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The History of the Church: From Christ to Constantine
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History of the Church Eusebius > Christ in history and in the Old Testament

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Manuel Alfonseca | 1630 comments Mod
The first part of the book discusses the historical Christ and introduces Eusebius's ideas about teophany in the Old Testament. You can put here your thoughts about this.


message 2: by Manuel (last edited Sep 01, 2018 07:40AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Manuel Alfonseca | 1630 comments Mod
In the August BOTM (by Remi Brague) we read that Muslims assert that their religion is the oldest one in the world, as it was Adam's religion.

I found it curious that Eusebius of Caesarea asserts exactly the same thing about Christianity. He says, more or less, this: You say that Christianity is a new religion, less than three centuries old, but that is not true, as our religion is the same as the Old Testament religion, and gets back to Adam himself.


Mariangel | 584 comments I noticed it and thought about what Brague said.


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John Seymour | 1968 comments Mod
Manuel wrote: "In the August BOTM (by Remi Brague) we read that Muslims assert that their religion is the oldest one in the world, as it was Adam's religion.

I found it curious that Eusebius of Caesarea asserts..."


Yes, I had the same thought.


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John Seymour | 1968 comments Mod
I have never heard before about the purported correspondence between Jesus and Abgar Uchama the Toparch in Edessa, or the subsequent events, events which the editor of the Penguin Classic calls "fabulous," by which I take him to mean, based in fable, rather than great. But Eusebius claims to have read the actual letters reproduced in the public archives of Edessa, copied and translated them. So I am not sure what the editor is claiming, that the letters were forgeries, or that Eusebius is making this up out of whole cloth.

I am not ready to brand Eusebius a liar, and I cannot conceive of what it would benefit a royal household to forge a letter from Jesus in the 1st century A.D., or even the 3rd century A.D. Very cool.


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Manuel Alfonseca | 1630 comments Mod
John wrote: "I have never heard before about the purported correspondence between Jesus and Abgar Uchama the Toparch in Edessa, or the subsequent events, events which the editor of the Penguin Classic calls "fa..."

According to Wikipedia, king Abgar VIII of Edessa converted to Christianity around the year 200, and he or his successors could be interested in retrojecting the date of the conversion to the Apostolic age, i.e. to the time of king Agbar V.

Here are the Wikipedia articles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abgar_V
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abgar_VIII


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John Seymour | 1968 comments Mod
Manuel wrote: "John wrote: "I have never heard before about the purported correspondence between Jesus and Abgar Uchama the Toparch in Edessa, or the subsequent events, events which the editor of the Penguin Clas..."

Interesting. In the "talk" section for Abgar VIII there is a comment that asserts that the various Abgars are frequently mixed up and that the Abgar that converted was in the 1st century, not the third. Interesting.


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Jill A. | 719 comments At times Eusebius seems to think very highly of the Jews (they civilized/gentled the whole world, as if that could be done by laws and prophecies alone without the transformative power of resurrection life in Christ), at other times to hate them (The Jews "as usual" joined in persecuting Polycarp.)
He wants to call OT people "Christians," meaning good, moral people. How can one be a Christian without knowing or believing in Jesus Christ?


Randi Hicks | 23 comments Perhaps one can make an argument that some OT people believed in and looked forward to the coming of Christ and thus could be called Christians? Still I think it is a stretch.


Manuel Alfonseca | 1630 comments Mod
Randi wrote: "Perhaps one can make an argument that some OT people believed in and looked forward to the coming of Christ and thus could be called Christians? Still I think it is a stretch."

I agree. I think Eusebius simply meant that the OT religion is the same as ours, and in that sense they also were Christians, not because they believed in Christ incarnated, crucified and resurrected, but because they believed in His future coming, (not the second coming, but the first coming). This is why he writes this: [T]he very name Jesus and also the name Christ were honored by the ancient prophets beloved of God.


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Fonch | 1443 comments I agr..."

Manuel wrote: "John wrote: "I have never heard before about the purported correspondence between Jesus and Abgar Uchama the Toparch in Edessa, or the subsequent events, events which the editor of the Penguin Clas..."

Although i have not read the book i support to you speaking about historical questions. The carácter Agbar VIII it is not unknown to me. I Heard to speak about him in the class of Theory of History, with the Professor Enrique Gavilan Domínguez, he is mentioned in a novel of the writer Julia Navarra. I agree with Alfonseca and it is posible that the letter was apocryphal, perhaps to promote this kindom, curiously the first state, who converts to the christianity it would have been Armenia.

Manuel wrote: "Randi wrote: "Perhaps one can make an argument that some OT people believed in and looked forward to the coming of Christ and thus could be called Christians? Still I think it is a stretch."

It is a very interesting topic about the second coming until Saintv Agustin the common belief thought that Christ Will return inmediatly, but Saint Agustin says that his coming would not be inmediate.



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