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On the God of the Christians: (and on one or two others)
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On the God of the Christians > A God Who Has Said Everything

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message 1: by John (new)

John Seymour | 1836 comments Mod
What is Brague suggesting when he says God has nothing more to say?


Manuel Alfonseca | 1420 comments Mod
Because He said everything he had to say through the Incarnation. In considering the Incarnation the most important event in history and the drastic difference between Christianity on the one side, and Judaism and Islam on the other, Brague coincides with Christopher Dawson. Therefore I am quite surprised that he does not cite Dawson even once in the whole book.


message 3: by Jill (new)

Jill A. | 657 comments This is a long chapter with many points I find striking. I don't think I've ever heard John of the Cross cited at such length in theological explanation (as opposed to mystical experience/description).

I find it odd that he agrees with modernism that God has nothing more to say, though of course his reason is entirely different. The things that can be determined by scientific observation alone are trivial; the poignant question is whether we should do something just because we can.

Because of the Incarnation and the ongoing indwelling of the Holy Spirit, I think God is more "familiar" today than ever before. Yes, Jesus is all God has to say, but we aren't left on our own to work out what He means in our day-to-day lives.

I love his explanation of Jesus' saying about seeking and finding, not "He who seeks will find," but "finds" because we are already immersed in it/Him.

Salvation is that we not only are tasked with but are able to work out the rest of what must be said, more important, what must be done in love.

I love his commentary on the burning question whether a given religion encourages violence. The answer is to be sought in how the God of that religion approaches men, whether he coerces or insists on their freedom.

Fascinating that he explains Providence in terms of subsidiarity, God won't do for us what we can do for ourselves, lets us choose the ways and means that will allow us to attain the good he desires and makes possible for us.


Mariangel | 518 comments A Jewish colleague told me a few months ago that once he was discussing with a friend why God used to reveal himself in the past and now He never does. I answered him that He has nothing else to reveal after He has showed us Himself in our own form, and it sure made him think.


Manuel Alfonseca | 1420 comments Mod
Jill wrote: "Fascinating that he explains Providence in terms of subsidiarity, God won't do for us what we can do for ourselves..."

A few years ago, I wrote a paper about Divine Action following the same idea. If you are interested, you can find it here:
http://arantxa.ii.uam.es/~alfonsec/do...


message 6: by Manuel (last edited Aug 08, 2018 12:24AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Manuel Alfonseca | 1420 comments Mod
Jill wrote: "I don't think I've ever heard John of the Cross cited at such length in theological explanation (as opposed to mystical experience/description)"

I think this is a good point to nominate one book by St. John of the Cross in the club :-)


Fonch | 1160 comments I do not know but it is possible that the idea o Remi Brague was the answer that Barbara Stamwyck said to Gary Cooper in Joe Doe. Gary Cooper must not sacrifice, because Jesus did for him 2000 years ago. It is posible that it was a God`s plan based in the free fate the signal is given and now he trusted in every human in particular. And we have not more signs until the end of the time. There are not signs but there are advertisements as the author says.


Manuel Alfonseca | 1420 comments Mod
We must be careful, in this chapter, not to confuse two different things: John of the Cross and Rémi Brague say that God is now silent, as after Christ's death and resurrection He has nothing else to say. But that does not mean that He no longer acts in the world. We are now forbidden to ask God for new revelations. But we are not forbidden to ask God for other things, in prayer.


Fonch | 1160 comments Manuel wrote: "We must be careful, in this chapter, not to confuse two different things: John of the Cross and Rémi Brague say that God is now silent, as after Christ's death and resurrection He has nothing else ..."
Over the topic of Silent it is very interesting the Endo`s novel Silence.


message 10: by John (new)

John Seymour | 1836 comments Mod
Fonch wrote: "Manuel wrote: "We must be careful, in this chapter, not to confuse two different things: John of the Cross and Rémi Brague say that God is now silent, as after Christ's death and resurrection He ha..."

I kept thinking the same thing during this chapter.


message 11: by John (new)

John Seymour | 1836 comments Mod
Manuel wrote: "We must be careful, in this chapter, not to confuse two different things: John of the Cross and Rémi Brague say that God is now silent, as after Christ's death and resurrection He has nothing else ..."

I thought that Brague's injunction not to ask for further revelation was very interesting. But I am troubled by his insistence that God has been silent, as an absolute. Our reading on Sts Catharine and Faustina would seem to belie that. No more public revelation, sure. But I read Brague as making a much broader point.


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