"Ka: Dar Oakley in the Ruin of Ymr" by John Crowley (BR)

[Oleksandr]

re: On the timeline
(view spoiler)[Yes, this should be Romans on Albion, thus probably the 1st century AD. At the same time, mention of naked warriors "There came a huge roar as some very large ones came forth from each side, black hair to their middles and long slasher-cutter things in both hands but none of the trappings and wrappings the others had, their sex visible." meant berserkers, which should move the story to the later date. Maybe it is intentional, to show that the story isn't linear (hide spoiler)]

[Rachel]

Made no progress this weekend too much driving and visiting relatives:p

Hope to get back in starting tonight!!

[Rachel]

Ok I’m almost 10% in so have a better feel. Interesting perspective on coming of age

[Rachel]

Silvana wrote: "12%
[spoilers removed]"

Yes it is interesting - only know what crows need to know haha

[Rachel]

Silvana wrote: "I am definitely very slow in reading this novel, not deliberately because the pacing is also slow. Where are you now, Rachel?

Huh i thought I answered this before, oh well... I'm I think 15 % in maybe?

[Silvana]

Oh, that was my post from three days ago, you did answer the question ;p

Since this book is also selected as a BOTM in S&L, I will phase my reading so I could still remember the details next month. Besides, it seems that many who expressed interest are still inundated with current reads or waiting for their library. We'll take it slow, if that's okay.

[Rachel]

Yep I seem to be - but it’s fairly hefty so taking a decent chunk at a time will still take some time 😊

I did look back at all the people who wanted to read it and wondered where they were haha

[Gabi]

I'm one of them. I'm at my last BR (I think?), before I could start. Those who already read a bit: is it worth it?
The kindle version is on the expensive side (by my standards), and since I have to buy everything I want to read (my library has no English SFF) I want to make sure I'm investing my money in somehing worth it.

[Oleksandr]

Gabi wrote: "I'm one of them. I'm at my last BR (I think?), before I could start. Those who already read a bit: is it worth it? "

It depends on your taste :) I personally liked it even despite it is not the usual type of fantasy I prefer. There will be philosophizing and you won't be in the middle of sword-slashing action adventure, but more of retelling different legends in which crows took part. And the final is poignant.

[|:Jack The Sword:| Magnus Chase]

I heard this book is very good. My friends at school have read it and prompt me everyday to read it. I will read it now.

[Rachel]

I’m enjoying it so far! I’ve made it to the first part that is more than just the life of a crow kind of stuff.

So- do you like fantasy with non-humanoid protagonist?
If yes then I think you’ll enjoy it (I’m only 20% or so in)

[Gabi]

Rachel wrote: "I’m enjoying it so far! I’ve made it to the first part that is more than just the life of a crow kind of stuff.

So- do you like fantasy with non-humanoid protagonist?
If yes then I think you’ll e..."

Okay, I'm in! I like fantasy that isn't your typical medieval style human stuff.

[Rachel]

It’s almost more folklore/myth than ‘fantasy’ tho I suppose those ‘fit’ into fantasy best? Maybe this would be considered a genre bender.

Whatever I like things that are outside ‘normal’ 😆

[Gabi]

Had a short look into it (prologue) - even though I desperately try to not read two books simultaneously. And I had a flashback to a dear childhood memory. My piano teacher had a crow who he rescued and helped to get healthy again. And it stayed with him after. So I start into part I with very fond emotions.

[Rachel]

It’s meant to be for you then!

[Gabi]

I had a quiet lunch break and could read chapter 1 (view spoiler)[I think the way everything is explained through the eyes and with the knowledge of a crow is just great! Also love the foreshadowing which gives me the impression of a quite large time span. So I'm hooked how Dar Oakley's story will evolve. (hide spoiler)]

[Silvana]

Don't you just love animal POVs? Last time I read about it was Children of Time.

[Rachel]

Yes I really love seeing the world through crow eyes. The description of how People view things as paths was striking to me.

[Gabi]

I especially liked the musing about the dead.

[Gabi]

Silvana wrote: "17%
I love this quote
[spoilers removed]
Although the discussion that follows is quite a mental gymnastic."

Aw, yes! There are several quotes there that I loved. The whole of chapter 2 is just utterly beautiful!

[Gabi]

End of part I and I'm still freaking out. So far this is terrific!

[Silvana]

Cool! Now that you're there I also think I could continue to part 2 tomorrow. Still finishing another read.

[Gabi]

:D Go for it! I'm reading on. This book has me mesmerized. It is (view spoiler)[ as If I'm living in a legend unfolding. I'm fascinated by the concept of the book. And I really love Crowley's prose. This is so refreshingly different from the mainstream fantasy stuff. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Oleksandr wrote: "re: On the timeline
[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ah, yes, this could be Albion. I was thinking about Germania (well, obvious reasons for a reader like me ;)). There is certainly more revealed in Der Oakley's next reincarnations (hide spoiler)]

[Oleksandr]

Gabi wrote: "Oleksandr wrote: "re: On the timeline
[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Germania is an option, esp. bearing in mind later developments. I thought about the fact that this people came from elsewhere and I assumed they sailed to the land. But they can came though land as well (hide spoiler)]

[Rachel]

I just finished part 1 last night as well!! Hooray 😁
Better get to a laptop to check the tags

[Gabi]

Oleksandr wrote: "Gabi wrote: "Oleksandr wrote: "re: On the timeline
[spoilers removed]"

[spoilers removed]"

Reading part II now (view spoiler)[ I thought, Albion sounds more plausible, since the monk spoke of coming via boat from an island which made me think of Eire and GB (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Just found what fubun means: (view spoiler)[it's Irish and means 'shame' - so this would be a good indication for the setting (hide spoiler)]

[Rachel]

Gabi wrote: "Just found what fubun means: [spoilers removed]"

Ah! Yes I had thought re foxcap: (view spoiler)[ every time she said crow I kept hearing whatsherface from game of thrones, Ygrit? She also has the red hair thing. Also I pictured a bit of pieces from that kids movie Brave haha (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

Gabi wrote: "Just found what fubun means: [spoilers removed]"

Thanks! Good to know.

[Gabi]

Part II - another beauty! This story sucks me in like a vacuum. I couldn't even explain why, but I'm completely enchanted - so far.

(view spoiler)[ This stirred another nostalgic memory for me. Before the kids we used to spend our summers in the Scottish Highlands. There is a bird's island, Handa, where only few tourists could go over in a small boat. So there was nothing but birds, birds, birds. All of those birds Dar Oakley encounters and describes were there. I saw and heard it all so lively, just wonderful.
And the legend of the sea faring Irish monk Brendan was the first reference I recognized here. Like Oleksandr said, I'm sure there are several legends Crowley is drawing upon, yet so far my google search for crows and legends didn't bring up anything (hide spoiler)]

[Silvana]

I only made it to 47% (chapter 2 of part 2) and like Gabi I am completely enchanted.

Really enjoyed (view spoiler)[Dar Oakley's second journey to the realm of the dead. I thought he was gonna betray the Brother like it was prophesied but glad that did not happen and he showed some agency. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Silvana wrote: "I only made it to 47% (chapter 2 of part 2) and like Gabi I am completely enchanted.

Really enjoyed [spoilers removed]"

Oh yes, that was a wonderful scene.


I'm finished, and I'm a bit grumpy that I can't give it 5 stars, because (view spoiler)[the two last chapters in part III felt completeley disconnected for me. The first half of the book is perfect, part IV thankfully is wonderful again - but this whole business with Anna Kuhn and her son felt like Crowley wanted to squeeze something he's read in there. It suddenly feels more like a distant narration instead of a Dar Oakley POV. There is nothing of the magic that made the other parts of the book so special for me.
So I'm a bit grumpy now … couldn't he have left those two out?
Yet, apart from that this book was a terrificly beautiful experience. (hide spoiler)]

[Silvana]

Argh, still at 51% and can't open the spoiler tag yet.

Random note:
I just realized that the author's name has 'Crow' in it.

[Rachel]

Ha! Maybe that’s why he’s obsessed with crows??

[Silvana]

Could be. Now I am thinking that Michael J Fox should write a book about fox. And Bear Grylls too.

Back to Ka, a review mentioned that "ka" isn't just a variant spelling of "caw," but also the ancient Egyptian word for the spiritual self that survives the decay of the body. That kind of explains the whole underworld stuff?! Thoughts?

[Rachel]

I made it to 47% today ...

[Rachel]

So..are all crows ‘middle spirits’ then?

[Silvana]

I think that applies to all animals. Why call it 'middle' though? Any basic ones? The advanced ones would be people - who can sin - I guess.

Or maybe middle because crows or the likes of Dar Oakley are more intelligent/ had a higher level of consciousness?

[Rachel]

Oh it was some the Brother was saying to Dar Oakley in part two 😊

[Gabi]

When he said middle spirit I thought it had to do with his status in the realms. He's neither completely in the world of the living, nor in the one of the dead, but in the middle.

@Silvana, ah, that is good with the Egyptian Ka. It's not within the cultures the story takes place, but the meaning is too good to not play a role in the name giving.

Question for the first two chapters of part III: (view spoiler)[ Does anybody know to whom he is referring with the ugly small people? (hide spoiler)]

[Oleksandr]

Gabi wrote: ".Question for the first two chapters of part III:"

(view spoiler)[While most likely they are from local North American folklore, cannot they be Norse zwergs (dwarfs)? Hairy may mean beards, and they love gold... (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Oleksandr wrote: "Gabi wrote: ".Question for the first two chapters of part III:"

[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ The native American culture was what made me wonder. I have little to nonexistent knowledge of North American myths. For European this would make sense. (hide spoiler)]

[Oleksandr]

Gabi wrote: "Oleksandr wrote: "Gabi wrote: ".Question for the first two chapters of part III:""

(view spoiler)[This still makes sense for North America if we assume that dwarf myth came with that Saint Brendan expedition from the previous part or with Leif Erikson and vikings. Leaving fae can be a nod to American Gods (hide spoiler)]

[Silvana]

Small ugly people (view spoiler)[I thought they were dwarves or faes.

They did come by land from Europe, no? Eurasia and America used to be one mega continent so maybe they took that route. (hide spoiler)]

Finally found a myth I could recognize: (view spoiler)[Orpheus!

Was the snowy owl Death himself? (hide spoiler)]

Starting chapter 3 of part III. This is another interesting one. These parts and chapters are so different with one another!

History buffs will love this book.

[Oleksandr]

Silvana wrote: "Small ugly people ."

(view spoiler)[They did come by land from Europe, no? Eurasia and America used to be one mega continent so maybe they took that route

That land route was in Ice age, and cultures, which moved weren't European not only in the modern sense, the settlers were even genetically closer to Asians than Caucasians. More importantly, as Dar Oakley says 'dead is dead', it seems that only what current group/person believes about 'the land of dead' and about magic is true - this is my chief argument against dwarfs (hide spoiler)]

[Oleksandr]

Ok, a bit of research gives the following results (thanks to o mighty internet!): The Crow Nation (the name signifies I think) had legends about Nirumbee - Little People of the Pryor Mountains
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_...

[Gabi]

Oleksandr wrote: "Ok, a bit of research gives the following results (thanks to o mighty internet!): The Crow Nation (the name signifies I think) had legends about Nirumbee - Little People of the Pryor Mountains
http..."

Terrific, Oleksandr! Thanks so much for sharing the link.

[Gabi]

@Silvana: regarding the owl, I read it as you are suggesting in your spoiler.

[Silvana]

Nice link, Oleksandr! Another myth reference solved.