Change the World: The Choice discussion

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The Benefits of Legalising Marijuana

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message 1: by Lewis (new)

Lewis (lewclark) | 32 comments Mod
'Hungry, happy, high people everywhere; that'd be a nice world wouldn't it?' -Bill Hicks.

1.Marijuana is the biggest cash crop in the world, has killed no-one, ever! Has benefits to mankind, why not legalise it?
2.Alcohol kills more people than all the other drugs put together and it's legal, why?
3.Should we reorganise the classifications of some other drugs?


message 2: by David (new)

David (primemover) I would never do recreational drugs, though I can see supporting legalizing it with a huge sin tax. This would stop terrorist organizations from making money off of it, it would stop drug gang violence, and the atrocities of drug running. This system is obviously not perfect, but I can see middle ground that many conservatives aren't even willing to look at, much less vote for, actually being much better than the far right and the far lefts opinions.


message 3: by Lewis (new)

Lewis (lewclark) | 32 comments Mod
Talking of alcohol being a drug and marijuana being a drug of a different a worse category is simply to do with conditioning. Alcohol is a lot worse for you, it has no benfits to the mind or diseases etc. Marijuana has never ever killed anyone where as alcohol kills more people than all the other drugs put together. If you are an adult in this world your choice to consume marijuana is a personal one that should not be interfered with. There are benefits to it if taken at the right age. Legalise and regulate it, the reason it is causing schizophrenia is because its becoming more potent; this is simply to do with the fact that it is having to be grown illegally in unnatural conditions. I am not a recreational drug user but if i was i would see no crime in it. When was the last time you saw someone on pot being aggressive and violent? It's the biggest cash crop in the world and legalising it would get us out of this pointless recession make no mistake.
lew xx


message 4: by David (new)

David (primemover) Marijuana kills people, but only the users. You don't get high on marijuana and run people over. Alchohol on the other hand...


message 5: by Lewis (new)

Lewis (lewclark) | 32 comments Mod
When? When has marijuana ever killed anyone? Name me one case! I'm not chastising any of them or endorsing any of them. I am an adult and i can make my own decisions, legalise them both and allow the free choice to indulge
lew x


♥Eliza Marie♥ Goco (elizamariegoco) | 1 comments You guys have alot of stuff to say..lolz,,that's cool..


message 7: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) "But new problems would arise. You would be exchanging one set of problems and crimes for another. That's just the way it is. Don't ask me to tell you specifically what because I can't really say. But I have no doubt that there would be negative consequences to legalizing them."

The difference being, one set would actually be worth fighting for.


message 8: by Lining (new)

Lining (fleshpetal) My friend's mom, who's pediatrician, says that it messes up your brain.


message 9: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) "2244418 My friend's mom, who's pediatrician, says that it messes up your brain. "

The point is, alcohol and cigarettes do even MORE damage. Weed is the lesser of two evils, so to speak.


message 10: by Graehstone (new)

Graehstone I am a disabled Vet suffering from Scoliosis, Scheuermans disease (a form of hunchbackism), degenerative disc disease, chronic pain, killer migraines and other minor illness’ due to all of those.
I have a cortical stimulator implanted into my left buttock and the leads attached to my spine … so I have to plug myself into the wall every now and then to charge my batteries (hey being a cyborg isn’t all it’s cracked up to be you know) and to top all of that off I seem to be allergic to pretty much all forms of narcotics … tried ‘em all, you name it, they shoved it down my gullet.
If there was an evil side effect to be had, I had ‘em.
All except one that is.
I have been a medicinal cannabis patient here in the glorious state of California for five years and a supporter of ASA (Americans for Safe Access) as well as smaller local groups.
I have made it one of the priorities in my life, simply because my life and continued freedom depend on it, to educate myself on said subject.
I would love to, and hope someone takes me up on it, discuss/debate any and all points on the subject matter.
There are way too many misconceptions out there with nothing to back them up, not one thing other than “recent studies” … etc ….
I’ve found some of those recent studies and took the time to see who funded them and why they would come to the conclusions that they did … lo and behold 90% of the time it’s either big pharma or the gov’t (who is in the pocket of big pharma) that is the originator of those studies.
Well, here are some of “ours” … please take the three seconds it takes to read Granny Storm Crows reason for her list.
http://forum.grasscity.com/medical-ma...
Then we’ll talk


message 11: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) :(


message 12: by Graehstone (new)

Graehstone How is it that the United States of America has only 5% of the worlds population but holds 25% of the worlds inmates?
Are we really all that criminally inclined or could it be something else?
Hmmm, like an industry perhaps?
http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm <<< Not to mention the money that's being spent.
It boggles the mind.
Prohibition didn't work for that scourge alcohol and it is not working now.


message 13: by [deleted user] (last edited Oct 01, 2009 05:43AM) (new)

From personal experience, Cannabis should NOT be legalised. It does nothing but cloud the mind and make you dependant on it. You become withdrawn, paranoid and after years of taking it memory is affected. I was never hospitalised, but believe that if I continued using the drug, would have eventually. Family members have also given up the drug due to similar reasons. However, for medical purposes it could be used, but just like everything else it would probably be abused. Saying that, making something illegal usually adds stigma to it and makes it somewhat more fashionable, if it were legalised, would people be not so bothered about it? I'm sure Amsterdam doesn't suffer with a country full of cannabis smokers? And I don't believe for one moment the Government would legalise it for the peoples benefit, they would only do it to gain funds for their coffers.

May I just add that if you had two glasses of wine and two cigs it would not cloud your mind. BUT if you did smoke two joints your mind would be clouded.


message 14: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) "Nophoto-u-25x33 From personal experience, Cannabis should NOT be legalised. It does nothing but cloud the mind and make you dependant on it. You become withdrawn, paranoid and after years of taking it memory is affected. I was never hospitalised, but believe that if I continued using the drug, would have eventually. Family members have also given up the drug due to similar reasons. However, for medical purposes it could be used, but just like everything else it would probably be abused. "

Just because your body could handle it, doesn't mean it should be illegal for everyone, though.

And yes, legal is less exciting. After and initial boom, it would taper off.

"May I just add that if you had two glasses of wine and two cigs it would not cloud your mind. BUT if you did smoke two joints your mind would be clouded."

But who would honestly stop at two? Any alcohol cloud your mind, and cigarettes are much much more toxic.


message 15: by [deleted user] (new)

Lauren wrote: ""Nophoto-u-25x33 From personal experience, Cannabis should NOT be legalised. It does nothing but cloud the mind and make you dependant on it. You become withdrawn, paranoid and after years of takin..."

''Just because your body could handle it, doesn't mean it should be illegal for everyone, though''

I agree, it does not affect everyone the same, but from reports most people do have similar problems..paranoia and memory loss.

''But who would honestly stop at two? Any alcohol cloud your mind, and cigarettes are much much more toxic''

I agree again, a lot of people wouldn't!! But I could! When it comes to alcohol, drinking too much will make you drunk, but cigs are more toxic? Cannabis it it's pure form, maybe isn’t as toxic. But by the time the dealers on the streets have finished with there ounces, it's mixed with all sorts......and Pharma!! Please, they would add bleach! and god knows what else. It would be hard to access it in pure form, if legalised could we then grow it ourselves? Probably not, they wouldn't want that, because how would they make there money then? Hey and before you know it, we would be buying Organic Cannabis or economy cannabis!
All just personal comments......I ultimately believe we should be free to make our own minds and that the government should not have the right to dictate what we can and cannot do.





message 16: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) "annabis it it's pure form, maybe isn’t as toxic. But by the time the dealers on the streets have finished with there ounces, it's mixed with all sorts......and Pharma!! Please, they would add bleach! and god knows what else. It would be hard to access it in pure form, if legalised could we then grow it ourselves? Probably not, they wouldn't want that, because how would they make there money then? Hey and before you know it, we would be buying Organic Cannabis or economy cannabis! "

That's making a lot of assumptions. If it didn't come from dealers on the street, if it came legally, it would have to be FDA approved, and you can't assume they would add bleach or anything, without proof.


message 17: by [deleted user] (new)

''Without proof'' being the imperative two words. They put chemicals in our babies milk, in the food we eat, it all the medicines we take, in all the vaccinations.....there is proof they add it to all these things..............why would cannabis be any exception?

Without proof being the imperative two words. Assumption. I would call it '' Good judgement''



message 18: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) Without proof being the imperative two words. Assumption. I would call it '' Good judgement'' "

It's not good judgment to assume the government tried to poison us without substantial proof.

"They put chemicals in our babies milk, in the food we eat, it all the medicines we take, in all the vaccinations.....there is proof they add it to all these things..............why would cannabis be any exception? "

There's no proof, unless you provide a link.


message 19: by [deleted user] (new)

Lauren wrote: "Without proof being the imperative two words. Assumption. I would call it '' Good judgement'' "

It's not good judgment to assume the government tried to poison us without substantial proof.

"The..."


My apologies, I'm new to this forum stuff and made the assumption that we all agreed chemicals are just a part of our daily lives now.....a few articles at bottom to prove so....I hope it helps.

Chemicals in breast feeding……

http://www.13.waisays.com/breastfeedi...

What chemicals are in antibiotics for mass production…….

http://www.enotes.com/how-products-en...

Chemicals in the new vaccination for Cervical cancer……

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/j...

I don't think I will go into what's put into food, I'm sure we are all fully aware that the FDA allow us to eat food with chemicals in it.

Cannabis wouldn't be an exception, it would just end up being intoxicated, just like everything else. So it would be no different to cigs .

The best thing I did was given up Cannabis. I hope it is only used for good causes and help illnesses, but if it’s put on the market I still don’t believe it would be kept in its purest form.





message 20: by Lewis (new)

Lewis (lewclark) | 32 comments Mod
What exactly is wrong with your mind being clouded anyway? If you want to do it in the comfort of your own head and house then that is absolutley fine. What right does anyone have to tell you what you can and cant do anyway? SO long as it doesnt affect others in a drastically and destructively bad way then do it. What soverignty are we allowed in this country if not over ourselves! None but ourselves can free our minds. Look at all of the people who want to advocate love and then look at the ones who bomb the crap out of everyone and keep them under control. Which ones are the ones smoking dope?

We've been lied to about marijuana and if the only bad thing that you can say about it is that is clouds your mind then shit i'm in on it because there's a lot of stuff that i wouldnt mind clouding out. x



message 21: by Lewis (new)

Lewis (lewclark) | 32 comments Mod
Also to talk about your point on bleach and extra additives, thats totally bollocks if you'll pardon my english. If legalised the government would regulate and tax it for commercial use, which, though making it more expensive, would make it safer and cleaner, removing things like skunk and the more potent forms of the drug which cause paranoia etc.
By making it legal we can also help other poorer countries whose GDP is low and unchanging, there economies would boom from the massive export business to the UK and other Western nations. We could bring them up with us and at the same time remove ourselves from this recession. More jobs would be created and the novelty or marijuana would probably decrease not increase as, believe it or not, people, and especially CHAVs, only do things because they're illegal!




message 22: by Lewis (new)

Lewis (lewclark) | 32 comments Mod
Why would they need to put chemicals in MArijuana? If grown and sourced naturally the quantiies could be procured adequatley and sufficiently. You are making rather large judgment calls, not everything is reductive, this is not a good enough reason not to legalise it. In fact it makes no sense as a reason not to. Can you imagine the government saying:
'Were not going to legalise Cannabis because our companies will put chemicals in it'
Don't really think thats a big sell for democracy or commerce some how.
Im not saying they dont do it to some things, i just find it hard to believe they would need to with Cannabis. x


message 23: by David (new)

David (primemover) I'm afraid that many companies WOULD put chemicals in it, to make it addictive. However, since it's a new thing, it would be just as easy for a small company to keep it clean and take over the market that way. Worse case scenario, we go back to making it in our basements. Just this time, legally.


message 24: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) Mukesh wrote: "I'm afraid that many companies WOULD put chemicals in it, to make it addictive. However, since it's a new thing, it would be just as easy for a small company to keep it clean and take over the mar..."

It's already addictive. What more would they even need to do?


message 25: by Graehstone (new)

Graehstone Define "Addictive" ... I have been a medicinal cannabis patient for many years and can easily tell you that it's not addictive in the least, not by any definition.
There are no "withdrawals" no "cold turkey demons" or any of that when you stop.
Please don't get me wrong, but I would dearly love to see the source of your information. The greatest thing that we can do is to spread the truth and not "hearsay" as too many lives have already been lost due to folks just simply not knowing the truth.
And this time I'd appreciate perhaps a longer response other than a frowny face ... please?




message 26: by Graehstone (new)

Graehstone And why would anyone want to put anything in it? If it's legal then you can grow your own ... right?
It's not rocket science folks.


message 27: by David (new)

David (primemover) True...


message 28: by Graehstone (last edited Oct 18, 2009 11:23AM) (new)

Graehstone Marijuana Proven Effective in Treating Cancer
USA -- Marijuana opponents in the federal government are up against the wall and the wall is crumbling. The feds have fought marijuana use for decades, disregarding its medicinal applications, in a senseless war against the herb.
The demonized killer weed is turning out to be anything but that. As myths about this ancient herb are dispelled, scientists are using it to treat everything from chemotherapy-induced nausea to different cancers.

In August, The British Journal of Cancer published the results of a study that found THC (the main active component in marijuana) is effective in fighting prostate cancer. Reportedly, pot attacks prostate cancer cell types that do not respond to the usual hormone treatments.

A recent study by a team of Spanish researchers discovered THC kills various brain cancer cells by a process known as autophagy. Michigan's new law regarding marijuana use went into effect in April. Patients, with doctor's prescriptions, get a state-issued ID Card (a lot like California's) which allows them to grow and use marijuana to treat pain and other symptoms of cancer and multiple sclerosis.

In October 2003, the University of California, San Francisco, released the results of a study that said pot was effective when used in combination with opiate pain medications. Dr. Donald Abrams, MD, UCSF professor of Clinical Medicine and chief of the Hematology-Oncology Division at SF General Hospital Medical Center, told the press, “Marijuana uses a different mechanism than opiates and could augment the pain relief of opiate analgesics.”

The Marijuana Policy Project recently reported on a study that suggests moderate amounts of marijuana use reduces risk of head and neck squamous cell carcinoma (HNSCC). This study suggests cannabinoids have potential anti-tumor properties.

A study released in July, “White matter in adolescents with history of marijuana use and binge drinking,” says marijuana use actually protects brain cells. The study involved adolescents with alcohol use disorders.

One group had just alcohol-drinking teens. The other group drank alcohol and used marijuana. The report said that binge drinkers who used marijuana retained more white matter than the other group. In other words, alcohol destroyed more brain cells when a person didn't use marijuana.

How many times have you heard someone say, “Pot destroys your brain cells”? If that's true, what about this study? Why do doctors use marijuana to fight brain cancer if it destroys brain cells? Remember the Spanish study?

In April of 2007, Harvard University researchers released the results of a study that concluded THC cuts tumor growth in common lung cancers and reduces the ability of the cancer to spread.

A study conducted by UCLA's medical school in June 2005 concluded smoking marijuana did not cause lung cancer. That impressive piece of news, along with the Harvard study, seems to have been ignored by most mass media outlets.

Fred Gardner, editor of the medical marijuana research journal, O'Shaughnessy's, recently wrote an article, “Smoking Marijuana Does Not Cause Cancer,” about this groundbreaking UCLA study that barely made headlines.

Gardner reported that an investigative team was contracted with the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) in 2002 “to conduct a large, population-based, case-controlled study that would prove definitively that heavy, long-term marijuana use increases the risk of lung and upper-airway cancers.”

Guess what? This study backfired! It turned out that increased marijuana use did not result in higher rates of lung and pharyngeal cancer. The study also concluded that tobacco smokers who also puffed on pot were at a slightly lower risk of getting lung cancer than those who didn't!

Perhaps the icing on the cake is the fact that UCLA Medical professor Donald Tashkin led the investigation. Tashkin has led government studies on marijuana since the 1970s and is well known for his belief that heavy marijuana use causes lung and upper-airway cancers. To his credit as a professional, he ended up disproving his own original hypothesis.

Despite the government's efforts to keep it illegal, it's apparent that marijuana does offer help in the battle to treat cancer. The facts about marijuana's medical potentials are finally causing cracks in the government's wall of lies built up over the years.

As It Stands, it's time to bring down that wall.

Dave Stancliff is a columnist for The Times-Standard. He is a former newspaper editor and publisher.

Source: Times-Standard (Eureka, CA)
Author: Dave Stancliff, For The Times-Standard
Published: October 18, 2009
Copyright: 2009 MediaNews Group, Inc.
Contact: editor@times-standard.com
Website: http://www.times-standard.com/
URL: http://drugsense.org/url/FgCLRLSV




message 29: by David (new)

David (primemover) Touche


message 30: by Graehstone (new)

Graehstone The Free online version of the book that everyone should read.

http://www.jackherer.com/chapters.html

I've had the immense pleasure of meeting Jack, sadly his health is failing and the last I heard he was in the hospital.
Too many people have suffered and died over the years due to ignorance and greed.
People really need to educate themselves and not take for gospel what they are told. There are always two sides to everything and each side has their own agenda.

The Truth will set you free.



message 31: by Graehstone (new)

Graehstone It's in German but you'll soon understand what's going on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPyfEz...
Overgrow the Governemnt! ;)


message 32: by Lewis (new)

Lewis (lewclark) | 32 comments Mod
Ok consensus time, you've read the discussion, you've seen the ideas what do you think guys? Yes, or No? Should it be legalised?
If you feel like it you could suggest a quick bullet point list of pros and cons.
Lets try and get this group up and going again, it's worth it, there's a hell of a lot to talk about, lets see if we can get people thinking, get people interested!
Thanks to all of you who have contributed, love you all xx


message 33: by Naomi (new)

Naomi (Goodreadscomwheeze) | 4 comments No. No. No. That's all I have to say. Absofreakinlutely not.
xxx
D.N.V


message 34: by Lewis (new)

Lewis (lewclark) | 32 comments Mod
Naomi wrote: "No. No. No. That's all I have to say. Absofreakinlutely not.
xxx
D.N.V"


Thanks Naomi for that ABSOLUTELY RETARDED comment there i think i speak for everyone here when i say how you have opened our eyes and shifted our opinions away from the distressing and opressivly controversial. If you have a reason or an argument (that isn't regurgiatated by systems that tell you how to think) then do please explain rather than editorialising without aim. x


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