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Night and Silence (October Daye #12)
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Previous BRs - Authors; M - P > McGuire , Seanan --Night and Silence informal buddy read starts December 16, 2018

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message 1: by Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief (last edited Dec 03, 2018 08:53AM) (new)

Moderators of NBRC | 31133 comments Mod
This thread is open to discuss Night and Silence by Seanan McGuire



Synopsis
The twelfth installment of the Hugo-nominated, New York Times-bestselling Toby Daye urban fantasy series!

Things are not okay.

In the aftermath of Amandine's latest betrayal, October "Toby" Daye's fragile self-made family is on the verge of coming apart at the seams. Jazz can't sleep, Sylvester doesn't want to see her, and worst of all, Tybalt has withdrawn from her entirely, retreating into the Court of Cats as he tries to recover from his abduction. Toby is floundering, unable to help the people she loves most heal. She needs a distraction. She needs a quest.

What she doesn't need is the abduction of her estranged human daughter, Gillian. What she doesn't need is to be accused of kidnapping her own child by her ex-boyfriend and his new wife, who seems to be harboring secrets of her own. There's no question of whether she'll take the case. The only question is whether she's emotionally prepared to survive it.

Signs of Faerie's involvement are everywhere, and it's going to take all Toby's nerve and all her allies to get her through this web of old secrets, older hatreds, and new deceits. If she can't find Gillian before time runs out, her own child will pay the price. One question remains:

Who in Faerie remembered Gillian existed? And what do they stand to gain? No matter how this ends, Toby's life will never be the same.


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Devann (devannm) | 2708 comments didn't get to start this today but i definitely will in the morning


Cathy M. (mccathy77) | 5663 comments A little sad this is the last one thats been published so far! I'm starting this tonight though its late so will probably only get thru a couple chpts.


Devann (devannm) | 2708 comments haha yeah, originally i was planning on reading one a month so that the reread would take me up to the publishing of the next one but i get why you guys didn't want to wait ;)


Devann (devannm) | 2708 comments read chapters 1-3 today. probably gonna go pretty slow on this one since i literally just read it 3 months ago and they seem to get longer as she goes. this one seemed to start out a little bit slower too. the more stuff toby has to do the more awkward exposition she has to throw into the first few chapters. at some point i think you just have to assume that no one is going to be picking up your series at book 12 and just move on lol.


Cathy M. (mccathy77) | 5663 comments Very true!!!! There was definitely a lot of recapping going on.

I'm in the middle of Chpt 3 & so annoyed already...

(view spoiler)


Claudia | 435 comments I’ve just finished chapter 12 and was like what?!!
(view spoiler)

@Cathy Yeah that was really messed up and rude about how they barged in and automatically assumed she was the one who stole Gillian. It keeps making me laugh how in this book that when she tells people Gillian is missing and people reply with she’s been kidnapped? Again? I also found the whole way this book started supper depressing compared to the way the last book started. Tybalt and Toby’s problems are heartbreaking. Poor Tybalt is trying to deal with his trauma by pushing others away. It was kind of a role reversal since that’s usually toby’s thing.


Devann (devannm) | 2708 comments @Cathy haha that was my thought too re: gillian. i was like did she not JUST get kidnapped? i guess in reality it was at least 5 or 6 books ago but STILL. and yeah cliff and miranda are just the worst. why is everyone that toby knows the worst? also good point about her being legally an adult. like if she wanted to go see toby they wouldn't be able to stop her.

@Claudia yeah the whole thing is like ????????? although also kind of makes sense in a way with the way the dochas sidhe powers are. i'll wait til cathy catches up to you to get into it though lol


Cathy M. (mccathy77) | 5663 comments Must read faster! Sounds like something big coming up???

Only in mid Chpt 4 and omg Toby has a fangirl!!! Hahahaha!!!


Claudia | 435 comments Cathy M. wrote: "Must read faster! Sounds like something big coming up???

Only in mid Chpt 4 and omg Toby has a fangirl!!! Hahahaha!!!"


lol yeah that whole scene reminded me of a post i saw on tumblr of Toby being like the faerie equivalent of a Chuck Norris meme. And everyone was in a bar giving October Daye facts sayings things like “October Daye found a hope chest and threw it in the ocean due to shoddy workmanship”. “October Daye wrestled a bridge troll with her bare hands, and beat him to death”. “October found Oberon but he insulted changelings so she slammed the door back in his face”


Devann (devannm) | 2708 comments haha yeah, when i first read it i actually read it all in one day, but this time i'm gonna take my time with it. i still remember most of it from a few months ago though.

also omg do you have the link to that tumblr post because that sounds amazing and also way too accurate lol


Devann (devannm) | 2708 comments hahaha omg

“Toby Daye took over the Silences just so she could fuck the King of Cats on the royal throne,”

i lost it there. also i feel like that's the kind of thing that tybalt would find hilarious but toby would be absolutely MORTIFIED


Claudia | 435 comments @Devann Yeah Toby would be mortified but Tybalt would be all smug


Cathy M. (mccathy77) | 5663 comments Okay got thru Chpt 12 & WTF!!!!!!

(view spoiler)


Cathy M. (mccathy77) | 5663 comments Claudia wrote: "The Tumblr post http://starfirecinnamon.tumblr.com/po..."

Oh my god, my favorite part had to be the end:

Chelsea takes the mike again to save them: “I heard Toby Daye found Oberon, but he insulted changelings so she slammed the door back in his face.”

“Yeah, that tracks,” the other bar-goers generally agree.



Cathy M. (mccathy77) | 5663 comments Thru Chpt 19 -

(view spoiler)


message 20: by Claudia (last edited Dec 19, 2018 12:25PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Claudia | 435 comments @Cathy yeah that was a twist I did not see coming. but I guess becoming a selkie was the only way she would survive elf shot again as she was now human and not fae. There was still a plot hole there as previously they said it was instantly fatal to humans but Gillian lived long enough to get taken to be saved. I like how they finally explained why shifting the blood balance cured the elf shot. Even if it was a shoddy explanation of things we'd already assumed.


Devann (devannm) | 2708 comments @claudia yeah there is a lot of weird plot holes with selkies and elf shot. like a few books ago it said it was always fatal to selkies as well bc they were basically humans w/o the skin but back when connor got shot they said it only killed him bc the arrow itself hit a fatal spot so i'm just like ???? i guess i'll give seanan a pass bc she's got a LOT going on but it's still kind of annoying. although i guess w/ gillian maybe the reason turning her into a selkie worked is bc shifting blood always seems to 'burn it out', like how october survived even though she is still part human ...lots to think about lol


Claudia | 435 comments Finished !!! This book made me mad several times as I read it. I got mad at Janet/Miranda, Cliff and the fact that once more the person behind everything was (view spoiler)


Claudia | 435 comments Hey, have either of you read the Incryptid series? Is it good?

I might read that next. I tried Seanan McGuire's Indexing series books and I really liked them even if they were a bit weird and I loved the October Daye series so I think I want to try and see if the Incryptid series is just as good.


Devann (devannm) | 2708 comments yeah i've read all her books lol i was actually going to suggest we start the incryptid series in january if you guys were interested. there's 7 out now and 8 is out in march so we could probably get through the whole series before then.

i agree that janet/miranda is just awful. it kind of almost makes sense how amandine is though because like (view spoiler)


Claudia | 435 comments @Devann Yeah I had the same thought that Amandine has a shitty attitude towards changelings considering she is one herself. However, it also seems in the book that she completely rejected her human half. She seems to feel like you have to permanently choose one or the other. Like with Toby she was telling her that for someone who chooses faerie she never fully committed and burned all the human out. It's like she expected Toby to choose to only be one thing and not both.


I am also in to do the Incryptid series in Jan


Devann (devannm) | 2708 comments yeah a lot of the people in faerie seem to be very all or nothing about a lot of things


Cathy M. (mccathy77) | 5663 comments Finished!

Totally didn't even think about how Amandine thinks of changelings or humans. It's crazy to think her mother is human, but doesn't really seem like they have any type of relationship in the present.

Duggan - why did Toby try so hard to save him in the end? Dude slit his own throat! Let him die then! That would be one less villain we'd have to worry about later. Geez. But that's not to be and he's a prisoner. We'll see if that sticks this time.

The rock thing - Toby doesn't have to do it. Once the trial is over, that should be their punishment. Then it's all taken care of! Except if they somehow manage to survive...

And yes that was totally creepy of Miranda! Ewww her boyfriend married her grandma. How did Cliff not see that Miranda & Toby looked similar and even had some of the same mannerisms. Blind devotion or denial? I really hope that Gillian is told the truth about Toby & Miranda and she lets her anger go enough to at least try with Toby. Miranda needs to get off her high horse and Cliff can shove it.


Cathy M. (mccathy77) | 5663 comments I've only read her Wayward Children series so far so I'll join in for InCrypid.


Devann (devannm) | 2708 comments i'm probably not going to finish it til next week at this rate - i'm still at 25% lol. just not motivated to read it again so soon i guess, but the flip side to that is that i remember most of it thankfully.

i agree it's so creepy that toby's grandma basically stole her ex boyfriend. like ...your grandma is literally banging the father of your child, what kind of redneck nonsense is this lol and it's so shitty that she blamed toby for being gone for 14 years because like she KNEW she was fae the whole time so she had at least an idea of what was up / it wasn't toby's fault. ugh.

i'll go request the thread for incryptid. maybe we can get some of the people from the earlier buddy reads in this series involved again lol


Claudia | 435 comments @Cathy I know that someone else can do it but they won't because they're the "good guys". I feel that Arden though should do something to get her revenge. At the end of my ebook version it has the short story Suffer a Sea-Change which is a short story from Gillian’s point of view of being elf shot and changed. You should read it.


Cathy M. (mccathy77) | 5663 comments Claudia wrote: "@Cathy I know that someone else can do it but they won't because they're the "good guys". I feel that Arden though should do something to get her revenge. At the end of my ebook version it has the ..."

Gah screw that! The good guys deserve some justice too!! They should at least make an iron dungeon like the false queen had to keep these prisoners in. And put massive repelling charms so humans won't even go near...

I did read the short story. That's partly why I said that I hope Gillian learns the truth about Toby & Miranda. She already knows something isn't right and that everyone is keeping these huge secrets from her, but she's still so angry at Toby. That's 16 years of pent-up anger & whatever crap Miranda forced on her to get thru. Won't be easy or quick but can only hope.

I especially loved the Luidaeg in that short story. My heart breaks for her every time I think of her children, and whenever she "deals" with the selkies or the story of them/her children comes up, makes her seem more "human", not just the big bad scary monster.


Devann (devannm) | 2708 comments yeah, the luidaeg is built up as like this big ~scary monster~ but i'd actually say she's the nicest of the firstborn we've met so far lol


Cathy M. (mccathy77) | 5663 comments Devann wrote: "yeah, the luidaeg is built up as like this big ~scary monster~ but i'd actually say she's the nicest of the firstborn we've met so far lol"

For sure. Her bark is worse than her bite. At least toward our favorite gang :P


Claudia | 435 comments @cathy I want Gillian to find out the truth as well. The short story pissed me off even more. Janet/Miranda was still trying to lie and deflect from what she did. I like how Luidaeg called her out on her family stealing even if she didn't explain it to Gillian.

I think Luidaeg earned every bit of her reputation but is softer towards Toby and the gang cause they'be earned her trust and regard.


Devann (devannm) | 2708 comments @claudia i mean the luidaeg definitely still has the potential to do terrible things and sometimes does, but also she's one of the few purebloods to think of humans/merlins/changelings as like ...people who should not be murdered / not expendable in general so she's pretty much always gonna be on my good side for that lol


Claudia | 435 comments @Devann Oh yeah I know she still has the potential to do terrible things and probably will in the future. It’s like they said in the book however that she was forced into the role due to the curses placed on her. She’s forced to tell the truth and she has to fulfill requests. Because of that she built up a horrible reputation both on purpose to keep people away but also due to the costs of those requests and spite of being forced to comply.


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