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The Quiet Gentleman September 2018 Spoilers Thread
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Going into this book, the main thing I remember about the romance is that Drusilla seems to be the only person who irritates Gervase - a bit of a hint that she gets under his skin in a way which his far, far more annoying family never really do! She hides her devotion well, but he just is irked that she sees right through him. He is even a bit snappish at her at times.
that's a good point, Critterbee, I am going to think about that. I am most interested in the romance, but I find I have a very different view of the mystery since reading the "villain" thread in this group. I realized I am not as horrified by Theo as I should be, and instead let myself be swept up in how he seems. such a stalwart, honest, family member - so devoted to the estate and his cousin. Lucky for him his cousin is such a Gentleman, Quiet or otherwise.
right after arriving, the new St. Erth states he will be gone in a week - do you agree he changes his mind after meeting Marianne? I am fascinated by how subtle the real romance is, as at the Stanyon Ball he is surprised (and delighted) by how well Miss Morville dances, but he only asked her because she was right there when Marianne turned him down and courtesy demanded he ask her next. but it's right around there when everyone (except Martin and The Dowager) realize Marianne and Lord Ulverston "have an understanding". also, I feel like Drusilla (I'm tired of being more formal) is not very well described and neither is The Dowager, really, IS she large? I picture her as massive but all we know for sure is she has a turban and a roman nose. We know Drusilla is short and has a "plump bosom" and she describes herself to Marianne as not very pretty (brown skin and figure "not good") and her hair is mouse colored. It doesn't seem very specific! what am I missing?
Drusilla is very aware that she's not in Marianne's league. She's not ethereal and fragile- looking, and she doesn't try to be what she's not. The onlyother clue to her actual appearance is that she looks good in dusty pink, which goes with her brown complexion. That gives me a pleasant picture in my mind!I think that although Gervase is The Quiet Gentleman, Drusilla qualifies as The Quiet Lady. There's a lot to discover under that calm exterior.
Jackie wrote: "right after arriving, the new St. Erth states he will be gone in a week - do you agree he changes his mind after meeting Marianne? I am fascinated by how subtle the real romance is, as at the Stany..."I thought the 'shall not stay at Stanyon very long' was a light response to Theo's dire warnings about how much Martin and the Countess disliked him, rather than a plan. He plans to go to London in the Season (which is a couple of months away, I think).
As for the Countess (since Gervase is unmarried, she isn't really the Dowager ...) it struck me that she is likely to be not much more than 50! Martin is only 24, after all. I see her as solid, with an imposing bosom, but not fat. But the joy of Heyer is that we can build our own impressions round a fairly standard description.
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The Quiet Lady, indeed. She seems reserved, especially when trying to placate everyone, and doesn't allow herself to indulge in imagining a future with Gervase until he declares himself.
I adore Dru's parents. They are a crackup. And explain totally why she is the way she is.
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At the beginnings, I had had some doubts about Drusilla. I liked her as a character but I couldn't imagine her as a heroine. I think such calm, sensible characters are rather rare in the genre and as the main heroine, I can't even remember another one example/book/such heroine. But when I am nearing the end of the story I am all hers, I am on her team. I am not sure how and when she has won me but she did. And I think that speaks a lot about Heyer's genius.
❇Critterbee wrote: "...Going into this book, the main thing I remember about the romance is that Drusilla seems to be the only person who irritates Gervase - a bit of a hint that she gets under his skin in a way which his far, far more annoying family never really do!”I have only read this 2x’s. Second time with this group a while ago. I remember when I read this the first occasion, I was rather “lukewarm” about the book.
The second reading, I noticed GH working into the text the gradual tide of Gervase feeling growing for Drusilla. I really liked that she did that.
Now your comment that Drusilla irritates Gervase, I’m wondering if she irritated him bec he was having a glimmer of attraction for him?
Or maybe she irritated Gervase where his “family” could not bec he had no history with her. His “family” couldn’t irritate him bec he did not love them (with good reason!).
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She was 'getting to him.'
I think what makes Drusilla so endearing is her realness. She acts according to her personality and her sense of propriety both. She's not a simmering mass of repressions, holding her tongue in spite of her inclinations; she's sensible and a bit self-effacing and just what a true friend ought to be, without an ounce of deceit or malice in her.
Karlyne wrote: "Drusilla is very aware that she's not in Marianne's league. She's not ethereal and fragile- looking, and she doesn't try to be what she's not. The onlyother clue to her actual appearance is that sh..."Quiet charm, dry sense of humor, practical turn of mind but not boring, smart but not bookish, knows how to handle self-centered, windbag old ladies....
❇Critterbee wrote: "I loved her composure and unflappability. So restrained, but I feel like she has great depth of feeling, and will love Gervase strongly."Yes! Well said.
Karlyne wrote: "I think what makes Drusilla so endearing is her realness. She acts according to her personality and her sense of propriety both. She's not a simmering mass of repressions, holding her tongue in spi..."Oh, so true - I like her very much!
I was struggling with what to call people when I posted so I think I saw her referred to as the Dowager in the book? have to go back and look.As for the Countess (since Gervase is unmarried, she isn't really the Dowager ...)
Jackie wrote: "I was struggling with what to call people when I posted so I think I saw her referred to as the Dowager in the book? have to go back and look.As for the Countess (since Gervase is unmarried, she..."
Yes, she is the Dowager, since she was married to the previous, deceased Earl.
Susan in NC wrote: "Jackie wrote: "I was struggling with what to call people when I posted so I think I saw her referred to as the Dowager in the book? have to go back and look.As for the Countess (since Gervase is..."
My error - I was confused by the fact that she would not be addressed as Dowager, since Gervase was unmarried. But she is a Dowager from the point where her husband died. Thank you.
❇Critterbee wrote: "I think Drusilla irritated him because she had made a real connection with him, and her understanding of the situation proved to be equal to his own. He admired her, and also he was disarmed and af..."I really like this - and it's great you caught it, it's very subtle. Also, he at first dismissed her because she was "dull" - didn't flirt as he expected a single woman to do. But then she grew on him with her good sense (but also her ability to dance!)
they both are mature adults, as a contrast to Martin and Marianne, and they both deal with the family situation (Lady St Erth!) with tact but also without letting her run the show. what a great couple.
I am in the last part of the book and I am not enjoying it as much because it is more about the "mystery" than the romance. Gervase has been shot and Drusilla is, of course, an excellent nurse. a lot of Heyer's book have someone that is sick or injured and needing care, don't they?
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It is part of the redemption of Lady St Erth's character that Drusilla does not dislike her - she finds her habits and foibles irritating, but not unpleasant. Just as Martin can't be all that bad, because Barney Warboys gets away with telling him the truth. In Heyer, you know people's worth by their friends.
Rosina wrote: "In Heyer, you know people's worth by their friends."What an excellent observation! I agree!
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This is why I love our group reads - other people notice things you haven't & it adds to your enjoyment of the book.
I love Barney - I added this quote to the GR data base last time I read it;
Mr Warboys, without putting himself to the trouble of deciding which of the more ferocious animals his friend resembled, stated the matter in simple, and courageously frank terms. "Y"know, old fellow," he once told Martin,"if you had a tail, damme if you wouldn't lash it!”
Rosina wrote: "It is part of the redemption of Lady St Erth's character that Drusilla does not dislike her - she finds her habits and foibles irritating, but not unpleasant. Just as Martin can't be all that bad, ..."Keen observation!
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❇Critterbee wrote: "That scene when Gervase was attempting to escape quietly by the side door, ran into Drusilla and she could not hide how she was worried about him, and he told her that he would keep no secrets from..."yes, this scene is wonderful.
Rosina wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Jackie wrote: "I was struggling with what to call people when I posted so I think I saw her referred to as the Dowager in the book? have to go back and look.As for the Counte..."
You’re welcome, I was thinking the same thing after reading your comment, but then I was reading the book and a character referred to her as the Dowager, and it hit me- Gervase isn’t married, but has become the earl upon his father’s death - which is what made her a Dowager!
Rosina wrote: "It is part of the redemption of Lady St Erth's character that Drusilla does not dislike her - she finds her habits and foibles irritating, but not unpleasant. Just as Martin can't be all that bad, ..."Great point, I agree! About the friends revealing one’s character in Heyer’s books.
Carol ꧁꧂ wrote: "Rosina wrote: "It is part of the redemption of Lady St Erth's character that Drusilla does not dislike her - she finds her habits and foibles irritating, but not unpleasant. Just as Martin can't be..."Haha, that is a great line!
Jackie wrote: "❇Critterbee wrote: "I think Drusilla irritated him because she had made a real connection with him, and her understanding of the situation proved to be equal to his own. He admired her, and also he..."I must agree, one of my favorite parts reading this time around is (are) any scenes with Miss Morville. Her mastery in managing Lady St. Erth is a joy to behold!
Rosina wrote: "It is part of the redemption of Lady St Erth's character that Drusilla does not dislike her - she finds her habits and foibles irritating, but not unpleasant. Just as Martin can't be all that bad, ..."Heyer goes beyond the old adage "A man is known by the company he keeps" by showing us not just how bad company brings a person down, but how a good friend shows the world that there's more here than meets the eye. So, if a man has no friends, that might be a sign saying "Run. Run fast."
Carol ꧁꧂ wrote: "Mr Warboys, without putting himself to the trouble of deciding which of the more ferocious animals his friend resembled, stated the matter in simple, and courageously frank terms. "Y"know, old fellow," he once told Martin,"if you had a tail, damme if you wouldn't lash it!” ..."Oh! I love that quote so much! Warboys is a delight--and yes, it's telling that Martin has such a good (and honest) friend. I was also impressed with St Erth's intuition that Martin will do a good job managing the estate. We get little snatches of conversation here and there that hint at Martin's deep understanding of the land--I think he'll settle down nicely.
I do wonder what Theo's fate will be. St Erth seems to think he'll end up wealthy and I could well believe it, but he might also end up dead or impoverished. If I've got the dates right on this book in only 15 years or so Jamaica will be embroiled in the horrific 'Baptist War'--a slave uprising (1831)--and in 1834 slavery was abolished throughout the British colonies, effectively destroying Jamaica's slave and sugar-based economy.
I should add that the Baptist War was mostly deadly for the slaves, not the owners.
I wonder how slavery will affect Theo's attitude, since he came so close to having his own liberty completely curtailed?
Huh. Only 11 whites died in the Baptist War vs. about 500 slaves. Well, maybe Theo dies of the Yellow Fever....I know I'm being bloodthirsty but somehow I can't be quite as tolerant of Theo as St Erth is!
Karlyne wrote: "I wonder how slavery will affect Theo's attitude, since he came so close to having his own liberty completely curtailed?"Sad to say, probably not at all. I imagine a man like Theo, in that place and time, would've thought his own right to freedom a completely different thing to the right of an African.
It's been a while, but I seem to recall that a lot of the abolitionist propaganda leaned heavily on the idea that 'We're all men, we're all brothers' to counter the idea that different races had different rights.
I agree, Nick. Not to mention the fact that he tried to kill one cousin and frame the other so one might doubt he has any moral scruples at all. Now Drisilla is another story! She's been raised with progressive values and obviously cares a great deal for the well-being of the servants. My guess is that she will be properly horrified when she learns more about the Jamaica estates. Her parents will no doubt be involved in the anti-slavery movement in Britain and will give her (and St Erth) an earful on the subject.
My idea of a happy ending is that Theo dies of the Yellow Jack, and St Erth, at Drusilla's insistence, emancipates his slaves and sells the Jamaica property just in time to avoid the end of the sugar boom.
Oh, dear, and I am one of the ones who actually was very sorry to see Theo as the villain- to the point where my rewrite has him as the hero! ; ) How's that for a challenge! More seriously, from a plotting perspective - when, if ever, did you all start to suspect him? And do you think he had murder in mind from the beginning, or did he feel driven to it later?
Elliot wrote: "Oh, dear, and I am one of the ones who actually was very sorry to see Theo as the villain- to the point where my rewrite has him as the hero! ; ) How's that for a challenge! More seriously, from a ..."I must admit that (as far as I can remember) on my first reading I didn't suspect Theo until after the shooting. I didn't suspect Martin either (too obviously being set up, and I believed his story), but working out that it was Theo took longer.
On the other hand, on re-reading, it's fairly obvious that he's setting up Martin as prime suspect from the moment Gervase arrives at Stanyon, and possibly before. I suppose that he hoped that Gervase would throw Martin out, for harbouring murderous tendencies, and that would work towards framing Martin later. On the other hand, he would have risked being even less aware of whether Martin had a cast iron alibi, as he almost had for the first attempt, if he'd stayed overnight at the pub because of bad weather.
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I know I'm being bloodthirsty but somehow I can't be quite as tolerant of Theo as St..."
Ha! My own thought/hope is that Theo would get some dreadful disease/be murdered himself. The soft handling of Theo (& making him Martin's problem!) is why I can't give this book 5⋆.
Part of the issue for me is something that GH had no control over. I first read this book when I was very young. So I liked Theo & his villainy came as a stunning shock. Same issue I had with. Warning spoiler for another GH novel here; (view spoiler)
I agree that I don't think Theo was particularly well drawn as a villain. He seems like such a nice, level-headed chap that it's hard to believe that he's really a killer, and such a brutal killer! Ropes, and kidnaps, and so on! And he himself says that he's living very well on his salary and free lodging so I didn't really understand the motive. It seemed like there were hints that he thought whatsherface - the beauty - might fall for him if everyone else were out the way. Frankly, I don't think if I was a doting papa that I'd let my daughter marry into a family that had a murderer.
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Also Marianne is a very young 18. Theo is around 35 & older than his years. Hard to believe the marriage could work.
Theo is such a problem! Even knowing that he dispassionately planned the murders of his two cousins, he seemed so fond of at least Gervase that it's hard to comprehend. What an actor!He had to have been suffering from a sense of ill-usage, probably from his very boyhood, but he was an intelligent man and had to have realized that if his uncle hadn't rescued him and brought him to Stanyon, he would have had nothing whatsoever. Had his ego swelled to the point that he simply believed that because of his intelligence and hard work, he simply and completely deserved to have it all?
Maybe a sense of entitlement, for whatever reason, really is a deadly sin...
Carol ꧁꧂ wrote: "Nick wrote: "I agree that I don't think Theo was particularly well drawn as a villain. He seems like such a nice, level-headed chap that it's hard to believe that he's really a killer, and such a b..."Well, if he'd been what he seemed instead of who he really was, they might have stood a chance! We don't know exactly how old Lucy was, but he was probably a contemporary of Gervase, which would have made him quite a bit older than Marianne, too. Their personalities, though, will suit.
Can you imagine if it had all worked out as Theo hoped and he did end up with Marianne? And what would have happened the first time someone flirted with Marianne? Quite a Gothick scenario, I'm thinking...
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Carol ꧁꧂ wrote: "I think Gervase & Lucy are both around 28, but happier personalities."Gervase is seven years Martin's senior, and Martin is six years younger than his cousin - so Theo is younger than Gervase. I have the impression that Martin is 24, but I'm not sure whether that is specifically stated.
Looking on Amazon, I found this totally un-Gervase like CD-cover - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Quiet-Gentle...And the seacoast is not really Stanyon country.
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