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Policies & Practices > Audio TV Episodes Shelved as Audio Books

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message 1: by Shomeret (new)

Shomeret | 26 comments I've discovered that Audio Robin Hood TV episodes on CD produced by Big Finish Productions are being shelved as audio books. The Doctor Who audio TV episodes from Big Finish have Not A Book in the description. The Robin Hood episodes don't. Should the members who are shelving these as audiobooks be contacted before they are NABed? I'm a fairly new librarian, so I'm not sure how to proceed.


message 2: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 41686 comments Mod
Link to an example, please?


message 3: by Shomeret (new)

Shomeret | 26 comments rivka wrote: "Link to an example, please?"

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/64...

The description says that the binding is unknown. This is only one of the Robin Hood audio episodes. The narrators are actors from the current BBC Robin Hood series.

Big Finish does Stargate audio episodes as well and I found that these are being described as audiobooks.

I happen to know that they are audio episodes from TV series because I have purchased a few myself from Big Finish. I don't shelve them on Goodreads because it would be like shelving my TV series DVDs.

Shomeret



message 4: by Michael (new)

Michael | 6 comments I've been buying from Big Finish for about 10 years. All their output is original material and has never been broadcast on tv. The Doctor Who audios are full cast audio plays. The Robin Hood audios are one hour stories read by one of the actors. They are listed on the Big Finish website as audio books. The one you list is read by Jonas Armstrong and is meant to take place between series two and three. It is not a tv episode but a story designed to tie-in with the tv series.


message 5: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 41686 comments Mod
Michael wrote: "I've been buying from Big Finish for about 10 years. All their output is original material and has never been broadcast on tv."

Not really relevant. What is relevant is whether they are books (or audiobooks), and it sounds pretty clear that they are not.


message 6: by mlady_rebecca (new)

mlady_rebecca | 593 comments If they're not audiobooks, what are they considered? Radio plays?


message 7: by Random (new)

Random (rand0m1s) | 56 comments mlady_rebecca wrote: "If they're not audiobooks, what are they considered? Radio plays?"

I wouldn't call them radio plays unless you had multiple actors. This really sounds more like one of the usual spin off books TV series get which was only produced as an audio book.


message 8: by mlady_rebecca (new)

mlady_rebecca | 593 comments Oh, I was thinking of the ones they did to follow up on the 1970's version of "The Tomorrow People". They had multiple actors, some of the same actors from the tv show.

They are also from "Big Finish".


message 9: by Michael (last edited Aug 20, 2009 11:43AM) (new)

Michael | 6 comments
I wouldn't call them radio plays unless you had multiple actors. This really sounds more like one of the u..."


Exactly. Big Finish does produce full cast audio plays but the Robin Hood ones are just single narrator readings of a story never released as a book or a tv episode. Bit of a fan niche really.

Big Finish website Robin Hood details




message 10: by vicki_girl (last edited Aug 20, 2009 01:08PM) (new)

vicki_girl | 2765 comments Are we excluding radio plays now? If so, I know that A.C. Doyle has several radio play adaptations that I left as books. This was based on the last two comments in this thread

These are a little different though in that they are adaptations of actual books.

ETA, Here's an Example:

A Study in Scarlet


message 11: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 41686 comments Mod
vicki_girl wrote: "These are a little different though in that they are adaptations of actual books."

To me, that's not a small difference, it's a huge one -- and the key issue.


message 12: by Carolyn (new)

Carolyn (seeford) | 579 comments I agree with Rivka.
Whether they are actual TV episodes or just tie-ins, if they aren't published as a book, they just fall into a generic audio category, like podcasts, and shouldn't be listed as books on GR.


message 13: by Paula (new)

Paula (paulaan) | 7027 comments I am with rivka and Carolyn, if they have not been published as a book then they should not be listed


message 14: by Michael (new)

Michael | 6 comments We do actually have a Goodreads author who has written one of these things. Colin Harvey who wrote the Highlander tv tie-in Love and Hate. It is also produced by Big Finish and the same format as the Robin Hood audios.


message 15: by Shomeret (new)

Shomeret | 26 comments Obviously, I think they should all be NABed because they have never been published as books. Some of them have ratings or comments. What is going to be the policy about them?

Shomeret


message 16: by Random (new)

Random (rand0m1s) | 56 comments So something can't be a book unless its been printed on dead trees?


message 17: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 41686 comments Mod
Nope. Ebooks count just fine.

But actual printed and published text, yes.


message 18: by Otis, Chief Architect (new)

Otis Chandler | 315 comments Mod
Rivka is probably right that it's not a book, and not an ebook. Sounds like it's not an audio-book either? Generally I agree that podcasts, and general audio pieces, etc shouldn't be on here.

It pains me though to not support items people clearly want to catalog. We are considering adding a "media type" flag to works, that could be used to distinguish things that aren't books - like audio cd's, comics, magazines, etc. If we did this, would there be issues leaving the items as is without the NAB author?


message 19: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 41686 comments Mod
The main issue would be the almost immediate flood of movies, music CDs, etc. You would know better than the rest of us whether the database can handle it!


message 20: by Otis, Chief Architect (new)

Otis Chandler | 315 comments Mod
Oh I don't think we'd want to do movies or music. We should stick to things that are read (printed) or read to you (audio).

It's becoming clear, as the line has been hard to draw, that the format of a "book" is hard to define. A book, by definition, is a printed, bound object. So an ebook is thus not a book - but we allow it, because we consume it in the same way, and it's format of having chapters, pages, and lots of text, is the same. An audio book is also not a book - but it also has chapters, and has lots of text that is spoken orally. So by this reasoning, the thing we are calling a book (and we probably need a better word for it) is simply a long-form of media, usually with lots of text (but not always - think of picture books) - that is packaged professionally to be sold and consumed. This is the thinking that leads me to think comics, magazines, and perhaps the audio cd discussed belong here. But I am first to admit we don't support them yet.

The question is if these things have consistent authors that will allow for consistent combining. Is Rebecca Levene really the author of the work linked? Can consistent authors be found for comics, magazines, etc? You amazing librarians already face enough challenges combining bound books - what new challenges will we face if we try to support new media types?


message 21: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Vegan (lisavegan) | 2409 comments Oh, I'm not wild about the idea, unless non-book media items could be partitioned separate from the books' database somehow.

There's so many more of these items than there are of books. I can't imagine the flood. Also, certain members will always want to add more & more & more items. I honestly think the books would get lost in the sea of data.

But, I don't know what you can do re database capacity, etc. I do know that it will be a lot more work for librarians. I suspect needing to separate (non-books incorrectly combined with books) would skyrocket.


message 22: by mlady_rebecca (new)

mlady_rebecca | 593 comments I still don't understand why these aren't considered simple audio books. There are tv tie-ins in paperback format; why can't there be tv tie-ins that are only available as an audio book?

As for Otis's question, I think adding magazines and comics alone would flood the system.


message 23: by Cait (new)

Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments mlady_rebecca wrote: "I still don't understand why these aren't considered simple audio books. There are tv tie-ins in paperback format; why can't there be tv tie-ins that are only available as an audio book?"

I think the problem is that these things-of-type-to-be-determined are inheriting history from two sides: one on hand, to a lot of people they seem just like tie-in novels spoken aloud, but on the other hand, to others they seem just like radio plays -- which are generally considered "tv lite" instead of "loud book".

(I go back and forth on the book/nonbook question myself, so I'm hoping that someone here will say something to push me one way or the other!)

"As for Otis's question, I think adding magazines and comics alone would flood the system."

Actually, there's been quiet permission for single comic book issues for a while now, and I haven't seen that many of them....


message 24: by Michael (new)

Michael | 6 comments I don't either. Most of the author's who submit stories for these things also write paperback tie-ins. At submission stage I doubt there is much distinction between the two forms other than length.
I have a partially sighted friend who actually prefers these audios over genuine audio books as the readings are better performed with better emphasis. Sometimes audio books are read by the author whose often droning voice really irritates her.


message 25: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Vegan (lisavegan) | 2409 comments Actually, there's been quiet permission for single comic book issues for a while now, and I haven't seen that many of them....

Really?!

Of course, if the permission was not so quiet/was official, the number in the database would be astronomical.


message 26: by Cait (new)

Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments Lisa wrote: "Really?!"

Yeah, it was Otis in a thread here in the Librarians' group saying it would be fine for librarians to leave them if a user has shelved them. :) I can't find the comment -- it looks like search is broken again? -- but it was never announced or anything....


message 27: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Vegan (lisavegan) | 2409 comments Cait, Ok, I believe you. I haven't deleted any, at least not for ages, so that's good.


message 28: by Writerlibrarian (new)

Writerlibrarian | 2 comments Hi, I never posted but since I'm a librarian in real life and has faced this problem for my public library I can state what we do.

The audiobooks format/support have been not a problem but certainly a puzzle since day one. We used to have books with audiotapes, then books then audiobooks with only tapes then they went back to books with cd and then only cd, we have now mp3 cds (no books), mp3 available for download directly from the catalogue, like librivox offers and some new gadget now that is like a mp3 player/audiobook all in one.

None of these were treated, catalogue as books but as multimedia, always differents but books in essence. For the longest time these format only offered fiction or non fiction already published on dead tree. Now... well we have fiction and non fiction published in audio format and not on dead tree. They are still books just not the dead tree kind. They are not the same as dead tree books and are not combine with them in our catalogue. We had a $h[audiobook MP3:] for example after the title and our users know it's not a dead tree version.

Hope this helps


message 29: by Carolyn (new)

Carolyn (seeford) | 579 comments While we are spinning off on tangents, please keep in mind that the OP was speaking about whether or not to NAB audio versions of TV shows.

Regardless of the 'dead tree' issue, would you consider TV shows books? Even a book version of a TV episode is written very differently than the script for the same episode (and would be thus read very differently.)

Unless/untill GR handles multimedia items, like podcasts or music CDs, I don't believe that audio versions of TV shows or movies, or whatever, should be considered as books. Because while there may be a fine line in this decision, there is virtually no line at all between them and podcasts of a radio show shrink, or an episode of Oprah - territory I think we can all agree we don't want to get into.


message 30: by Cait (new)

Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments I don't think that these are audio versions of televised episodes, though. The example given, Robin Hood: Witchfinders, certainly doesn't appear on the list of Robin Hood episodes.


message 31: by Writerlibrarian (last edited Aug 21, 2009 08:46AM) (new)

Writerlibrarian | 2 comments I agree that the line is very thin between format.

To go back to the OP question. One example are the Stargate Atlantis audiobooks that if published on paper would be considered tie-in books. They are not published on paper but in audio format are they less tie in for that.

Example : http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23... Read by Paul McGillion. It's not a TV episode it's written by Sally Malcolm who wrote/adapted the first tie-in Rising for Stargate Atlantis.

In my library that's an audiobook. Here? I would probably go yes but YMMV


message 32: by Random (new)

Random (rand0m1s) | 56 comments Carolyn wrote: "While we are spinning off on tangents, please keep in mind that the OP was speaking about whether or not to NAB audio versions of TV shows."

Its not the audio of a TV show, what we're talking about is a spinoff book of a TV show that was only produced as an audio book. Its like one of the hundreds of the Star Trek books you see in the stores, they just never bothered to send it to the printer.




message 33: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 41686 comments Mod
Random wrote: "they just never bothered to send it to the printer"

No, they never put it in a publishable written form.


message 34: by Codex (new)

Codex | 3401 comments Otis wrote: "Oh I don't think we'd want to do movies or music. We should stick to things that are read (printed) or read to you (audio).

It's becoming clear, as the line has been hard to draw, that the forma..."


Please, please do not allow Goodreads to degenerate into an amorphous blob of “stuff” that tries to be all things to all men—it would tend to accelerate the law of diminishing returns. You’ve got something good going here: keep the line drawn clearly before gravitational collapse sets in.


message 35: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 41686 comments Mod
Codex wrote: "You’ve got something good going here: keep the line drawn clearly before gravitational collapse sets in."

Amen, amen!


message 36: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Vegan (lisavegan) | 2409 comments I agree!


message 37: by Otis, Chief Architect (new)

Otis Chandler | 315 comments Mod
Don't worry! We aim to please, and are quite happy with our focus on books. My only point was that some things are so bookish that excluding them feels a little wrong. Hard to draw the lines!


message 38: by Michael (last edited Aug 21, 2009 07:57PM) (new)

Michael | 6 comments Shame. I only just noticed that a couple of the Robin Hoods were written by Jonathan Clements


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