent. That is why I come here personally, to talk about interesting books and ideas and to see what others love or have issues with in a critical way. When I think about what moves me, I remember what someone enjoyed or was at least critical of versus just saying a book should not have won.

A reference point for my opinion: recently on the books subreddit I suggested we all just leave GRRM alone and stop worrying about his health because it felt ghoulish. I was overwhelmingly down voted because people wanted to complain and moan about how GRRM "owed" them. I just want this group to be a more adult place. A place with more even and more considered opinions.

My opinions will stay on the positive side, that is who I want to be.


message 47: by Gary (new)

Gary (khrest) | 2 comments I may need to read up on the rules for nominations, but I'm struggling to see how 'The Water that falls..' won a Hugo as an SF story...
Surely the 'water' is the only fantastic element, yet to me it seems a metaphor anyway.
I'm not saying it's a bad story at all, but I just don't see the link.


message 48: by Matthew (new)

Matthew (matthewdl) | 351 comments I voted this year for the first time. I was cheering for Neptune's Brood because I thought it was hands down the most interesting book on the ballot. The financial systems and schemes that Stross creates and explores are enough to keep me turning the pages. Plus it had anthropomorphic-bat-shaped metahuman space pirate insurance adjusters.

Parasite was also a lot of fun to though. I think if not for (view spoiler) it would have done better on my ballot.

Ancillary Justice for me kind of fell in between the two. It wasn't as interesting or original as Neptune's Brood but wasn't as fun as Parasite. Still a good book though.


message 49: by Matthew (new)

Matthew (matthewdl) | 351 comments Gary wrote: "I may need to read up on the rules for nominations, but I'm struggling to see how 'The Water that falls..' won a Hugo as an SF story...
Surely the 'water' is the only fantastic element, yet to me i..."


And "If you were a Dinosaur my Love" is only a monologue about a hypothetical situation. There's nothing fantastical about it except for the speaker's imagination.

And Among Others probably/maybe doesn't have anything fantastical about it.

And The Martian is really more of a techno-thriller than actual SF.

And don't get me started on alternate history...

just kidding.

It's a nebulous genre and I kind of like it that way. It's because of inclusiveness! I'm all for intellectual debates about genres and subgenres and genealogy but I think events like the Hugos should be times for us all to come together.


message 50: by Trike (new)

Trike | 8768 comments Getting our panties in a twist over the Hugos is rather silly. Save it for the important stuff in life. Like the Oscars.


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