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Intersectional Feminism > Trendy feminism

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message 1: by Rina (new)

Rina | 1 comments Interesting question. I think this happens with a lot of social movements. Rather than criticize, I think it's helpful to take the improv tactic of "yes, and..." to help expand others (and our own) awareness. Even those of us that are shallow (in this or other areas) may not realize our limited viewpoint. Yes, what part we support is important, and there's more to learn about. It's not shallow, it's just gateway feminism.


message 2: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments There has been a lot of chatter on line about commercialisation also. Using feminist message to sell products directly such as merchandise or having feminist or feminist message to front a product.

This does get the message out there but it can dilute it too.

Also the celebrity attention if done well by the conscientious and self aware ala Emma it is in the world today essential and even unavoidable. But done badly can damage the message even the movement.

So begs the question what do we do can we regulate, should we. is feminism not about equal opportunity. does that not include how someone contributes.


message 3: by Rida (new)

Rida Imran  (ridaimran) | 22 comments Yes I see it has become trendy even in Pakistan (where I'm from) but I don't like the way it is used for marketing.

I do like what one comment mentioned it as gateway feminism where we can improve it by "yes and.." (sorry on phone can't reply to it)


message 4: by Pam (new)

Pam | 1080 comments Mod
Hmmm...

If I understand this correctly, we are upset that more people are proclaiming themselves feminists?

Or are we upset because finally companies are paying attention and giving us clothes that announce our pride, marketing campaigns that reflect our values, and items that help our cause?


message 5: by Pam (new)

Pam | 1080 comments Mod
Yes. Thank you. :)


message 6: by Susan (new)

Susan Edelman (beyourownbrandofsexy) | 45 comments At least if celebrities identify as feminists, it makes it acceptable to others. Not sure if people do/did identify as feminists otherwise. Too much baggage. Some still see feminism as negative. Some see it as man hating.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...


message 7: by [deleted user] (last edited Aug 11, 2018 01:30PM) (new)

Hello!
I do not think "to regulate" is good for several reasons. The first one being, you cannot regulate "trendy" but maybe what it is meant here is "dissociate" from movement or actions that are actually hypocritical, superficial and for which the main purposes are to get selfish benefits (money, power, fame etc...) by using a great cause as a tool to serve yourself first. Would you mind if I judge those people? :)

I have noticed (like many people) that every single time a cause, a movement or even an innovation starts to break through you will always seen parasites and opportunists (here I am talking about selffish opportunist not selfless opportunists) rise and they will start to use the new and fruitful resource, this is inevitable. However, you can openly or unofficially confront them and show their true face otherwise they will undermine what has been created... Sometime you have to be perceived as the "bad" human while you are actually one of those who are doing right and at large scale it exhausting I suppose.

You also have the possibility to use the greed of those people to help the causes but I am not a big fan of that strategy since you are using something which is by definition against your principles and values.

So to sum up my opinion, I believe that finding and confronting (cunningly) people who use feminism or other great causes for selfish purpose is important because they are a slow poison. Then hope for them to change and truly help :)

I am sorry if I am too direct and maybe I am wrong to think that way ;)

Edit: my apologies, I did not answer the question in clear way, embracing those movements and actions is tempted but it is dangerous and the risk it weakens your cause is too high. Of course I am not saying to say no to everything and everyone since each situation is different and need to br wisely considered but if your intuition is warning then be cautious I suppose.


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

Yep, they are like a disease or a parasite that seems to be very helpful at the beginning but in the end it will hurt or kill you ;) so better safe than sorry :)


message 9: by Felix (new)

Felix | 3 comments Rina wrote: "Interesting question. I think this happens with a lot of social movements. Rather than criticize, I think it's helpful to take the improv tactic of "yes, and..." to help expand others (and our own)..."

i second "gateway" feminism! not trendy. trendy feel like someone is trying to exclude.


message 10: by Felix (new)

Felix | 3 comments Emma wrote: "Pam wrote: "Hmmm...

If I understand this correctly, we are upset that more people are proclaiming themselves feminists?

Or are we upset because finally companies are paying attention and giving ..."


feminism needs entry into any and every space possible. once thats been accomplished, its the responsibility of the armchair-feminists to translate feminism to the people who've embraced only a "trendy" feminism. something aligned.


message 11: by Emily (new)

Emily Martino | 2 comments I feel like “trendy” feminists should be welcomed. For those of you who are more knowledgeable on the subject, use that knowledge to teach others rather than disregard their support. I would like to think of myself as a feminist, but I also know that I do not completely understand what it means to take that position. All I do know is that i believe in equal rights for women. But that is part of the reason I joined this group, I want to learn!


message 12: by Colleen E (last edited Aug 20, 2018 07:21PM) (new)

Colleen E (colleenchi-girlakacolleensnapped) | 40 comments Emily wrote: "I feel like “trendy” feminists should be welcomed. For those of you who are more knowledgeable on the subject, use that knowledge to teach others rather than disregard their support. I would like t..."

I agree, Emily. As someone who grew up in the 1970's and witnessed feminism as a live movement, I've been thrilled the past couple of years to see more women, and men, embrace it and put themselves out there. It doesn't matter to me if you're discussing in book clubs, online forums, in coffee houses, writing articles, helping others at home and in the workplace, forming and attending marches, meeting in groups, donating to important causes, or posting on IG or tweeting. Obviously some are critical and important, while others are less so, but let's all do what we can. Hopefully, young will be mentored by older, but all of us can be mentored.


message 13: by Leslye (new)

Leslye (lesmargott) | 5 comments It is certainly great that more and more people consider themselves feminists, and that the movement is increasingly known.

But I think the negative thing about feminism being fashionable is that now there are so many voices that represent it that the sense has been lost. At least here in South America there is no clear notion of what feminism is and what it is that you want to achieve. Many have the concept that is the same as machismo but the other way around, even girls who consider themselves feminists think that. Or that you can not be feminists if you do not attack patriarchy aggressively.

If we are going to show part of the movement, the minimum is to be informed and to be clear about what we are being part of.

With some university colleagues we have a blog and a podcast, where we approach different themes of feminism. When we have to talk to people on the street, few know what we are referring to. Many of our fellow men think that they could never be feminists for the reason of finding a girl sexy. So what is this new wave of feminism doing wrong, so that people get confused and think that by finding a sexy girl they can not be part of the movement?

the trendy feminists must obviously be respected, but as in everything, you must be informed and know what message we are delivering.

Sorry for my bad translation into english


message 14: by Felix (new)

Felix | 3 comments I think what needs to happen first is a criterion of what feminism is or isn’t must be defined by feminists to then start dialoguing about who decides what feminism allows. It’s a natural phenomenon when compared to others that when politicized it can immensely impact anything it sets its focus on. Instead of going through moments of confusion trying to recollect ourselves everytime it happens, perhaps a list of FAQs and responses can help members and further provide some clarity on what attracts trendies to feminism.
.
Without referencing texts and thinking of how I would explain feminism to grade school scholars:

1. Is not exclusive according to essentials of what a woman or a man is although clear and defining roles are permitted in organizing and leadership.
2. Collectively centers around women, women’s rights/issues/accomplishments/narratives
3. Holistic development of women is an overall goal
4. Everything listed might give the impression of favoring women with time and resources and this is part of the stigma surrounding criticism of feminism
5. Narrowing down on language used by the state/a governing body is overwhelmingly not how women define themselves daily and that is part of the reason behind mainstreaming feminism to trendies

c/s


message 15: by Sascha (new)

Sascha | 391 comments Lex wrote: "At least here in South America there is no clear notion of what feminism is and what it is that you want to achieve. Many have the concept that is the same as machismo but the other way around, even girls who consider themselves feminists think that. Or that you can not be feminists if you do not attack patriarchy aggressively."

I think that the misconceptions of what feminism is about doesn't necessarily mean that feminists are doing something wrong. It could also mean that the broader society doesn't really listen to feminists.

I think it's not so hard to understand that this struggle is about equal rights, not just on paper but also in our daily life. And it's about autonomy, the right of women to take their lives into their own hands. The question is: where do those misconceptions about feminism come from? Why do some people think feminism is about turning oppression on men?

I think it's because many people don't really listen to what feminists are saying and they are also not caring about women's liberation. And there is also a strong antifeminist talk in society. "Men's rights activists" are defending patriarchy, oppression and even violence against women and they are distorting the ideas and spreading lies about feminism. And I think we should not underestimate the impact of such antifeminist, misogynist talk in society.


message 16: by Elisa (new)

Elisa (elisabardoni) | 2 comments Does any of you have experience of women spreading thoughts of hate towards men, and actually promoting inequality the other way round? For example, sometimes I read Facebook comments pointing out that "men are all the same" (in a negative connotation), that they are all bad -to say the least- etc. I assume that a comment is often written light-heartedly and without thinking too much about the consequences, but it might also be the representation of the mentality behind the comment.
And unfortunately people writing these kind of things are labeled as feminists by ignorant and misinformed people, causing a general misunderstanding, such as what happens when people assume that a small fraction of a group represents the whole group.

So I do believe that "trendy" feminism can do good, it could represent for many people getting near the community a start towards learning and discovering and generally getting a better idea of what feminism really is, giving them the chance to understand that it's about equal rights, and not about turning the oppression to men. It can be a great opportunity for the movement to be heard and listened to.


message 17: by James (last edited Oct 04, 2018 07:19PM) (new)

James Corprew Elisa wrote: "Does any of you have experience of women spreading thoughts of hate towards men, and actually promoting inequality the other way round? For example, sometimes I read Facebook comments pointing out that "men are all the same" (in a negative connotation), that they are all bad -to say the least- etc. I assume that a comment is often written light-heartedly and without thinking too much about the consequences, but it might also be the representation of the mentality behind the comment.
And unfortunately people writing these kind of things are labeled as feminists by ignorant and misinformed people, causing a general misunderstanding, such as what happens when people assume that a small fraction of a group represents the whole group. "


I dont think its that simple, in fact ive seen those type of comments said in this very book club. However, whether you or any other feminist believe such behavior is actually feminism is up to you BUT those who say such things do believe they are feminists despite how you feel about them.

Whether you want to call it some kind of radical feminism or whatever those who push the anti-male rhetoric most certainly consider themselves feminists, even sometimes feeling that feminism has strayed from its initial purpose by trying to include men. Its hard to say exactly what percentage of feminists believe in male oppression, etc but having seen some feminists say one thing in front of me and then say other things to other groups of feminists can lead one to believe the issue is bigger than people realize.

Whats more troubling is that ive noticed that when it comes to women who are pushing the anti-male agenda most feminists dont even try to call it out, instead opting to turn their cheek as not to offend other feminists with more extreme views. They claim they dont condone it but they also have no problem sharing the feminist umbrella with them because in the end they want solidarity within the feminist movement even if other feminist groups are sending a different message altogether.

Unfortunately extreme or radical feminism is the dirty little secret that the movement chooses not to address or simply dismisses as not existing which is too bad.


message 18: by Taylor (new)

Taylor Miller | 9 comments To expand on this a bit, when something becomes a trend, it is easy to proclaim yourself part of a trend (and even believe you are!) but not actually support that trend.

For instance, Jenna Birch's book "The Love Gap" discusses studies that show that men claim they want an intelligent, confident woman but when push comes to shove, they back down from that desire and actually feel intimidated by such a woman.

It is interesting and in my opinion, is caused by the fact that feminism is displayed in a "you're all in or you suck" way. So of course, people are going to claim they're feminists but many of their decisions in life will not be influenced by their claim that they are feminists (in this example, choosing to date instead a woman who does not have an ambitious career path/is more home and family oriented so there is no competition in the relationships for status of bread winner or who makes most income)


message 19: by James (new)

James Corprew " So of course, people are going to claim they're feminists but many of their decisions in life will not be influenced by their claim that they are feminists (in this example, choosing to date instead a woman who does not have an ambitious career path/is more home and family oriented so there is no competition in the relationships for status of bread winner or who makes most income) "

Well, neither my wife or myself label ourselves as feminists but she certainly is the bread winner as well as the most ambitious of us both (she is currently out on a ship being the first female cable splicer for her company). But when i mentioned feminists proclaiming to be feminists despite their radical beliefs i was referencing other women, not men.

There are a lot of women who have radical beliefs and tell you they are feminists. While im sure there are examples such as the one you provided that doesnt seem to be the norm of scenarios i come across or see online and in public.


message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

@James: Are you saying that some people side with radical Feminism because for now it serves their own purposes?


message 21: by James (last edited Oct 17, 2018 06:19AM) (new)

James Corprew "Are you saying that some people side with radical Feminism because for now it serves their own purposes? "

Well, we have talked in this group before about the different feminist approaches, the different types of feminism that exist in the movement itself. I have seen some people who believe in one type of feminism say they will not speak out about radical feminism (despite not agreeing with it) because despite the differences they are fighting for the same thing.

So yes, i think some people in the movement will not rock the boat or call out radical feminism because they dont want to lose an ally despite their varied approach.

But, what i was addressing was the initial comments made about who or who isnt a feminist because of their approach. If a woman uses anti-male rhetoric as a method to get her message quite possibly believes she is a feminist despite what another feminist (who doesnt follow the same logic) may think defines what a feminist is. You have some who feel that men should be included and that anti-male rhetoric is not feminism while others feel that men should be excluded, etc.

But yes Florian, i do think that feminists in general will accept any kind of feminism under their umbrella no matter if the message sent is a negative one. At least from what i have observed from the movement thus far.

I dont think anyone can come out and say "Well, this isnt feminism" vs this because for every individual feminism can mean something totally different from the other. I dont think its easy for someone to proclaim that "this isnt feminism" just because their belief or approach is different. I hope this clears up what im trying to say.


message 22: by Taylor (new)

Taylor Miller | 9 comments James wrote: "" So of course, people are going to claim they're feminists but many of their decisions in life will not be influenced by their claim that they are feminists (in this example, choosing to date inst..."

I think I am more referencing the fact that I agree with feminism being a trendy hot topic right now and lots of people are jumping on the band wagon without even knowing what the wagon is made of.

We see plenty of cultural and social trends that affect everything from our music (Girl Rawr), politics (Hilary Clinton), media (#metoo), etc. Feminism is a huge trend right now, more than it ever was which is good and bad. It creates accessibility but it also creates a "feminism lite" where it is easy for anyone to say "I am a feminist/believe in feminism because I think men and women should be equal".

That's all fine and dandy but not everyone understands the implications nor do they take time to think about what feminism really means.


message 23: by Pam (new)

Pam | 1080 comments Mod
Taylor wrote: "That's all fine and dandy but not everyone understands the implications nor do they take time to think about what feminism really mean..."

What does feminism really mean?


message 24: by James (new)

James Corprew Taylor wrote: "James wrote: "" So of course, people are going to claim they're feminists but many of their decisions in life will not be influenced by their claim that they are feminists (in this example, choosin..."

I think you will have that with any movement though, even stuff like Black Lives Matter has its share of trendiness. I dont think it can be avoided one way or the other. I read an article the other day where Rose McGowan thinks that even Time's Up is a trend, etc. So i guess as a feminist you have to weigh whether or not you can accept trendiness in order to get awareness.


message 25: by [deleted user] (new)

Movement that aspires to women and men equality.
The meaning is quite simple, the implications may not be that simple but let's be honest, there are not that difficult to understand. It is not talking about creating something new, some kind of innovation, it's only telling to balance things out.

I do not want to be tough but it does not really require too much of an effort to understand the aspirations of this movememt. Then people may decide to agree or disagree with women/men equality. Misogynist, sexist people or persons who sometimes have such behaviour perfectly understand the concept of Feminism. They just do not want it to be applied. The understanding of the movement has never been the hard task.

Maybe I wrong.


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